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View Full Version : Plasma Vs. Melta



crazyredpraetorian
07-27-2009, 03:20 PM
Do you favor melta or plasma? I like a mix of the two in vet squads.

Dosadi
07-27-2009, 03:51 PM
It really depends on their role.
Are you in a rhino or on foot? If on foot then the longer range of the plasma might be better.
In a Rhino, I'd say melta is better because of their greatness at tank hunting. But if you are going anti-MEQ then a pair of plasmas would have the potential to kill more.
Personally in my Red Corsair Chaos Marine army I take a squad of ten chaos marines with 2 meltas and an Aspiring Champ with a combi-melta. They are really good at popping land raiders and leman russes and can hold thier own against any counter charge (chaos marines being the best basic troop type in the game :cool:). But my other squad of chaos marines has a plasma and combi-plas in it (and an Autocannon if you need to know). they are foot sloggers and are usually for objective camping.

Also, what are vet squads? Are you talking about Sternguard? Then I wouldn't bother. The special issue ammo is pretty sweet on it's own and you can bloat the cost of a squad pretty fast by adding specials or combi weapons. If I were goin to take anything in Sternguard it would be a few combi-meltas just in case I have to pop a tank.


Dosadi

Jwolf
07-27-2009, 04:34 PM
It's hard to go wrong with Meltas. For IG, I only really like plasmaguns in command squads with medics.

Dosadi
07-27-2009, 08:14 PM
LOL...I compleatly missed that you were asking about guard vets.

Ya, meltas rock...:o


Dosadi

splnes
07-27-2009, 10:16 PM
meltas beat plasma hands down. all the plasma has is its longer range, so for 12 inches you loss a point of strength, not as good ap, and it gets hot. plus its not melta!

crazyredpraetorian
07-27-2009, 10:34 PM
meltas beat plasma hands down. all the plasma has is its longer range, so for 12 inches you loss a point of strength, not as good ap, and it gets hot. plus its not melta!


But at 12 inches you DO get twice the shots.

CrusherJoe
07-28-2009, 02:55 AM
But at 12 inches you DO get twice the shots.

Yeah, but that's also twice as many opportunities for the thing to get hot! ;)

splnes
07-28-2009, 08:26 AM
yeah i forgot about the rapid fire part of the plasma. but then you cant assault. I play a Blood Angels list so those are some words i never want to here, now in my bike army i think plasma will work out better.

crazyredpraetorian
07-28-2009, 09:44 AM
Yeah, but that's also twice as many opportunities for the thing to get hot! ;)

NO BALLS....NO BABIES.....It's a risk but, I like to gamble.

crazyredpraetorian
07-28-2009, 09:46 AM
yeah i forgot about the rapid fire part of the plasma. but then you cant assault. I play a Blood Angels list so those are some words i never want to here, now in my bike army i think plasma will work out better.



Yeah, I can see where it wouldn't be good in a BA army. I only used pasma pistols in my Space Wolf army. For special weapons, it was melta all the way.

Darkseer
07-28-2009, 10:40 AM
I think both weapons have their roles, but the plasma gun is certainly more versatile.

RealGenius
07-28-2009, 10:42 AM
I really like Plasma for my Marines in Drop pods. Sure melta is great for taking out a Land Raider, but often I land in the rear armor of a Leman Russ, and heck, I prefer the two shots at S7 to the one at S8 because I roll ones far too often.

Plus with Marines, plasma's disadvantages are mitigated somewhat by the better armor.

Darkseer
07-28-2009, 11:06 AM
Interesting. I was thinking of giving the drop pods squads in my Space Wolves army (http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/) melta guns to get the job done every time. After all a close range melta gun is going to burn through any tank better than a plasma gun will.

RealGenius
07-28-2009, 11:24 AM
After all a close range melta gun is going to burn through any tank better than a plasma gun will.

True, but I can't tell you how many times I've rolled a 1 to hit with the meltagun or 3 on 2D6 for penetration against Av12. Maybe my plasma guns are just "luckier". :)

mkerr
07-28-2009, 11:39 AM
It's hard to go wrong with Meltas. For IG, I only really like plasmaguns in command squads with medics.

Quoted for truth. You really can't beat meltas; the more the merrier.

GoatboyBOLS
07-28-2009, 12:09 PM
If you look at it - melta allows you to assault - to get the maximum benefits of Plasma - you need to be within 12 inches - which is usually the distance someone needs to assault you. So if you are using plasma to the fullest, someone is going to smack you back for using super heated death. Also with melta you can assault, thus adding more hits and more chances to cause wounds and kill the squad out.

Plus plasma costs a hell of a lot more. The extra 5 points really starts to take effect especially when you lose one guy to overheat.

Also mech is the king, and melta is the kind of killing mech. A plasma shot has a small chance of dealing with that rhino blocking your way, while a melta gun will make a nice creater most of the time.

The only time I like plasma is on plague marines, as the assault them scenario is fine as they take away the charging extra attack. Mix that with a tough butt and you got an annoying unit that can use plasma to the fullest and still not get boned by being assaulted etc.

iamaddj
07-28-2009, 02:15 PM
I think it really depends on the rest of your army. If you have a lot of anti-tank weapons on your own tanks or in special squads then you don't really need the melta, Plasma is always better at killing infantry. If however you don't have a lot of anti-tank in your other units and are relying on infantry to kill tanks, then you will need some melta in your troops. While I think in general I have gotten more use out of Melta in 5th, plasmas still have a good place.

In a guard army there is nothing quite like rolling up with a couple of command (Company or Platoon) squads armed with plasmas and dumping 16+ plasma shots into the enemies prime assault unit. The number or time I have made problems go away with massed plasma-gun fire (in a way only the IG can really do) has made me a big fan of Plasma. In Guard at least.

RealGenius
07-28-2009, 02:52 PM
If you look at it - melta allows you to assault - to get the maximum benefits of Plasma - you need to be within 12 inches - which is usually the distance someone needs to assault you.

It all depends on how you are using it, like the Walrus mentioned. Coming out of a drop pod you can't assault anyway and you'll probably get killed the next turn, so would you want one shot or two? Thanks plasma, you get to ride with me.

Paul
07-28-2009, 08:05 PM
I prefer plasma.

I actually don't have that much dedicated Anti-Tank in my armored co., but I do have many dual purpose guns such as Battlecannons (not great against AV14 but great against any other tank) and some lascannons. If I'm not playing an army that takes a billionty five land raiders, I have a Vanquisher and two Russes all with lascannons. Along with the Demolisher, et al. So my army is pretty set against tanks.

That said, sometimes I do regret it when my poor plasmagunner self-immolates. But then I feel less bad when the enemy is out of assault range because of it...lol.

splnes
07-29-2009, 05:29 AM
see i'm not a fan of plasma rifles, pistols on the other hands i would trade out any day. bolt for plasma? yeah no-brainer! but the best use of the plasma in the game has to be in the hands of obilts!!

CrusherJoe
07-29-2009, 06:24 AM
see i'm not a fan of plasma rifles, pistols on the other hands i would trade out any day. bolt for plasma? yeah no-brainer! but the best use of the plasma in the game has to be in the hands of obilts!!

Well, yeah.

In the hands of oblits, plasma is...





...waaaait for it...





...2 oblit 2 quit!

(sorry!)

RealGenius
07-29-2009, 07:53 AM
...2 oblit 2 quit!
(sorry!)


Gah! My morning is ruined. That song will be stuck in my head all day.

Although I am waiting for someone to product the YouTube with Obliterators in Hammer pants.

crazyredpraetorian
07-29-2009, 09:26 AM
You people are ......SICK! Now, I have the song and THAT image in my head!

RealGenius
07-29-2009, 09:41 AM
C'mon, dancing Obliterators is epic.

crazyredpraetorian
07-29-2009, 12:13 PM
So, is Street Wise Sally.....But, I try to keep her out of my head, too.

bullymike
07-29-2009, 10:32 PM
It's hard to go wrong with Meltas. For IG, I only really like plasmaguns in command squads with medics.

ditto

chachi
07-31-2009, 11:36 AM
I like to equip 2 troops in a Chaos Raptors squad with Meltas and equip 2 troops in a Plague Marine squad with Plasma for rapid fire (and Feel No Pain to help alleviate any Gets Hot rolls)...

Farsight
07-31-2009, 11:36 AM
But at 12 inches you DO get twice the shots.

And that's is exactly what I want if a Canifex in about to run down my storm troopers.

npullan
07-31-2009, 11:44 AM
But with IGs ability to take Lascannons like they're going out of style AND the bring it down order, how in hell does a Carnifex get within 12?

miksaa
07-31-2009, 11:59 AM
Do not forget that melta have a great ability in instant killing toughness four models.

On the down side; meltas only have one shoot, but during two turns the melta would be better as it allows you to assault also. Hard to say what would be best thou; but with the new damage table to vehicles I really like the higher chance of penetrating and the plus one on the damage roll due too it being AP1.

FrostReaver
07-31-2009, 12:19 PM
It really depends on the army for me. If I'm using the BA, I stay away from any rapid fire weaponry of any type, so plasma is out. However, I use plasma extensively in my IG army, usually with a plasma gun in every infantry squad I run.
The way I see it, it has a longer overall range than melta, so if I include a heavy weapon in the squad it allows it more turns of shooting before the enemy gets to me than a melta would. If I don't include a hvy wpn, then the melta still isn't a great choice, as the rest of the squad has rapid fire weapons as well, so if any of them shoot I don't get a charge anyway.

Wildeyedjester
07-31-2009, 12:58 PM
With my guard I have enough fire power to bring down monstrous creatures. What gives me problems is the landraider spam lists... even worse if they have lysander and th termies in them....

I take melta any day of the week.

crazyredpraetorian
07-31-2009, 01:01 PM
What did Crusher Joe call it last night.....oh yeah, the mista-gun. A Blood Angel with a meltagun missed twice at 3 inches.

wash-away
07-31-2009, 01:12 PM
on my marines i use melta because i have tougher stuff to kill MC's and other baddy's. however with vets i might say plasma because you can depstrike and get a ton of st 7 ap2 shots off on an ususpecting unit in adition to your Hellguns (wich are why you cost so much)

with melta if you come down you have to hit something really big to get your points back and even then your most likely dead next turn.

if their holding an objective they've got range, and if they deepstrike you can double tap. plasma ftw.

Oldgrue
07-31-2009, 01:19 PM
If you're running a Valkyrie Drop list, there's no reason to give the Vets Plasma. Their job should be to kill things in the opponent's back field rather than be a hit squad for marine equivalents. Everything without a Meltagun or Meltabomb is an ablative wound.Plasma is a cute concept but with 1/3 of your misses with that weapon having a fair chance to kill the wielder its pretty hard to justify having one - the only time its reliable is when a Commissar executes his own people!

wash-away
07-31-2009, 01:28 PM
but your waisting your hellgun shots if you shoot 2 melta's at a tank. those ap3 flashlights are what make you 170 pts not 100. if you put 2 plasma guns in w/ heavy flamer in a valk your shooting a lot more firepower and you can bring all your guns to bear. guard have a ton of other ways to kill armour without the vets having to do it. not to mention the ordanance missles on the valk itself. it kills the tank and they kill whatever comes out.

FireChild
07-31-2009, 02:34 PM
Melta is prime for the edition of rediculous amounts of mech, ive never missed my precious plasma from last edition, even though its much easier for plasma to live I find the benefits of melta far outwiegh plasma, heres why.

-Melta is far superior at punching armor in my opinion
-plasmas main advantage in my eyes vs troops is the ap2 but since the one thing i fear at that armor value is now invulnerable save 3+ i would rather just bolter the assault terminators to death.
- For me I run vulcan so obvious advantages there but even without him my first and second points stand.
-lastly to defend plasma abit I do like the mass shot str 7 against low armor transports but i find that even though I effect vehicles by glancing more often i find that if I reach the chart, and thats a big if, I only have a roughly 33% chance to kill the tank as opposed to 50%, thats huge in my opinion.

I stipulate that these are all from my play experience and any counter arguments will be well recieved as I love hearing from fellow players. :cool:

Maxtermynd
07-31-2009, 03:50 PM
In my play group there are tons of hungry MCs wandering around, so a plasma death command squad is a must for my IG army. Nothing like taking out a 'Fex or Tyrant with one turn of one squad's shooting... though I have to say that I prefer the 4 guns as opposed to 3 and a medic. BID handles most of the 1s and carapace armor handles the rest without taking away any of my shots. And if one of my troopers dies while shooting... doesn't matter. They've done their damage already.

But for smaller groups of troops/those without ready access to BID, melta is definitely the way to go. Especially for highly mobile troops that you can quickly get into the midst of the enemy's lines. 5 stormtroopers with 2 melta and a plasma pistol is a very deadly combination, especially with the prevalence of mech these days.

I guess my feeling is that in smaller numbers, meltas>plasma as 1 hit is often all it takes to take down any vehicle. But when you have a large number of plasma guns concentrated in one unit their value increases dramatically as they are able to either wipe out or severely wound whatever they fire at.

Oldgrue
07-31-2009, 04:04 PM
but your waisting your hellgun shots if you shoot 2 melta's at a tank. .

wasting my hellguns..The IG excel at forcing the enemy to take ridiculous numbers of armor saves, rather than crack open heavily armored troops with accurate AP weapons. The idea of wasting hellguns because 3 meltaguns are burning a nice neat hole in their tank of choice would be a genuine concern if I could shoot at two squads, or these were Space marines with their nice toughness and armor saves rather than veterans, or I didn't have a troops choice that outnumbers a squad of marines 2 to 1 for the points to force unholy numbers of saves. For 185 points I can deliver a few less lasguns, but go up to 6 S7 and 4 s6 hits as well - saving 45 points on those veterans' plasma and heavy flamer.

Guard have *lots* of ways to kill armor. Pop and Drop is one of the Best, as much as i Hate it. Sentinels are nice, and an artillery battery can do wonders, but neither can do all the things vet/valk can. The hellstrikes are to me an afterthought. One Shot BS3....its a big hunter killer missile and less reliable than the veterans.

Aristus
07-31-2009, 04:10 PM
I would say plasma guns as you are bound to overheat at the worst moments possible.
I mean, there's nothing compared to the sight of melting guardsmen.

Oldgrue
07-31-2009, 04:17 PM
I would say plasma guns as you are bound to overheat at the worst moments possible.
..yet never when the Commissar is getting cranky...:(

Aristus
07-31-2009, 04:24 PM
True commisars do always ruin fun things.

crazyredpraetorian
07-31-2009, 04:26 PM
I would say plasma guns as you are bound to overheat at the worst moments possible.
I mean, there's nothing compared to the sight of melting guardsmen.

.......or as funny!!!

Weekend Democracy
07-31-2009, 04:31 PM
I'm running both these days. I run two squads of five Plague Marines with dual Plas and two squads of five Plague Marines in Rhinos with meltas. Plasma is great with FnP.

Aristus
07-31-2009, 04:39 PM
Yes i do have to agree that plague marines uses their plasmas wisely, but they will never beat exploding guardsmen with a commisar watching.

GPrime
07-31-2009, 05:13 PM
I only go Plasma for Company Command Sqauds due to having a medic for "feel no pain"(FNP).

5+ armor and 4+ FNP is way better to counter the "Gets Hot" rolls than carapace IMO.

I go Melta on the vets as it has a nice synergy with "demolitions" getting melta bombs for the whole squad. The demo charge is just a bonus.

The meltas are also assault weapons, so it works well with shotguns as a counter assault unit. Especially when some big nasty unit deep strikes/outflanks into your gunline.

MUMBLES
08-01-2009, 12:05 AM
One of the hardest things for me to get over was the 5pt upcharge on plasma, when they seem roughly equal. You trade off assault for rapid fire, melta for double shot, etc. Why 15 for plasma and 10 for melta?

ebolus
08-01-2009, 02:48 AM
My Plague Marines said good bye to plasmas half a year ago. My guys are offensive thinking, so I need assault weapons. And with meltas I can never go wrong (In larger games I have a squad or two with flamers as well).
If my style of play were to always sit back (on objectives) then plasmas probably would work.

Lord Sandwich
08-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Well, coming from a Marine standpoint, melta is pretty much the best period.

Why?

If we look at it in a different perspective, which one would be best on a combi-weapon? The melta, because a pair of plasma shots is worth maybe a dead Marine or two, whereas a melta to the back armor of a tank is worth a dead tank. So, applying the knowledge that melta is better than plasma on a turn-by-turn basis, it's pretty clear which one is the best. Granted, a plasma gun may have longer range, and thus get a couple of extra shots, but for necessity in 5th Ed for tank busting, and the improved AP1, makes melta my choice weapon. Behind flamers of course.

DevilUknow
08-02-2009, 03:01 PM
I'd say melta beats plasma 9 times out of 10, especially with the amount of mech you see, but plasma becomes more an more attractive the more you can mass in one place.

This is an extreme example, and I'm sure some mathhammer tourny champ will sneer but you could have 4 plasma guns in a command squad (!). You'll be reliably killing large armounts of pretty much anything but 2+ armour saves and probably at least glancing most transports out ther. Combine that with Feel No Pain and you don't really have to worry about Gets Hot.

Granted the further you're shooting, the more likely cover saves will ruin your fun, but thats no different from meltas at that point.

Xas
08-03-2009, 07:36 PM
for marines its clear as cake for me:
melta FTW. you can only have 1(2) special weapon and for melterguns one hit basically is enough.


for guards I like plasma more. main reason is that you can have 3 plasmaguns and 1 pistol @BS4 on a troop choice that can either be ariborn or shooting from a chimeara's hatch. afraid people buy a 4+ armor save and be done. additionally range is a hughe advantage if you jsut sit and shoot.

the range thing is the problem that guard-meltaguns have. where a marine squad has easy access to accurate deepstriking and survive beeing shot up in the open usually quite well the guards' deepstrikers are expensive (stormtroopers, only TWO special weapons for them!) and usually quite dead.

for anti-tank as guard I really prefer a Pasked Vanquisher /w hulllas and/or masses of lascannons with orders or on vendettas. they can kill tanks on turn one which is the turn that matters if you want to stop a landraider (and deepstrikers arrive at soonest turn2!) because once it has made its 12" move and fired smoke it basically did its job.

Grimgore
08-07-2009, 03:27 PM
i switched out the plasma guns for meltas in my CSM squads, cheaper points and lets the unit assault afterwards. so far i'm feeling the meltas make my squad more versatile on the field without giving up any tank busting power.

Vulkan He'stan
08-09-2009, 01:00 PM
plasma scares me i dont want it to blow up in my face. so i likz meltaz:D

Kloud
08-09-2009, 01:36 PM
If you have Marines coming down from a Drop Pod. You should not use Plasma, or Melta. Should really use a Flamer.

Aim your Pod close to an enemy unit. and the Flamer should hit 8 - 9 guys. Even Termies will likely take 1 or 2 wounds from a well placed Flamer template.

Give the Sgt. a Combi-Melta in case you decide to aim your Drop Pod at enemy tank instead.

I do however always give the Drop Podded Tac Squad a Multi-Melta.

BuFFo
08-09-2009, 02:37 PM
Meltas are just better in just about any situation.

The only Plasma I like is the Plasma Cannon.

Chaos
08-11-2009, 11:01 AM
I like using a lot of plasmas against tyranids to kill the big stuff but i really prefer meltas because they're better against vehicles

Tarion
08-11-2009, 11:15 AM
One of the hardest things for me to get over was the 5pt upcharge on plasma, when they seem roughly equal. You trade off assault for rapid fire, melta for double shot, etc. Why 15 for plasma and 10 for melta?

Because Plasma was the default choice in 4th edition. And 3rd. GW worked out if the players will always take it, then it has to be better than the other similarly priced options.

IMO, they took it too far. Bumping up its price while making cover saves easy to claim, and you just don't look to it for anti-MEQ any more.

Emperorsmercy
08-11-2009, 11:36 AM
I reckon Plasma Pistols are quite useful for a unit that isn't designed for Tank hunting, or isnt expecting anything like that. Its an 'emergency weapon'. Meltas are good for Tank hunting specialists.

azekio
08-11-2009, 06:48 PM
i run a unit of tzeentch chosen with 3 plas and a h bolter. works for me. infiltrate, move, unleash, wait, unleash again with hb as well. tears up infantry

Dwarflord17404
08-11-2009, 09:26 PM
Plasma pistols are aweful. Plasma rifles I think when everyone gets over melta gun fever and the space puppies have a turn 2 assault with out mech you will learn to appreciate plasma. I think a guard infantry paltoon squads with autocann/ plasma is an awesome build becaus it enables you to pop transports/ monsterous creatures which is key to protecting the firebase. So I still think plasma has its uses but for vets you can't beat 3 melta guns mounted in a chimera which never get out until their ride explodes. they just need support. In conclusion I think that eventualy some one is going to find a list that isn't completly mech that is tournement viable and then we are going to have reconvert our melta gunners back into plasma gunners. will the circle be unbroken?

RocketRollRebel
08-12-2009, 02:55 AM
I'd say melta all the way. The only army that I would use plasma in is my Imperial Guard but even then I only trust veterans or HQ command squads with them since they carry a hefty price tag and I dont trust my bs3 boys with them.

Meltas are excellent armor destroyers
Cheaper than plasma
S8 means instant death for most multi wound models
Assault weapon means you zap a guy or a tank and then go charging in! Whats not to love! haha

The only down side to meltas is that because of the short range I feel that the unit that is using them needs a transport or to be infiltrating/outflanking/have jump packs in order for them truly effective.

Glocknal
08-12-2009, 10:19 AM
With the preponderance of cheap, safe transportation these days, melta is king. Plasma guns do have a niche role, i.e. shooty, poor assualt units with decent armor saves. For vets I'd say go 3 meltas, if you want ap2, grab demolitions and get a demo charge and melta bombs for only 15pts more and no chance of "gets hot".

avatar8481
08-13-2009, 10:54 AM
With the preponderance of cheap, safe transportation these days, melta is king. Plasma guns do have a niche role, i.e. shooty, poor assualt units with decent armor saves. For vets I'd say go 3 meltas, if you want ap2, grab demolitions and get a demo charge and melta bombs for only 15pts more and no chance of "gets hot".

you realize ap1 is better than ap2 right, why would you ever take plasma?

Glocknal
08-13-2009, 11:21 AM
I do realize, plasma offers better range, and rapid fire at short range. It is a better anti-heavy infantry weapon, with glaring drawbacks. I suggested the democharge because it gives you a pieplate ap2 blast, and high strengthm which covers the same role of plasma guns.

Oldgrue
08-13-2009, 02:28 PM
Hm,demo charge.
Large blast. Check
High strength. Check
Low AP. Check
BS 3. Check.

So I can deviate an average of 4 inches in any direction, which not so comedically might just include that example of the Emperor's best and brightest who instead dropped it on his own feet and killed the squad. Demo charges aren't really a spectacular idea.


edit- making the incorrectly plural singular, and vice versa

A HUGE BLUNT
08-13-2009, 03:17 PM
i play chaos marines and if everyone ran more plasma over melta i'd win a lot more games

Chaosgerbil
08-16-2009, 02:27 AM
Both plasma and melta are good against heavy infantry... but plasma is only good against light vehicles, while melta can take down anything. It can also insta-kill T4 characters and nobs. Melta is cheaper (for no good reason) and doesn't have a chance to misfire and kill you. I might put in a couple plasma guns on plague marines but that would be it.

Chaosgerbil
08-16-2009, 02:28 AM
Marbo is better at hucking his bomb at people with a BS of 5. I'd say if you want a demo charge take him.

Virtuous
08-16-2009, 04:08 PM
Melta for sure, its cheap and can always be put to good use. whereas against hordes, plasma weapons are points that could be spent on twice as many heavy bolters or autocannons

Yhcrana
08-16-2009, 06:12 PM
I like taking 1 CCS squad with 4 plasma gunners and a plasma pistol mounted in a chimera.
They can all fire out the top hatches and if they really need to guarantee the kill they can get out and use BID.
The rest of my squads use melta. Especially if they are aircav.

Bauglir
08-17-2009, 01:49 AM
Plasmaguns are great in the hands of Veteran Guardsmen in a Chimera. 3 Plasmaguns shooting out of a chimera = a fantastic counter against nasties such as:
1) Those ten chaos space marines that just spilled out of the Rhino you cracked
2) The Deamon Prince (or princeS) that just flew into your deployment zone
3) The Wingrant. Or the lone Carnifex who survived to reach your lines
4) Heck, even the infiltrating ork kommandoes are more afraid of plasmaguns than meltaguns.

In my IG mech list, I use two Chimera-mounted command squads with 3x meltas and two Chimera-mounted veterans with 3x plasma. Afer all, it's a limit on how many meltaguns you really need.

If I played 'marines (Imperial or Chaotic), I guess I would rather go for meltas. But as a guardsmen I can spam special weapons and thus choose the best option; a combination of both.

Spartan
08-17-2009, 02:11 PM
In my experience plasmaguns are as lethal to my poor guardsman firing it as it is to the the target! I`m not kidding and seriously think I have a 50/50 rate of "gets hot" fatalities... Planning to ditch the weapon altogether :(

A medic is also very expensive, but I see folk using mounted command squads with plasmaguns along with a medic. Is it really worth it?

Glocknal
08-17-2009, 02:27 PM
LOL, I think every 40k forum has a post like this. Melta are more useful weapons, as the plasma gun has some potent drawbacks. Plasma is not a bad weapon however. Nuff said.

Javin
08-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Wouldn't the command squads be better for plasma as they can get 4+ armor and feel no pain? You chances of killing yourself is greatly reduced and you have your anti- all things but av 14 group.

pacopaco
08-21-2009, 09:07 PM
Plasma: Longer range and more entertaining...'nuff said.

imperialsavant
08-21-2009, 10:09 PM
Do you favor melta or plasma? I like a mix of the two in vet squads.

:) Well my take would be it depended if you went "Tank Hunting" or Troop Hunting.

You also need to consider who is using the Plasma as even Marines can fall victim to Plasma Overheat whilst Guard will almost certainly die!

Plasma Cannon Blasts are great against Hord Armies like IG, Orks & 'nids especially if you are BS4.

Meltas especially Multi Meltas are great Anti Tank weapons & will come into their own Vs Bastions in Planetstrike. Anyway just my HO.

Shas'O D'Narb
08-22-2009, 11:17 PM
Do you favor melta or plasma? I like a mix of the two in vet squads.
For Tau crisis suits, both! Helios suits, I think they're called... anyway, three of those suits sure melt away marines (and anything else, for that matter). *If* I had to choose one or the other, I think the plasma range and rapid firing (particularly when on a relentless firing platform) is just exceptional, particularly when my army doesn't melt/explode/whatever when they roll 1s.

Katie Drake
08-22-2009, 11:59 PM
Wouldn't the command squads be better for plasma as they can get 4+ armor and feel no pain? You chances of killing yourself is greatly reduced and you have your anti- all things but av 14 group.

Yeah, but it's grotesquely expensive. One's better off just relying on their normal 5+ armor save and Feel No Pain as the additional points that need to be spent to get the 4+ armor save is too much. For the points of carapace armor, you can buy a medic for another squad.

terminus
08-23-2009, 02:44 PM
Hm,demo charge.
Large blast. Check
High strength. Check
Low AP. Check
BS 3. Check.

So I can deviate an average of 4 inches in any direction, which not so comedically might just include that example of the Emperor's best and brightest who instead dropped it on his own feet and killed the squad. Demo charges aren't really a spectacular idea.


edit- making the incorrectly plural singular, and vice versa

Well, the veterans in question are BS4, and probably in a chimera. An average deviation of 3" directly back towards them at the demo charge's maximum range won't even have the blast reaching the chimera (and if it does, it glances on a 6). Even if you scatter directly on the chimera, it still needs a 5 or 6 to penetrate. In any case, the squad should be just fine. For every bad scatter there's a good one, plus the chance to simply roll a hit.

As for plasma command squads, if you're firing 4 plasma guns, the chance to NOT roll a '1' is only 48%. If you're rapid firing the same number of plasma guns (i.e. 8 shots), that chance drops to only 23%. Flak armor will save you 33% of the time, carapace will save you 50% of the time, flak+FNP will save you 66% of the time, and carapace+FNP will keep you safe 75% of the time.

Bring it Down will prevent most '1's, but won't avail you against infantry. On the other hand, Fire On My Target does help mitigate any cover saves. However, either order means they have to be outside of their transport, and it's just a squad of 5 guardsmen. So combining the fact that every dead plasmagunner means you've lost ~22 points, and the need to keep this small vulnerable unit in the open to get the most use out of it, means the medic is almost mandatory. Of course, the medic costs twice as much as a plasmagun, and takes up a special weapons slot.

Given the cost of a medic/plasma squad, you could buy two armored sentinels with plasma cannons. Throw in a chimera, and you're talking LRBT with plasma sponsons.

Jiggs
08-25-2009, 08:09 PM
melta.... because their awesome and they count as twin-linked for me "I play salamanders" and plasma guns always blow up on me, for some reason when ever I shoot one I roll a 1 so I don't take them to often any more.

TheKingElessar
08-25-2009, 08:13 PM
IMO, only Guard (with very little good opportunity) and Plague Marines should EVER carry plasma in 5th. Anything else is FAIL.

Spartan
08-29-2009, 11:20 AM
Fail?

TheKingElessar
08-29-2009, 05:30 PM
Oh, your Norwegian. lol

Saying something is Fail is a popular recent reinterpretation of saying something does fail, as in, isn't successful. If I take a penalty and the goalkeeper saves it, I fail to score...saying something is Fail is just a shorter method really. :)

EmperorEternalXIX
08-29-2009, 05:40 PM
It's true. Plasma is so dangerous, even now, and in MEQ armies having the weapon that is a little worse than melta strength-wise but gives two shots isn't worth the possibility of killing your pathetic 2-wound Librarian or your expensive Sternguard, or your ~40 point Devastator with plasma cannon.

I'd rather just have one shot with no chance of killing my own dudes, personally. Which is lame, because I used to love plasma. Then again I use a codex where they don't let you have two special weapons in one squad because it would be too 'overpowered' so I am a little biased (especially as I watch Plague Marines and Imperial Guard veterans shred people each week with more firepower than my entire allotment of troops).

entendre_entendre
08-29-2009, 09:27 PM
meltafuns FTW

Slann
08-30-2009, 12:05 PM
They both do there thing , with the new rapid fire plasma rule only over heating on ones all the time made the plasma gun a lot better , I take one squad of vets with 3 plas and a demo charge this squad hides in a transport and kills whatever threatens my lines or last turn swoops in and kills that marine squad stealing the objective .

Melta does rock as well for hitting vehicles they both have there roll .

You can say plas sucks all you want but when that land raider rolls up with 8 khorn termies its nice to simply melt them with plasma next turn .

Rahakanji
09-01-2009, 12:35 PM
I play 2Vets with 3Melter, and demo charge... effektiv versus all units, MElta=anittank, Demo=AntiHeavy Infantrie, Laserguns=Antiinfantrie

Duke
09-01-2009, 02:50 PM
I haven't read all the pages so forgive me if I repeat something from someone else.

I go with Melta, current lists have a lot of Mech and Plasma is only sub standard against mech. I have very few times where I regreat spamming meltas... If ever.

Duke

Boys in Blue
09-01-2009, 03:25 PM
Just building my first IG army list... I like both weapons but not mixed in the same squad. I look to have a Squad with plas and another squad with meltas. The weapons really have different purposes (killing MEQ and Termies vs killing vehicles) so mixing them seems to weaken overall effect.

islyfe
09-01-2009, 03:36 PM
Melta's 2d6 armour pen and +1 to damge chart is just too good to pass up

mutantpoo
09-01-2009, 06:45 PM
But what about the Tau plasma rifle vs melta ?;)

John Connah
09-01-2009, 07:34 PM
If you roll dice like I do it's melta all the way :P

Arc
09-02-2009, 01:09 AM
As you can assault after melting an enemy trooper I prefer them to melting my own guys. :D

WalkableBuffalo
09-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Plasma weapons look cooler, sound cooler, it also shoots 24 inches, which is twice as far as a melta gun, and for the loss of 1 attack you gain a 1 AP, it also has rapid fire and the plasma cannon shoots 36 inches instead of a multi melta's 24 inch range.
Not to dis the melta gun of course.

slopike
09-02-2009, 01:31 AM
Even though you have to be close to use the melta, I do like the extra armor penetration, not melting my own guy, and assaulting whatever pops out of those juicy transports:).

Johan
09-02-2009, 06:36 AM
I use combinations in my sm bike army, mm attack bike with plasma on the normal marine. Best of both worlds and relentless.

mercer
09-02-2009, 06:41 AM
Melta for me, I always seem to roll 1's for gets hot and fail my armour save :( .

Plasma is annoying against heavy infantry, though melta is a nasty one shot business and wrecks tanks. With mech armies been to hot at the moment melta is the way forward. Doesn't have the firing range or compacity of plasma weapons, but does the same damage to infantry :)

pig of sparta
09-02-2009, 06:51 AM
From experience, I'd say melta over plasma. Purely because the drawbacks of short range and only one shot are outweighed (in my opinion) by actually being able to (almost) guarantee a kill. Against T4 or higher Armour values, plasma doesn't really make a dent.

TheKingElessar
09-02-2009, 07:17 AM
They BOTH wound T4 on 2+.

mercer
09-02-2009, 07:37 AM
I was going to say that, and T5 as well.

Magos Bellum
09-17-2009, 06:36 PM
Plasma doesn't instant-kill T4 and T5 though, where melta weapons do a great job of eliminating things like MEQ characters (without Eternal Warrior) and Tau Battlesuits among other things.

SandWyrm
09-21-2009, 02:31 PM
And that's is exactly what I want if a Canifex in about to run down my storm troopers.

Hehe, which is why I give one mounted vet squad Plasma in my Mech IG List. So they can sit on my objective or in my backfield and put the hurt on deep strikers and/or MCs. Every other mounted vet squad will be close enough to the enemy and each other to kill with Meltas alone.

I will agree that plasma is much less important than it used to be. But it does still have it's uses.

EmperorEternalXIX
09-22-2009, 03:43 AM
As far as the new SM dex goes, it really doesn't. All in all, the model count is so low that every marine is precious, and doing things with a very slight offensive advantage that endangers the marine (or indeed, a 25 point sternguard, even) is just ill-advised.