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Dan-e
08-17-2009, 06:15 AM
I would like to get anyones's input on a Raven Guard list i am thinking about using for small 1000 point games.


HQ
Captain Shrike
Chaplain (Jump Pack)

Elite
Ironclad Dreadnought (Ironclad Assault Launchers, Hunter Killer Missiles x2)
Transport: Drop Pod

Troops
Scout Squad ( 3 Snipers, 1 Missle Launcher, Camo Cloaks)
w/Telion

Scout Squad ( 4 Snipers, 1 Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks)

Fast
Landspeeder Storm

Vanguard Veteran Squad (Jump Packs, Melta Bombs x2, Stg. w/Lightning Claw)



Since i haven't yet played this list yet, i can't really say how well it will work but at 1000 points i think i have a good range of flexibility in the list to deal with armor and hordes, at least 1000 points worth of either.

The assumed tactic for this list are as follows.
Use Shrike to infiltrate with the Vanguard Veteran Squad into a spot to assault enemy units that are exposed or isolated that would be able to reach the scouts with ranged fire or any enemy assault unit not in a transport. Along with a Chaplin on Jump Pack, i believe my ability to re roll hits and wounds will be very deadly.
(i know the rules arguments against infiltration with Shrike and a none infiltrate unit, but i subscribe to the belief that it is legal to do and so do the people i play with, so assume it is legal if you chose to post, don't want this to be railroaded into that)

Deep Striking the Ironclad into the enemy formation just seems like fun and a good way to distract an army that can really move and get at my scouts. with 13 F/S armor i figured it would be hard to kill if i can keep his back to me and not to them. In the case of fast skimmers or jetbikes, i could even use my Vanguards if i have to, stacking them up on his rear to give him a cover save. The over whelming fire power of two Hunter Killers Missiles and Melta gun first turn will surely make sure i destroy any Tanks or Transports that i feel need to go, and in the case of Transports it would give my Vanguard the option to assault something ASAP.
Also, Deep Striking Dreadnoughts follows the army background tactics, so i want to do it. Anything that would let me keep the army close to Canon i like.

The Heavy use of Scouts is based on three facts, its cheap, its in line with the chapters background, and it has great range and the chance of pinning. I think this is important to target any stray units that have the option of shooting my Vanguard or Ironclad because of the chance to pinned, leaving the at the mercy of my assault units.
The combined Scout and Infiltration options gives them good chance to really get into a spot to fire, leaving the Landspeeder Storm as an evacuation and extra fire platform. Also, in case i feel i need to, Loading up scouts to claim last turn objectives or just flying her in alone to contest anything i feel will swing the points into my favor.

I think the heavy use of Missiles from scouts and the Ironclads awesome abilities & strengths will let me handle a lot of different army types at such low point level, but again i haven't had a chance to play or test so if anyone have any thoughts. i would love to hear them before i spend money on buying this list.


Side Note:
A possible 1.5k upgrade of this list would be a squad of Vanguards all with Lightning claws, and leaving the original Vanguard from the short list to Deep strike. Loading out anything and everything with Location beacon to allow them to preform their special option to assault after deep striking by making sure they don't scatter. An extra Scout squad to ride permanently in the Land speeder with Shotguns to give the thing extra Punch at short range plus the option to score objectives. Upgrade the weapon on it to a Multi-melta upgrade or assault cannon depending on the force i am facing. I don't see this army going over 1.5k and still being valid except in certain cases.

PS, thanks BoLS for having those Decal sheets for Raven Guard, i wasn't even going to make this army until i saw you had those as i wanted to do the army right or not at all.

Chumbalaya
08-17-2009, 07:28 AM
Vanguard are trash, sorry. Too pricey for a one trick pony that's not even guaranteed to work and they die as readily as normal marines.

Assault Squad or Assault Terminators would serve you better. Infiltrate up with Shrike and bring the hurt. Fleet TH/SS Termies in somebody's face turn 1 is high-larious!

Telion is unnecessary at this level, focus on getting more scouts. 1 objective holder unit, 1 aggro unit to go with Shrike's unit and the Dread. LSS can go.

Dan-e
08-17-2009, 08:31 AM
Vanguard > Termies is a Fluff choice really as they are closer to the concept of Shrike's Wing. I may choose Assault Squad > Vanguard if i felt that it would do the trick, which it might. I am personally just going to buy Assault Troops and call them Vanguard or Assault, At first i am going to try them as Vanguard for the pure often of getting better upgrades.

In place of Telion, i can get 3 more scouts. I think i would rather have the option for shooting a missile at BS 6 then three more Sniper fire at BS3. Even if i didn't use his option to give his BS6 to another model, i would still have 2 shots at BS6 instead of 3 that are BS3. I also think that his option of assigning his wounds is good at the low level as i can pick off special weapons or sergeant like characters. He also has Acute Senses which is nice for games with night fight.

The LSS could be dropped i agree but i wanted to try to have some kind of transport for the scouts if i needed to move them around fast. If i did drop it i would most likely gear the Vanguard out with more Lightning Claws, dropping the 2 melta Bombs and getting the other 4 vanguard a lightning claw. The same goes for Telion if i was to drop him.

Chumbalaya
08-17-2009, 05:13 PM
Vanguard have lots of upgrade options, but they pay through the nose for their jump packs (and if you add Shrike they can't use their only special rule, crappy as it is) and they will die just as easily as normal marines unless you strap on storm shields, then you may as well field Terminators. Assault Squads don't hit hard enough to stop nasty stuff like Seer Councils, Biker Nobs, and MCs.

Telion is a good pick, but not in such a small squad. 5 men = torrenting Telion and/or the ML out easily.

LSS carrying around shooty scouts? Bad idea. 5 men aren't worth doing anything with anyway. A deep striking normal speeder or two (MM/HF since you need help busting tanks) would fit in better.

Kaar
08-17-2009, 06:42 PM
I'm afraid I have to agree with Chumbalaya here on the Vanguard squads.

But first off, may I say welcome to the brotherhood of Corax! I myself run a Raven Guard successor chapter, to great hilarity and fun. Nothing like having a spectator at the local GW see your table with 2 or three Assaults going down, asking 'what turn?', and you answering with a grin 'Bottom of 1'. The fluff of your current list, with lots of scouts and assault, is bang on.

In 1000 points though, you have way too much invested in Vanguard. I would highly recommend switching out these unfortunately massively overpriced vets for an Assault Squad with a fisted sarge. The point savings should get you at least a few more marines, and thus more wounds to allocate before you have to worry about losing your characters to any shooting you get stuck taking.

Also, in 1000 points, you're very light on scoring units. In that size of a game, your opponet will likely have more than enough men around capable of killing off 10 scouts, even with their cloaks. Your planned infiltrations will potentially put you that much closer to him, and even with Telion, you can only kill so many before his assault troops are upon you. The Storm is a good potential exit strategy, but I think it would be more suited to carrying CC scouts, to make the most of its Cerberus launcher.

Anyways, just some thoughts. Nevermore!

Levitas
08-17-2009, 08:28 PM
I have 3.5K of RG and have played them for over a year. Great army to mess around with.

I have to agree with the other guys. If you want some top RG advice and lists then check out our home at :

www.sonsofcorax.freeforums.org

I dont run shrike unless i hit 1500 or 1750. I dont run Vanguard unless I know I am facing Deathwing and want ti infiltrate and eat up 2 squads petty fast. Other than that I leave them at home.

But Shrike does give RG that flavour. So if you must take him then give him the full 10 man assault squad and throw in a sgt with thunder hammer. This combo is cheap and nasty:D. Then throw shrike at squads, most times he'll take out at least 4 or 5 while the TH sgt whacks HQs. Shrike is no hero to battle tough HQs, leave that to Lysander. But Shrike will 1st turn smart bomb an important enemy squad, like devs, suits and the like.

Fleeting TH/SS termies are tons of fun. Specially coming out an LRC. But we are talking 1k here so no help.

2 strong 10 man assault squads will help you maximise fleet. backed up by cheap tacs in RHINOS. Ignore the fluffy drop pod crap - its a ticket to loosing fast. Everything must move, as your assaults will move lightning fast. You wont hit any harder so use speed as your primary weapon, and control the assaults. @ attack biks or two typhoons are nice support.

But remember Shrike = fleet =speed (not power)

have fun!! I do :)

Mindless-Focus
08-17-2009, 08:55 PM
in my opinion, i would drop the chap in such a small game as well as the LSS and the Ironclad. While i really like the Ironclad, i like it better in larger games. Get you some fleeting Assualt Termies and maybe even a regular tactical squad with MM/F combo with maybe a PF. In such a small squad, i dont think tellion is worth it. Go with more scouts. a ten man Sniper squad with ML and Tellion is a beast. And no to the Vanguards. I have dusted them as easily as regular ones. a van squad is too expensive for their output. just my $0.02...

Bikeninja
08-17-2009, 10:00 PM
I use a 5 man vanguard squad with LC's, 1 PF, Storm Shields and jumppacks. They have held their own against everything I have put them against except the Nightbringer. 320pts is super steep but they pack a mean punch and tend to attract alot of shooting which has allowed me to do other things.

I go for character units. Not ratios to cost and effectiveness stuff. But that is just me.