Press Moulding Tutorial

[atacam]

After a few request I have put this how I did my press moulding

The first thing I did, was to get the items I wanted to take moulds of. In this case the Forge World Blood Angels Vehicle accessories.

I got some Fimo and rolled it out, I then simply pressed the fimo onto the shapes I wanted, when they were removed they look like this.

I then left them on the ceramic tile and put them into a preheated oven on gas mark 2 for 20mins. this makes the Fimo set.

After they were cooled I coated the area that I wanted to cast with Vaseline. I then mixed up the GS, waited about 20 mins then rolled out different rough sizes and put them onto the moulds. rolled over them so the GS went into the shapes fully, and left them to dry over night.

The next day I removed the casts and washed everything gently in hot soapy water. I then went about cutting off the excess GS from around the shapes, very much like cutting off flash. At this stage the GS is still quite soft so easy to gut, if you leave the GS for a full 24 hours it will be a lot harder and difficult to cut accurately.

Here are what the casts look like after a lot of cutting and some patience.

I just used super glue gel very carefully, first gluing the drip in the centre then working my wat out, placing the glue in place with a cocktail stick. And that is it.

If you have any question please feel free to ask.

[Christian]

One question: What is Fimo? Is it something like Blu-Tak ( something to stick stuff to walls, windows, etc.)?

[atacam]

One question: What is Fimo? Is it something like Blu-Tak ( something to stick stuff to walls, windows, etc.)?

Look here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fimo

[templar143]

i'm going to try the same thing with Sculpty, i think. i bought some clay, so i guess it's the same idea instead of making a green stuff mold. i bought aluminum muffin tins to offer more support, but i'm sure it's ok to cook on a tile.....cheaper too. time to get to work and do it already!

[atacam]

Let me know how it turns out.

[fuzzbuket]

im all for using press moulds for fancy armor and stuff YOU made but copying an ENITRE FW kit is illegal

theres some good tuts on SCRIBORS (inc sculpting) however you are essentially CASTING A WHOLE FW KIT

that is illegal please do a press mould tut on something else

-fuzz

p.s. id change the kit quickly before someone who has paid for multiple sets of these comes along,

[Big mek]

im all for using press moulds for fancy armor and stuff YOU made but copying an ENITRE FW kit is illegal

theres some good tuts on SCRIBORS (inc sculpting) however you are essentially CASTING A WHOLE FW KIT

that is illegal please do a press mould tut on something else

-fuzz

p.s. id change the kit quickly before someone who has paid for multiple sets of these comes along,

^^ what fuzz said!

[faolan]

What the above has said is true, but I'll add in another point:

The FW doors are mis-sized a bit, so you'd really want to test fit them, sand what needs sanding, and then plug the excess space with strips before taking the time to cast it.

Just a general hint ;)

[atacam]

Not too sure I have done anything illegal, as I am not copying as a whole but only as a part. Also they are strictly for personal use.

Just one point to faolan I not copying the whole panels, so sizing isn't really a problem.

Will repost once I have had an official answer, but a point to consider. There are tutorial all over You tube, showing this, and all have used supposedly copyrighted material.

If it turns out to be illegal, I will remove the tutorial, as I would not want to bring this forum into disrepute, and apologise. If it is perfectly legal, I hope my accusers are also big enough to apologise?

[atacam]

I have contacted GW and have been told, after they have seen the pictures, that it is a very grey area. Although there is some IP infringement, they are for strictly personal use only.

White Dwarf as they pointed out has even shown you how to do this, so casting further shadow on it. Also the fact that I have only used parts of, therefore changing the product slightly affords protection.

They have stated as long as they dont see these on sale on Ebay, which they wont as they are for me, nothing will be done.


I think thought in the interests of BOLS I will take these down, but like it made clear that nothing illegal has been done that has so un rightly been pointed out.

All I can say guys is read up before you accuse. If anyone else is interested in press moulding, the number escapes me, but look up the WD that shows you how to do it, or go on You Tube and just type in press moulding.

[energongoodie]

Like you say, you weren't trying to sell anything. You've done nothing wrong. Don't worry about it.

[isotope99]

Nice to see GW give you a common sense answer.

I agree with others, as long as you are not running your own F0rge Wurld business, it shouldn't be a problem, as its hard to argue loss of revenue.

[weeble1000]

It always amazes me how quickly people cry infringement. Cast the whole kit if you want man. If there's no damages, there's nothing that can be done about it and a strictly personal use doesn't cause any damages.

Thanks for the tutorial. I've done press molding with GS molds. I tend to cast tiny little things that I don't want to spend the time scratch building 40 or 50 of like skulls and aquillas, so most of my molds are made out of leftover GS, but I'll give fimo a try and see how it works out.

[fuzzbuket]

sorry .

[Lerra]

Fuzzbucket, keep in mind that copyright law varies greatly between countries. What may be illegal in Scotland may be perfectly legal in other countries.

Much to GW's chagrin, there are companies which legally make replicates of GW models for sale.

[DarkLink]

Also, in most places I believe it's only illegal if you try to sell your copies. You can make molds for your own personal use, you just can't profit off of them. I can't tell you where this is or isn't true, though.

[Big mek]

Not too sure I have done anything illegal, as I am not copying as a whole but only as a part. Also they are strictly for personal use.

Just one point to faolan I not copying the whole panels, so sizing isn't really a problem.

Will repost once I have had an official answer, but a point to consider. There are tutorial all over You tube, showing this, and all have used supposedly copyrighted material.

If it turns out to be illegal, I will remove the tutorial, as I would not want to bring this forum into disrepute, and apologise. If it is perfectly legal, I hope my accusers are also big enough to apologise?



Well, as long as you are sure, i didnt mean to throw rocks at anyone, just for you to be sure there wasnt an angry lawyer on youre doorstep one morning ;)

BM

[Porty1119]

GW is the only body in any position to do anything about it. If you got their OK, then it is truly OK! I will be using this precedent to make Aquilae based on the Valk nose component...

[weeble1000]

Civil suit = monetary damages. No monetary damages = no case. In America, the plaintiff has the burden to prove damages.

It was very responsible and mature of atacam to discuss this matter with GW, especially considering that his tutorial is posted on a forum and might expose others to some old fashioned GW intimidation.

It was crappy of GW to call this a "grey area." That's code for "it pisses us off but we can't do anything about it." That's especially hypocritical considering GW's White Dwarf article about press molding. It's startling to me how GW can on the one hand say, "Hey, have fun with the hobby. Mold some pieces, convert your models, express yourself, and make the army your own," and on the other hand viscously defend its IP against well-meaning hobbyists with what amounts to bullying and intimidation.

What get's my blood up about this thread is that GW has created an environment in which hobbyists and customers are afraid to do anything that may upset GW. Does it make anybody else uncomfortable that the first responses to a helpful tutorial were essentially, 'Hey wait, you might get sued'? It sure as hell makes me uncomfortable. And the worst part isn't that GW has created an environment of fear and doubt with draconian litigation. The worst part is that people are encouraging that environment to grow and flourish by propagating the notion that it is both reasonable and justified for GW to litigate the way it does. It's one thing for GW to scare the crap out of people that want to enjoy its products. It's another thing to help them do it.

[Lane]

I can understand them considering this a Grey Area.

It is for personal use. Is unlikely to make more than a half dozen for himself.
They have had GS casting tutorials in WD.
He has changed the final item.
He is not selling them.

however

Their tutorial was meant to copy cool little bits, not the bulk of a model.
They have lost the sale of at least one set of doors.
The change he made was to remove the doors, the least significant part of the model.
The tutorial encourages others to make copies and gives them the means to do it. Leading to more lost sales.

You have to use common sense when looking at For Personal Use, Fair Use and Not For Financial Gain.

Ripping a CD to play on your iPod - OK
Allowing 1000 people to download that .mp3 file off a file sharing server - not personal use

Making a GS mold of a shoulder pad to use on 1-2 other models - ok
Making 10,000 points of Marines to use in Apoc game - probably not fair use, could be considered financial gain. Casting in chapter symbols, the one finger salute, is probably not a significant change to count as derivative work.

[weeble1000]

Lane,

I understand your points and you make good ones. My concern is generally about GW's legal position vis a vis its hobbyist customers, the generally hostile environment that it creates, and the way that environment is encouraged by members of the gaming community.

Sure, GW could file a complaint alleging inducement and they could make a tenuous allegation as far as damages are concerned. That potential creates a grey area since depending the a variety of factors that you pointed out such a claim would have more or less merit.

However, realistically and practically speaking, legal action in this instance should not even be an option on the table. At least that's my opinion. I think a healthy company that has a productive relationship with its customers would let this kind of thing roll off its back. It means people like the products, are engaged with the IP, and are devoting time, effort, creativity, and money to the product. It is, in fact, supportive of the business.

The fact that the legality of this tutorial is even under consideration is disturbing. It is indicative of the hostile and aggressive relationship GW has with its customers. Instead of embracing the sort of hobby activity that this tutorial represents, GW has grudgingly accepted it and given the implication that atacam is skating on thin ice. GW has created a mystique, deliberately or not, that makes it seem like it is hiding in the shadows, waiting to pounce on the smallest infringement.

GW's response to atacam fed this image because its "grey area" language suggests that it could suddenly decide to take action. Nobody said, "Don't worry guy, you're cool. I'm glad you're having fun. By the way, have you seen the White Dwarf article we did about this? Check it out for some additional tips and we'd love to see some pics of your finished product too." No, the response was basically, "We're not concerned about what is going on yet, but there may or may not be a problem. We're not going to pounce on you at this point in time, but if we see this crap on e-bay you better watch your butt."

Obviously, I wasn't involved in the actual communication, but that seems to be the gist of it. I also think the responses to atacam's tutorial reinforce this point. People seem to think that GW is watching over their shoulders looking for any wrongdoing it can punish. They at least felt the threat was legitimate enough to warn about it. But the threat isn't real. It is just a mystique. I don't think the community should be giving it credence by acting as if it was real. There's no way that GW or any big company would realistically do anything about this. There's nothing to gain from it and, more importantly, if it actually came down to litigation, it wouldn't fly in the courtroom.

GW uses its comparatively large size and resources to bully others into doing what it wants. GW assumes that if it starts a fight, nobody will have the resources or willpower to fight back. That's why they send out C&D orders at the drop of a hat. Just look at what happened with that Curse litigation. That time a C&D order wasn't enough because the defendant might have actually had the resources to put up a fight, so they upped the ante by filing a complaint and hiring a big, expensive law firm that is extremely good at IP litigation.

Instead of being reasonable and respectful, GW's legal position vis a vis its hobbyist customers is that of a schoolyard bully. The more you talk about how big and scary that bully is, the more power it has to control your life. Nobody should be worried about the legal repercussions of casting a few chapter icons or teaching other hobbyists how to do it. So I say cast the icons, cast the whole kit, do whatever you want to do to enjoy your hobby and don't worry about some scary-looking company trying to tell you what is right and wrong.

[Porty1119]

This probably has no legal basis (sob!) but my logic is: would you have bought more of the stuff? If no, then no damages were incurred. Anyways, amen to you weeble 1000! GW needs to realize that all this does is detract from their business. Given the choice between some draconian megacorporation (GW) and random small company casting similar models, I know which one I'd buy from...(hint: not GW!)

[atacam]

Thank you Weeble. I commend you for your posts, they are well formulated and thought provoking.

Ok the response from FW not GW(one in the same really) was one of enjoy the hobby, as far as I read it, they said in the interests of not derailing my painting project, and pointed to WD to further back my claim, I think.

in response to Lane. No I would not have bought anymore of the door sets, in fact I bought enough for all my vehicles and the 3 I haven't yet bought, plus an extra set, should I wish to make a storm raven, so I think I have bought enough. Also I have only press moulded symbol, nothing else, to add to said vehicles, and before you complain they have icon packs and brass etching, I have also bought these, so I think it is fair to say, that FW have not lost any revenue, do you agree to this point at least?

I like Weeble also found it disturbing to some of the initial replies to this thread, maybe they did it with the best interests at heart, although I wasn't impress with Fuzz, shouting at me about it.

I also found his tone if you cant afford it dont steal it slightly offensive, please dont assume my financial position. I can well afford to buy more stuff, than I could ever hope to open, let alone paint. But, that doesn't mean, I will frit money away just to make you happy, as I am predominately a painter/hobbyist, I want to do this press mould,funny enough after reading Scibors tutorial that you Fuzzbucket pointed out. This I find Ironic, as he has been one of the biggest IP infringes of recent times, but due to his location, in the world, and the laws that cover cannot be done. Of course he has at last shown us he can sculpt, and has poo pooed on GW from a great height in terms of quality, have you seen his Minotaurs?

[fuzzbuket]

im really sorry
sorry atacam :o sorry weeble :o

also sorry about shouting that was weebles post which i misunderstood ( i took it the wrong way and thought he was basicly saying its okay to steal, which he wasnt)

and i never tried to assume ANYONES financial positon i was merely implying that warhammer is a luxury.



if GW and forge world say its okay thats fine (who am i to critisie you)


sorry.


-fuzzbuket

p.s. @ porty did you know GW once WAS a tiny company specoalising in wooden boards for chess and such :P

p.p.s (illl make my posts nicer the shouting one was done too late at night.)

[wittdooley]

Ata-- I really appreciate the tutorial. The people claiming you were "copying the entire door" couldn't have actually read the tutorial, as you made it pretty obvious that you were clipping pieces from the door mold.

Regardless, I think the people being the GW internet IP police here are being ridiculous. Get over yourselves.

As for GW themselves. I'm going to make a completely uninformed guess that they said it was in the "grey area" because they're not going to tell him it's just fine, as someone would likely take that information as "hey!
GW said it's okay for me to make my own molds of their stuff!" Despite what everyone seems to think about GW, I sincerely doubt they're going to be aggressively prosecuting a hobbyist that PURCHASED a kit and uses push molds to use bits of the design on other things. Again, Ata wasn't even using them on tanks.

Threads like this sadly remind me of how many blowhards we have in this hobby.

Ata, thanks again for the tutorial. I'm going to try that with some of my FW Salamanders stuff to get icons on my termies.

[atacam]

im really sorry
sorry atacam :o sorry weeble :o

also sorry about shouting that was weebles post which i misunderstood ( i took it the wrong way and thought he was basicly saying its okay to steal, which he wasnt)

and i never tried to assume ANYONES financial positon i was merely implying that warhammer is a luxury.



if GW and forge world say its okay thats fine (who am i to critisie you)


sorry.


-fuzzbuket

p.s. @ porty did you know GW once WAS a tiny company specialising in wooden boards for chess and such :P

p.p.s (illl make my posts nicer the shouting one was done too late at night.)

Hey, water under the bridge, lets move on. Lets get back to the reason we are here, because we love this hobby, in all its forms...

Hope to show more of my stuff soon, although most of it isn't GW. I think thats ok?

[fuzzbuket]

yeah thats cool :D one of my fave models is a paper dread with bullet arms :D ( i have a thing for dreads a eldar one munching a guardsman a FW GK one and a FW ven with icons :P)