Resurrecting the Necrons

[Denzark]

Recently, I bought a Necron Army.I fancied something different, xenos, and quick to paint. Now, although I've brought Blood Angels latest codex to a draw inside my first 3 games, the next time my opponent used a supposed 'suicide' squad of sternguard to use nasty poisoned rounds on my Nightbringer - he died quite quickly. I then watched over 50 gauss shots from several squds only kill 1 of a 10 man squad - because of dice, then SP FNP. Whilst the monoliths are amusing as hell, its just too brittle an army without relying on luck.

Now, I didn't want to prompt people to tell me to stick with it or tell me you are the uber necron lord and you always table everyone - what I wanted to discuss was that, for poos and giggles, i went back to Dawn of War Soulstrom, and started the Necron Campaign. And boy, do those digital sprites play like I actually imagine the fluff to play! Absolute nails, everything is an afterthought behind legions of warriors and a nails lord, just tipping back the enemy until you resurrect the monlith then royally bone them silly.

So, I thought, with the other thread about DE about to be the new cheese, do you think GW will do Necrons justice with the next ed? What needs to stay, what needs to go? I for one would like to see fearless in, and the effects of some deathstar unit smashing you in hth and catching you vs initiative, not preempt WBB - I would pay up to Plague Marine points and still think it was worth it.

Any thoughts?

[LadasN]

I think that GW will do well with the crons, making them strong opponents again. Fearless would be nice for them but I wouldn't want to see another Nightbringer-esque character in there, I don't like hero-hammer myself though the NB would still be fine with me (he dies easy enough but kills well). I can't wait to see what they do with them and eagerly await this release.

[Weafwolf]

Personally, I'd like to see the following changes for sure.

1. Gauss becomes rending. Might as well remove Heavy Destroyers from the codex at that point, though.
2. We'll Be Back keeps its name and fluff but uses the Feel No Pain rule. Feel No Pain would actually help a bit in close combat, unlike WBB, and does away with all those awkward problems about checking for WBB eligibility.
3. I'd love Stubborn for Warriors, even if their leadership was reduced to 9. I'd take Fearless, however. That way they wouldn't be complete tar pits in close combat.


Those are the main ones I think are necessary. Other ideas I've liked but see issues with have included
1. Slow but Purposeful for Warriors: might be overkill if gauss causes rending, but fits the fluff.
2. Doing away with Phase Out altogether: While I hate the way PO limits my list building, making Monoliths and the C'tan risk-free could lead to the elimination of the C'tan from the codex altogether, as well as distressing numbers of Monolith spam lists. My main objection to Phase Out, aside from the list building problem, is that it requires Necrons to be overpowered in some hard-to-quantify way. Should they all cost 75% of what they would without PO? A Warrior with FNP and a rending gun would have to cost, what, 20 points? Maybe even as much as Nurgle marines? But with phase out shouldn't that be 15 points? And what happens when enough overpowered, underpriced Warriors all shoot at once?
3. Different "flavors" of Necron Lord: I want more information. I'd personally love to have a Lord on a Wraith body or even a twisted Flayed One Lord rather than just a two-wound support Lord, and three-wound combat Lord, etc...
4. Upgrades for units: I suppose some kind of disruption field upgrade might help in close combat, but my absolute favorite idea was using Pariahs as sergeants. Problem is, that would be too much. An army wide Ldr 7 effect? Army wide Soulless effects on psykers? Ouch. In general, I don't like a Warrior sergeant with a power weapon upgrade, however.
5. Addng units: sounds cool in the abstract, but what would they be? Might it not be best to make the available units more useful, instead? An army with Pariahs, Immortals, scarabs and Wraiths on board would sure look a lot less boring than Deceiver, Monolith, Monolith, Destroyers.

[RocketRollRebel]

Fearless would be great, FNP too, gauss I'd keep the same but add Slow and Purposeful. New units. Give flayed ones rending with a boat load of attacks (necron gene stealers?).

I think GW will hit this one out of the park too. Not sure why but its a relatively simple army design but has a lot of potential to get awesome again.

[Duke]

Well, I don't know about fearless. Mephiston isn't fearless and he has overcome the black rage/ red thirst. lol

seriously though, Im pretty confident that they will come stock with T4 3+ save, FNP and fearless... Though just for the sake of variation I would love to see them with T4 4+ save, FNP and fearless. I know all the arguments for a 3+ save, but some variation would be great. I.E. 3+, FNP, fearless = Blood Angels.

Duke

[LadasN]

Well, I don't know about fearless. Mephiston isn't fearless and he has overcome the black rage/ red thirst. lol

seriously though, Im pretty confident that they will come stock with T4 3+ save, FNP and fearless... Though just for the sake of variation I would love to see them with T4 4+ save, FNP and fearless. I know all the arguments for a 3+ save, but some variation would be great. I.E. 3+, FNP, fearless = Blood Angels.

Duke

Well lets be fair here, facing the horrors of the galaxy for a millenia and taking anger management aren't all the same thing! XD sorry, I had to.

I agree with Weawolf's points though, that would be really good.

[Drew da Destroya]

I'd like to see T5 4+ save warriors, break up the T4 3+ overload a bit... FNP, sure, but no rending on the weapons. Leave Gauss as it is now against squishy targets, but maybe give it rending against vehicles? Then again, most army's basic infantry weapon is useless against vehicles anyway... making Warriors tough as hell should be enough, without giving them anti-vehicle ranged powers.

SnP would be cool, too... especially if the Gauss stays Rapid.

[Dr. Doctor]

- Maybe give Immortals alternate wargear options, it would be nic/e to be able to switch out the anti-infantry Gauss Blasters for an anti-tank Heavy Gauss blaster.

-Give Immortals a 2+ armor save, the 3+ doesn't really make it seem like the Immortals are really immortal.

- Change the Heavy Gauss Cannon into a Lance weapon, the fluff has a heavy destroyer's gun being able to punch through both sides of a Land Raider, that seems pretty much in line with a lance weapon to me.

-The Necron Lord's Chronometron could be changed to a device that speeds up the flow of time around the unit the Lord is attached to adding +1 initiative in CC

-Give Necron Warriors Slow and Purposeful, in my mind I see Necrons as a legion of slowly advancing killer robots. Slow and Purposeful would also help keep the 'crons firing a steady hale of Gauss fire. Or if they had a Lord leading them they would become Relentless.

-Offer different tiers of Necron Lord, have a Greater Necron Lord as an HQ choice with access to wargear and better stats and then offer a Lesser Necron Lord as an elites choice that can be used with other squads, like a SM chaplain.

-Remove C'tan as an HQ choice and perhaps offer a piece of wargear that allows the Necron Lord to be "possessed" by either the Nightbringer or Deceiver for a set number of turns. Think this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3h8ZnXLsRg

- A Pariah squad could act in a similar capacity as a psychic hood, allowing a Necron force with low I to defend itself against psychic powers such as Jaws of the World Wolf, one change being that the number of Pariahs in a squad would act as a modifier to the standard hood test.

-Some kind of Flamer analogue like a Gauss Lightening Thrower for Necron Warriors

-Tomb Spyders generate some kind of repair bubble that gives every unit within 6" FNP instead of WBB

-Named Necron Characters other than the C'tan, Codex: Blood Angels references a Lord that was named The Silent King so it might be possible.

[Divergent Reality]

My wish list for a future Necron update has several things.

Army wide special rule for Necrons:
Stubborn, Feel no Pain, Gauss.

Gauss can be fiddled with, making it only glance vehicles at a -1 on the vehicle damage table or turn it into rending. Whichever.

Flayed Ones get a streamline in rules. Terrifying visage is neat, but so inconsistent it does very little. If terrifying visage just gave their opponents -1 to their WS, it would be great.

Bump up the cost of Wraiths, and give them power weapons. They can fly through buildings, but a tin can on an Ork's head stops their claw...

Be very clear and concise with the Monolith's special rules.

If the C'tan are removed, oh well. They are not very well represented on the table top. If Lords are changed to be able to have an aspect of the C'tan that would be fine. Leave the actual C'tan for apocalypse.

Poor, poor Pariahs. They need so much. An extra attack, the ability to teleport (how the hell do they get to a battle that is not on a tomb world if they have to walk everywhere?).

Take a look at the tag line from Codex Necrons: Their number is legion, their name is death. The entire force could be changed to represent a more impressive legion. Decreasing the costs on average. GW could even reduce the average Necron save to a 4+. Giving the average Necron unit a 4+, followed by their 4+ We'll Be Back.

GW has already hinted at multiple levels of Necron Lords, and possibly named Lords with some expansions and campaigns. When we look at the new 'nid codex they brought back named characters. The next Necron codex will probably have a few in there.

In review: tl;dr, change stuff GW.

[BuFFo]

I believe GW will do a good job with Necrons.

The Necron army was my favorite late 2nd edition/early 3rd edition army to play, but since the codex, they have been a disappointment to me. I hope GW brings the flavor and love back into this otherwise bland and boring army.

[Necron_Lord]

I'd like to keep most units as they are, but would like to see some more weapon and build variety. I would like to have some units (like walkers for instance) which would be nasty in CC and with living metal so they would be massive fire magnets and really tough, but not uber fast.

1) all necron infantry and jetbikes should become stubborn
2) gauss weapons are rending vs. non-vehicular units and add +1 to vehicle damage roll but otherwise keep gauss weapon rules the same
3) Warriors are slow and purposeful, so they will have a 24" kill zone when moving
4) more variety for necron lords
5) buff flayed ones by making their attacks rending or allowing upgrades which ignore armor saves
6) bring down costs of units (esp. pariahs) unless they are compensated with powers and/or abilites to justify their cost
7) upgrades for units and/or new units to make the army more interesting
8) get rid of phase out
9) allow unit sizes to increase (esp. for wraiths and HD) so they aren't as vulnerable to just a tactical squad firing at double shot range

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

I like the idea of adding a 'sergeant' type to squads. Immortals leading warriors, pariahs leading immortals, H. Destroyers leading destroyers, something like that.

The adding rending to the Gauss rule would kind of make H destroyers unnecessary, they could just make them a retinue for destroyer lords though, as opposed to 'joining a unit'.

Flayed ones need to be troops.

Phase out just needs to stay, unfortunately. When the crons first came out, they were tough as nails and phase out wasn't as easy to achieve. It remains a big drawback, but if the crons get a buff to justify points costs instead of a reduction of costs, phase out will be here to stay...

These changes (some anyways) would loosen the FOC back up to "play with what looks cool to you", and not "play what you need so you don't get your @$$ kicked. Which takes a lot of fun out of the game.

As was said earlier, Min-Maxing warriors to fill the field with monoliths and H. Destroyers makes for bland play. Those rumored new units may be the key to this, but a full overhaul may be needed to keep them up with the times, or even for future editions so they don't get ganked again.

[Divergent Reality]

I like the idea of adding a 'sergeant' type to squads. Immortals leading warriors, pariahs leading immortals, H. Destroyers leading destroyers, something like that.

This is continuously the worst change suggested for Necrons.

Adding sub commanders makes little sense for a consistent mechanical force that can silently communicate throughout its command structure.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

This is continuously the worst change suggested for Necrons.

Adding sub commanders makes little sense for a consistent mechanical force that can silently communicate throughout its command structure.

Fluff wise, sure. But the guy who is writing the 'cron book also took black rage and red thirst away from the blood angels, their most notable piece of fluff.

I was simply suggesting this for more firepower, something to mix things up.

[MarshalAdamar]

Wraiths need to have either rending or power weapons to make them worth while.

The Gauss rule needs to be changed to rending so Crons can deal with vehicles.

I think that the army needs fearless and FNP to keep it in line with fluff

C'tan needs to go. They're cool but they're not really cool enough for what they are and if they were they would be to powerful for a normal game.

Flayed ones need rending and need to be troops.

And Pariahs needs to be reworked. They have a great gun, and an amazing weapon, they're T5, S5 and role 2d6 for AP whats not to like? They mostly need to be cheaper and maybe make them a 0-1 unit I love them but they need some changes.

[Duke]

I don't know about the rest of the stuff, but the Ctan need to go... No gods in 40k please. In fact I wouldn't mind a special character with the same exact profile and abilities as the night bringer, just no gods!

Duke

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

I don't know about the rest of the stuff, but the Ctan need to go... No gods in 40k please. In fact I wouldn't mind a special character with the same exact profile and abilities as the night bringer, just no gods!

Duke

I think they are referred to as gods by the necrontyr, which were incredibly frail and short lived. Would you say the same thing about the eldar avatar? The word avatar literally means "personification or embodiment" Isn't he close enough to a god?

Besides, they aren't that tough. They are technically only as strong as the necrodermis. They aren't killable per say, but you can effectively eliminate them in game. Plus, with them being the only current named characters(also possibly including the silent king or whatever), I honestly can't see them taking them out.

Reworked, however, is definitely a possibility. If they stay, they may get a points increase or get hit with the nerf bat so hard they go cross-eyed and forget gaze of death/grand illusion...

[Torcano]

I think they are referred to as gods by the necrontyr, which were incredibly frail and short lived. Would you say the same thing about the eldar avatar? The word avatar literally means "personification or embodiment" Isn't he close enough to a god?

Besides, they aren't that tough. They are technically only as strong as the necrodermis. They aren't killable per say, but you can effectively eliminate them in game. Plus, with them being the only current named characters(also possibly including the silent king or whatever), I honestly can't see them taking them out.

Reworked, however, is definitely a possibility. If they stay, they may get a points increase or get hit with the nerf bat so hard they go cross-eyed and forget gaze of death/grand illusion...
First person to EVER say that they *should* keep the C'tan.

I thought the silliness of them was universally perceived. Anyway, I feel like you haven't really read all the Necron fluff. The C'tan are *definately* gods. They have existed since the dawn of time. Thats god to me.

What people mean when they say "take out the C'tan" is usually "replace the C'tan fluff for that model (with something like a Lord being possessed).

I can't imagine a C'tan in anything but a colossal Apoc. game.

Also....the BA still have Rage and Red Thirst (especially red thirst...its army-wide?)

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Show me where I said they "*should*" be kept. I feel like you didn't read my post. You ignored my point on the avatar, you can't argue when you dodge a counter point. All I said was I can't see them taking them out.

I can read, I know all about the "possessed lords" ideas, and the bronze to platinum level lords (which is just a lazy, unimaginative, cheesy cop-out). The fluff was even lazy, but in writing it like they did, it either leaves room for you to paint your own picture, or gives net nerds something else to complain about (since that's what they do best).

And you talk about silliness? We play with little army men and tanks, and spend gratuitous amounts of money to do so, during a recession... Don't talk to me about silly. Just enjoy they escapism it provides.

[Duke]

Good point on the Avatar... But I feel they are fundamentally different (C'tan and Avatars). The Avatar is only a portion of a sliver of the power of Khiane. C'tan are themselves, not a portion of a sliver of themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are overpowered or that I don't know how do kill them. In fact most Necron players I know don't even use them. Im not even saying get rid of the fluff, all I am saying is that personages like the Emperor, Khorne himself and C'tan should be kept off the table.

Duke

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Good point on the Avatar... But I feel they are fundamentally different (C'tan and Avatars). The Avatar is only a portion of a sliver of the power of Khiane. C'tan are themselves, not a portion of a sliver of themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are overpowered or that I don't know how do kill them. In fact most Necron players I know don't even use them. Im not even saying get rid of the fluff, all I am saying is that personages like the Emperor, Khorne himself and C'tan should be kept off the table.

Duke

And that's all good and fine! Opinions are totally welcome, and a point to you duke.

We don't really know how much power khaine has, so the avatar may just be the proper representation we get in game. And that's all good and fine. C'tan can stay or go as far as I care, but we should get a tomb stalker or a walker or something in return. I just don't think that the C'tan are so overpowered that they should be apocalypse only.

[The wolf's claw]

ive been playing necrons for ages now, and sometimes they come up awesome, but others they flail miserably. if gw redid them i dont think it would be great, but just really different.

id like to see
- unique we'll be back (not just fnp) i had an idea, when you roll a 4+ per model killed, and once enough of that type has been killed they can deep strike back on as a new unit, maybe using monoliths and tomb spyders as beacons to teleport to?
- pariahs that can actually fight in a combat instead of just hanging around forever,
- some sort of more common invunerable, power weapons are just too gay against crons atm
- scarabs to remain jetbikes,
- some sort of power weapon, maybe an upgrade to flayed ones or wraithes,
- a new vehicle, maybe like a tripod walker thingy (being ancient enemies of the eldar id like more of a counter part to a wraithlord or warwalker)
- a new hq choice, a psyker perhaps? or a more versatile lord

but gw will probably just do what they did with chaos and make it all generic rules like fnp and slow and purposeful :(

[C'Thulhu]

I would like a fast open topped transport vehicle. It would make Pariahs more mobile and useful. As well as add some much needed mobility to the army

[Brettila]

Even in 2nd ed. Necrons were not fearless. However, stubborn is totally appropriate. FNP makes WBB much easier to take care of. Not sure about rending on an entire army. Keeping the ability to wound anything on a 6 is good. Perhaps having gauss weapons only minus 1 on glancing hits would help make them scary to vehicle armies as before. With the current meta-game, it would be hilarious to see people go back to not playing vehicles against Necrons again. Can't decide if they need new units of just improvements to the ones they have. Upgrades, wargear, staying around in CC once more would be nice. Larger units for some like destroyers and wraiths, giving the 'Necron' rule to more units would help. And above all, get rid of Phase Out. They have the only army with a rule that says you auto-lose. Ridiculous.

[Olaf]

The outdated codex and vast amount of metal models has kept me away from making a Necron army for a long long time.

1. FNP is the simple solution to WBB but I think the WBB rule (it should be modified a bit) makes things unique and flavorful.
2. I'm also digging the idea of slow and purposeful. Really would help out squads of warriors
3. I agree with a walker of some sort.
4. Wraiths need help and for gods sake plastic models.
5. Making gauss more deadly would be awesome.

[Grubbslinger]

It might be good for WBB to use something like the "Send in the next wave" rule for conscripts , in which once a necron unit is completely destoryed, it can remerge on the edge of the table as if deployed from reserves. Might be a little much considering strong of a unit warriors are compaired to conscripts but it might work.

[heartbitt]

The outdated codex and vast amount of metal models has kept me away from making a Necron army for a long long time.


Get out of my head !!!!! LOL

[Renegade]

A few ideas.

Leave most of the list as is, with the ability to upgrade troops and weapons if they belong to one of the gods.

So, standard warriors have the sae rule for gauss and crons as now + slow and purposeful and are just as fragile (lower the cost to 10 points each)These represent normal drone types.

C'Tan rules on Necron @ + 20 points per unit.
Void Dragon = str + 2 gauss + lance rule (nolonger auto wound on 6+) crons have +1 Int (nolonger slow).
Deceiver = Gauss has Rending and crons have stealth and move through over.
Nightbringer = Gauss has melta rule and crons are relentless.
Outsider = Gauss wounds on a 4+ in stead of 6 and -1 AP (so normal gun is ap 4 and so on) and crons have +1 toughness.

Drones can be mixed in to these but C'Tan don't like each other so cant be mixed.

[C'Thulhu]

If Necrons get SaP it'd be neat to make all the weapons heavy and respectively up every guns strength or AP. I mean since they're robots why wouldn't they be carrying heavy weapons unlike typical human infantry. Adds some flavor to the army.

Also named FOs and/or wraiths that grant preferred enemy.

Another idea I've bounced around with friends was giving FOs different skins that could target specific armies (i.e. ork skin = -2 Ld. on terrifying visage w/ orks)

[Gop]

I'd be happy with losing phase out. This stops people taking more of the esoteric units because they have to stock up on warriors. It's pretty easy, especially with a shooty army, to phase out a normal necron list. Of course the 3 monlith 2 res orb destroyer lord and all warriors list is harder, but how often do you see them?