Whose better Space Marines or Chaos?

[foostoofoo]

So what I'm after here is who do you think is better Marines or their evil counterparts? Does revised 5th edition codex give the imperiums best the edge? Or does the foul twisted power of the chaos gods give them the advantage?

I want to hear who and why, units that stand out, units that are useless etc...

[jimbobjeff]

I'd have to say chaos, 2 lash princes, 9 obliterators and plague marine squads in rhinos is one of the toughestslists around, marines have vulkan and thunderhammer/storm shield terminators but I still think chaos edges it in the tournament environment.

[Ulf]

To answer that, you'd have to search for the differences, as on first glance the armies do look quite equal.

Space Marines vs Chaos Space Marines:

CSM are obviously the more point effective unit from a mathhammer point of view. Equal stats, roughly twice as good in close combat, cost one point less and have better equipment options for close range fighting (they can take 2 assault weapons like meltas) - in addition, you can field squads of 20.

SM have a view nice gimmicks of their own, though. ATSKNF has its uses, all in all it works pretty much like the Hit & Run USR. They get free/cheaper equipment, which sets off the cost difference. Last but not least they have combat tactics, which makes you more flexible, especially if you want to use a heavy weapon.

As always, there is no plain "better". Both have their uses. CSM dominate in close combat, especially with a mark of Khorne. But even there, loyal marines can hold their ground. 10 CSM with mark of Khorne are 180 Pts, thats 10 Marines with plascan and melta. Marines split into two squads of 5, one with melta in front, one with plascan somewhat behind. They shoot until they get charged, the survivors try to fall back and then shoot/charge on their turn, whilst the squad not locked in CC moves the plascan further away to get some more shots. Hard to say who would win in this direct comparison, it's kinda "off table" anyway.

[GrandReaper]

These questions have the inherent question of a built in ambiguity - are you asking about the overall codex (list, story, etc), overall armylist (variety, capability, overall list balance) or "best list using only the most abusive items".

I actually think the answer to all three is SM however, with Chaos being close in terms of abusiveness. However, other than the Chaos list you put forth, everything else pales compared to the variety/power/resiliance of the loyalists. Take Lash out of Chaos and what have you got? Better troops due to Cult troops, but contrary to the writers intentions, 5th edition is NOT about troops.

[Schnitzel]

These questions have the inherent question of a built in ambiguity - are you asking about the overall codex (list, story, etc), overall armylist (variety, capability, overall list balance) or "best list using only the most abusive items".

I actually think the answer to all three is SM however, with Chaos being close in terms of abusiveness. However, other than the Chaos list you put forth, everything else pales compared to the variety/power/resiliance of the loyalists. Take Lash out of Chaos and what have you got? Better troops due to Cult troops, but contrary to the writers intentions, 5th edition is NOT about troops.

Lash isn't the only thing we've got. Our troops are top notch yeah, but we've got some other goodies too.
Icons of Chaos are a big thing. Nurgle with its +1 T, Khorne with +1 Attack. Very nice. And giving them to just about any unit choice is awesome. I like to run Khorne Raptors with 2 flamers training a Rhino wall.
Nurgle bikers would seem like a pretty mean idea as well. Too bad we can't get FNP on them too.
Our Terminators are cheap and very cost effective. And we only need to take 3 if we want. Very effective unit.
Chaos Chosen are pretty good too. At 18pts a pop some might groan about the cost, but thats not "that" much. Take a squad of 5 and suit it up with Melta/Flamer spam. Or power weapons. For my own list I'm leaning towards flame spam. Squad of 5 consisting of 3 flamers, a melta and a combi melta. Throwing 'em in a Rhino with my "counts as" Huron Blackheart.