Chaos Daemons Vs Tyranids - Thoughts?

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

This is reposted from the General 40K section. Thanks to original posters, some great ideas.

At the end of August, I shall be facing a Tyranid horde of over 4000 points with a combined Chaos Marine/Daemon army. I have been advised that my opponent is likely to bring the Swarmlord alongside Tervigons, no doubt with stealers, Gaunts, Gants, Lictors, Gargoyles and the like. I've researched into this and seen advice given to concentrate on wiping out the swarms first and foremost, so I've tried to include as much template weapons as possible, alongside as much firepower as my army list will allow. Below is my army list. I'm looking for tactics in taking out the Swarmlord, Tervigon and neautralising outflanking Stealers, plus likely make-up of his army and tactics I need to look out for. All comments welcome!

The Unclean Pact of Typhus and Ku’Gath

Typhus
Plagueguard Terminators – 1xHeavy Flamer
2xTwin Bolter and Power Weapon
1xCombi Melta and Chainfist
1xReaper Autocannon and Powerfist

Plague Marine Squad One – Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon, 2 Bolter, 2 Plasma Gun, Icon

Plague Marine Squad Two - Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon, 2 Bolter, 2 Plasma Gun, Icon

Plague Marine Squad Three - Aspiring Champion with Power Fist, 2 Bolter, 2 Plasma Gun, Icon

Plague Marine Squad Four - Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon, 2 Melta Guns, 2 Bolters, Icon

2 Chaos Rhino

Defiler – Havoc Launcher, Reaper Autocannon, Battlecannon

Vindicator with Daemonic Possession



Ku’Gath the Plaguefather

Unzuul the Lascivious – Keeper of Secrets; Soporific Musk, Pavane of Slaanesh, Daemonic Gaze, Unholy Might, Aura of Acquiescence

Skulltaker and 20 Bloodletters

Epidemius and 14 Plaguebearers

6 Flamers with Bolt of Tzeentch

6 Flamers with Bolt of Tzeentch
Daemon Prince of Nurgle O’Whenzhai – Mark of Nurgle, Noxious Touch, Iron Hide, Breath of Chaos, Unholy Might

Soul Grinder – Phlegm and Tongue Attacks

10 Pink Horrors with the Changeling

10 Pink Horrors

10 Seekers of Slaanesh

7 bases of Nurglings

[Feighan-Raask]

Not sure what was in original post but for my money Skulltaker would be your best bet against the swarmlord. His rending attacks (on a 4+ not 6+) cause instant death and as far as i'm aware the Swarmlord isn't immune to instant death.

[Connjurus]

If you're fighting Tyranid, why did you take Tongue instead of Vomit?

Also, I'd replace the combi-melta with a combi-flamer on the plagueguard Terminator.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Not sure what was in original post but for my money Skulltaker would be your best bet against the swarmlord. His rending attacks (on a 4+ not 6+) cause instant death and as far as i'm aware the Swarmlord isn't immune to instant death.

Hmmm...this possibility intrigues me...it wouldn't be a massive shame should he get beaten either...YOU ARE GENIUS!!!!!!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

If you're fighting Tyranid, why did you take Tongue instead of Vomit?

Also, I'd replace the combi-melta with a combi-flamer on the plagueguard Terminator.


Yeah, Soul Grinders all come with the Vomit attack as standard. Will change the combi-melta though

[Connjurus]

Yeah, Soul Grinders all come with the Vomit attack as standard. Will change the combi-melta though

Oh, that's right. Silly me. :p Also, why the chainfist? Seems like you could take that off and get two more combi-flamers for deep-striking template doom.

Also, the havoc-launcher/reaper-AC, while good in theory, really isn't worth it since the defiler has to choose whether to fire those two weapons OR the Battle Cannon, per 5th edition rules. You could save points to spend elsewhere by giving it two extra dreadnought arms - which is really good, seeing as how CC is where the Defiler excels anyway.

Another great addition to this army would be the Masque - clumping together those big hordes will do wonders for the effectiveness of your templates. Not just that, but I:7 rending attacks on a model with a 3++? She's an excellent addition to any Daemon army, especially for her points.

Also, reading through your list again, you need to put five more Terminators in the squad if you want to put both a Reaper-AC AND a Heavy Flamer in there, since the squad has to number ten models to have two heavy weapons.

Other than that, looks a like a solid list - not a fan of Plaguemarines on their own, but in a battle like this, with Epidemius? Oh yeah. Definitely a must.

Tell me how it goes! Always great to see another Chaos player. :)

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I will keep you posted - it's not until the end of August though, I like to plan ahead. I was under the impression you could fire all the weapons on a Defiler if it's stationary, like other vehicles? Bummer. Thing is, I wanted the Defiler to lay some tasty firepower out to take out swarms of gaunts etc, which the Battle Cannon and Havoc launcher can do. Bear in mind that points aren't really a consideration here - we could probably go up to 4500.
Mostly I've chosen what is actually modelled on the miniatures, hence the chainfist (which I guess is useless against Tyranids really) - my Chaos marines are pretty old and tired now in all fairness. Good spot on the Terminators. Think I'll just not mention it, it's a 5 point upgrade, plus we're ignoring a fair few other things for the sake of narrative.
I do like the Masque, but I think I have to go with Epidemius and Skulltaker as an HQ choice - I've used one slot from the Chaos Marine allowance as a daemon HQ, but I don't wanna push my luck with another half! She would be really useful though...

[Connjurus]

Oh, it's not an apocalypse battle? Well damn. :p

And I know how that goes with what's on your models...gah, why I decided that a heavy flamer would be worth it on a Khornate Champ Term squad I'll never know...

Also, 'fraid not about the Ordnance weapons. :P On page 58 of rulebook it says, "Firing a massive ordnance weapon requires the attention of all the gunners of the vehicle, so no other weapons may be fired that turn". Pretty dumb, I know. :/ It's one of the reasons Necron players cry about their Monoliths. Not able to Particle Whip and Flux Arc at the same time.

[DrLove42]

Careful with the skull taker. In the squad he should be safer, but everytime i've played against him hes been torn apart by gunfire before he gets into combat.

If he takes the baby burping Nid (can't remember its name) deep strike the flamers onto him. Poisoned attacks (or the equivilent) hurt MC.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Careful with the skull taker. In the squad he should be safer, but everytime i've played against him hes been torn apart by gunfire before he gets into combat.

If he takes the baby burping Nid (can't remember its name) deep strike the flamers onto him. Poisoned attacks (or the equivilent) hurt MC.

Good points. I'm hoping to use some Nurglings to tie up anything shooty between Skulltaker's Bloodletter horde and his Swarmlord cadre, or shield their deepstrike with the rhino, should they survive. Any ideas welcome.
I've been told that he'll definitely bring Tervigons, so the Flamers are a good idea. However, I was thinking of deepstriking all the flamers in an attempt to take out the Swarmlord - I guess I will just have to see which opportunity presents itself first really. I know the primary threats will be the swarms of gaunts/gants and genestealers, which he's bound to take bundles of and infiltrate, so I need to hit them hard with shooting. Thinking about it though, the Flamers are gonna be tré important when it comes to getting them out the picture early on. Swarmlord can be contained with unimportant troops until I'm ready for him I guess!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Also, 'fraid not about the Ordnance weapons. :P On page 58 of rulebook it says, "Firing a massive ordnance weapon requires the attention of all the gunners of the vehicle, so no other weapons may be fired that turn". Pretty dumb, I know. :/ It's one of the reasons Necron players cry about their Monoliths. Not able to Particle Whip and Flux Arc at the same time.

This indeed sucks:eek:. I think you're probably gonna be right on the money about that then! Grr! Still, gotta have that battle cannon!

[Connjurus]

Yeah. Also, you MIGHT have to remain stationary to fire it. It says in the rules that you're supposed to, but it also says that walkers can move and fire their weapons as though they were stationary, so I think you can move and shoot the Battle Cannon.

Also, don't worry too much about the Swarmlord. He's a definite beast in CC, but he doesn't have an invulnerable save out of it. ;) Check the rules. He only gets that 4++ in CC.

[SombreBrotherhood]

Although most demon players (myself included) go for high-risk high-gain deep strikes with your units of flamers, keep in mind that they're jump troops, so it may be worthwhile to have them DS in away from the creeping swarm, then maneuver themselves to a good firing location, esp. if there's some LOS-blocking terrain on your board.

[Leez]

Just wondering some things.

Since you've got Ku'Gath, Unzuul, Skulltaker, and Epidimus which is 3 HQ slots, toss in Typhus and it's four. Are you sharing two FoC's?

What is your reasoning for taking 2x6 flamers instead of 3x4 or if sharing 2 FoCs why not 4x3?

Are you counting on your opponent knowing that Papa Nurgle's CSM units will be adding to the Tally?

[DarkLink]

Since you've got Ku'Gath, Unzuul, Skulltaker, and Epidimus which is 3 HQ slots, toss in Typhus and it's four. Are you sharing two FoC's?

Daemon Heralds like Skulltaker and Epidimus can double up on slots. He can have Ku'Gath (a Greater Daemon and one slot), and Skulltaker and Epidimus (Heralds and thus two in one slot).

[Leez]

Daemon Heralds like Skulltaker and Epidimus can double up on slots. He can have Ku'Gath (a Greater Daemon and one slot), and Skulltaker and Epidimus (Heralds and thus two in one slot).

Unzuul is a KoS.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Basically It's two armies joined together, although I've used an HQ slot from the Chaos Marine Side in my Daemon side instead, which my opponent is fine about.

Leez - actually, splitting the Flamers into 3s is not a bad idea as long as they can utilise chaos icons, otherwise you're increasing the risk of deepstrike mishaps by rolling for more smaller units. At least if they're in a six, there's plenty of firepower safely down as opposed to, say, six of them down and six either overshooting or being banished to the far corners. Or am I being a bit silly? Also, I don't know what FoC is short for (probably being really dumb here)

As regards Epidemius and the Plague marines - he probably doesn't know, but it'll be a nice surprise for him! It's an easy going club battle anyways, so anything either of us isn't happy about we can rectify. He's pretty confident with the Nids, so he won't care.

[Leez]

Basically It's two armies joined together, although I've used an HQ slot from the Chaos Marine Side in my Daemon side instead, which my opponent is fine about.

Leez - actually, splitting the Flamers into 3s is not a bad idea as long as they can utilise chaos icons, otherwise you're increasing the risk of deepstrike mishaps by rolling for more smaller units. At least if they're in a six, there's plenty of firepower safely down as opposed to, say, six of them down and six either overshooting or being banished to the far corners. Or am I being a bit silly? Also, I don't know what FoC is short for (probably being really dumb here)

As regards Epidemius and the Plague marines - he probably doesn't know, but it'll be a nice surprise for him! It's an easy going club battle anyways, so anything either of us isn't happy about we can rectify. He's pretty confident with the Nids, so he won't care.

FOC is Force Organisation Chart, not sure why I used a lowercase O, probably what made you think I meant something else.

As for more chances for DS mishaps because of more units rolling while true, it's balanced by less models getting effected when it does happen, same balance with respect to scattering too far away, and coming into play. I was just curious why. I've always preferred more smaller units for flamers and often horrors too because it forces the opponent to commit actions toward more units and allows myself to potentially spit their the flamers fire power. I don't see your or my view as being either right or wrong.

Good to know your group is easy going, The tally came up once here when I was playing Mono-Nurgle in a mini-league. I baited at this one CSM players Nurgle unit equipped with a template weapon with nurglings with Epi on the table to crank the tally up, then proceeded to gut the unit in my turn. Tally was 10+ at the start of the bottom of turn 2. He was none to pleased to say the least, since he only had the one unit the worshiped Nurgle.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

As for more chances for DS mishaps because of more units rolling while true, it's balanced by less models getting effected when it does happen, same balance with respect to scattering too far away, and coming into play. I was just curious why. I've always preferred more smaller units for flamers and often horrors too because it forces the opponent to commit actions toward more units and allows myself to potentially spit their the flamers fire power. I don't see your or my view as being either right or wrong.

What I might do is divide them as 1x6 and 2x3, see which turns out most useful! I'm hoping the Tally gets ramped up quickly, what with Ku'Gath and his Necrotic Missiles, the Daemon Prince and the Plaguemarines targeting his swarms. I reckon I'll get to a ten Tally at least in the second turn! I do think that focused fire against his swarms is a good idea, but also wanna take out his Tervigon ASAP too.The others can wait, as long as I can keep Zoanthropes far enough away from the vehicles for at least the first turn. Keeping Epidemius safe is paramount - I'm hoping to win an extra ten Plagueys off eBay this week, which will mean I may sub some of the Bloodletters for those guys. What would you protect Epi with?

[Leez]

What would you protect Epi with?

With your first born child's life or the promise of it when you get one. But seriously, Epi is one big egg in a Nurgle army, count on having to do anything and everything to protect him. That requirement is, unfortunately, a nice weapon your opponent has against you as well especially for a Tryanid player. Anything more specific isn't possible since it's just too much of a "What's the state of the table/reserves" sort of question.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Well, think I'll stick him with either as many Plaguebearers as possible or somewhere particularly unassailable. Hopefully in a bunker!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Sweet. Scored myself an extra Ten Plaguebearers - what shall I replace?

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

For anyone interested - I won!

[Hugz4Genestealers]

There can be no victory against the Tyranid swarms, only a postponement of the inevitable...