Infantry screening for the screen challenged

[gwensdad]

OK, let me start with a picture, then onto the question...

http://cdn1.dailybooth.com/7/pictures/large/40d5ae0b961126bf56879f96702b418d_7096259.jpg

In the above picture, what I'm trying to do is set the infantry so that the tanks behind them can't be charged. the troops have a little under 1" each other. (Ignore the LRs in the back for now, they'll have their own screen) Now the question for the rules lawyers out there: Can the tanks be charged? It almost seems that as long as my opponent can get a model between and 2 guardsmen then he can charge them, so do I need to have them even closer together?
My tanks are always getting killed in HtH by "not cheesy" Blood Angel assault squads and I'm hoping he drops a veteran assault squad w/Dante right in front of them and find that he can't charge the tanks, charges (and wipes) the "screen", then gets plasma'd to death.
If this doesn't work (by rules), then how many infantry does it take for a successful "screen"?

[Nabterayl]

Technically yes, your opponent can penetrate that screen. Nothing in the rulebook says that the restriction on passing within 1" of enemy models is only lifted after the first model in the charging unit has made contact with the object of its charge.

However, note that the first model in the charging unit must be able to make contact with the object of its charge in the shortest possible straight line. Hence, if you have a 1" gap between infantry models, your opponent's closest model must be able to charge exactly in between the 1" gap, and the path that is exactly through the 1" gap must also be the shortest distance between your opponent's closest model and the closest model in the target unit, as the crow flies.

So while it is possible to charge between a 1" gap in an infantry screen, it requires very careful alignment. If the shortest path between the closest enemy model and the target tank deviates even a little bit to the left or right through the 1" gap, then the charge will fail. Of course, if you reduce the gap between screening models to less than 25mm, the screen will be impenetrable to assault.

[Culven]

However, note that the first model in the charging unit must be able to make contact with the object of its charge in the shortest possible straight line.
There is nothing in the Assault rules requiring that a model move along a line. The rules refer to the shortest path. So, the first model is free to to maneuver in order to make it into base contact, provided that this is the shortest route to base contact with it.

Still, as Nabterayl says, a gap of less than 1 inch will prevent any model from moving between the screen.

[Nabterayl]

There is nothing in the Assault rules requiring that a model move along a line. The rules refer to the shortest path. So, the first model is free to to maneuver in order to make it into base contact, provided that this is the shortest route to base contact with it.
Oooh, good catch. Culven is quite correct - the important difference being that the "shortest path" is permitted to bend around impassable obstacles, such as impassable terrain or other models, so what I said about straight lines is all just wrong.

[Tynskel]

eh, you just oversimplified it, that's all.

In most cases, a straight line is the shortest path. You could almost treat impassable terrain like a medium change, and apply Snell's Law. You would, in a sense, be still traveling in a straight line--- at least the shortest path! ;)

[Tynskel]

By the way--- Veteran Squads cannot charge after deep strike if there is an Independent Character attached to the squad.


There is a lot of risk involved in trying to land on top of your opponent.

[gwensdad]

By the way--- Veteran Squads cannot charge after deep strike if there is an Independent Character attached to the squad.


There is a lot of risk involved in trying to land on top of your opponent.

Really? Whoops. I think I made the mistake first (attaching Shrike to one), then he's been attaching Dante ever since.
Now to report myself to the campaign organizer (being something nobody else does)

[DarkLink]

The only real way to guarantee that the opponent cannot charge is to move your screening models close together, so there isn't enough room between them for the charging models to physically move through the screening unit.

[artemi]

Also, once a unit is shot, they don't need to worry about regrouping for coherency until their next turn's Move phase, right? So they could easily be shot with an assault weapon (one melta gun or pistol from a BA Sargent would do it), then charged through the gap. Of course, since you choose which models are removed, this is lessened, but still something to keep in mind.

[Nabterayl]

Also, once a unit is shot, they don't need to worry about regrouping for coherency until their next turn's Move phase, right? So they could easily be shot with an assault weapon (one melta gun or pistol from a BA Sargent would do it), then charged through the gap. Of course, since you choose which models are removed, this is lessened, but still something to keep in mind.
That's true, but it would take two units - one to shoot a hole in the screen and another to charge the tanks behind. Remember that a single unit cannot shoot one target and then charge another.

[Culven]

Depending how close the screen was tot he tanks and the relative positions of the attackers and defenders, it might be possible to pull off a multi-charge, but there may not be many models able to get through the gap to attack the Tanks.

[Nod]

For some reason I was under the impression you couldn't move through squads (your own or the enemy). I seem to have misplaced my rulebook though...

[Tynskel]

That's true, but it would take two units - one to shoot a hole in the screen and another to charge the tanks behind. Remember that a single unit cannot shoot one target and then charge another.

There are ways around that-- you poke a hole, and have some guys engage the infantry squad, then the others make their way to the tanks. As long as you are following the details of the assault rules, it works.

Oh,

hmmm...

I think I shall amend this statement, because the Veteran Assault Squad cannot shoot if they are attempting heroic intervention!

You'll have to use a different squad to poke a hole--- same tactics apply.



As for moving through squads: You just have to have path of model work--- ie no moving through impassable terrain. Just read up on moving and assault movement.

[DarkLink]

For some reason I was under the impression you couldn't move through squads (your own or the enemy). I seem to have misplaced my rulebook though...

You can move where ever you want, so long as you follow these rules:
1. There must be enough physical space between other models for the moving models to fit through
2. You must stay 1" away from enemy units
3. The moving unit must end its move in coherency.

As rule #2 disappears when making assault moves, it is possible to move through an enemy unit and assault the unit behind it, at least in theory. There are some other rules you have to follow that make it kinda tricky, but it is possible in the right circumstances.

[Nod]

Ah, I think I'd boiled it down to a rule of thumb since infantry bases are about 1" wide. So in effect you can't charge through to something behind if they're ever so slightly less than an inch apart.

[Nabterayl]

Ah, I think I'd boiled it down to a rule of thumb since infantry bases are about 1" wide. So in effect you can't charge through to something behind if they're ever so slightly less than an inch apart.
Correct.

[DarkLink]

Right, that's the only way to guarantee that you can't move through another squad.

[BuFFo]

If the charging unit can fit in between the infantry spacing, then yes, the tanks can be charged.

There is no such requirement for the charge to be a straight line, so if I wanted to charge your tanks, I could move 6" around your units in a circle to get to the tanks if I am able to, even if I am only 2: away from your tanks.

The only way to stop an assault is to make sure there is no physical space in between the infantry models so that the charging models cannot physically move in between the infantry without hitting the infantry.

[mathhammer]

That's true, but it would take two units - one to shoot a hole in the screen and another to charge the tanks behind. Remember that a single unit cannot shoot one target and then charge another.

So you shoot the squad then declare a dual charge and charge both units.

[Duke]

So you shoot the squad then declare a dual charge and charge both units.

Exactley! Just don't worry about it and dual assault. Why even rrisk getting charged back?

Duke

[Nabterayl]

Depends on the disposition of your squad and how many wounds you expect to make. Ten bolt pistols will only kill 4-5 guardsmen. Depending on how far away you are from the tanks, 4-5 guardsmen might not be enough to force the screening player to open a hole in his screen. It might also cause the guardsmen to Fall Back, in which case you might not be able to charge them.