Drawup - Stormraven alternativ

[Crae]

Lo folks. I have been scratching my head about how I would like my version of a storm raven to look like. I have been fiddling around with some ideas and have made a rough sketch of how I want it to look, but I would like some input about it before starting to make anything. As you will see I still need to ad side sponsons and side dores on it. Like wise I need to put on engines (imagine valk ones between the wings and the body) and bloodstrike missiles. In the rear part there is going to be some form of magnetic hook or device to hold a dread. Shoot away with ideas and critic.

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/raven4_0000.jpg
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/raven3_0000.jpg
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/raven2_0000.jpg
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/raven_0000.jpg

[Aldramelech]

Thunderbirds are go!

[OCdt Mephiston]

The bottom of the front end seems a little boxy (ie. not very aerodynamic) to me, love the hawk shaped nose cone tho!

[Sanguinary Dan]

The worlds largest air brake in front is not, perhaps, the way to go. You need some sort of nod to the fact that it is capable of atmospheric re-entry and flight.

I'll admit that GW only builds flying things that rely on a fantasy form of powered flight, but even the worst Imperial a/c looks like it could be smoothed out enough to almost be aerodynamic. In the same way as an 18 wheeler, but aerodynamic.

[Iceman]

Thunderbirds are go!

I had the same impression. The first thing I thought was that it was Thunderbird 2.

My son collects Blood Angels. We have decided we will just wait for the official model.

[DrLove42]

The worlds largest air brake in front is not, perhaps, the way to go. You need some sort of nod to the fact that it is capable of atmospheric re-entry and flight.

I'll admit that GW only builds flying things that rely on a fantasy form of powered flight, but even the worst Imperial a/c looks like it could be smoothed out enough to almost be aerodynamic. In the same way as an 18 wheeler, but aerodynamic.

As i actually have a degree in Aerospace and Aerodynamical Engineering i can tell you that not a single GW flyer could probably fly. Ironically the Orks are the most likely to fky. Strap a big enough engine to it and it will fly.

In side notice the FW books and the apoc books label the engines on their fliers as ramjets and turbojets...and they don't get a single one right.

As for your design i like it, particularly as you've taken the time to design it from scratch like that. Its the first one that shows to me a door for a squad of assault marines to charge out of, whereas most of them don't

[Aldramelech]

As i actually have a degree in Aerospace and Aerodynamical Engineering i can tell you that not a single GW flyer could probably fly. Ironically the Orks are the most likely to fky. Strap a big enough engine to it and it will fly.

In side notice the FW books and the apoc books label the engines on their fliers as ramjets and turbojets...and they don't get a single one right.

As for your design i like it, particularly as you've taken the time to design it from scratch like that. Its the first one that shows to me a door for a squad of assault marines to charge out of, whereas most of them don't

Most modern combat aircraft designed in the last 20 years cant fly, at least not in the traditional sense.

[Mystery.Shadow]

Most modern combat aircraft designed in the last 20 years cant fly, at least not in the traditional sense.

It's not flying, it's falling with style!

I believe all modern fighter aircraft follow the Ork belief. Put a large enough engine behind [anything] and it will leave the ground. Not unlike a 1967 Chevy Impala with a J.A.T.O. unit bolted to the roof.

[SotonShades]

Most modern combat aircraft designed in the last 20 years cant fly, at least not in the traditional sense.

Not technically true... They can fly perfectly well, but are too unstable, particularly in pitch, for a human pilot to control. Trust me, I have been in most of the same lectures as DrLove42 for the last 4 years.

As for the Storm Raven, in general I like it. Quite Firefly-esque. Possible slope the front door forward, similar to a Thunderhawk front ramp, and maybe some endplates (wingfances) on the end of the tail plane, again in the style of the Thunderhawk

[Aldramelech]

Not technically true... They can fly perfectly well, but are too unstable, particularly in pitch, for a human pilot to control. Trust me, I have been in most of the same lectures as DrLove42 for the last 4 years.

As for the Storm Raven, in general I like it. Quite Firefly-esque. Possible slope the front door forward, similar to a Thunderhawk front ramp, and maybe some endplates (wingfances) on the end of the tail plane, again in the style of the Thunderhawk

ergo they cant fly :D

[SotonShades]

find someone with fast enough reactions and they can. I think more accurately, they can fly, but they can't be flown

[Sanguinary Dan]

No. Modern fighters are so dynamically unstable that ONLY the computers can react fast enough to keep the plane from tumbling out of the sky. In pre fly by wire aircraft the center of gravity and the center of lift were designed to be close enough together to effectively be the same thing. The current 4th and 5th generation jets don't even care.

If you can find it on the web there is an old General Dynamics test film from the late '70s that shows what happens when you shut down all the computers on an F-16. The plane is cruising along perfectly trimmed for level flight. Off go the computers and the damned thing swaps ends faster than you can imagine. It's like watching a bird have a seizure.:(

[Aldramelech]

As I said. Ergo they cant fly :)

[OCdt Mephiston]

I love how the lounge turned into an aeronautics forum... :rolleyes:

[DrLove42]

OK counter argument. Modern Fighter aircraft cannot fly in an EMP environment, but with the computer systems such as FBW (Fly by Wire) they can.

The fighters of the Imperium (thunderbolt, valk, marauder etc) probably wouldn't fly even with a computer system as the wings are just flat plates (not the aerofoil profiles of modern aircraft) and wouldn't generate enough lift on the size of the engines they use. Lift is generated by Lift = 0.5 * density of air * surface area of wing * speed^2 * coefficient of lift. The lift is set by the design and on a flat plate is very very very low, the surface areas of the wings are quite small compared to their weight, the density of the air is a variable depending on the planet in the 40k universe. So they'd need to travel at insane speeds to generate the lift required to fly. Which brings us onto....

The Valk, Vendetta...maybe Stormraven...how those things are supposed to hover without downward facing engines i don't know...the second they stopped or slowed to hover they'd just fall out the sky

[Aldramelech]

Easy. Anti gravity.

[Faultie]

The Valk, Vendetta...maybe Stormraven...how those things are supposed to hover without downward facing engines i don't know...the second they stopped or slowed to hover they'd just fall out the skyAt least on the Valkyrie and Vendetta, there are downward facing turbofans of some sort on the wingtips. As far as I can tell, the Imperium hasn't got "anti-gravity" except for things like Land Speeders.

As I said. Ergo they cant fly :)
Humans can't manually control birds or ride on a the backs of egrets, but I they flying aboutjust fine. The capacity for flight is independent from human input.

[SotonShades]

In pre fly by wire aircraft the center of gravity and the center of lift were designed to be close enough together to effectively be the same thing. The current 4th and 5th generation jets don't even care.

in actuality, the CoG of the aircraft usually has to be ahead of the Aerodynamic Centre of the aircraft to counter the nose up pitching moment of the main wing. This then has to be countered with a further nose up, trimmable moment provided by downward force generated by the tail-plane. The fact that this downforce can be altered, and even changed to an upward force, or nose down moment, allows for a range of CG positions to be used, allowing for a change of weight between empty and full flights for passenger and cargo civil aircraft, or the firing of weapons or dropping of bombs from military aircraft, not to mention the usage of fuel in either case. As a rule this is generally reversed for aircraft which use canards (like a tialplane, but with the wings on the nose of the aircraft, as with the Wright Flyer and the Eurofighter Typhoon) as a counter moment, though again, changing the nose up moment from the canard to a nose down allows for a greater CG range to be possible, allowing the aircraft to be stable in more configurations. The vast majority of airliner crashes at take off or landing are caused by the pilot incorrectly calculating the CG of the aircraft based on passanger and cargo loading, creating an aircraft with lower, or occasionally nagative, stability which when faced with a disturbance to the airflow seen by the aircraft, such as the gusts generated around building or natural features such as forrests, causes the aircraft to crash.


The current 4th and 5th generation jets don't even care.
To achieve the agility these fighter aircraft require, their CG point has to be extremely carefully calculated, more so than for stable aircraft. As the centre of preassure of a wing, and so the aerodynamic centre for an aircraft, changes with speed, especially as you get into trans-, super- and hypersonic flight regimes (not that these aircraft can get even close to hypersonics), they actually become stable at flight speeds in excess of 0.9 Mach (approximately, depending on the actual aircraft and individual mission loadout), and certainly into supersonic flight. This is an additional reason as to why they are designed to cruise at between 1.5 and 2 Mach.

[gorepants]

The Valk, Vendetta...maybe Stormraven...how those things are supposed to hover without downward facing engines i don't know...the second they stopped or slowed to hover they'd just fall out the sky

THE POWER OF SCIENCE!
/boomy voice

[Frost451]

This was a conversion that looks kind of like a thunderhawk that I did.

http://s1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/Frost451/Storm%20Raven/

[Aldramelech]

At least on the Valkyrie and Vendetta, there are downward facing turbofans of some sort on the wingtips. As far as I can tell, the Imperium hasn't got "anti-gravity" except for things like Land Speeders.

Humans can't manually control birds or ride on a the backs of egrets, but I they flying aboutjust fine. The capacity for flight is independent from human input.

Jump in a F117A, climb to 50,000 feet and turn all the computers off and let me know later how you get on :p

[SotonShades]

Jump in a F117A, climb to 50,000 feet and turn all the computers off and let me know later how you get on :p

no direct linkage between the pilot's controls and the control surfaces, so they should fix into a glide configuration. Would be a fun ride down though :)

[Crae]

After following your interesting discussion, I have changed a couple of things. Is this more to your liking ?

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/stormraven2nd2.jpg
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/stormraven2nd.jpg


or is this more the format you prefer?
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/Stormraven.jpg

[Frost451]

I like it, you may be able to put in some harriertype vertical thrust jets.

[Aldramelech]

no direct linkage between the pilot's controls and the control surfaces, so they should fix into a glide configuration. Would be a fun ride down though :)

Nope. The F117A is incapable of a glide without constant correction from the computers. Without the computers it will fall from the sky like a brick.


After following your interesting discussion, I have changed a couple of things. Is this more to your liking ?

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/stormraven2nd2.jpg
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/stormraven2nd.jpg


or is this more the format you prefer?
http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx91/cuthlas/Stormraven.jpg

It still looks like Thunderbird 2.

[DrLove42]

Actually thunderbird 2 only looked like that when i landed to drop off its cargo. In flight is a was...well...bit more aerodynamical.

As for the 2 new designs prefer the 1st one. I personally don't like ones which are just "mini thunderhawks". They might be described as that in the codex (dunno i've not got one) but your design looks better