Codex: Tau Empire 5th Edition....

[Andrew283]

I'm bored of the current rumour circulation and it's lack of my little fish people, so here we go. What would you like to see changed, added or all out removed from the current dex?

I can't comment at the momment as I have been spending my time (last few months) playtesting my Salamander's and Hive Fleet Behemoth Splinter Fleet armies.

[SombreBrotherhood]

Increase the size of battlesuit squads to 5, clean up the rules for firing markerlights (mainly make them all networked and have their firing be independent and prior to their attached squad's firing), fearless and increased drone types, maybe squadron rules for grav tanks. The list goes on, but those may be the most realistic things to hope for.

[fuzzbuket]

make fire warriors cheaper, more tanks and useful ethereals. oh an hit and run FOR ALL UNITS or smoke -fallback grenades,

OR shooting into combat and anti DS

when i play againt my mate who playes tauvs my ba its a "NO DS unless drop pods" and it balances the game tremendously :D

[DarkLink]

I can see hit and run for suits, but not Firewarriors. They're slow and clumsy in close combat, how are they supposed to run away from someone faster, stronger and more skilled than they are? Suits, at least, can literally fly away from combat.

I'd personally like to see drones with special weapons. It's be interesting if you could stick a few fusion guns or flamers in a drone squadron and deepstrike it onto something.

[SonicPara]

Keep the Devilfish the same amount of points but make it fast. They could also make Hammerheads fast but increase the cost of the Railgun to balance it. I really think that Firewarriors should be BS4 or markerlights should be less costly to take in small amounts. Maybe attach a markerlight drone to a 12 man Firewarrior squad to give them the chance at being BS4.

Piranhas really need to be improved too. As it stands, Tau don't have any viable Fast Attack options.

[Dr. Doctor]

-Make XV9's a codex option thy look cool and they offer a FA option for Tau, a slot that's not often used.

-Offer a low ranking ethereal as an elites or HQ choice, think Space Marine Chaplain but instead of re-roll to hit in close combat its re-roll to hit in shooting.

-Change Price of Failure so that if a unit passes the LD test they have Relentless instead of Preferred Enemy.

-Kroot Carnivores with a built in 6+ save. Or Kroot marksmen (markskroot?) that could act as snipers

-Either make Devilfish act as fast vehicles or offer an upgrade that allows them to be fast.

- A Kroot shaper or Vespid named character.

-Give the Devilfish the option to fire off a missile barrage that has a limited range and does not require markerlight shots to use (think DOW Dark Crusade Skyray)

- Pathfinder Jetbikes could be cool

[HsojVvad]

I would like to see more slave races for Tau. What they are not slaves? What else would you call them then? :p

[Chuck777]

Lower the points-cost for everything across the board.

Let the Battle Suit groups take more suits or give them cooler big guns or make them more survivable (or all three :D ) .

Kroot should have a base save and the stealth special rule.

Make Markerlights more common and cheaper.

More skimmers and vehicles (maybe even a Battle Suit carrier :D )

Add in the Demiurg, the Tarellians and the Gue'Vesa (Humans that have sword allegiance to the Greater Good). :)

[BuFFo]

Make the army BS 4.

Done.

[Chuck777]

Make the army BS 4.

Done.

I've suggested that before and non-tau players scream to the high heaven about how 'broken' and 'unfair' that would be... >.> The sad thing is GW listens to those kinds of people...

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

I bet it was all the SM players complaining then...

Let see though i dont play them, just paint them for a mate, id suggest NO to jetbikes, there not Eldar.
Give them a Elite Etheral as mentioned.
A new for of transport, dont need more tanks than they already have.
Maybe off the Hammerhead with some form of anti-infantry main weapon instead.
As mentioned a new inferior race would work well.....maybe thats what happened to the squats they got enslaved by the Tau.

Other than that id somehow make Kroot more useful than meat sheilds.

[plasticaddict]

One type of close combat Tau unit: suits w/power weapon options and hit and run, change the Kroot rifle to an assault weapon and/or give them Fleet and the Shaper gets a power weapon option, special weapon drones that canattach to Fire warrior teams, Fearless drone squadrons and unit upgrade drones do not count for casualty checks, GIVE US SHAS'LA KAIS (had to shout it out) as an IC or a unit upgrade that gives his unit prefered enemy/rerolls to hit or something equally useful and cool.

[Duke]

The whole thing would be solved by giving the army Gundam suits instead of XV-??? Suits.

Seriously though, I don't want to see tau with fast skimmer tanks, then everyone will be able to out maneuver Eldar (Imagine the creep Eldar would get when the time comes). I like that the tau have non fast skimmers, but make them cheaper.

I also think that though it may be cool, the markerlight dynamic is a little out of touch with the current system. I could see markerlights being more like "Markerlights +35 points, this squad now counts as BS 4"

I like the hit and run on the suits, that would be cool... If they could survive a round of combat!

Also, since Guard got Valks, Tyranids got Trygons, Wolves got...Wolves, and Blood Angels got Storm Ravens what would tau get?

Also, could you imagine tau units with the ability to split fire like longfangs? holy crap.

Duke

[Christian]

The things I would like to see in the new codex would be:

BS 4 for Fire Warriors: They have the best weapons but really don't know how to shoot with them.

Cheaper Battlesuits and if this doesn't work cheaper Battlesuit upgrades.

Last but no least Kroot should get a armour save and better rules for beeing in Forrests (Cover). I mean since the 5th edition, their Forrest special rule doesn't count anymore.

Christian

[DrLove42]

Tau fluff prohibits special weapons in Firewarrior teams. Talks about how seeker missiles are the only fire support available to Tau squads

As for Auxillaries (better word for slaves) :P they don't need any. Improve Kroot and Vespids maybe, but not any more.

Need something anti-deepstrike to prevent all the evil close combat dudes getting to us too quickly. Maybe something with rules like the Eldar Nightspinner...force difficult and dangerous terrain tests on a squad. The markerlights need to be easier and all be networked. And any weapon a drone (such as a markerlight) needs to be assault, not heavy.

[pgmason]

I disagree on BS4 for firewarriors, as Tau have poor vision and depth perception. Suits however should have BS4 as they can have the technology to compensate. Suits should have Hit and Run as well.

BS3 Firewarriors with free defensive grenades and a Shas'ui at 50 points for 6 and +8 points per model up to 12 would be great.

In a similar thread on Warseer some good suggestions were to make Pulse Rifles heavy 2 and pulse carbines assault 2 to further differentiate the two weapons' roles.

Some sort of drone with a failsafe detonator which allowed the unit attached to it to fall back would be an idea.

I also would prefer the tanks not to be fast, as that separates them from Eldar. Drone weapons should always count as defensive (or work like machine spirit weapons).

I play Tau and Imperium by the way, so hopefully have a reasonably non-biased view.

[Christian]

A Pulse Rifle Heavy 2? I think that is not suitable fur the Rifle. I mean the Rifle is something like a todays "Assault Rifle" while the Carbine is more like a shotgun. And its Ap is not strong enough, in my oppinion, so that the Rifle should be counted as a Heavy Weapon.

[Andrew283]

Some of these are good ideas. The reason asked is because, like the Nid's, the Tau have unlimited potential for GW's boffins to go crazy. A S10 AP1 Lance weapon....why not. I don't think BS4 should be given to the FW but instead it should be given to Shas'ui, Shas'vre etc.

[DrLove42]

The carbine is actually a underslung grenade launcher not a shotgun :P

And maybe give the pulse rifle the choice of Heavy 2 (long range) and Assault 1 (close range). And give the carbine Assault 2 (close mid range)

The Tau are a very shooty army. Look at what GW did with the last dedicated army (Blood Angels being very assaulty). Give them a tank that auto shoots at anything and everything that deepstrikes that turn. A Tau version of a deathwind drop pod that comes down and shoots...a lot.

[energongoodie]

I'd like a special character worth taking. I think the Tau have always been let down by the designers in this area.
I've never understood why a shooty armies special characters should have a different focus to the rest of the army. In the first codex they had an ethereal that was better in 'close combat'. He was pointless. Commander farsight is a nice idea but his deal was that he was a bit better in 'close combat'. Why was there not a tooled up fire warrior guy or better battlesuit with big guns guy. In the latest codex, I don't get the space pope fella and his 'close combat' type guards, farsight isn't great, and shadowsun is a nice model and can do a bit of damage but she is out on her own and doesn't last long if she is in the thick of it with her short range guns.
They are a shooting army and should have a special character with the biggest gun in the game.
I want a super, mega, hyper battlesuit. I want a Fire warrior sniper guy. If they want to keep on with this close combaty focus within a shooty army then I would like samurai warrior fire warriors with light weight suits and jacked up on combat drugs.

[artemi]

I think a points drop across the board should be in order.

The Kroot need to have their ability tweaked to apply to ALL Cover, not just forests. Maybe they could have the Shaper give them a +1 Cover bonus, perhaps. Maybe give them Fleet or Feel No Pain or something once they eat something? That could be a really fluffy change.

While I like the idea of the Pulse Rifle getting Heavy 2, thats not going to happen due to that being their main troop gun, which seems to be mostly Rapid Fire. Maybe give them a squad leader upgrade that gives them +1 shots, or something. Could also see the Pulse Carbine be Assault 1, Small Blast.

Markerlights need re-worked. The idea is sound, but it's really book-keepy, which is a fine idea but doesn't seem to keep the 'simpler, faster play' feel of 5th. I honestly am not sure how I would change them, though. Maybe make the abilities per squad, and not per individual weapon.

Vespids need... something. Maybe make them able to better Deep Strike, like Divine Intervention but with shooting, or something?

[Lux]

Markerlights need re-worked. The idea is sound, but it's really book-keepy, which is a fine idea but doesn't seem to keep the 'simpler, faster play' feel of 5th. I honestly am not sure how I would change them, though. Maybe make the abilities per squad, and not per individual weapon.


How about something along the lines of the SoB's faith point system- applying so long as the contributing units are on the field? Each squad with a marker light adds 1 to the pool. A drone adds 2. Pathfinders with markerlights add 1 per guy. A player would have a pool of marker lights that he/she could choose how to spend each turn. As things with markers die the pool decreases. You'd only need 1-2 dice to track it all.

For their points, Kroot probably ought to have fleet, assault 2 guns, and 2 attacks base.

Vespid need an 18" range on those guns. By the time they can shoot now, they're getting assaulted. With the amount of cover nowadays, Assault 2 wouldn't be uncalled for either.

No fast vehicles. That would make the Tau simply a shooty eldar force. Instead, drop the points on the vehicles.

Drop the points on firewarriors to maybe 7-8pts per guy.
Make suits BS4.
Either give the Skyrays more ammo or simply give them ROF 3 or ROF 4.

If you want a CC special character, why not a Kroot?

As for new units, I could see kroot knarlock riders being added in fast attack, with a great knarlock in the heavy support list.

Lux

[HsojVvad]

You want BS 4 for Fire Warriors go play SM then. Why would a Tau Fire Warrior be geneticaly enhanced? Then they would be called Space Marines then. Is that what you want?

I always thoguht a Fire Warrior would be the IG equivilent. I would say their Battlesuits be BS 4 or even 5 if they pay for enhanced targeting systems and it would cost alot if they did. But seeing how 5th edtion is simplier, less rules I do not see BS 5 but maybe BS 4.

[magnus]

I do feel that basic fire warriors should have BS 3 as they are still new to warfare (having only fought up to 4 years fluff wise). That being said.
- Shas Ui should all be BS 4.
- Do away with the Shas' El or make it so the two have different roles. An example could be that that a Shas' O is a HQ choice and a Shas' El would be a unit upgrade, like a Commissar.
- I would like to see Combat Ethereal's. Something that when taken as a secondary HQ they grant possibly a "null field" or another form of psychic defense. Also make it so the army doesn't just run at their death as they would be "prepared for the great beyond".
- A form of battle suite that is suited more towards combat. Forge World has a great example of this. WS4 with T5, W3, 2+ Armor and Feel No Pain as well as Vectored Retro Thrusters included. I think it was called the "Urban Suppression Unit". Pts heavy but still something that can provide a stop gape. New combat rules mean that Kroot do not count for CC anymore in my opinion.
- Greater use of drones. If CC will not be an even mediocre aspect for the tau, and to be fair should remain limited, then the use of large expendable units of drones should be encouraged. I do think drones should be remade in such a way that they would no longer count for mission objectives. Similar to spore mines. (would love to make use of 12 or so drones in a squad with 2s strait across the board, with possibly a 6+ save. Have them just fly around and be really annoying to my opponent and have him glare when I tell him they do not count for more then the effort to pick them up off the table)
- Tau Ships are known for their travel that does not involve warp. Close orbit rail gun shots (similar to the Orbital Bombardment of the Space Marines) would be appropriate but I would like to see something more to the idea of a "line of death" representing a beam shot a short distance but highly focused. No blast template but a unit lets say in its path take a random number of hits (representing guys moving around) and a vehicle would take a side armor hit (we will assume top armor is a bit higher then rear). Strength would be 10 ap 1 though, maybe less if you wanted a longer line. You would use a coin or something to place the shot "targeting" and then roll scatter (a hit will still scatter) and 2d6 - marker light strikes devoted to "ranging in". Beam then goes 8 inches in a direction nominated by the player, again possibly longer but weaker.
Just some random ideas : )

[AArdvark85]

I play Tau. I like that fact that is a finesse army that takes unique thinking and tactics to play successfully. I don’t think that Tau need a total redo. I had some of these ideas that I think would make them more durable in the 5th ed.:

- Make everything cheaper, troops, transports, Shadow Sun, Battle suits, Kroot Ox, Hammer Heads and special weapons.

- Make Pathfinders, Sniper Teams and Drones Squadrons troops.

- Drop the requirement for Pathfinders to take a transport.

- Give the Sky Ray different weapon options maybe a dual twin linked burst cannon model or give seeker missiles a frag option.

- Give Kroot 5+ armor save like Orks or IG. I really like Kroot the way they are the just need a small boost to make them playable in a roll other than fodder.

- Let Kroot tweak their special abilities with the purchase of a shaper. Nothing too crazy like one for furious charge, one for wings like jump troops, one with feel no pain and a 5+ save. This would be balanced by price of the shaper and the fact you could not take Kroot hounds.

- Keep the Rail guns just as they are.

- Some type of anti-psyker ability maybe a drone, Kroot shaper or Ethereal.

I think thats about it. None of those changes are earth shaking or game breaking in my opinion. It keeps Tau in the roll of a shoot and move army. Gives them a little bit of flexibility for close combat.

[isotope99]

Total Wishlisting:


Cheaper marker lights that help to combo attacks somehow rather than being just a unit upgrade as I like the idea of combining fire with different units being more deadly (any marked unit gets no cover save when any other Tau unit fires at it for example) this would help counter the massive number of cover saves available in 5th.

Markerlights free for stealth suits and pathfinders.

Great knarlocs (in plastic like the stegadon kit with some mounted gun options) that are cheap enough to act as flank guards/speed bumps to protect Tau from all the outflanking/deepstriking nastiness in fifth; tough but not too many attacks.

Skyrays to get a pie plate attack for cluster warheads on their missiles or an indirect seeker missile attack (small blast) on marked units.

Sniper drones to slow enemy units (count as moving through difficult terrain).

New plastic battlesuits that look more like the FW versions (Pack of three like killa kans with at least one plastic broadside upgrade). Upgrade to allow them to outflank.

At least one special character that allows battlesuits to be troops for a themed army.

Fire warriors to remain essentially unchanged but get the now standard points drop for core troops. Maybe also some more drone options, like a markerlight drone.

Vehicles to mostly stay not fast, except the Barracuda (an alternative new centrepiece model to the Greater Knarloc). Can fire its main gun when moving at any speed giving the Tau player incentive to keep it going at full speed but not close enough to get assaulted/melta-gunned. Sort of flyer-lite rules.

Agree with Artemi, Kroot abilities should not be specific to forests, as these are still not very common terrain in 40K. (maybe just replace with move through cover and stealth)

Make the Ion cannon something like Heavy 2, Blast to make it a more viable alternative to the railgun.

Make the ethereal have some sort of effect on reserves. Like the IG advisors (+1 your reserves, -1 to enemy reserves) and/or adding an extra D6 to deepstrike scatter for any units landing within 18" of him. I think they should remain non-combatants.

New Kits:

Plastic battlesuits (inc broadside option)
Barracuda and/or Great Knarloc
Plastic pathfinders (inc rail rifle options)

[Dr. Doctor]

- Some sort of wargear for stealthsuits that allows the unit to be able to deep strike like Swooping Hawks

-Alternate weapons for broadside suits like something akin to a Cyclone Missile Launcher or an Ion Cannon.

-Tau Fast skimmer/flyer thing I'm thinking Mini-Manta

[Diehard]

I put these in my blog a couple of weeks ago - http://thegamersworkbench.blogspot.com/2010/07/threat-range.html

Free defensive weaponry. Grenades are nice but for some reason Tau has to pay for them separately while everyone else gets them free. Even when taking carbines that have grenade launchers on them they still have to pay for regular ones. Talk about an early date with the foam box. They should be passing these things out like beads at Marti Gras.

New units that add protection. For a group that is supposed to rely on technology so much the Tau need to actually start doing it. They have stealth fields and disruption pods why not put them into a drone. A disruption drone that shields troops like a disruption pod does for ships. This was the intent of the shield drone but really it isn't doing its job. That 12" buffer no target zone would actually mean that they could get a shot off now and then.

Extended rapid fire range. This is a big one. Pulse Carbines need to be able to rapid fire at longer ranges. These guys are the best of the best shooters. They should be able to write 'For the Greater Good' across a space marines chest at any range like some '20s gangster with a Tommy gun. Ideally give them it at 18" instead of 12". The fluff behind it is pretty simple too, if the 'we can't change a light bulb without saying a 30 minute prayer' marines can have weapons that are smart enough to tell friend from foe why not let the Tau have tech that improves their shooting other than marker lights.

Mine layers or drop barriers. This is one that I just don't get. Tau are masters of the air on par with the Eldar. They have airdropped gun emplacements that while limited, make since. Why not expand on this and give them a drop minefield or barricade like a bastion defense walls. Both are perfect ways of not totally stopping a charge but taking some of the bite out of it.

Drone sacrifice. Give Them the option of sacrificing their drones and allow them to move d6 inches away. This is the classic war movie tactic and would fit the Tau better than standing there and getting punched in the face. They see that charge coming and setup a couple of drones as the first line so they can still return fire. The d6 distance doesn't put you way out of range but at least stops the assault and since it is a one time thing it allows you to hopefully avoid the inevitable.

[MightyOrang]

Idle thoughts ...

1. BS4 for the FW and XV8s

2. Power weapons for some - an ork nob with pfist equivalent for the Kroot, for example

3. Stingwings shooters go to 18" range, but become AP4

4. Devilfish @ 50pts each

5. Hammerheads in squadrons IF they dial it back a bit on the Rail Gun - drop them to S8 AP1 or something -- no squadrons of those terrors if they're still S10

6. Some sort of heavy close assualt suit -- like an XV88 but equipped with flamers and burst cannons and a S6 dread CCW

7. Ethereals - cut them out altogether.

8. Introduce a new race that's part of the collective with some psychic powers

9. Fix markerlights

10. Organic special weapons in the FW squads

11. Indirect fires artillery -- a basilisk / griffon equivalent - specialized munitions

12. Introduce a 'network' feature in the army -- something similar to synapse creatures -- when in range of select command suits / vehicles, then units like FW and XV8 suits would see their BS, I, and LD all go up (this would contravene my point 1)

13. Suit units of 5 max

14. Smart mines ... give the Tau player the ability to lay down a set area on the board, that could then shift 4" per turn or something

15. Keep disruption pods and flechette dischargers -- but boost their costs to 25 pts each

[Dr. Doctor]

- Fire Warriors have the ability to perform a Tactical Advance, during the movement phase the player may announce that he is performing a tactical advance, the fire warrior unit then is subject to the Slow and Purposeful USR.

Being able to do this would allow FWs to maintain constant volleys of pulse fire and keep with the fluff's description of the Tau being a mobile shooty army.


-Remove the mandatory Devilfish from the pathfinder entry and give them infiltrate instead.

- Have two settings for the Hammerhead Ion Cannon the S7 AP3 Heavy 3 setting for taking out heavy infantry and a S8 AP2 Heavy 1 Lance option for knocking down tanks.

-A drone that is equipped with a Land Speeder Storm style jamming beacon that can help take some of the sting of a massed deep strike assault.

-Rapid Fire on Pulse Rifles is 15" instead of 12"

-Kroot when lead by a Shaper may select a genetic adaptation for a set number of points per model (like say Eldar gene code that allows the Kroot to have +1 Initiative

[Connjurus]

Since they seem to be doing this more with the 5th edition codexes, I'd like to see the different characters "reworking" the armies.

Like for Farsight, keep the other things 0-1, but let a Farsight army take Battlesuit groups as troop choices, kinda like Dante and the Sanguinary Guard, or Ka'Sarro and Bikes. Also, please, for the love of god rework that Ork Fighter rule. :/ Also, while they're on Farsight, howabout some expanded fluff?

A kind of Kroot HQ choice would be nice, just for those that would like to do a themed Kroot Mercenary force.

Some of the Forgeworld models being updated to plastic and sold in bulk like they did with the Trygon would be nice - the Hazard Suit springs to mind.

I like the Markerlight, actually - the ability to reduce cover saves, or fire seeker missiles, or increase a squad's ballistic skill, is flavorful, makes sense, and is UNIQUE. Make it better, of course - it definitely needs to be updated - but I like the flavor of it.

Make Pirahna worth their points - I LOVE the fact that you can take five of them for one FA slot, but definitely update the point cost.

Also, please, better Skyray. :(

[BlindGunn]

I've been playing Tau since they were released. I still think they're fun but they could use some help.

- Generally: points reduction across the board
- Love to see AP3 for all Pulse weapons, but not a requirement
- Firewarriors: cheaper or BS 4 - not sure whether both are required. I think a special "Volley Fire as they get charged" rule is required to make them more survivable.
- I think the Pulse Rifle is fine.
- Carbine needs to change, there's no real reason to take it now. I was thinking Assault 3, 18" range - no points change
- Pathfinders: Drop requirement of Devilfish
- All Suits - All should be starting at BS4
- Tanks don't need to be Fast Skimmers. Points cut would be nice.
- Squadrons of Hammerheads would be nice.
- Markerlights - I don't have issue with the marker lights now. Networked would be nice.
- Sniper Drones: Get them out of Heavy choice and into a "limited" Troop Choice.

There are other rules issues I would like to see addressed, but it would require lots of playtesting to work out decent solutions. At this time of night - I'm not willing to try. I don't know if I'm coherient.

[energongoodie]

I was alone in the office yesterday so had a quick go at a light, close combat suit of armour.

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=636&d=1282295192

[Connjurus]

For my Japanese-themed Farsight army, I made the rules (could never find the right model...this was before Hordes) for Vibro Katana-wielding Firewarrior guys - I got the idea from the Kuritan DEST teams from the Battletech novels. Also, they wore two shoulder pads. xP

I only ever got around to painting a few of the models before I sold off my army, but the Firewarrior shoulder pads are PERFECT for painting Rising Suns on. xP

Also, Pirahna painted as Zeroes.

[mstingray]

Make the army BS 4.

Done.
I've suggested that before and non-tau players scream to the high heaven about how 'broken' and 'unfair' that would be... >.> The sad thing is GW listens to those kinds of people...

I am a tau player and I don't think they should be made BS4, but I do think markerlights should be much more powerful, BS5 instead of +1, -2 pinning test instead of just a pinning test etc, but not make results cumulative.

-I would like to see all the different weapon options on the hammerhead that the the imperial armour had
-I also would like to see the pulse carbine fit the fluff about the underslung grenade launcher otherwise keep it the same(pinning test at -1 for every unsaved wound caused or something).
-I would like to see point reductions on the devilfish and maybe a new transport (though not a drop pod or similar)
-Make specialised weapons better than imperium equivalent (plasma rifle assault 2, fusion gun rng 18" etc.)obviously with a higher cost.
-Make photon grenades standard on all firewarrior units (including pathfinders, drone spotter etc.)
-Tetras and the tx-42 pirahna variant.

[Porty1119]

I'd like to see more vehicles. Like someone had said, all new armies have gotten a big 'centerpiece' unit. Tau should probably get something flyer-lite, as mentioned before. I'd also like to see:

Drone-controlled grav tank. Kinda like a Hammerhead, but with only a single, hull mount weapon and BS2. Call it a Swordfish or something like that.

[DrLove42]

5. Hammerheads in squadrons IF they dial it back a bit on the Rail Gun - drop them to S8 AP1 or something -- no squadrons of those terrors if they're still S10


Leman Russes come in squadrons...and they have S10 guns (i think :P). And they're blast not single shot! And better armour. And lots of secondary weapons...



Idle thoughts ...

7. Ethereals - cut them out altogether.

8. Introduce a new race that's part of the collective with some psychic powers


Ethereals need to be made good. Not the current burden that they are. And Tau don't need physic powers...maybe something similar to "physic powers" but are actually weapon system skills. Physic defenses yes. But no physic powers. Maybe improve ethereals by giving them ability to resist powers (null field/hood type thing). This can be worked into the fluff as no Tau generates a signal in the warp, so no pyskers. But Ethereals are mysterious and unknown origins...

[lowdog]

Definitely some kind of power weapon option on the crisis suits.

[Lerra]

The number one thing that I want to see is reworked markerlights that flow better and are more fun to use. I'd like to see something like this:

Every squad leader has a markerlight. Markerlights are wargear, not weapons (and so you don't roll to hit, etc), but they apply an effect to the squad's shooting that phase. One effect is chosen from a list before shots are fired.


The Tau squad gains +1 BS.
If the Tau squad did not move in the movement phase, it may move a d6" after shooting.
The targeted enemy unit must re-roll passed cover saves from wounds caused by this unit.
The targeted enemy unit suffers -2 Ld for the remainder of the Tau shooting phase.
The Tau squad readies itself against assault. For the remainder of the game turn, this squad has the Hit and Run special rule. Enemies that assault this unit suffer -1 attack from the Tau's defensive photon grenades.

Perhaps it would be like IG orders where certain squad leaders only have access to certain effects. Special characters might have special markerlight options.

Honestly, I don't think the point costs should be decreased by much. It would be more fun and fit Tau better to have new toys and better tech than to have more bodies on the field. Tau isn't supposed to be a horde-ish army (unless you are running a lot of Kroot).

[henrythesecond]

1. BS4 for the FW and XV8s

2. Power weapons for some - an ork nob with pfist equivalent for the Kroot, for example

4. Devilfish @ 50pts each

5. Hammerheads in squadrons IF they dial it back a bit on the Rail Gun - drop them to S8 AP1 or something -- no squadrons of those terrors if they're still S10

6. Some sort of heavy close assualt suit -- like an XV88 but equipped with flamers and burst cannons and a S6 dread CCW

7. Ethereals - cut them out altogether.

9. Fix markerlights

11. Indirect fires artillery -- a basilisk / griffon equivalent - specialized munitions

13. Suit units of 5 max

15. Keep disruption pods and flechette dischargers -- but boost their costs to 25 pts each

Just thought I'd chip my 2p worth in about a few of these points...

I play regularly against a friend who favours Tau and I agree they are in need of a competitive upgrade.

I don't think BS4 is the way forward for FW. It doesn't seem to be right with fluff and it seems a little too powerful. I do like the 'Tactical Advance' idea suggested in a post on this thread, particularly if FW are reduced a smidgin in points cost.

A power weapon upgrade for squad leaders (FW, Kroot & Vespid) would be a fair addition.

I wouldn't have a problem with Hammerhead's being given the ability to deploy in Sqn's, even with a S10 Rail Gun. However, you would have to drop the ability for any of them to target a seperate unit. Can't have all the benefits without the drawbacks...

I'm not too sure a specific 'heavy close assault' suit is required. Just a tweaking of suit abilities (with appropriate points adjustment) would be enough. Got to keep in mind that if the Tau have access to offensive CC badass units, the army as a whole loses it's shooty focus very easily. But they do need to ability to defend themselves against assault heavy armies.

Agreed, Ethereals seem almost pointless to me in their current form. Giving them some psychic offence/defence would seem a perfect way of giving them a practical use and keeping with the fluff.

I really like the Markerlight mechanic and think it's one of the coolest things about Tau. It isn't that complicated to use and can be damned annoying when on the receiving end! I would suggest a points or unit distribution correction, but the basic mechanic is fine.

Not sure about this one. Again, Tau aren't Guard. I think the best way to solve this issue of long-range indirect fire support is probably to give Seeker missile a blast option. Either give a specific Seeker the ability to do either and increase the points, or make 2 different types of Seeker and they have to be bought accordingly.

This is a definite for me. I've lost count of the number of times the loss of 1 suit has meant morale check disasters to my friends units of battlesuits. There are considerations though, namely that 3 suits jumping out of cover and shooting before disappearing is one thing, but if that firepower is 5 suits, it's getting a little powerful and some armies don't have a lot in the way of stuff to deal with the suit dance.

Ha ha, got to agree with increasing points for disruption pods! In it's current form it's surely got to be the most points-effecient upgrade in any army! It's a bloody steal.

Anyhoop, as there's no official word on a Tau Codex (is there?), it's all just apple pie.

[BlindGunn]

Actually, just had a thought.

I want Aun' Shi (?sp?) back! I thought he was great!

Can't remember how many times my "Honour Guard" Fire Warriors with Aun' Shi gave the Black Templars a rude awakening. BT would see Tau and choose their -1 Init option and My +1 Init Fire Warriors would strike simultaniously! They were a great Tar Pit. Aun'Shi was good for a few marines too. Of all the Etherals, he was at least usable...:cool:

[fuzzbuket]

actuall i was playing a 2(1000pts) vs 1 (2000+pts) match and due to no tau left (- drones kroot and suits) i charged the ethereal, and killed a terminator ANDbought some time thn charged my suits (which arnt CC slouches)

just a random rant

[lowdog]

Not sure how Broadsides work now, but I think they should come standard with Slow and Purposeful with a purchaseable upgrade to make them Relentless.

[C'Thulhu]

I skimmed so if this has already been said then I apologize...

I think GW needs to go a lil' more indepth with kroot. In their fluff it says they take on the genes of those they eat so give 'em rules like Ymgarl Genestealers

[LeeLoo]

I'm not sure what the Tau need as they kick my *** on a weekly basis, but...

If I was a Tau player I would want more flexible weapon options on my battle-suits and devilfish, and pretty much every thing else...

:o

[therealjohnny5]

really? the battle suits have great options as for the devilfish are you thinking more like a plasma\ melta option? bc they can only get the burst cannon and sms right now right?

[Porty1119]

That would be good, wouldn't it? Melta a transport and have the FW pop out and rapid-fire?

But...that sounds WAY too much like 5th-ed mech spam. Not cool. Tau should really get out-there tactics, not just tried-and-boring mech stuff.

[eldargal]

Out of interest, how feasible is a pure Tau (ie no Kroot or Vespid) force under the current codex?

[Lerra]

The most popular Tau armies are either pure Tau or Tau with one unit of Kroot - I'd say over 50% of all competitive lists are pure Tau. It's rare to see more than 1-2 units of kroot, and vespids are not very popular.

A lot of Tau players use Farsight as their HQ, and one of the restrictions on Farsight is that you can't take any Kroot or Vespids.

[MarshalAdamar]

Over all I like move of what the Tau have. Most things need a slight point’s reduction

I’ve heard a lot of people want to make Tau BS4, but I think that would be too good. Space marines train for decades to get to BS4, so BS3 for your standard fire warrior is plenty.

Here is my long winded theory on what the Tau should be.

I’ve heard some people want to make the devil fish “fast” but I think that niche should be for the Eldar. Right now Tau tanks count as “fast” for shooting. Which is good, Tau seem more like a strike force. They can get anywhere fast to engage the enemy, and then shoot them to death.

So here we go.

Fire warriors need something to help them against assault with out making them good AT assault and in keeping with the fluff. So, here are some ideas.

Keep in mind this is sort of a work in progress, and each unit keeps all special rules and options in the codex in addition to what I have here.

And I think that all FW options should be included in the new codex.

For fire warriors I think photon grenades for free, and they give the squad hit and run with a +1 to the result.

Option for flechette dischargers for the squad.

Fire warriors also could benefit from an alternative to CC, we all know that Tau rarely survive the first round of combat, so what about close quarters shooting.


FIRE WARRIORS (photon grenades for free)

• STAT LINE
WS2 BS3 S3 T3 I2 A1 W1 LD 7

• DEFENSIVE FLECHETTE DISCHARGERS = For an extra cost the unit can buy this option. Once per game a fire warrior unit can “deploy defensive perimeter charges” sort of like scout bikers booby trap.

If the unit moves the benefit is lost even if they move back to the same position. The flechette dischargers only work ONCE per game.

The effect is similar to the effect for a vehicle mounted flechette discharger. Any unit assaulting the FW unit will take a wound on a 4+ from the discharger for each assaulting model; this happens at I10 AND causes the assaulting unit to go LAST in CC. Casualties from the discharger DO not count for purposes of who won CC. The fire warrior unit fights normally in combat that round.

• CLOSE QUARTERS FIRE! = Can only be used if the FW unit has a shasui in it or an HQ attached. When Charged the Tau unit may make a ld check and if passed may fire ONE shot per model at the attackers.

This attack replaces their CC attacks for the round. Each model in the FW unit makes ONE shooting attack with its weapons S and AP profile, these attacks happen before CC begins and models killed by the close range fire do NOT contribute to CC nor do they count as casualties for the purpose of who won combat. After the first round (if they survive) the fire warriors will fight as normal.

If the LD test is failed the unit will still fight but strikes at I1 and will only score a hit on die roll of a 6, and wound as normal.

• PHOTON GRENADES
Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.

• DRONE CONTROLER
A drone controller could be purchased by the unit for an extra cost. A unit with a drone controller can have drones attached to the unit. In addition drones with in 18” have BS3, and can use photon grenade attack!

• PHOTON GRENADE ATTACK! (SEE HARBINGER DRONE CONTROLER ENTRY)


DEVIL FISH
• OUTFLANK This would simulate the devil fish cruising at altitude then swooping down on to the battle field.

• DEEP STRIKE (as drop pods) This would simulate the devil fish cruising at altitude then swooping down on to the battle field.

• VEHICLES BURST CANNONS
Same as a standard burst cannon but with 30” range.

• ADVANCED GUIDANCE ASSISTANCE
Devil fish can be equipped with advanced guidance package and can reroll deep strike scatter and or allow a deep striking unit with in LOS to reroll deep strike scatter roll. The devil fish must have been on the table the round previous to the one in which it will grant the scatter reroll.

**No deep striking the devil fish and then using it in the same round to allow the battle suits to reroll scatter dice.


HAMMER HEAD
• OUTFLANK

• DEEP STRIKE (as drop pods)

• FLIGHT OF 2
Rather than squadrons, two hammer heads may be taken for a single HS slot, but the vehicles function as independent vehicles are NOT bound by squadron rules.

• VEHICLES BURST CANNONS
Same as a standard burst cannon but with 30” range.

I do like the rumors that it will be able to hit multiple vehicles with one shot, I would decrease its STR by one for each vehicle it pens. So you Hit, pen and destroy the land raider, the shot continues on and hits a Rhino so it hits at S9 AP1, then S8 AP1 etc and any vehicle that it fails to destroy or wreck stops the chain.



SKYRAY
• OUTFLANK

• DEEP STRIKE (as drop pods)

• VEHICLES BURST CANNONS
Same as a standard burst cannon but with 30” range.

• FLIGHT OF 2
Rather than squadrons, two sky rays may be taken for a single HS slot, but the vehicles function as independent vehicles are NOT bound by squadron rules.

• MOBILE FIRE PLATFORM
Sky ray has two networked marker lights (counts as a defensive weapon) The sky ray can use those maker light hits to fire one seeker missile per successful hit. Also any other marker lights on the table may be expended to call in seekers from the sky ray as well.

Sky ray has unlimited seeker missiles.

Example: A unit of path finders paints a chimera with 3 maker lights; the Skyray paints a Rhino with one marker light. The Skyray can fire one missile for itself at the Rhino and the path finders can choose to use three marker lights to call in three seekers from the sky ray onto the Chimera.

• SEEKER MISSILE
Unlimited range S8 AP3- Heavy 1 No cover save *
Seeker missiles do not needs LOS and ignores terrain for purposed of cover saves. I.e. vehicles it targets do not get a cover save from TERRAIN or other vehicles that may be in the path. Seeker missiles do not ignore vehicle special rules such as holo fields.
Seeker missiles always strike side armor (to represent the missile striking top armor)

• SEEKER MISSILE FLECHETTE SUB MUNITIONS
Unlimited range S4 AP- Heavy 2 Small blast No cover save.


BATTLE SUITS
• STAT LINE
WS3 BS3 S5 T4 (5) W2 I3 A2 LD9 SV 3+ squad size 1-5

• FLECHETTE DISCHARGERS
Flechette dischargers should be a hard wired option with the same effect as vehicle Flechette dischargers.

• PHOTON GRENADES
For an extra cost the Battlesuits can purchase these. Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.

• JUMP PACKS
Suits keep the Jump shoot Jump movement

• POWER BLADE
Units of battle suits can upgrade ONE battle suit as the team leader, and as a hard point weapon option he can take a power weapon (Optimus Prime style) in the form of a power blade the slides out of housing in the fore arm.

• STABILIZED MARKER LIGHT
One model may be upgraded with a hard wired gyro stabilized maker light that can be used even if the unit moved that turn.

• DEEP STRIKE

• TEAM LEADER
Gets +1 WS and +1 BS

• DRONE CONTROLER
A drone controller could be purchased by the unit for an extra cost. A unit with a drone controller can have drones attached to the unit. In addition drones with in 18” have BS3, and can use photon grenade attack!

BROADSIDES
• STAT LINE
WS3 BS3 S5 T4 (5) W2 I3 A2 LD9 SV 2+ squad size 1-3

• FLECHETTE DISCHARGERS
Flechette dischargers should be a hard wired option with the same effect as vehicle Flechette dischargers.

• PHOTON GRENADES
For an extra cost the Battlesuits can purchase these. Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.

• DRONE CONTROLER
A drone controller could be purchased by the unit for an extra cost. A unit with a drone controller can have drones attached to the unit. In addition drones with in 18” have BS3, and can use photon grenade attack!


HQ BATTLESUITS
• STAT LINE
WS4 BS5 S5 T4 (5) W3 I4 A2 LD10 SV 3+

• FLECHETTE DISCHARGERS
Flechette dischargers should be a hard wired option

• PHOTON GRENADES
Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.

• JUMP PACKS
Suits keep the Jump shoot Jump movement

• POWER BLADE
HQ units with battle suit can take a power weapon (Optimus Prime style) in the form of a power blade the slides out of housing in the fore arm. This takes up one hard point weapon option.

• STABILIZED MARKER LIGHT
Model may be upgraded with a hard wired gyro stabilized maker light that can be used even if the unit moved that turn.

• DEEP STRIKE

• DRONE CONTROLER
A drone controller could be purchased by the unit for an extra cost. A unit with a drone controller can have drones attached to the unit. In addition drones with in 18” have BS3, and can use photon grenade attack!

PATH FINDERS
• STAT LINE
WS2 BS3 S3 T3 I2 A1 W1 LD 8 SV 4+

• SCOUTS (USR)

• INFILTRATE

• CAMO CLOAKS (Same effect as SM scouts)

• DEFENSIVE FLECHETTE DISCHARGERS

• PHOTON GRENADES
Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.

• DRONE CONTROLER
A drone controller could be purchased by the unit for an extra cost. A unit with a drone controller can have drones attached to the unit. In addition drones with in 18” have BS3, and can use photon grenade attack!

• PATHFINDERS DEVIL FISH
Path finder Devil fish is like the regular one with the addition of a telemetric distortion field. Pathfinders do NOT have to take a transport, but if they do take one it can infiltrate with them.

• TELEMETRIC DISTORTION FIELD
Any unit deep striking with in 24” of a vehicle equipped with this device rolls 3d6 for scatter and if an on target is rolled they roll d6 in the direction of the small arrow.

GUN DRONES
• STAT LINE
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 I2 A1 W1 LD 7 SV 5+ Squad size 1-12

• TWIN LINKED PULSE CARBINE

• BETTER PART OF VALOR
Drones can choose to pass or fail any moral or ld test

• JUMP PACKS

• DEEP STRIKE

• PHOTON GRENADES
Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.


HEAVY GUN DRONES
• STAT LINE
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 I2 A1 W1 LD 7 SV 5+ Squad size 1-12

• TWIN LINKED BURST CANNONS (18” RANGE)

• WEAPONS ALTERNATIVES (For additional cost and possibly with squad size restrictions. (TL Fusion blaster, TL Plasma rifle, TL Missile launcher)

• BETTER PART OF VALOR
Drones can choose to pass or fail any moral or ld test

• JUMP PACKS

• DEEP STRIKE

• PHOTON GRENADES
Counts as defensive grenades and gives the unit the hit and run special ability with a +1 to the result roll for the squad.

• MARKER LIGHTS
Any heavy gun drone may replace a TL weapon with a single weapon of the same type and marker light.


HARBINGER DRONE CONTROLER (Fast Attack)
• STATS F12 S12 R10 Smart missile system, Drone controller, Automated repair bay

• 12 Drones

• DRONE CONTROLER
A unit with a drone controller can have drones attached to the unit. In addition drones with in 18” have BS3, and can use photon grenade attack!

• AUTOMATED REPAIR BAYS
Drones with in 12” Have FNP vs. shooting only.

• OUTFLANK

• TELEMETRIC DISTORTION FIELD (optional wargear for this tank)
Any unit deep striking with in 24” of a vehicle equipped with this device rolls 3d6 for scatter and if an on target is rolled they roll d6 in the direction of the small arrow.

• DEEP STRIKE (as drop pods)

• PHOTON GRENADE ATTACK!
Any Units of drones with in 18” of a Drone controller may be used in a special attack. When the drones charge an enemy unit they set off a barrage of photon grenades and fire wildly while the onboard speakers play a cacophony of noise. The effect is to cause the unit that they charged to have to take an immediate ld test at -1 or fall back BEFORE any CC attacks are struck. If this attack is used it replaces the drones CC attacks for that round. If the attacked unit passes its Moral test they only hit on 6’s and wound normally for that round and fight as normal there after.

PIRANHA
• STATS F10 S10 R10 Open toped, Burst Cannon or Fusion blaster, two gun drones.

• DEEP STRIKE

• SKIMMER

• FAST VEHICLE

• SCOUT.

• MARKER LIGHT
Piranha may take a networked marker light in addition to any other weapons

• SEEKER MISSILE X2 (See Sky Ray entry)
Prianha may carry two seeker missiles for an extra cost.

Thats what I've been thinking about, needs some more thought but I think it would move the Tau into a niche all their own and help to seperate them from the Eldar.

As you can see I am very much against the Tau being good at H2H, with the exception of the Farsight enclave who I think should be better at H2H to make up for lack of equipment and the fact that they fought Orks had to had for years, I figure you either learn how to fight of you were dead. So they all should be pretty good by now.

I don't mind anti personel battle suits like those from FW, but they are more shooty just with bigger guns. I tried to make it more painful to assault the Tau, forcing the opponents to either take the lumps and assault or try and out shoot the Tau. I thought that was a very Tau approach.

Let me know what you think.

[Rapture]

I like the way the Tau work now. Any unit getting into assault range is bad news and always should be. I think the the ideas anti assault upgrades are interesting but these aren't marines, they need to have some weakness.

[Shuricane Wayne]

As an old 3rd Ed. Tau player (havent played them since then) I'd like to see ALL Crisis and Broadside Suits go back to BS 4. They're Elites for crying out loud! Bumping they're squad size to 5 wouldn't hurt either. A few new alien allies and a general pionts reduction and they would be a fine army again.

[royalpain88]

It seems like everyone is forgetting the rumor of the railgun shot that can go through armor and keep on going until it glances. I am not willing to have my railgun nerfed for squadrons. I would like to pay a bit extra for this capability and it all together can deal with squadrons but for balancing issues have it only for the Hammerhead.

I also love the idea of giving the Fire Warriors something like snare mines but I wouldn't mind modeling them after claymores.
I also love the idea of special weapons on Drones. Wouldn't mind packing twin-linked flamers for all of my squads.:)
I would also love to see a point reduction across the board for all units.
I also heard that HQ choices and characters can unlock troop choices so this mean we may FINALLY see more characters.
Also heard that Pathfinders will be plastic and are not forced to take the Devilfish. Love the plastic rumor and it frees up my only Devilfish.
I am not sure about our new ally for I have not heard anything about them.
I would also love to see Forgeworld weaponry for the Hammerhead become available or new weaponry.
Heard they are redesigning the XV-8 'Crisis' Battlesuit. Wouldn't mind that. Ankles are a bit frail and compared to Dreadknights, short. Lets say if they were somewhere in between the height of the XV-9 'Hazards' and those Dreadknights (Haven't seen the two next to each other so no idea how tall they are), that be sweet.

[Morgan Darkstar]

i think anything over XV9 size would be far to big "the Dreadknight is roughly the same size as a Trygon!"

personaly the size currently is about right it just needs a few tweaks in design

[Charistoph]

No standard Shas should have access to Power weapons at all. As nice as it would be, it is not in character for the army. Kroot and Demiurg, though, should definitely have access to them in form or another. Farsight's Seven Samurai having access to them, should be fine, too.

Vespid should be allowed to be more effective in close combat. Their speed should be allowed to help them be a bit more nasty than just wielders of Desert Eagles.

2 new Seeker versions would be nice. Flechette version with Blast, Poisoned 4+, Ignores Cover, and Promethium version with Template, Str 5, AP 4. And of course, reloading on the Sky Ray is almost a necessity.

3 new transports. Kroot Assault Sphere: Drop Pod for Carnivore squads with Assault Ramps. Pilot Fish: small fast transport mostly for Pathfinders, but small squads of Fire Warriors might find them useful. Devil Ray: smaller transport capacity but Sky Ray missile rack on top, swappable with some twin-linked Crisis Suit weapons.

Tetras implemented as Jet Bikes would be nice (or something similar). And I know someone earlier mentioned that Jet Bikes are only Eldar conventions, I know the Orks, the Crusade-era Marines, and Sammael would have some words with you. True, anyone else's would and should be pitiful compared to the Eldar's, but that doesn't mean it's exclusive technology.

[Lerra]

The Tetra looks awesome, so I'd love to see it included in the codex. In the fluff (and in the old army list), it's not uncommon for Kroot to have Witchblades or Exiscerators, which would be nice to see. Especially considering that all-Kroot armies are limited to S7 for shooting, and S4 in combat otherwise.

I wouldn't mind seeing an option for Shaper Councils or Kroothawks, either.

This is an old suggestion, but I like the idea that Tau HQs could take a special upgrade that disables power weapon attacks against them. Basically an "off switch" for power weapon attacks. That would fit Tau better than giving them power weapons, and be much more amusing.

[Charistoph]

This is an old suggestion, but I like the idea that Tau HQs could take a special upgrade that disables power weapon attacks against them. Basically an "off switch" for power weapon attacks. That would fit Tau better than giving them power weapons, and be much more amusing.

Oooh, now that's an interesting idea. To be properly balanced it would have to be only available to the HQ suits.

[Fishboy]

Here's a rule I'd love to see as an option that augments those magnificent kroot.

Call it something like Release the Hounds. During the Tau player's movement phase, any kroot unit with hounds can have all those hounds break off and form a separate unit. This unit of hounds gains the fleet and rage USRs, and cannot hold objectives. I'd also add to kroot units that at the end of any phase, if the kroot hounds outnumber the kroot warriors, this separation occurs.