trying to help a frined take the dive into wargaming

[tylerparker]

new to this so please be kind,

A long time friend of mine has always been interested in 40k and finally has decided to take the dive, and was wanting to start an Iron Warriors army. Looking throough the Chaos Marines codex he wasn't to impressed, so we put our head together to think of ways of fixing this or possibly doing a counts as army. How do yall think Blood angels would work? i know it sounds weird but he would use vindies mainly with rhinos and razorbacks. He would aslo use baal preadators but only with heavy flamers because its kind of fluffy sending tanks to armed with flamers to clear out a breach.Death company could represent marines fallen totally over to chaos but no storm ravens stand alone apothicaries or specialized dreads or ics or sang guard ok pretty much half the codex off limits including certain wargear items


is this a good idea? any other good ideas out there? i dont want him to purchase an army and then only be able to play it against me.

[wittdooley]

Rules wise it would work just fine, but fluff wise it just doesn't work for me. Iron Warriors are sort of the antithesis of the Blood Angels when it comes to their combat style.

[DarkLink]

Though the BA do have quite the ability to mechanize, and some of the elite BA units can represent Chosen or Possessed or the like.

[Sangre]

There is a great deal of bile rising in my throat about how many people, unsatisfied with the codex for their armies, want to "counts as" SW or BA. It's bordering on the ridiculous. GO BACK TO SUPPLEMENTS, GW!

[Thomas Taylor]

I have a problem with this as a fluff-hound, for one. I don’t like counts as within the same codex, let alone cross-armies. I don’t think that every ‘codex’ marine chapter that isn’t Ultramarines would have a Tigurias equivalent. He’s unique for a reason. I also think chaos marines should use that codex. It’s a fine codex.

You could build a great, and competitive, Iron Warriors list with it that would be very fluffy and effective. The sheer amount of melta that you could field is crazy. Demon princes are good for IW, chosen are great. Read ‘Storm of Iron’ – even khorne berserkers work for IW.

They aren’t an assault army in the close combat since. They’re siege breakers. You can have ‘tactical’ squads with double-melta or flamers for bunker busting. Termies for breaching lines through deep strike. You could even field six landraiders if you wanted.

[wittdooley]

Yeah, I do, however, think you could get away with creating a really badass Counts As BA Night Lords army.

[BuFFo]

new to this so please be kind,

A long time friend of mine has always been interested in 40k and finally has decided to take the dive, and was wanting to start an Iron Warriors army. Looking throough the Chaos Marines codex he wasn't to impressed, so we put our head together to think of ways of fixing this or possibly doing a counts as army. How do yall think Blood angels would work? i know it sounds weird but he would use vindies mainly with rhinos and razorbacks. He would aslo use baal preadators but only with heavy flamers because its kind of fluffy sending tanks to armed with flamers to clear out a breach.Death company could represent marines fallen totally over to chaos but no storm ravens stand alone apothicaries or specialized dreads or ics or sang guard ok pretty much half the codex off limits including certain wargear items


is this a good idea? any other good ideas out there? i dont want him to purchase an army and then only be able to play it against me.

If you want Iron Warriors, get you a Chaos Marine codex and get to it.

Using Blood Angels as an Iron Warriors army is reeking of power gaming, since the two armies are direct opposites as far as the fluff is concerned.

The Chaos book is very powerful. Use it.

[codiddy]

new to this so please be kind,

A long time friend of mine has always been interested in 40k and finally has decided to take the dive, and was wanting to start an Iron Warriors army. Looking throough the Chaos Marines codex he wasn't to impressed, so we put our head together to think of ways of fixing this or possibly doing a counts as army. How do yall think Blood angels would work? i know it sounds weird but he would use vindies mainly with rhinos and razorbacks. He would aslo use baal preadators but only with heavy flamers because its kind of fluffy sending tanks to armed with flamers to clear out a breach.Death company could represent marines fallen totally over to chaos but no storm ravens stand alone apothicaries or specialized dreads or ics or sang guard ok pretty much half the codex off limits including certain wargear items


is this a good idea? any other good ideas out there? i dont want him to purchase an army and then only be able to play it against me.
regardless of your actual intention, people will think it's cheesy and that you're power gaming. and if he's going to make a bunch of the BA stuff off limits, he might as well use the chaos space marine codex and then have no restrictions

[DarkLink]

Yeah, but who cares what others think if they approach your game with a bad attitude

[CrimsonFist1149]

as a fellow Iron Warriors lover i say use the CSM codex. The Blood Angels fighting style just doesn't fit the way Iron Warriors fight. And the Chaos Marine Codex isnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Ive beaten both Blood Angels and IG with Chaos before.

[BuFFo]

Chaos SM wins tournaments for a reason.

[Grailkeeper]

Go with which ever you want.

Ultimately your friend is going to be playing against you and your other friends for a while before he plays against anyone else. When he does play against someone else he'll need their approval more than the approval of the internet when it comes to which codex he uses.

[Daemonette666]

new to this so please be kind,

A long time friend of mine has always been interested in 40k and finally has decided to take the dive, and was wanting to start an Iron Warriors army. Looking throough the Chaos Marines codex he wasn't to impressed, so we put our head together to think of ways of fixing this or possibly doing a counts as army. How do yall think Blood angels would work? i know it sounds weird but he would use vindies mainly with rhinos and razorbacks. He would aslo use baal preadators but only with heavy flamers because its kind of fluffy sending tanks to armed with flamers to clear out a breach.Death company could represent marines fallen totally over to chaos but no storm ravens stand alone apothicaries or specialized dreads or ics or sang guard ok pretty much half the codex off limits including certain wargear items


is this a good idea? any other good ideas out there? i dont want him to purchase an army and then only be able to play it against me.
If your friend likes the thought of Choas, but wants to use Blood Angels miniatures, then get him to start a Knights of Blood Army/ Warband. They consider themselves still Blood Angels, but have gone almost fully overto the red rage. They have been designated excommunicatum traitoris, and are mentioned in both codexes. He can use the Choas Marine codex for the units, but modify some of the Chaos models, and Blood Angels models to represent they have let their dark side take over.

Think of Flesh Tearers who actually stepped overe the Line.

To make things simple he could use bothe the Juggernaught symbol from the Chaos codex on one shoulder pad, and the Shield with the blood drop on the other. Then you could mix and match Blood Angels and Chaos Marine body, arm amd leg parts, and have a few extra characters for the Blood Angels for when you want to "play as loyal Knight of Blood" or use Chaos lords, and units from the Chaos list when you want to use the beyond redemption "Chaos Knights of Blood".

Make sure you have spare special and heavy weapons troosp to allow for the Space Marine only upgrades, as well as Characters for them. You could even have Kharn and some Khorne Berserkers added to the army for when you play as Chaos - again keeping them aside with the Chaos only stuff.

it is an Idea.

I would not use Iron warriors being represented by Blood Angels miniatures though. If your friend wants Iron warriors there are shoulder pads and conversion packs available to change standard Chaos Marine into them.

Who knows the ongoing rumour that the Chaos Space marine Legions will get their own group codex or individual codexes might just turn out to be true.

He could always hold out for that.

[Shotgun Justice]

apart from the vindicators there is very little cross over in play style between the 2 codices. I'd recommend using the CSM codex, but I would also suggest picking up a copy of the previous CSM codex, with the Iron warriors list in it and using that with friends - I'd happily let a pick up opponent use a legion list from that codex so long as it stuck to that rules set.
I still break out the 3rd ed Chapter Approved White Scars list now and again.

[Pendragon38]

I went and did the same thing your friend is doing CSM/SM, then I went and changed my whole army to favor of the machine. So my army is Tech-priest & tech-marines for Sgt. and HQ is a master of the forge.The is a good way so can have as much conversion as possible for my IG,SM,&CSM.

[Shotgun Justice]

I went and did the same thing your friend is doing CSM/SM, then I went and changed my whole army to favor of the machine. So my army is Tech-priest & tech-marines for Sgt. and HQ is a master of the forge.The is a good way so can have as much conversion as possible for my IG,SM,&CSM.

Pendragon38s suggestion to use SM is also a good un'. Lysander and or Kantor, Master of the Forge, sternguard, dreds and ironclads, techmarines and the whole Heavy Support section are your friends. Even use the allies rules for DH and WH for variety. Only the SM troops section lets you down

[Pendragon38]

yeah pertty much, SM trooper is a bit bland so I dug into some fluff for my army. so I went tech with my IG SM Pre-hearsy. I would like to add a Guild Master in my army for they are smarter than AM preist