Who thinks DE will be the new "cheesy" army?

[Renegade]

With Phill Kelly writing it and GW pushing it to sell, not to mention what could be the best miniatures of any army.

Who thinks that DE will be one of the most cheese mongering codices of this edition, not to mention popular?

I think they could be...

[Dr. Doctor]

I think that the new DE will certainly be one of the most mobile and hardest hitting of the armies to be put out in this edition.

As for being cheesy I think that 5th ed Codexes have taken what an army specializes in and puts it on steroids (Blood Angels are faster and harder hitting in Assault, Guard has more tanks/infantry, Nids are more like and unstoppable hoard)

What I expect from the DE is a lightening-fast army that can bring serious pain while being fairly fragile, if the models are good and the fluff is there it should be a pretty popular army. The only roadblock to the Dark Eldar's success is that the army has been by the codex's own admission punishing to play should the player make a minor mistake in strategy, so it will be interesting to see what changes if any will be made to improve the army's ease of use.

[carrotcolossus]

It's hard to say before the dex is released. The fact that DE will be so fragile (Low T and bad Sv) means that their offensive potency is some what hampered by their weakness. BE and SW are so bad arse because they have no real weaknesses but can churn out some serious firepower.

[BuFFo]

I voted no.

They already are.

[Chuck777]

Unless GW purposely turns up their power above and beyond the 5E standard then DE will not be the uber army. Much like Daemons, they'll be too fragile for the average Space Marine player to really abuse.

So my answer is this - in the right hands, they will be very, very powerful. :)

[RocketRollRebel]

I feel that they will be about has powerful as Eldar are at the moment only more in line with the 5th ed codexes. I think/hope that they will be a fast, hard hitting army that is fragile and vulnerable to prolonged CC and what not. I've been going over the "current" DE codex quite a bit lately and I find a lot of the rules to be cool, fluffy and well intentioned but not quite there in terms of practicality.

I think they are becoming like squats where there is a lot of interest in them but no one really plays (or played) them. A new 'dex will bring in new players but I don't see them becoming the next SW or IG or Vulkan SM army.

[notoriousFAT]

i only vote yes for the simple reason, it will be like the guard and blood angel codex. A lot of ppl will get it, ppl and then we get to see the others come on these forums and cry about it when they cant win.

[Brass Scorpion]

I don't think this is a judgement or poll of a single new army book. If one believes that the next army book will be the "next cheese", then it's irrelevant which book it is regarding this poll. It seems to me what's being polled here is "do GW customers believe that the next army book, each time there is a new army book, will be the next cheese because there is a notching up in power for each new book."

[RocketRollRebel]

I don't think this is a judgement or poll of a single new army book. If one believes that the next army book will be the "next cheese", then it's irrelevant which book it is regarding this poll. It seems to me what's being polled here is "do GW customers believe that the next army book, each time there is a new army book, will be the next cheese because there is a notching up in power for each new book."

True story. All I have to say is, Remember when Double wing was broken? The new hotness codex is always going to be ushered in with wails of "Cheese", "my(insert army here) is useless now" and "OMFGBROKENSAUCE!". I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just sayin.

[Chuck777]

I don't think this is a judgement or poll of a single new army book. If one believes that the next army book will be the "next cheese", then it's irrelevant which book it is regarding this poll. It seems to me what's being polled here is "do GW customers believe that the next army book, each time there is a new army book, will be the next cheese because there is a notching up in power for each new book."

It's human nature to hate newness.

If you wait 6 months and people are still complaining, then it really was worth complaining about. Look at BA, we're, what 3 months (?) from their release and few people are flying off the handle calling them the cheesiest thing since cheese was invented. Same thing with Tyranids. In fact the only army that still gets a lot of cheese complaints is Guard. Which is to be expected since the codex possesses many strengths and has means to mitigate it's inherent weaknesses (unlike most of the other 5E Codecies).

[AbusePuppy]

Whatever army has been released most recently is the one everyone will kvetch and whine about how overpowered and cheesy they are, how they can't be beaten, how everything they have is better than codex XXX, how this is all a sign of how GW just wants our money (how surprising!) and the whole game is going downhill and things were better in the edition that they started playing in, etc, etc.

[fuzzbuket]

if its new hordes will scream CHEESE late until the night at every rumor and model when the dex is relleased its EIRHER CHEESE or BROKEN or UNSABLE

a week later someone learns to play against it, then

its too weak :(

[Archon]

I hope they will hava a big amount of power, with the same weakness like before:

Fast and hard hitting, but fragile.

So yes DE have to be the new cheese because their codex have to last at least 1,5 Editions or a minimum of 10 years:D

[Col.Gravis]

I'm pretty sure they'll be difficult to deal with at first and there will be a few moaners and some genuine nasty combinations, so yes they will hit hard if your not prepared to deal with them, but I expect they'll be just as fragile as now.

Innately cheesey? I doubt it because of the nature of army they'll still take a competent player to use successfully, fragile means unforgiving afterall and thats something anyone can capitalise upon.

[Renegade]

Who says they will remain fagile. Enough people complaining after the shot in the arm IG got, whats to say that DE won't get the treatment.

[BlindGunn]

DE have some very nasty tactics now as well as a glaring weakness. I think they will continue to have that same weakness - a Glass Jaw! They will dish it out in spades, but won't be able to take a hit themselves.

I Expect DE will start off as the "Dreaded" new army that everyone is afaid of until everyone gets used to the new "toys & tactics". People will buy lots of cool models and try all sorts of bizzare combinations because they "look neat". After that - meh. People who want to play Apocalypse or really large games will probably loose interest as they won't be able to last an extended battle. I expect DE games to be (on average) 4 turns. The games will be won or lost by that point. And the only reason I give them 4 turns is they will be dependant on Reserve Rolls! :rolleyes:

I think DE have always been an "experienced" army - it takes an good player with sound tactics and patience to play them well and consitently win. Not an army for the newcomer.

I do Expect everyone will buy the new Codex - just in case they stop printing it and forget to update it for another 10 + Years! :eek:

The one thing I hope they fix is make the codex more adaptable to different play styles, so that there aren't the 1 or 2 strategies used each and every game. I usually see Raider Spam and Portal Assaults now and I think that's because they're the only two methods that seem to work reliably for DE.

[DrLove42]

No, and any marine varient will always be the cheesiest thing on the block...you wait till GK or DA eventually surface and then i might call the cheese bluff.

But DE? No. Outside of this forum (or at least in my gaming area) people who complain about cheese are the same people. The marine players, be it vanilla, strawberry or....wolfy are the ones who complain. Thye get it into their heads that marines are best and anything thats better than them is broken.

I play 3 armies, 2 of which are reduced in effectiveness in curretn climates and would appreciate a new codex (Eldar + Tau) and the 3rd...is the subject of this thread. But the fact i can use an un-cheesy pre-5th ed codex and still wipe the floor with guard, nids, BA by turn 5 shows its the player not the book.

It not disbutable, that codexes are getting more beardy in one or 2 places. But its natural progression. Guard got a plastic flier. Then a marine one was created, with a model sometime soon probably.

And the other reason everyone won't cry cheese over DE? You won't see many players. The line will sell, but do you expect all the BA and other armies players to just drop their current armies and start on the spikey space elves? Existing DE players, a few adventrous young un's, people who like new projects and new people to the hobby will be the ones who starts. DE will still be outnumbered in the player circle by marines, guard, orks, nids etc for a long time.

They will be beardy. Thats for sure (heck some of the stuff in the current one is beardy as) but they will be balenced to other 5th ed. Its those people who haven't got a 5th ed (Tau, Eldar, GK, CSM and our poor friends the Necrons) who will feel it most. But as one of those i don't think it'll be cheesy. Beardy with plenty of "Wait, he can do what?!?" moments but not cheesy.

[DarkLink]

Who says they will remain fagile.

The people who have seen the codex, and are giving us hints and rumors about what it will contain:p

[erwos]

My assumption is that the average DE game plan will look something like a Rhino rush, just in open-topped, fast skimmers with low-armored assault troops. If they can get across the board, they'll be in a position of dominance - if not, they're screwed. If there's cheese involved, it'll be through stupid-awesome special abilities.

[Renegade]

The people who have seen the codex, and are giving us hints and rumors about what it will containNot seen much in the rumours other than poision on just about everything. Being a Phill Kelly dex though, the strength maybe they way everything interacts well and no dud units. Like SW cheese?

Just saying its a thought.

[Suttobs]

I think we'll hear a ton of whining about how broken/chessy it is.... at least until the GK codex hit, then it will be the broken/chessy army.

In my opinion Mech Guard/Leafblower is the the ONLY cheese list out there, and it really doesn't work unless you go to 2000-2500 pts.

My two cents.

[DarkLink]

at least until the GK codex hit, then it will be the broken/chessy army.


And it'll be about frikin time

[jmboland]

I think that the new DE codex will be considered cheesy because it is going to play different than any other army out there. They will be even more mobile than regular eldar with, if the rumours are right, some very wierd rules. As of know they are pretty rediculous with a standard ard boyz list with 20 raiders and 94034038340953480548 dark lances. I'm sure they are going to tone DE in that sense, while making the majority of the codex more playable, so you stop seeing a single DE build.

I'm sure they are going to be very good, I mean if theyre not, the last few DE fans I fear will kill themselves.

However, it would be very Dark Eldar ish to torture their fans with the release of a PDF....

[mysterex]

I think we'll hear a ton of whining about how broken/chessy it is.... at least until the GK codex hit, then it will be the broken/chessy army.

Agree - some people will go "witch crazy" for a while and then GK will come out making their invulnerable saves mostly irrelevant against that codex.

Within a few months balance will be restored.

[Squirrel_Fish]

My cardboard skimmers are doing their best to console you on how overpowered I am.

Edit: Or potentially will be.

[MajorSoB]

I dont care how the army itself plays, all I know is that I better get some special character goodness like Mephiston or I swear to GW I will throw myself down on the floor of the nearest store and whine and cry like a spoiled little 3 year old who is up way past nap time!!!!!!

[BlindGunn]

I dont care how the army itself plays, all I know is that I better get some special character goodness like Mephiston or I swear to GW I will throw myself down on the floor of the nearest store and whine and cry like a spoiled little 3 year old who is up way past nap time!!!!!!
Won't do you any good!

1) Closest Store might not be a GW store so they won't have any idea what you're screaming about. ("Cleanup required in Aisle 5 between TV Dinners and Ice Cream Products...") ;)

2) Already lots of screaming, whining, sobbing gamers all over the GW store floors - they won't notice the difference for a while! ("Where are my CHAOS Dwarves?!?!?" "When are the bringing back Man O War?!?!?!" "You changed the tint of my paints AGAIN!!!") :eek:

[Badblade]

I think every S3/T3 army with low armour saves on top will always grapple with a fragility that is difficult to completely overcome, even with a shiny new codex, lots of insane gear and special rules, and a truckload of corporate pressure to sell the the line like crazy.

Dark Eldar will continue to be a delicate army. They will have tons of sicks weapons and weird hand to hand wargear... but they will not suddenly dominate the table. I expect the DE codex to be a long awaited 400% improvement to the Dark Eldar. Players will be happy, but I don't think there will be too much whining and crying from the opponents of the new DE.

[MarneusCalgar]

I voted for the maybe... Who knows what will happen?

[Brettila]

I imagine they are going to seem bad right at first. Once people figure them out they wil probably take their fair share of whoopins'. That is, unless their rules get changed to the point they are virtually a different army...

[DoctorEvil]

I think it's "cheesy" to label stuff "cheesy" :)

[Vaktathi]

IIRC DE are being written by Phil Kelly right?

When has a Phil Kelly book written for 40k failed to become the next gold standard for power (or at least serious contender for such) upon release?

It certainly happened with at least the last 3 40k books he wrote (over the last 4 years, all I can remember off the top of my head basically), Eldar (anyone remember Eldar in 4E?), Orks (Everyone remember Orks up until the IG book?) and Space Wolves (nothing need be said).

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

DE will be a fast moving, lightly armoured mobile infantry army, with some long range squads that mimic Devestators, elite CC units to massacre your troops, and finally some heavy MC construct that will utilize some arcane magic to rip into your tanks (actually will be just a rip off the penitant engine i foresee).

In anything they will ofcourse beef them up to match current armies, Lilith will most likely be a CC unstoppable SC, and anyone else with the inclusion of some more SC's.
So all the SM players will scream "cheese" ofcourse as they dont have that new rule, wargear or vehicle, so YES it will look cheesy to most until you have a good look at it, play against it or stop whining enough to actually read it thoroughly.

[BuFFo]

What I can't wait is to see all the bandwagoners jump on DE thinking they'll get a free ride to winesville, only to be wiped off the table by turn 3 because they picked up an army that requires actual skill and real thought.

[Duke]

What I can't wait is to see all the bandwagoners jump on DE thinking they'll get a free ride to winesville, only to be wiped off the table by turn 3 because they picked up an army that requires actual skill and real thought.

QFT

Dark eldat will be a glass cannon, which will piss people off. They will both kill and be killed faster than guard.

Duke

[w7west]

DE already is the cheesiest army in the right hands. I seriously doubt we will get to keep our 10 point lances.

[Porty1119]

Are Raiders/Ravagers available in squadrons?

[Duke]

DE already is the cheesiest army in the right hands. I seriously doubt we will get to keep our 10 point lances.

Your right, they will probably be 15 points but be ap1 lol

Duke

[BuFFo]

Are Raiders/Ravagers available in squadrons?

No they are not.

[Renegade]

Probably will be though. an see it being less of a ''glass cannon'' and more of a ''glass hammer'' with a gelignite filled head.

[ctrich77]

DE might be tough at first but just like the eldar you get in close and they are done. My blood angel army has owned the 3 DE armies I have faced and this was before the new BA codex came out s3 t3 does them no good and I don't see them taking that away. They are a fast hitting army and that is what they will stay SM Nids anything with good armer or hight model count will own DE. Tau might be worried though.

[eldargal]

New army comes out, changes the game dynamic, people take time to adapt, while adapting the more moronic element start whining about cheese and overpowered. In a few months after the launch people have got used to playing the army and the whining reduces back down the regular background whinge that dominates the hobby. This process will be repeated with DE.