From looking at the 8th edtion Fantasy, how will 6th edtion 40K might look like?

[HsojVvad]

This is for the veterans out here or anyone who knows, GW pretty well. Now that Fantasy 8th edition is out, and seeing what the changes were, and guessing what could happen, what do you think 40 6th edtion might look like?

I don't know, so I have no clue. The only thing I can think of is that 40K will let you premeasur shooting or anything, just like in LotR wich seemed to go into fantasy 8th edtion as well.

So seeing how Fantasy changed from 6th, to 7th and now to 8th, how do you think 40K changed from 4th to 5th and might change to 6th?

Does anyone see any patterens? From what I herd, Fantasy 6th to 7th wasn't big changes, like 40 4th to 5th wasn't big changes, basically played the same but with new and or different rules.

Is Fantasy 7th to 8th a big change or just more small changes again? If so, I am guessing 40K 6th edtion, will be just another small changes and nothing major, like 2nd going to 3rd.

Most of you guys seem so knowladgeable so I like to hear your opnnions on what you can guess what might happen for 40K 6th edtion.

Also when did 40K 5th edtion come out? 2 or 3 years ago? So would this mean (going on a 4 year edtion cycle) that it will be next year or 2 years from now for a new edtion of 40K?

[Renegade]

A long way off! They still have 8 armies to complete for this edition, and they have said they will all be done before they will move on to another edition.

[Mauglum.]

Hi Renagade.
And what makes you think GW plc will update all armies before the new edition of the game is out , this time?

6th ed will be more of the same , larger model count, more dice rolling and special rules...

Or hopefully is might be the complete re-write that has been years overdue, to correct the mess 3rd ed was...

TTFN

[BlackKnight15624]

I don't think we can infer GW will make the same sort of changes to 40k as they did to Fantasy- they're extremely different games. However, if they were to make similar changes, I'd likely guess that it'd be higher model counts. Much beyond that GW wouldn't want to mess with the formula too much.

All just guessing.

[DarkLink]

I can't see many of the fantasy changes rolling over to 40k. Random terrain effects? 2d6 inch charge range? It just doesn't fit, really. 40k is too different of a system to have the changes carry over.

[Melissia]

I could see (And get behind) always allowing pre-measuring, though.

[fuzzbuket]

Hi Renagade.
And what makes you think GW plc will update all armies before the new edition of the game is out , this time?

TTFN

didnt a while back GW said theyd redo ALL army dexes for 6th??

[Mike X]

At the current cost of Warhammer 8th edition, plus GW's annually inflating prices, I'd say that 40K's 6th edition will look to be about $100.

[Melissia]

didnt a while back GW said theyd redo ALL army dexes for 6th??

They also said it for fourth edition too.

[HsojVvad]

I do not mean specific rule changens from Fantasy to 40K. Yes I know there are 2 different game systems then again WotR is different than to Fantasy as well, but some of them are similiar. From what I read, WotR could have been a test bed for Fantasy 8th and they took the good stuff, like pre-measuring and a few other stuff wich I don't recall.

But what I ment more is like, if movement changed in Fatantasy, from one edtion to another how did it happen? Did a similiar thing happen to 40K? Like in 5th edtion, Run was introduced for everyone. Did something similiar happen in Fantasy 6th to 7th?

Or did something significant happen in Combat or assault in Fantasy that makes you think it could be a good idea if impliment in some way in 40K?

Maybe similiar things in WotR they implimented in 40K, do you think maybe then they will get rid of unit co-herency because there is no rule like that in LotR? Is there unit co-herency in Fantasy? I don't know, I don't know Fantasy at all, that is why I am asking here.

I thought you guys might see a patteren going on from Fantasy and 40K edtion changes. I was just curious thats all.

As to the all codex being updated before 40K 6th edtion, do you really see this happening? I belive GW is sticking to the every 4 years rules change. So when did th come out? 2 or 3 years ago? So do you think GW will release

DA, BT, GK, SoB, =I=, Orkd, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Chaos SM, Deamons, and Tau all in the next 2 years? Did I miss any by anychance? This is all I can remember.

So I don't think GW will be able to keep their everythign will be updated before the 6th edtion comes out. It would be nice if they did, but seeing how they might need a new influx of money again, it will happen. I also believe 6th will come out before all of the codex are updated because it will give them a good reason to update SM again. It makes business sense to do so.

[DarkLink]

I could see a lot of the 5th ed rules getting streamlined (in a good way). For example, go back to how wound allocation was handled in 4th ed.

As for major changes, it's hard to say. Premeasuring, improvements to ramming, but more fragile vehicles to balance the current mech craze, things like that.

But to be honest, all 5th ed really needs is some cleaning up. The basic gameplay is solid, the rules are just kinda loose and the specifics could be improved in a lot of areas.


I could see (And get behind) always allowing pre-measuring, though.

Same here.

[mysterex]

The armies in the box set will probably be Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and Necrons.

[Mr.Pickelz]

it would be funny to see the Next box set to contain Necrons vs Dark Eldar.

[Melissia]

DA, BT, GK, SoB, =I=, Orkd, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Chaos SM, Deamons, and Tau all in the next 2 years? Did I miss any by anychance? This is all I can remember.

Dunno.

But I do know the following is what current rumors suggest:

DE this year
Grey Knights, Necrons, Sisters next year

After that I imagine a xenos faction then Dark Angels.

[sebi81]

what i really would prefer for 6th ed. 40k is a faq for all codizes to update them.

[fuzzbuket]

At the current cost of Warhammer 8th edition, plus GW's annually inflating prices, I'd say that 40K's 6th edition will look to be about $100.

but if you are a soace marine player you can always buy the box :D the new box set will be space mahreens vs. shpeesh mahreens :P

[BDub]

I don't think we can infer GW will make the same sort of changes to 40k as they did to Fantasy- they're extremely different games. However, if they were to make similar changes, I'd likely guess that it'd be higher model counts. Much beyond that GW wouldn't want to mess with the formula too much.

All just guessing.

If the model counts go much higher, they will likely need to reconsider the marriage to the "your turn/my turn" gameplay format. There is already TOO much emphasis on an alpha strike and reserves only flip the coin to the other side - its still the same coin.

[HsojVvad]

If the model counts go much higher, they will likely need to reconsider the marriage to the "your turn/my turn" gameplay format. There is already TOO much emphasis on an alpha strike and reserves only flip the coin to the other side - its still the same coin.

I still keep doing this till I am corrected. I am to use to the LotR system, you go, I go, you shoot, I shoot.

I think 40K would be better if we went this way. It would actually make you think. If you try to move into potion to fire, the other person may move out now. Also it will make you think, if I try to move out, I may actually being moved into harm to get away from someone else.

This would be a nice change I belive. I like it so much in LotR, I think it would work in 40K. Also for us who have less attention spans, we don't have to wait so long to do something then.

[BuFFo]

Does anyone see any patterens? From what I herd, Fantasy 6th to 7th wasn't big changes, like 40 4th to 5th wasn't big changes, basically played the same but with new and or different rules.

LOL

The changes that make Objectives seperate from Victory Points, and that only Troops can hold Objectives was mechanically the biggest change 40k has ever had.

Even 2nd edition and 3rd/4th were just extensions of 'kill fest' armies.

5th edition is the first time players have to actually 'think' while playing a game.

Of course the layman hobbyists will not have a clue what kind of mechanical difference I am talking about, suffice it to say, the change was the biggest yet, and it has made 40k 5th edition a near perfect game.

Now, if only Fantasy would do the same, and make Objectives separate from kill points and have only Core be able to hold the points, Fantasy would be one step closer to being the thinking man's game that 40k is, and one step further from being the brainless power gaming mess it has been for decades.

[fuzzbuket]

LOL

Of course the layman hobbyists will not have a clue what kind of mechanical difference I am talking about, suffice it to say, the change was the biggest yet, and it has made 40k 5th edition a near perfect game.

:mad: it has made a diffrence rather than painting fancy ellite units it means painters have to paint boring troops choices :P

seriously tho that is the reason that "troop holding obgectives" was a massive change even for non comp players, older codexes have to fight hard to get efficient troops whils having support, even if there is 10 TH/SS termieswith a LR on that objective all there going to do is contest it.

[HsojVvad]

LOL

The changes that make Objectives seperate from Victory Points, and that only Troops can hold Objectives was mechanically the biggest change 40k has ever had.



That is a small change over all. That is two mechanics but on an overall scall, not much change. 40K still plays like 4th to 5th. I guess the Tyranids FAQ confirms this. To say things don't effect units in a vehicle without an explantaion as to how or why in 5th edtion means you have needed to know 4th edtion to play, so there is not much real change.

It is still a I move, I shoot I assualt, then you move, you shoot, you assault. That hasn't changed for 3 edtions now. So maybe I thought they might change it to like what LotR system does. WotR seems more on a scale for fantasy, while maybe LotR SBG might be what 40K is.

Just wundering.

[BuFFo]

That is a small change over all.


seriously tho that is the reason that "troop holding obgectives" was a massive change even for non comp players, older codexes have to fight hard to get efficient troops whils having support, even if there is 10 TH/SS termieswith a LR on that objective all there going to do is contest it.


Of course the layman hobbyists will not have a clue what kind of mechanical difference I am talking about.....

One of you gets it.... :P

[warpcrafter]

I just hope that they don't make the psychic rules like the WFB magic rules. That miscast chart is BRUTAL!!!

[DarkLink]

I'd like Rapid Fire to change to being a choice between either assault 1 or heavy 2. I've played a game where we tried that out, and it was awesome. Tactical squads and Sisters of battle can suddenly pour out impressive firepower when they stay still, as well as being able to move and shoot more effectively.

I think just that change right there would shift a bit of focus from close combat to shooting as a means to kill your opponent for most armies. Tau Firewarriors are suddenly awesome. Sisters of Battle and Marines become quite a bit more potent.

Nidz and Orks probably wouldn't like the change, but there would ideally be other rules to help them out.

[Xas]

If they continue on the awesome-souce-track that the WHFB8 book & erratas started we could see possible anything.


What I'd love to see is a sucessfull streamlining of allmost all codex-spezific rules to general special rules (even if only that one codex has units that actually use it like tau jumppacks now). this would remove SO MUCH of the hassle that comparing different special rules is.

just look at ASF, ASL, their itneraction and how so many "kinda but not RAW identical" rules have been erratad to read "this unit has XYZ".


finally this hasnt to wait till E6 to be done (al GW needs to do is write some erratas/FAQs and maybe release updated codizies for the old E3/4 books via web/white dwarf).

I'd also like for them to adapt the % of fantasy for the force charts (eq: min 1 HQ, max 25% of your points in HQ. min 2 Troops, min 25% of your points in Troops, Max 50% of your points in each FA/Elite/HS. No FA/Elite/HS choice may be taken more than trice/6x for armies up to 2500/above 2500).


Going to a mixed turn would make the game more interesting but I'd go so far as to mix it on a per-unit (or per FOC slot) basis.

example: player A moves tactical squad 1, player B moves gaunt brood 1, player A moves terminator sqaud,...

or even go as far as trow the different phases out of the window and allow each unit two activations per turn where each activation can be used to either move, shoot or assoult (and fight).

example: player A activates tactical squad to move within 12" of termagant brood. Player B now can either activate the endagered sqaud (and move away, shoot or charge before the marines can shoot him) or say activate his hive tyrant and move within charge distance of said marines. say he moves his tyrant. now the marine can either do something totally diferent (like move a rhine somehwere else or shoot a devastor squad) or make the critical choice with the marines to either assoult/shoot the gants (or tyrant) and suffer allmost certain death by the tyrant or move away again.

[Mauglum.]

Hi folks.
Buffo.
Artificialy restricting the actions of a 'unit type' to change players preconceptions about force composition is not a game mechanic in the purest sense.
Its a maketing ploy to up the sales of troops choices.:D
I agree it did it did have a massive impact on the 'meta game' by adding more artificial restrictions to it.

40k uses restrictions to make strategic planning (list building ) far more important than in game decisions.

Xas.
I agree a change in the game turn mechanic to make it more interactive, would allow far more tactical chioce and multiple uses for all unit types.

Either unit activation or interleaved actions, as other games use, would result in more player interaction.

It would be possible to keep the current gameplay of 40k , but use far les complicted rules , if legacy issues could be ignored.Eg re-write the rules and ALL army lists at the same time.

Just use core rules without exceptions .
Rather than the special rules for special minatures for special people GW seem to push ATM.

TTFN.

[BuFFo]

Hi folks.
Buffo.
Artificialy restricting the actions of a 'unit type' to change players preconceptions about force composition is not a game mechanic in the purest sense.
Its a maketing ploy to up the sales of troops choices.:D

Spoiler Alert!

The entire Hobby is a marketing ploy to sell models.

;)

[Lerra]

I'd love to see pre-measuring allowed. It would end a lot of arguments over charge range and players who try to move 7" during the movement phase so that they can get into assault range. Also, in a high-tech setting, it just makes sense to pre- measure range for shooting.

I'd also bet that 6th ed will put a heavier emphasis on reserves - this allows people to field more models without increasing the table size. I'd wouldn't mind if 25% of every army had to start the game in reserve. It would make the games more dynamic, reduce the potency of an alpha strike, and fix the table overcrowding problems that some armies have.

[HsojVvad]

Spoiler Alert!

The entire Hobby is a marketing ploy to sell models.

;)

Then again, if you do not like it, there is always Battletech to play. You don't need minis for that game.

But from what I see, alot of people prefer GW methods.

[Melissia]

I'd like Rapid Fire to change to being a choice between either assault 1 or heavy 2. I've played a game where we tried that out, and it was awesome. Tactical squads and Sisters of battle can suddenly pour out impressive firepower when they stay still, as well as being able to move and shoot more effectively.

I think just that change right there would shift a bit of focus from close combat to shooting as a means to kill your opponent for most armies. Tau Firewarriors are suddenly awesome. Sisters of Battle and Marines become quite a bit more potent.

Nidz and Orks probably wouldn't like the change, but there would ideally be other rules to help them out.

For Orks, just adding 6" to the range of their weapons (Both sluggas and shootas) would do the trick. Their shootas would become 24" assault weapons, while their sluggas would become 18" pistol. THey'd still have to deal with BS3, but it'd make a shooty Ork list be able to keep up with said change to rapid fire as shoota boyz, too, can fire two shots at 24"-- only they can move afterwards.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, though that would require a new ork codex. If you wanted to balance it out with just the new 6th ed brb, I'd say you could probably do it be adding outnumbering back into combat resolutions, to give horde units a buff. Shooty armies get shootier, and horde armies get a bit better to compensate.

[erwos]

I'd like Rapid Fire to change to being a choice between either assault 1 or heavy 2. I've played a game where we tried that out, and it was awesome. Tactical squads and Sisters of battle can suddenly pour out impressive firepower when they stay still, as well as being able to move and shoot more effectively.
Totally agree. I hardly ever get to take 24" bolter shots, because I'm constantly running to objectives, and taking 12" rapid-fire shots is basically never a better option than just charging. Switching to the system you're proposing would make gunlines far more viable in a tactical sense, and maybe even make IG hordes usable again.

I'm also a big fan of pre-measuring - while I think that most experienced players don't miss the easy stuff, there are sometimes tactical options that don't really present themselves without knowing the true distances between units... 23" looks like 25" from time to time...

[Porty1119]

At the current cost of Warhammer 8th edition, plus GW's annually inflating prices, I'd say that 40K's 6th edition will look to be about $100.

Well then, I'd either keep on playing 5th ed with my friends or my IG would go up on eBay. There's a reason I only buy one or two models every month or two.

Anyways, I stand behind anything that allows premeasurement. Other than that...%-based FOC limitations kill any type of themed list. My IG air cav? Dead....Only x% of my army can be FA and therefore Valkyries. I'd very likely quit if this was done, or simply ignore it and stay out of tournaments.

[DelphicFist]

I'd like to see a completely new system. With such things as scrapping the WS chart and the way BS works.

This is one area where Warmachine/Hordes made a much more elegant and simple rule set. I'm not saying do the exact same thing but something similar. I like that at range certain units are harder to hit than others, I could go on but you get the idea.

[DarkLink]

Totally agree. I hardly ever get to take 24" bolter shots, because I'm constantly running to objectives, and taking 12" rapid-fire shots is basically never a better option than just charging. Switching to the system you're proposing would make gunlines far more viable in a tactical sense, and maybe even make IG hordes usable again.


And if you think about it, in the game there are some good troop choices, some mediocre ones, and some bad ones. Of those, troops that rely on rapid fire weapons are either mediocre (Tactical Squads) or poor (Fire Warriors). Change rapid fire, and suddenly these units can compete with much harder troops choices.

[Lucian Kain]

Cool idea that makes More sence than close combat being clearly king over range in the game, that even today in the real world if we can see it we can kill it,range, strength and armour are of little consequence.(But still factors of course)

This would bring ballance to lists and *make armoured transports more valuable*, as they should be and not just fast expendible rides to burn around in.
Modern warfare is mechanised.(mounted infintry) or (Air cavalry)Common sence can prevail in WH40k too.

* Then the improved AV damage tables would be definitely justified.(not that i think they're bad)
*Use of terrain and cover becomes more important,more tactical.
**How about a "stand-and-shoot" charge reaction like Fantasy or for assault x. weapons and Inititive roll-offs on rapid-fire **
*Tanks could return fire when assaulted!!! more balance Less rock paper scissors!!!

BALANCEING melee nations easily fixed by giveing them dodge/better cover saves on the run and increased by fleet and assault , even better attacks on the charge.
Eldar would benifit well from this excentuating thier combat prowess as a race as upossed to staying or sheer hitting power.
Otherwise:( racial smoke screens/combat resolution bonuses/more attacks/USRs.)
Close combatants should win by surprise or overwhelming the oposition because the gun is faster than the sword or at least untill the clips empty, this could be represented on Iniative stats or roll offs for the first round of combat.Assaults are deadly and difinitive-even after wining an assault you "could" consolidate into a new enemy but face charge reaction stand&shoot to stop a clean sweeping advance that wipes out an entire army from one flank to the other in the old steam roller fassion.But maintaining the advantage of being locked in close combat safe against consintrated gunline fire.
This could be represented in the game more accurately some how...

[Torcano]

At the current cost of Warhammer 8th edition, plus GW's annually inflating prices, I'd say that 40K's 6th edition will look to be about $100.

Welcome to Warhammer 8th in Canada. And I believe other countries (some like Australia paying much more even).


Well then, I'd either keep on playing 5th ed with my friends or my IG would go up on eBay. There's a reason I only buy one or two models every month or two.

You are cheap, poor and/or in the wrong hobby? ;)


Is $100 supposed to be too much to pay or something, is that your point? Thanks for last weeks complaints guys, really.

Just FYI, better sell those IG now if a $100 rulebook is offending to you, as it is already out.

[Sangre]

Of course the layman hobbyists will not have a clue what kind of mechanical difference I am talking about, suffice it to say, the change was the biggest yet, and it has made 40k 5th edition a near perfect game.

Agreed, provided you're playing one of the armies that has a codex built with 5th in mind. As opposed to, say, Eldar, Dark Eldar, or any of the other armies in my cabinet that no longer see any table time.

Also Necrons. Because **** necrons.

[Leez]

Metric, I'd love to see the distances changed to metric with multiples of 5cm being the values.

[DrLove42]

Metric, I'd love to see the distances changed to metric with multiples of 5cm being the values.

Never Gonna Happen. GW are british after all and we still use miles and pounds for everything.

[Leez]

Never Gonna Happen. GW are british after all and we still use miles and pounds for everything.

Hmmm, I thought you lot changed over and the imperial stuff is just lingering. That's pretty much how things changed here. Government went very strict, converting to metric and private/businesses phased metric in and imperial out over a few decades.

I remember grocery shopping with my mum when I was a kid food was always given in both, but by the time I was doing my own shopping it was near impossible to find anything with an imperial unit at all.

Guess your side is still mostly imperial then?

[Aldramelech]

Hmmm, I thought you lot changed over and the imperial stuff is just lingering. That's pretty much how things changed here. Government went very strict, converting to metric and private/businesses phased metric in and imperial out over a few decades.

I remember grocery shopping with my mum when I was a kid food was always given in both, but by the time I was doing my own shopping it was near impossible to find anything with an imperial unit at all.

Guess your side is still mostly imperial then?

The metric system was introduced in 1972 in the UK. We all pretty much ignored it and carried on regardless.

Europe has tried to enforce various metric legislation over the years and have always been sent packing with their tails between their legs. I can still buy my bannas by the pound, my beer by the pint and travel as many miles as I choose.

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Belgium,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender

[murrburger]

To me, metric would be a pain in the ***. (I live in Canada. We're about halfway between Britain and the States. Our booze says 1.14 litres, but everyone calls it a 40. That's British 40, not an American one, mind you.)

It's so much easier if the game works in multiples of 6". I'd hate to be forced to work with centimetres. 6x4 becomes 182-ishx122ish. Great.

How far can a bolter shoot? 61ish cm. Awesome.

Unless you mean to just change everything from the ground up. But that would probably even drive me even more crazy.

Of all the things to change, please don't change to metric. Fix up deep striking, and wound allocation first.

[DarkLink]

Europe has tried to enforce various metric legislation over the years and have always been sent packing with their tails between their legs.

America didn't even get that far. We've gone back and forth over simply putting metric measurements alongside english units on bottles and stuff.

Of course, being an engineering student I love the metric system (it makes the math so easy), and so I wish they would just suck it up and switch over, but there's too many people stuck in their ways.

And, of course, 40k would change quite a bit, as everything is currently based on 6" measurements. Changing that to metric would be tough.

[HsojVvad]

And, of course, 40k would change quite a bit, as everything is currently based on 6" measurements. Changing that to metric would be tough.

Well 40K wasn't allways about 6" measurments. It use to be a SM could only move 4". But to give the SM a free buff, it was said everyone moved 6" standard so SM and Terminators were not even slower.

Changing to metric wouldn't be so tuff as you might think, what would be tuffer would be changing 40K people to go to different movement stats. :eek: ;)

[jimbob]

I hope they put this rule in the new version of 40k:

"Units that enter the battle as reinforcements are placed in base contact with the board edge." and the rest of that section on page 27 and the reserves rule on page 142. All 40kized as necessary. No more arguments about big models hanging off the board.

[Leez]

To me, metric would be a pain in the ***. (I live in Canada. We're about halfway between Britain and the States. Our booze says 1.14 litres, but everyone calls it a 40. That's British 40, not an American one, mind you.)

It's so much easier if the game works in multiples of 6". I'd hate to be forced to work with centimetres. 6x4 becomes 182-ishx122ish. Great.

How far can a bolter shoot? 61ish cm. Awesome.

Unless you mean to just change everything from the ground up. But that would probably even drive me even more crazy.

Of all the things to change, please don't change to metric. Fix up deep striking, and wound allocation first.

meh, that's why using multiplies of 5cm, no different then multiples of 6inch, 6inch is essentially 15cm anyway. Using cm in place of inches wouldn't be any harder or easier.

That's said I wonder which part of Canada you're in. I never see imperial measurements on food and fluid products. We're virtually exclusively metric. Odd values such as 1.14L or 331mL are because of products made for the u.s.a but even still the stock sent to Canada doesn't have the imperial silliness on it.

[BuFFo]

Agreed, provided you're playing one of the armies that has a codex built with 5th in mind. As opposed to, say, Eldar, Dark Eldar, or any of the other armies in my cabinet that no longer see any table time.

Also Necrons. Because **** necrons.

In my humble opinion, Eldar seem to be doing just fine in 5th edition, from what I see personally.

[mysterex]

America didn't even get that far. We've gone back and forth over simply putting metric measurements alongside english units on bottles and stuff.

Of course, being an engineering student I love the metric system (it makes the math so easy), and so I wish they would just suck it up and switch over, but there's too many people stuck in their ways.

And, of course, 40k would change quite a bit, as everything is currently based on 6" measurements. Changing that to metric would be tough.

With rods, perches, chains and links who'd want stick with the imperial system. In fact I think two of those are even different names for the same distance.

If I remember rightly NASA lost a probe at one point because one of their labs was using imperial while another was using metric and because they were talking at cross purposes it somehow drifted permanently off into space. That was amusing.

[Cyron]

quick question, i only got into 40k in 5th but what was wrong with 3rd? every old vet i see petty mush dismiss it as a mess, what is really wrong with it.

all i want to see are DE to be release and chaos marines, maybe get them some better toys.

[Melissia]

And if you think about it, in the game there are some good troop choices, some mediocre ones, and some bad ones. Of those, troops that rely on rapid fire weapons are either mediocre (Tactical Squads) or poor (Fire Warriors). Change rapid fire, and suddenly these units can compete with much harder troops choices.

And Battle Sisters are often viewed as good, but they aren't really any better than Tactical Marines as troops choices (just the best the codex has...).

[Melissia]

quick question, i only got into 40k in 5th but what was wrong with 3rd? every old vet i see petty mush dismiss it as a mess, what is really wrong with it.

all i want to see are DE to be release and chaos marines, maybe get them some better toys.

Mostly the army books as far as I can tell. The army books were simplistic, hideously limited, and had no real customization.

[BuFFo]

quick question, i only got into 40k in 5th but what was wrong with 3rd? every old vet i see petty mush dismiss it as a mess, what is really wrong with it.

all i want to see are DE to be release and chaos marines, maybe get them some better toys.

You deploy your Marines in a rhino.

Turn one, you move 12", disembark out of the Rhino, Rapid Fire into a unit, and then assault the unit.

'Nuff said.

[murrburger]

meh, that's why using multiplies of 5cm, no different then multiples of 6inch, 6inch is essentially 15cm anyway. Using cm in place of inches wouldn't be any harder or easier.

That's said I wonder which part of Canada you're in. I never see imperial measurements on food and fluid products. We're virtually exclusively metric. Odd values such as 1.14L or 331mL are because of products made for the u.s.a but even still the stock sent to Canada doesn't have the imperial silliness on it.

It would be different. 6 inches may be 'close' to 15 cm, but 12 inches is 30.48 cm.

Anyways, what I was trying to say is that that because the game is already set up to play in multiples of 6", what would be the point of radically altering the scale? It would only be a pain in the *** for everyone who has played the game for years, and who have boards set up.

I'm around Vancouver. On the packaging, it may say 1.14 litres, or 750 ml, or whatever. In stores, we have the option to buy fruit/vegetables by the kilo and by the pound. And besides, last time I checked, even though it says otherwise on our DL's, everyone still measures their own weight in feet/inches and their weight in pounds.

[DarkLink]

And Battle Sisters are often viewed as good, but they aren't really any better than Tactical Marines as troops choices (just the best the codex has...).

I'd say they're better than tactical Marines, personally, because they can do a lot of what tactical Marines do, for a fair bit cheaper. In fact, there are some things they do better, as you can get a heavy flamer or a second heavy weapon in the squad. A meltagun and a heavy flamer, combined with potential AP 1, is quite the advantage in firepower over a Marine squad.

Yeah, you get a bunch of increased stats for cheap if you compare Sisters to Marines, but I think Sisters have a more defined role and fulfill that role very well, while Tactical squads don't have that capacity in the same way. I think the cheaper and more specialized, but with inferior stats, works out for the Sisters in the end.

Now, if Tactical Marines had a second CCW, then it would be an entirely different story.


Regardless, modifying Rapid Fire rules would give both Sisters and Tactical Marines a big boost. They'd have better mobility, being able to move and shoot to 24", and they'd make gunlines more viable being able to pour out fire if they stand still. I don't think anyone would consider them to be bad units in any way after a change like that.

[Melissia]

No, a squad of ten Sisters with two special weapons, veteran, and book in a rhino cost about the same as a squad of ten marines in a rhino (with special/heavy weapon)..

Sisters have two advantages: Book of St. Luciuss (must be paid for), and Acts of Faith (must be paid for, and is a limited resource and you must pass a test to access it).

Marines have many: MEQ, Combat Tactics, Combat Squads, ATSKNF, both types of grenades, bolt pistols, and better upgrades on their sergeants.