Thoughts on Blood Claws

[Weafwolf]

OK, so complaining in any way about Space Wolves is probably stupid, since they seem to be considered somewhere around the second or third strongest army at the moment. Personally, I'm not taking their strongest units (Thunderwolf Cav and Thunderwolf HQs) until GW actually makes models for them (yes, I know about Canis, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $40 for the dubious pleasure of converting metal models).

What I want to talk about is Blood Claws.

For some reason, I love Blood Claws. They're fluffy: half-insane, blood-thirsty beginners kept barely in check by Wolf Guard. Cool. Here's what sucks about them:

1. In the third edition, they were 14 points, could get three 12 point powerfists in an 11 man unit, and had essentially the same stats and abilities as they do now. In fifth edition, they get one powerfist at a cost that used to get me two and cost a point more. Huh? Grey hunters got uber-grit and dropped 2-4 points. A basic wolf guard now costs what GH used to cost. Now, I'm not saying it isn't ridiculous that GH cost so little. I'm saying how on earth do you justify BC costing the same? One extra attack on the charge, with a negative trait built in and lower WS and BS? Wha?
2. Bikes and jump pack marines are BC. That means BS 3. Now, those of you who play BS 3 routinely will want to slap me, but I can't see taking a single BS 3 meltagun on a bike or a jump pack marine (and I can't get more than one). Making those units BC has caused many players to avoid them.

Here's what I've learned to like about BC, besides fluffiness.

1. Synergy. There is something pleasing about sticking a Wolf Priest with an Oath of War against infantry and watching the BC reroll misses in close combat. Now we have a fearless BC unit without its negative trait that can largely ignore its lower WS. And if they get a charge off with +2 attacks, you're probably going to kiss a unit goodbye. A big footslogging unit that somehow gets a charge in undamaged is looking at 56 regular attacks and 3 powerfists, rerolling misses. Even nine in a rhino with a WP are going to do some damage. Of course, synergy doesn't mean much when 5 thunderwolf cavalry cost about the same as 9 BC with a powerfist and basic Wolf Priest, but I'm being positive here.

2. Rethinking bikes. With a Wolf Guard leader with a powerfist and combi-melta, a Swiftclaw with a powerfist, and 3-4 other bikers (what the hell, give one of 'em a flamer), these guys can take out tanks in assault (six powerfist attacks might even catch a fast skimmer) and actually put up a reasonable number of attacks. They're an interesting bait/counter assault unit, or for digging weak stuff out of cover with the flamer. Again, a Wolf Priest would be interesting here, but then I'm putting more points into the unit than I want. If it's really worth shooting your big guns at, it isn't bait.

I'm considering a Blood Claws Wing focus with 15 BC with a Wolf Priest and the bikes coming in behind a Fenrisian Wolf screen. Back that with a Rune Priest, mech Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, Scouts, and maybe a drop pod dread, and I ought to have an army with a ton of models that could force some unpleasant targeting choices. AND it would be hard to cry cheese against, lacking all of the Thunderwolf stuff. It ought to be fun.

[BuFFo]

Blood Claws are great.

I am glad most BA players don't use them.

[MC Tic Tac]

Of late I've been using 15 Blood Claws (Power weapon) with a Wolf Priest in a Land Raider Crusader - Brutal, in a 1,500pt list with 2 rhino mounted units of Hunters, and 2 unit of Long Fangs.


Thats 56 Attacks on the Charge, plus 8 more power weapon (inc the priests 4) with prefered enemy vs X unit type.

The only down side is that if you can't break/destroy the enemy on the charge vs resiliant combat units (FNP Nobs/Terminators,etc) you might be in trouble as you go down to 2 attacks per man not 4.

[blackarmchair]

Blood Claws are so-so. Personally I don't see much point in taking them considering that Wolf Guard are WS4 BS4 and also get 4 attacks on the charge and don't drop down as far point-wise in subsequent rounds of combat.

The only drawback is their maximum squad size is 10. So...unless you need a 15-man mob to footslog or hide in a crusader there isn't much point to take Blood Claws. Less Ld, worse WS/BS, and less options. WG all the way.

[erwos]

Of late I've been using 15 Blood Claws (Power weapon) with a Wolf Priest in a Land Raider Crusader - Brutal, in a 1,500pt list with 2 rhino mounted units of Hunters, and 2 unit of Long Fangs.


Thats 56 Attacks on the Charge, plus 8 more power weapon (inc the priests 4) with prefered enemy vs X unit type.
Someone did this to me last game, and, MAN, did it hurt. I had no idea he had units that could do that kind of thing, and I was utterly unprepared for it. He wiped out like a quarter of my army right there.

[BlindGunn]

I've enjoyed using my BCs. - I still have a lot of success with them.

I do take the Wolf Priest with them to help counter the WS3 issue. Always have at least 1 power fist. The only special weapon I give mine are flamers (with BS3, I never did take anything else) - and I only take them in larger packs (12+ BCs).

I've been using a 1500pt army with 3 drop pods and (usually) deep strike a GH and a BC pack together, supporting each other. Rest of the army comes in mounted or already deployed on foot. By dropping 2 pods in turn 1 together, usually one or both squads will survive my opponents next turn. If I haven't scattered too badly, BCs will charge in 1st turn. Even a squad of 5 BC Survivors, will cause an impact and act as a tarpit. Sandwiched between t squads and my normally deployed troops, my opponent usally has to split fire or concentrate on one side and get charged the next turn.

I do only use 1 squad of BCs for every 2-3 squads of Grey Hunters.

Main reason to take BCs is to save points as they are cheaper than Wolf Guard.

[Splug]

The cases where WS3 makes a damage-output difference are few and far between. Your typical WS3 opponents include guardsmen, guardians, termagants, and other blood claws. Every once in a while you'll hit marine scouts or something else, but the majority of those cases you're looking at 5+ or 6+ saves, and you'll tear through them like they're made out of tinfoil whether you hit on 3's or 4's. The other case that changes is the WS7-8 targets, such as hive tyrants, or a few special characters. Those are fairly rare circumstances, and if you've chosen to reroll against infantry it won't work on the big bugs anyway. Where WS3 is a problem is in survivability - there are a lot of WS4 models out there, and they all suddenly do 33% more damage in close combat against that squad.

That said, rerolling 50+ potential attacks is good regardless of what your weapon skill is. The lower WS doesn't really enter the picture, preferred enemy is just a very strong rule for any squad focused on close combat!

[Rusty Nail]

Blood Claws are great.

I am glad most BA players don't use them.

I'd be amazed if any Blood Angel players used them!

Blood Talons a different matter though

[Mr.Pickelz]

in fluff terms Ragnar is always with bc's alot, so does his +d3 attacks replace their (+2 attacks )berserk charge rule?

i like WL WP with 13 BC's w/WG (twin claws) in a crusader

[Weafwolf]

And one advantage I forgot is that BC are troops, unlike vanilla marine assault squads. That's one reason to take them over Wolf Guard besides cost.

[scadugenga]

Blood Claws are great.

I am glad most BA players don't use them.

Yarg, beat to the punch!

Nice one, Buffo