Monolith (and general, skimmers) questions

[Morai-Heg]

Good morning all,

the question is quite simple: WHERE exactly can a Monolith (and, more generally, a skimmer) stand?

Yesterday, a quite embarassing situation happened: my friend who plays Necrons wanted to put his Monolith on the top of a ruin, placing it on the corner of the building. Half of the base of the monollith had no terrain to stand on, the monolith was only standing on the fence of the ruin, but it actually COULD stand there without sliding or falling down.
I was really doubtful about that, and in the end we let dice decide, but I remain with my doubts... check the pictures below and tell me if you think that's a spot where a Monolith can actually stand. If it is, I'll just take it for granted.

http://92.243.7.204/w40k/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=07082010027.jpg
http://92.243.7.204/w40k/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=07082010028.jpg
http://92.243.7.204/w40k/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=07082010029.jpg

More in general: what is the rule for skimmers? they can stand where the base can be placed? (and btw: has the monolith a flying base?) In all cases? Even if it is on the top of a flat rock? Or non-conventional places are considered difficult terrain for skimmers? I am asking that also for myself, since I play Eldar!

Second Question: How do you consider the movement of skimmers? Only horizontal movement or also vertical movement?
I'll explain: If my serpent flies over a hill, moving HORIZONTALLY 12" away from its starting point... do you consider that a 12" movement or more? It actually moved MORE than 12", even if it ended its movement 12" away from where it started.
That's important also for the monolith, because it can only move 6", so if you considervertical movement as relevant, it won't be able to fly over just about anything, not even a rhino...

Thanks for your help!

[karandras]

The Monolith is a difficult model due to it's size and slow movement. At times, opponents may need to work together to resolve certain terrain interactions (i.e. - let them move it 7" etc), at least in friendly games.

That being said, to address some of your questions. If an opponent chose to place the Monolith in the manner your pictures portray, I would definitely think a Dangerous Terrain Test would be in order.

I personally do not use a flying base on my Monoliths.

I have never counted off for vertical movement and the rules do not require such, as skimmers are permitted to move over intervening terrain and models.

[Inquisitor Hate Machine]

what Karandras said.

When you measure, you just measure straight distances, you dont make an arch with your tape measure or do some math, you just lay the tape flat and go, for SKIMMERS. Because Skimmers ignore terrain and models for movement.

IF a skimmer ends it move in difficult terrain, it makes a dangerous terrain test.

[Sir Biscuit]

It is important, however, to note that YES, the monolith can stand there. Skimmers and Jump infantry can jump anywhere, including impassible terrain, as long as the model can actually stand there. It does count as dangerous terrain, of course, but the option is there.

[Cyberscape7]

To consider how far a skimmer has moved when it has a horizontal AND vertical distance, you have to consider displacement(distance from starting point.Basically if it moves 12" horizontally and 5" vertically the total distance is 17" but the distance from the start is still 12". The same logic can be applied to any vehicle pivoting on the spot. Because it only turns around its total displacement is 0" so it technically hasnt moved. So to summarise, dont consider distance, consider displacement.

[Morai-Heg]

apart from the horizontal/vertical movement question (thanks for your exaustive replies about that) and back to the monolith:

do you all agree that that's a situation that requires a dangerous terrain test?

to me it seems obvious, but my gaming group says no. is there a general rule to find out if a skimmer needs to take a test (apart from standing in area/difficult terrain)?

[RocketRollRebel]

to me its a skimmer ending its movement in area/difficult terrain so a dangerous terrain test seems obvious to me.

[Necron_Lord]

I agree with most of what has been said.

a) Monoliths don't require a flying base (I never use one)

b) Skimmers can end their move anywhere (even on impassible terrain) if the model can stand upon it (see p. 71 of 40k rulebook)

c) Skimmers only have to take a dangerous terrain test for starting and ending their moves in difficult/impassible/dangerous terrain, they don't have to make a test for moving through dangerous terrain as they are flying above (and thus ignoring) the said terrain.

[Sir Biscuit]

To consider how far a skimmer has moved when it has a horizontal AND vertical distance, you have to consider displacement(distance from starting point.Basically if it moves 12" horizontally and 5" vertically the total distance is 17" but the distance from the start is still 12". The same logic can be applied to any vehicle pivoting on the spot. Because it only turns around its total displacement is 0" so it technically hasnt moved. So to summarise, dont consider distance, consider displacement.

No, just measure horizontally. That's how the game works. There's no movement cost for a skimmer to fly up or down.

[Nabterayl]

No, just measure horizontally. That's how the game works. There's no movement cost for a skimmer to fly up or down.
That's ... what Cyberscape7 said.

[Lerra]

The monolith does come with a flying base, and technically it should use that flying base, but the model is too big to be supported by such a dinky little piece of plastic. I very rarely see monoliths on the GW-supplied flying base, and most people don't have an issue because a little bit of height difference doesn't matter much for such a large model.

[Sir Biscuit]

That's ... what Cyberscape7 said.

Oh dang I really misread that. IGNORE WHAT I SAID I AM DUMB. D=

[DarkLink]

I will point out that if a skimmer moves 12" horizontally and 5 vertically, it really is moving 13", as it would probably just fly in a straight line to it's end point:p.

[tuffdart]

I made my own plugin flight stands, out of acrylic for my monoliths the same hight as the GW, useless stands. (think X's). Why go to the trouble? So I can shoot under them. Granted it gives a cover save but if Necrons aren't shooting (A LOT) then they're dead. Of course they're dead anyway.
Helpful with this TLoS stuff.

And yes the Mono can go anywhere, except whats deemed impassable but requires a DTT: 6" at a time. Skimmer rules are a big abstraction.