Spearhead

[musical-fool]

This is just a quicky before I go to work for the day.

Last night I reread the WD on spearhead and it got me thinking that I hadn't seen any batreps on the new expansion? I haven't had a chance to play a game in nealy three, yes three months so I haven't tried it.

What about you? How does it change the "normal" game?

[Connjurus]

It wasn't as game-changing as I wanted it to be, but it was still a good expansion, and I play it usually twice a month or so.

Got a Tau friend who's fond of deep-striking his Hammerheads and hitting my stuff on side-armor. :p

[erwos]

The most obvious answer is, most people don't have the amount of armor required for a good Spearhead game, and to have one game, you need _two_ of those players. Fielding a couple Predators in a spearhead formation isn't really playing Spearhead...

I would also argue that the Imperial Guard is even more overpowered when given spearhead formations, given that the limitation on taking tanks outside of squadrons goes away almost completely.

[theHman]

Spearhead = GW lame attempt to "epic-ize" 40k.

Dammit GW, if you want us to play with huge tank formations, then re-release epic!

[musical-fool]

I see what you're getting at. I did have the impression that GW only realeased SH for two reasons:
1-Tank kits are expensive and so not as many shift off the shelves as many other things
2-Justifying the gradual meshing of the standard game and Apocalypse games seen by releasing the valkyries, trygons and putting the likes of Stormravens in newer codices.

As I say I haven't had a chance to play yet but I am thinking of building a dread tank-killer squad for my deathwing...

[Lerra]

I'm a huge fan of spearhead because it gives new life to some old army builds. I use my Kroot Mercs army for spearhead, usually. I think it's just fine to play a spearhead game with only 1-2 spearheads per side. It's a fun addition to the regular game, and you don't need to go fully mech or even partially mech to get something out of the spearhead rules.

[TSINI]

My local group and i had a spearhead game a few weeks ago, we enjoyed it because it had the feel of an apocalypse game, but without the "randomness" of the army selection because you still have normal limitations - apart from the armour

which is the biggest thing really, you can basically take sooooo many tanks, and for (FOC wise) free!

also with the formations, the tanks get all sorts of random bonusses, like appearing from behind the enemy etc, which shakes the game up somewhat.

personally its a good scenario to try out, even the game layout works differently, with more important objectives etc. which make you have to move about and quite literally "spearhead" forwards with armoured columns to bulldozer the objectives.

[Lucidum]

I haven't had a chance to play Spearhead yet, unfortunately, but I really want to give it a try. I rather like the idea of specialized tank/walker units, especially ones like the ambush spearhead and the archeotech spearhead. Although it's clearly a thinly disguised attemtp to "apocalypsize" normal 40K games by selling more tanks. I do, however, like the options to add some character and flavor to specific vehicle units in the flavor of books like "Gunheads" and the like.

[Vaktathi]

Was everything that was in the WD posted to GW's site?

[Brettila]

I was initially intrigued by Spearhead, as I really enjoy the insanity of Apocalypse. However, as I studied the SH rules I an across the paragraph that says each vehicle in a spearhead has to come from the same army list entry. Thus, you would need multiple falcons, predators, land raiders, etc. to fill out a spearhead formation. I have 9000+ points of Eldar and I don't have 2 of ANY tank (except wave serpernts of course). I only have 3 wraithlords that would work. I have an even larger CSM army, and could only field 2 raiders. Many players like to have, "One of everything." Unfortunatley, I only see IG players getting excited over SH.
As a total aside, I also find it hilarious that their pictorial example for the Outrier spearhead is not even viable as vypers are not tanks...sigh.

[BlindGunn]

Was everything that was in the WD posted to GW's site?
Last I saw - no.

Part of GW's idea was there are two parts to Spearhead. The rules are posted in the White Dwarf (they should eventually be released on their website) and the Formations were posted on the registered section of the website.

So those of us who never registered before, we now found ourselves needing to register to get access to the formations info.

I imagine the rules will also be posted on the website - I just don't know how long before they'll release them that way.

[eldargal]

I love Spearhead, it is an excellent supplement for those of us who do have lots of tanks, or just want to add an extra dimension to regular games. Bear in mind it was free, and is completely optional, really nothing to complain about here.

[musical-fool]

The idea of this thread was not to complain, far from it. I just wanted to have a general idea of how the new expansion was going down in games since I haven't had the opportunity to have a game myself for yonks (donkey's years).

I agree with you eldargirl about the fact that SH is a free expansion, optional, etc, etc, is good and I hope a step in the right direction for GW and the future...who knows we might get a price drop in a year or so...:p

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Now, let's not ruin a good thread by being completely rediculous.

[erwos]

I was initially intrigued by Spearhead, as I really enjoy the insanity of Apocalypse. However, as I studied the SH rules I an across the paragraph that says each vehicle in a spearhead has to come from the same army list entry. Thus, you would need multiple falcons, predators, land raiders, etc. to fill out a spearhead formation. I have 9000+ points of Eldar and I don't have 2 of ANY tank (except wave serpernts of course). I only have 3 wraithlords that would work. I have an even larger CSM army, and could only field 2 raiders. Many players like to have, "One of everything." Unfortunatley, I only see IG players getting excited over SH.
Bingo. Most non-IG players are not owning 3 vehicles of the same type to begin with, and IG vehicles can take way better advantage of the spearhead rule by using hull lascannons. ("Why, yes, I would like to shoot my battlecannon at your marine squad, and then pop a random tank with the hull lascannons.") Combine that with scoring tanks and turn 1 outflanking meltavets, and it's pretty much the IG player's game to lose.

Now, two IG players facing off... that could be epic. I personally have three LR BTs, three Medusas, three Demolishers, three Hellhounds, and three Sentinels, so I could see having some super abusive fun with Spearhead.

[BlindGunn]

While most of the Spearhead formations allow you to have up to 3 vehicles in a formation, you don't HAVE to have 3 (in MOST formations, anyway).

I had plans of using a Double Land Raider for a couple (3 Land Raiders is a bit expensive in points) and there is at least one formation that lets you use more than one vehicle type (mix a couple of Razorbacks with a Vindicator?).

My Dark Eldar - well - I have lots of Raiders already...

Tau - Hammerhead counts as one choice in the organizational slots - I can use multiple turret types in most of the formations. I just need more hulls...

I have yet to play a Spearhead game simply because most of us here like 1500 point battles (even most our tournaments are 1500). No one's been that interested in my local group I usually play. I would like to try it a few times though.

[Brettila]

Don't misunderstand. I was not being deliberately negative. I was quite excited when I heard about SH, as I love tanks on the table. We used to love to run special vehicle battles from way-back-when. I was merely pointing out, in answer to your question, Blind, that I felt disappointed in how they set it up. I don't know why they couldn't have done those formations with up to 3 tanks of any type; as long as they were tanks, that is all.

[erwos]

Seek and Destroy spearhead of Vendettas... evil. Move flat-out and _still_ fire two twin-linked lascannons, each at a different target.

The spearhead rules are shocking in the sense that they generally don't have much for marines. They're good for Predators and Land Speeders, and that's about it.

[Rangerrob]

Played one game...liked it.

We house ruled that the Space Marines could take the LR Terminus Ultra, as a spearhead unit or Heavy choice.

Datasheet Terminus Ultra Land Raider (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180072_Space_Marines_Datasheet_-_Terminus_Ultra_Land_Raider.pdf)

Just didn't seem fair that the Guard can bring a Baneblade because it says "Super-Heavy" but the Marines can't bring their best anti-tank out.

[BlindGunn]

Played one game...liked it.

We house ruled that the Space Marines could take the LR Terminus Ultra, as a spearhead unit or Heavy choice.

Datasheet Terminus Ultra Land Raider (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180072_Space_Marines_Datasheet_-_Terminus_Ultra_Land_Raider.pdf)

Just didn't seem fair that the Guard can bring a Baneblade because it says "Super-Heavy" but the Marines can't bring their best anti-tank out.
<Chuckle> I have an old Armorcast Warhound. Titan Legions and Marines worked together all the time! ;)

Seriously, whatever works for you and your group, is great! Just remember to have some FUN! :D

[Aegis]

Tried my first Spearhead today. 2500 points of Sisters vs. IG. For fun, brought in 'Hugo' (a Baneblade my groomsmen got me before getting married). Strangely enough, the Baneblade seemed to be the least impressive, or destructive thing on the table.

I did find that I love Mechanized assault, especially when I can bring a bunch Celestians with Meltaguns on a flank, and take some pot shots at the side armour of LRBT's.

[Daemonette666]

This is just a quicky before I go to work for the day.

Last night I reread the WD on spearhead and it got me thinking that I hadn't seen any batreps on the new expansion? I haven't had a chance to play a game in nealy three, yes three months so I haven't tried it.

What about you? How does it change the "normal" game?
I have played a few games at my local GW store, before they went all nuts over the new fantasy 8th ed release and concentrated on that.

I enjoyed it a lot. I am not new to gaming, and have a good collection of armoured vehicles, and transports to use. The game can be played by numerous gamers using differently aliied races, so anything goes for teams. Usually 3 tanks, or upto 6 monstrous creatures is what you need, but you can use a mass of infantry if you want (one of the formations), or mix APCs with troops/elites who ride in them and can flank attack from reserve. You can even bring your favourite superheavy, and if you do not bring it on i reserve, then you get an automatic glancing hit on it.

I was thinking of playing a game with all my tanks, and Apcs in a huge game. But I play Apocalypse, so maybe this is just a natural desire of mine towards Apoc style games.

I have used a Skull tower of Khorne - performed OK, but died in a few turns from EVERYONE shooting at it. Played Sisters of battle, Dominion squads with Meltas, and a Retributor Squad with Multi-Meltas, all mounted in Immolators. I came late to the game, so I had a team of just me, and got trashed after both sides got to feel the nasty side of my meltas, and multi-meltas in my first turn. I died very quickly after that. 3rd game, I tried 3 Chaos Land raiders. They performed quite well, but I was teamed up with 2 weaker players, so the enemy picked on my tanks the most, and we only just won that game.

I rate it quite well, as it brings Super heavies to the game, and allows you to try different formations/tactics.

[Daemonette666]

Bingo. Most non-IG players are not owning 3 vehicles of the same type to begin with, and IG vehicles can take way better advantage of the spearhead rule by using hull lascannons. ("Why, yes, I would like to shoot my battlecannon at your marine squad, and then pop a random tank with the hull lascannons.") Combine that with scoring tanks and turn 1 outflanking meltavets, and it's pretty much the IG player's game to lose.

Now, two IG players facing off... that could be epic. I personally have three LR BTs, three Medusas, three Demolishers, three Hellhounds, and three Sentinels, so I could see having some super abusive fun with Spearhead.
The only IG tanks/vehicles that I have 3 of are Chimerasand Sentinels which are currently being used by my Adeptus Arbites, and hellhounds.

My Sisters only have 8 immolators, 2 Rhinos, and 1 Repressor, 2 Exorcists.

My Chaos Marines have 3 vindicators, 3 predators, 3 defilers, 2 landraiders, 8 dreadnoughts and 10 Rhinos.

I have 6 other landraiders of either imperial or apocalypse design, a brass scorpion, greater brass scorpion, reaver titan, warhound titan, Tower of Skulls, 2 Fell Blades, a shadow sword, Plague tower of Nurgle, 2 lemon russ tanks, a basilisk, 4 Daemon princes, and 4 Graetor Daemons, and a daemon lord, and 4 Soul Grinders. Thankfully I do not have the partridge in a pear tree or 3 kitchen sinks. LOL

I am an exception I know. Especially since I have only been re-collecting GW for the last 4 years (got rid of practically everything back in 1995). But at mylocal GW store about half the gamers seem to have decent sized armies, allowing enough vehicles to play an armoured spearhead game. The local gaming club, has members there who have such a collection of tanks, troops, and forces that we could make play a huge game of Apocalypse that wold last weeks.

What I am basically saying is there should be enough people in your GW store, or local gaming shop/club to organise a decent game, unless you live out the "back of Bourke" (an old saying for those who do not live in Australia, it means very isolated with nothing but a post-office, a pub, and a grocery shop in town).

Anyway It is a really enjoyable, fun expansion, and is free to get into provided you have the White Dwarf and the downloadable formation rules.

[musical-fool]

I think Demonette666, you have it down to a tee. The new expansion seems to be a good way to mix up the common game for old (sorry "veteran" :P) gamers while newer ones, if they have the ressources can have a great time charging mechs into the face/flank/backside of an opponant.

Despite agreeing with you I still hate you for having all that mechanical gear!!! It must take up an entire house on it's own, no? Seriously, an empressive swag come collection come selection of armies!

Another question on spearhead, would the formations be tournament acceptable or doable? most tournies have point limits, so would you gamers out there substitute an elemnt of your regular army for the choice of a SH formation?

[the jeske]

What I am basically saying is there should be enough people in your GW store, or local gaming shop/club to organise a decent game, unless you live out the "back of Bourke" (an old saying for those who do not live in Australia, it means very isolated with nothing but a post-office, a pub, and a grocery shop in town).
or you live in europe and 90% of all gamers have max 2-2250 points armies and lot stop at 1850 and have build armies and not bought random models like crazy . spearhead just like apocalipse[stores hate them , tables taken for hours by same people , no new guys paying for tables etc] is a dead game even without it imbalances and the fact that some armies just cant play it [necron, nids etc]. even if they have a huge collection.

[Daemonette666]

or you live in europe and 90% of all gamers have max 2-2250 points armies and lot stop at 1850 and have build armies and not bought random models like crazy . spearhead just like apocalipse[stores hate them , tables taken for hours by same people , no new guys paying for tables etc] is a dead game even without it imbalances and the fact that some armies just cant play it [necron, nids etc]. even if they have a huge collection.
I didn't know it was like that in Europe. main stream Europe like Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. Do they make you pay for the use of the tables on an hourly or a game by game basis? My local club you are a member or casual, and then you pay once for the whole nights gaming. They have between 3 and 6 tables setup normally with lots of terrain, and people have played smaller games of Apocalypse 3000-5000 points.

We have 2 Battle Bunkers here in Sydney, and I have played 2 Apocalypse games that were organised the previous week, and took us 6 hours to play. (2 Slaanesh based CSM armies VS 2 Blaad Angels Armies). We had fun and the CSM won 2 Objectives to 4.

I understand Apocalypse, and larger Spearhead games take a while. The smaller ones with 2-3 players each side and only one formation each take about an hour and a half usually.

I believe some of the formations allow you to take upto 3 vehicles and it does not specify that they must be the same tank. Tyranids can take upto 6 Monstrous Creatures, and these can rip through tanks and troops alike. Necron Monoliths rule in Spearhead. 3 of them is very hard to fight against.

I like to mix things up myself. Predators one time, Chaos Dreads another. I have used the APC formation using SOBs armed with Meltas and Multi-Meltas riding in Immolators flanking the enemy.

The battle where I used the SOBs, is a good example of how a game can be played quickly, and by gamers of all levels.
I arrived late in turn 2, so made my on army of 2 formations of sister. one of 3 immoalaters, and one of 3 immolators with troops inside. Tyranids/Eldar won the game, destroying a Baneblade, a Tau vehicle unit, a Space Marine Dreadnought and a most of landraider led vehicle Squadron. The 2 Nids players and the 2 Eldar player ended up being the side with the most troops and objectives held by turn 6. I had 1 immobalised Immolator left, and the marines had a predator and an immobalised dreadnought. The nids/eldar had a Hive tyrant, 1 Carnifex, a badly shot up Trygon, a wave serpent less its fire dragons, and a prism cannon. It only took about 2 hours to play. I had such fun beng the 3rd leg shooting at both teams, and almost being wiped out.

2 players playing spearhead in its basic form can have 1 HQ, 2 troops and upto 1 of each spearhead formation, so you acn actually play a quite small game if you want to.

As for the question someone asked about conventions, and competions allowing spearheads. I doubt it. It is an expansion, so you wuold hav to run an expansion specific comp alongside the main game.