How to Beat Grey Knights with Chaos Daemons or CSM

[Daemonette666]

In my local gaming area we have a gamer who has been playing Grey knights, originally allied with Imperial Guard, and now with the reprint on the GW website, he fields them on their own with an inquisitor and 3 assassins. He uses buildings for cover and relies on his shroud, and ranged weaponry until you get in close, then he strikes with his incinerators, his high weapon skill, and strength, and his suped up Justicars - usually artificer armour and bionics and death cult assassins.

His Inquisitor normally has a null rod and comb-melta. For backup he uses a dreadnought or 2 with a lascannon and missile launcher.

I have tried shooting him from long range, and tried some of the ordnance weapons available to me, but his shroud works too well and my ordnance generally misses (double scatter distance). I get out shot, and then lose the vindicator or defiler to enemy lascannon fire. he tends to bring his dreadnought in as a reserve until he knows where I have deployed my tank/defiler

I have worked out a plan, however I am unsure if it will be feasible, as he currently only plays 1000 point games, and my minimum size army for this tactic will be 1500 points.

**Kharn and 9 Berserkers - Champ with power weapon, mounted in a Landraider
**upto 10 noise marines with blastmaster, sonic weapons, champ has doom siren and power weapon - mounted in a rhino.
**1 squad of chaos marines with an icon of chaos glory and a lascannon to hold objectives on my side.
**A defiler with A twin linked Lascannon to help destroy his dreadnoughts.
**Maybe Lucius the Eternal, if I have the points to assist with clearing the GKs out of cover

Use my unaligned CSM to hold my objective, the landraider covers the defiler, and the the I rush up and deploy troops. shoot with the noise marines, then charge the Berserekes, pop smoke, charge his dreadnought with my defiler, support my berserkers next turn with my noise marines. Simple, but risky.

He gloats that his army is unbeatable when he plays against daemons or Chaos Marines, and he is the worst sportsman around when he wins. His nickname is "Jason CHEESE", because he normally builds cheese army lists.

Do any other Chaos Space Marine players know how to bring this emperor's lacky down a peg or 2?

[DarkLink]

This guy sounds kinda fishy. Shrouding is 3d6x3. The average roll is 31". If you're within 24" range, you should only fail on a very poor roll. Shrouding shouldn't be any problem whatsoever, unless you're trying to hit him from across the board. In which case, don't.

Also, shrouding only works on Grey Knight infantry. You can shoot the Inquisitors, assassins, and any vehicle without any problem.

Now, by 3 assassins do you mean death cult assassins? Because all the other assassins are 0-1. Regardless, assassins only have 2 wounds and a 5+ save. A single round of shooting will bring them down.

A Justicar with artificer armor and bionics is nearly 100 points, for a 1 wound model. Be glad he's wasting points there, rather than taking more Grey Knights.

Also, null rods are completely and utterly 100% useless against Daemons. Daemons don't use psychic powers, and so the null rod has no effect.



Rules aside, Kharn is great here. Grey Knights have trouble dealing with Land Raiders, and Kharn will make his points back once he makes it into combat. Berzerkers will put the hurt on Grey Knights as well, if you get the charge. Good choice, there. Kharn also loves Dreadnoughts.

Against Grey Knights, be aggressive. Get in his face fast. Don't leave a unit on your objective, that just leaves him breathing room. As a Grey Knight player myself, I can tell you that if you do a good job of bum-rushing him, either with Daemons or CSM, you have a solid chance of wiping him out. Overwhelm him. Grey Knights, as well as the other units he seems to be taking, are overpriced, and probably are most easily beaten by overwhelming them.







However, the best way to bring him down a peg or 2 is to do the following; "No, I'm not playing against you because you're an @#$%. Go find someone else to be rude to."

If he really is that bad of a sport, just don't play him. It's not worth wasting time with someone who you won't have fun with.

[Connjurus]

Exactly what DarkLink said. All of it. 1,000 point games, really? I can understand playing those sometimes, but the fact that he refuses to play at higher-point cost games shows that he really just doesn't like to lose, which'll happen quite a lot for most unskilled GK players above 1,500 points simply because of the army's overall high points costs.

Don't give him an ounce of breathing room. And check his army-list - bringing two dreadnoughts, an inquisitor, three death cult assassins, and a minimum of two GK squads with incinerators and pimped-out Justicars sounds like that would cost more than 1,000 points to me - also, aren't regular Inquisitors elite choices for Deamonhunters? I thought you had to bring Inquisitor-Lords for HQ.

[Connjurus]

Which goes to show my ignorance - it doesn't.

However, I'd say that the defiler isn't a good choice, points-wise - not with TLCs. I'd say a predator with an autocannon and two lascannons would do you better, but that's just me - the big thing here is to focus on close-combat. Berzerkers and lots of them - along with Kharn, who is a very good choice. Don't bother spending the points on Lucius, though, he's really not worth it.

Does he normally give his Inquisitor a retinue?

[fuzzbuket]

tanks, because outside of meltabombs GKs have a problem, and use more models, shoot the i and Death cultsand use anti tank againstg GK

[Daemonette666]

Exactly what DarkLink said. All of it. 1,000 point games, really? I can understand playing those sometimes, but the fact that he refuses to play at higher-point cost games shows that he really just doesn't like to lose, which'll happen quite a lot for most unskilled GK players above 1,500 points simply because of the army's overall high points costs.

Don't give him an ounce of breathing room. And check his army-list - bringing two dreadnoughts, an inquisitor, three death cult assassins, and a minimum of two GK squads with incinerators and pimped-out Justicars sounds like that would cost more than 1,000 points to me - also, aren't regular Inquisitors elite choices for Deamonhunters? I thought you had to bring Inquisitor-Lords for HQ.
Thanks for the hints guys/gals.

I have let it be known to a few of his mates that I do not want to ever play against him until he grows up.

I believe he uses an Inquisitor Lord which he attaches to one of the GK squads, and I have only seen him with 1 dreadnought for 1000 point games so far. He has metioned something about taking a landraider crusader and getting another squad of GKs, and he does not like GK terminators. The 3 assassins are death cult, but I can never see them on the table, I think he keeps them in reserve, or hides them behind building corners.

It is a favourite trick of his from when he used a1750 point Imperial Guard army with witch hunters Inquisitor allies. Then he used an Inquisitor Lord with retinue, and a Calidus Assassin to take out any units he could not get to by shooting. He used 2 Manticores, 2 psyker battle squads in Chimeras, 2 veteran squads in chimeras and one in a valkyrie gun ship. Company commander, and a platoon with heavy weapons section added. Generally he just sat in cover, and waited until I came at him. Hit me with the Assassin, then moved in his reserves in chimeras and the gunship (which he kept behind buildings) when I was sufficiently weakened.

I do not know which would be better, beating him and not gloating - having his mates pick on him for losing to me, or just not lplaying against him. I think I should organise everyone to boycot/black list him until he changes his behaviour. LOL

Thanks for the feedback, I think I will drop all the support vehicles like predators or defilers, and just take him down with Berserkers and Noise marines. The doom sirens are the best way to shoot him down before I strike in close combat. maybe 2 small squads in rhinos, lose the blastmasters, and capitalise on kharns kick arse skills.

I think 2 landraiders would be too expensive for a game like this, and I can use the extra squads to flank him, and he should have committed his assassins by them, if I have not doom sirened them by that time.

Using Daemons against him is another problem, as he drops the null rod, a Grimoire of true names and takes 2 mystics, and a callidus assassin instead of the death cult assassins. He just shoots me as I land, and if I deap strike ouside his mystics 4D6" range (taken from the Inquistor), then He moves a couple squads out and Incinerates me. I also have to charge through terrain at Initiative 1 unless using daemonettes which wound him on 5's against his GK's even when they are in the open. He targets my shooting units first, then the daemonettes. By then the rest of my units do not fare so well against him in close combat.

Again thanks for the feedback. I am going to the battlebunker tomorrow, but I suspect he will be trying to play a lot of WH Fantasy games with his Wood Elves army he is building.

I will have fun anyway which is the reason to play wargames. I know there will be others who want to play 40K there.

When not wargaming, I will be painting my Khorne tower of skulls which has come along nicely. 3/4 of it is painted now. I have a good idea for its base. Get more skull packs, make a Fantasy movement tray to fit the banebalde base size, fill it with Das modelling puty, which I put the skulls onto. Press the tracks into it, then add broken/cut bits of plastic card to the ares where the skulls would have been crushed. Super glue the lot, then when dried, paint, and dry brush the whole base.

It should look good.

[Tacoo]

Using Daemons against him is another problem, as he drops the null rod, a Grimoire of true names and takes 2 mystics, and a callidus assassin instead of the death cult assassins. He just shoots me as I land, and if I deap strike ouside his mystics 4D6" range (taken from the Inquistor), then He moves a couple squads out and Incinerates me. I also have to charge through terrain at Initiative 1 unless using daemonettes which wound him on 5's against his GK's even when they are in the open. He targets my shooting units first, then the daemonettes. By then the rest of my units do not fare so well against him in close combat.


Just to ley you know, you may keep your army a secret, your opponent is not spose to know your army before you play, and its generally bad sportsman ship to tailor your list. if he does that, dont tell him what army your using (bring both with you of course). if he insist then say the oppsite of what your uusing.

[DarkLink]

Using Daemons against him is another problem, as he drops the null rod, a Grimoire of true names and takes 2 mystics, and a callidus assassin instead of the death cult assassins.

A null rod has no effect whatsoever on Daemons. It only blocks psychic powers, and the Daemons codex doesn't have a single psychic power in the whole book.

[Connjurus]

Also, mystics have absolutely no effect on the Daemons, both Lesser and Greater, in the CSM codex, as neither of them actually Deepstrike.

[Daemonette666]

A null rod has no effect whatsoever on Daemons. It only blocks psychic powers, and the Daemons codex doesn't have a single psychic power in the whole book.
Sorry if you misunderstood, should say "drops the null rod and death cult assassins replaces them for a grimoire of true names and a calexus assassin.

[Daemonette666]

Also, mystics have absolutely no effect on the Daemons, both Lesser and Greater, in the CSM codex, as neither of them actually Deepstrike.
Chaos Space marines have Terminatos, and Raptors can deep strike as an option. Daemons must deep strike to arrive on the table. Besides the quote from the codex under mystics says the following:

If a unit of Daemons, a Greater Daemon or a Deep Striking unit enters play within
4D6" of an Inquisitor with a Mystic Henchman (roll when each unit enters play), both
he and the rest of the retinue may immediately take a ‘free’ shot at them. These
shots are taken before the enemy unit moves, as an exception to the normal turn
sequence, and the unit counts as stationary. Aside from this, the normal shooting
rules apply. If the Inquisitor has two or more Mystics in his retinue, he may instead
nominate one unit with a model within 12" of him to immediately take these ‘free’
shots at the enemy unit that has entered play.

So I either need to arrive outside the 4D6" range or take the fire(free shot) from the friendly units within 12" of his Inquisitor. He likes to use his incinerators and psycannon for that.

[Lord Inquisitor]

If your guys go first his Grey Knights don't stand a chance. Take Kharn and Bezerkers in 2 Land Raiders, then just take some other stuff.

[Daemonette666]

If your guys go first his Grey Knights don't stand a chance. Take Kharn and Bezerkers in 2 Land Raiders, then just take some other stuff.
Lord Inquisitor, sounds similar to the idea I had, but I was going to use kharn and berserkers, and then add noise marines in a rhino or another landraider I find the Doom Sirens are amazing at clearing out enemy in power armour who skulk in cover. This also makes it likely I hit his assassins as well because of the Str 5 AP 3 template.

The sonic blasters are 5 points extra, but I can shoot 2 shots and still charge (I know I can not charge if I dismount from a tank/vehicle that is not open topped or classed as an assault vehicle that turn). But the extra fire power is handy, and I can charge into combat next round.

Conjurus, I have thought of a solution for daemons in a CSM army - refer to your last post. I can rush a unit into close combat, then bring the graetor daemon into playfrom reserves by possessing the body (destroying it) of a champion. I would be in close combat then, and my opponent could not shoot at the GDt. He would have to fight it in close combat in iniative order, as normal.

[Connjurus]

That's actually a really good idea - and the GD is definitely worth its 100 points. Also, you CAN assault from those vehicles, as long as the vehicle hasn't moved.

[Melissia]

So I either need to arrive outside the 4D6" range or take the fire(free shot) from the friendly units within 12" of his Inquisitor. He likes to use his incinerators and psycannon for that.

You mean friendly unit, singular. It's really one per inquisitor lord I suppose.

[Connjurus]

Yup, one per Inquisitor Lord per Deep Striking unit. Has be been doing multiple units?

[Daemonette666]

Yup, one per Inquisitor Lord per Deep Striking unit. Has be been doing multiple units?
Ye,s he has been shooting at multiple units. He said he got confirmation from GW themselves so I checked up on it.

I sent an email Inquiry to GW's head office in Australia. They confirmed that with 2 mystics, he could target multiple units of daemons arriving within 4D6" of the Inquisitor model, and they could be shot at by any friendly unit within 12" of the Inquisitor model.

They also said this was a special rule, a "free shot" taken out of turn order, and that any unit shooting at the daemons or deep striking units could move and shoot as they normally would in their own turn. It was not a form of overwatch, and that the same unit could shoot multiple target units.

I argued that the rule said one unit of daemons or deep striking unit per turn, however they said the ruling specifically states (roll when each unit enters play). I also argued that this let him measure the distance for multiple units, then choose one unit form those that arrived, but they were adamant on their ruling.

It is a nasty rule, which is probably why when you conbine it with the shroud, and the GK's resistance to psychic attacks, being fearless and their high Weapon Skil - 5 that they cost so much

Thankfully with the online PDF they can not use allies and thus get artillery any more.

It might be a good I dea, as you say to shoot from the vehicle, then disembark in the next turn before the Rhino moves. I was however thinking of using the Khorne Berserker unit Champion as the victim for the GD's possession. I equip him with a power weapon and no other extra wargear.

The only problem is that you can not determine which turn the Greater Daemon arrives. If you roll for it to come on too early, and you are not even close to the enemy, it gets targetted and wiped out. If it arrives too late, you may ahve to use another unit champion who has lots of wargear like doom sirens, etc. It is a risk I would have to take, but if it works, it would smash his troops to bits.

[Daemonette666]

Ye,s he has been shooting at multiple units. He said he got confirmation from GW themselves so I checked up on it.

I sent an email Inquiry to GW's head office in Australia. They confirmed that with 2 mystics, he could target multiple units of daemons arriving within 4D6" of the Inquisitor model, and they could be shot at by any friendly unit within 12" of the Inquisitor model.

They also said this was a special rule, a "free shot" taken out of turn order, and that any unit shooting at the daemons or deep striking units could move and shoot as they normally would in their own turn. It was not a form of overwatch, and that the same unit could shoot multiple target units.

I argued that the rule said one unit of daemons or deep striking unit per turn, however they said the ruling specifically states (roll when each unit enters play). I also argued that this let him measure the distance for multiple units, then choose one unit form those that arrived, but they were adamant on their ruling.

It is a nasty rule, which is probably why when you conbine it with the shroud, and the GK's resistance to psychic attacks, being fearless and their high Weapon Skil - 5 that they cost so much

Thankfully with the online PDF they can not use allies and thus get artillery any more.

It might be a good I dea, as you say to shoot from the vehicle, then disembark in the next turn before the Rhino moves. I was however thinking of using the Khorne Berserker unit Champion as the victim for the GD's possession. I equip him with a power weapon and no other extra wargear.

The only problem is that you can not determine which turn the Greater Daemon arrives. If you roll for it to come on too early, and you are not even close to the enemy, it gets targetted and wiped out. If it arrives too late, you may ahve to use another unit champion who has lots of wargear like doom sirens, etc. It is a risk I would have to take, but if it works, it would smash his troops to bits.
I also forgot, the Grey Knights have a rule that, if I intend to charge them, then I have to roll for difficult terrain. Even if they are out in the open. Again I got confirmation from GW's office on this one, because Mr. Cheese said the intiiative of my Bloodletters was reduced to 1.

If the daemons do not have attack grenades, then their iniative is reduced to 1, and I have to roll for the charge distance when charging GKs just as if I was charging though cover. Even if they are out in the open. This ruling applies to units with the daemon special rule such as daemon princes, but not possessed CSM, Daemonically possessed vehicles, defilers, etc.

The solution is to charge them in the second round while they are already in close combat, or posses my champion while he is locked in close combat, if I am lucky enough with my timing for rolling reserves.

There are special psychic attacks that the Inquisitor can use to either create a zone of Sanctuary around himself and his unit, or destroy daemons. I am not sure if it can affect Possessed CSMs, Defilers, Soul Grinders or CSM vehicles wich are daemonically possessed though?

[Old_Paladin]

One thing I saw that no one has corrected yet.
You said that he puts his Inqusitor lord into a unit of Grey Knights; he's not allowed to do this.

A lord MUST take a retinue of 3-12 henchman, he must be placed in this unit and as long as that unit is alive, the Lord in not an IC (he cannot leave it); that means no GK special rules like shorunding, etc. And makes it a nice soft and easy target.

Also, if he is using a sancuary zone power, I want you to know that the whole unit using it is not allowed to do anything else [just incase he's also moving it around or shooting you with it; he sounds like the kind of guy that would].


It sounds like this guy is bending a lot of rules and in some cases just lying and cheating.
I just wouldn't play him anymore if there are other players and you could actually be having a good time with.

[DarkLink]

I also forgot, the Grey Knights have a rule that, if I intend to charge them, then I have to roll for difficult terrain. Even if they are out in the open. Again I got confirmation from GW's office on this one, because Mr. Cheese said the intiiative of my Bloodletters was reduced to 1.


This is correct. Grey Knights inherently have Rites of Exorcism.



There are special psychic attacks that the Inquisitor can use to either create a zone of Sanctuary around himself and his unit, or destroy daemons. I am not sure if it can affect Possessed CSMs, Defilers, Soul Grinders or CSM vehicles wich are daemonically possessed though?

If he's using this, refuse to play him with daemons. This is literally the most broken rule in the entire game, by far. No reasonable player should ever, ever use this, as it is the single closest thing to an auto-win button in the entire game.




Ye,s he has been shooting at multiple units. He said he got confirmation from GW themselves so I checked up on it.

I sent an email Inquiry to GW's head office in Australia. They confirmed that with 2 mystics, he could target multiple units of daemons arriving within 4D6" of the Inquisitor model, and they could be shot at by any friendly unit within 12" of the Inquisitor model.

They also said this was a special rule, a "free shot" taken out of turn order, and that any unit shooting at the daemons or deep striking units could move and shoot as they normally would in their own turn. It was not a form of overwatch, and that the same unit could shoot multiple target units.


This is correct as well. Just don't try and deepstrike within 2d6" of him with a unit he can easily shoot up.


O
It sounds like this guy is bending a lot of rules and in some cases just lying and cheating.
I just wouldn't play him anymore if there are other players and you could actually be having a good time with.

I'd agree, to a certain extent. I'm not sure if he's actually bending any rules, as Daemonette don't seem to know the Grey Knight rules quite well enough to say if he is cheating for certain or not.

However, it doesn't sound like he's much fun to play. Find someone you'll have more fun playing against.

[Connjurus]

You misunderstood me. I meant "taking free shots with multiple units" against your deepstriking units.

[Daemonette666]

One thing I saw that no one has corrected yet.
You said that he puts his Inqusitor lord into a unit of Grey Knights; he's not allowed to do this.

A lord MUST take a retinue of 3-12 henchman, he must be placed in this unit and as long as that unit is alive, the Lord in not an IC (he cannot leave it); that means no GK special rules like shorunding, etc. And makes it a nice soft and easy target.

Also, if he is using a sancuary zone power, I want you to know that the whole unit using it is not allowed to do anything else [just incase he's also moving it around or shooting you with it; he sounds like the kind of guy that would].


It sounds like this guy is bending a lot of rules and in some cases just lying and cheating.
I just wouldn't play him anymore if there are other players and you could actually be having a good time with.
An Inquisitor Lord is an Independent character if he/she does not take retinue or the retinue is killed off. The Inquisitor Lord can then join other units as per the rules for Independent Characters. The following paragraph is taken from the Daemon Hunters PDF.

"Independent Character: Unless accompanied by his retinue (see below) the Inquisitor
Lord is an independent character and follows all of the rules for characters in the
Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. If the retinue is destroyed he becomes an independent
character and is free to join other units."

As per the sanctuary zone, he puts his inquisitor in front with his attached retinue, used sanctuary, then shot me up with his other units. namely the 2 other GK units.

I have had about 4 games against him when he used witch Hunters or Daemon hunters. 2 when he could take allies, 2 when he could not. He used to take an Imperial Guard army with an Inquisitor lord as his 2nd HQ including retinue, his Assassin as an elites choice.

He swapped and changed his army around all the time so I cannot remember what he used in any particular game, however I know he used a Witch Hunters Inquisitor in one game and used 2 units of Psyker battle squads and 2 manticores during that game.

I have not played any games against him since he smashed my army in the last game where I used 2 x Thousand Sons squads, a vindicator, and a unit of CSM with Las cannon sitting in cover. I think I had a chaos lord with daemon weapon leading that force.

Since then he has been reading the stores copy of the new Warhammer rules book, and looking for any rule quirks. He has made up an Empire army list, and he was playing Fantasy on the Saturday of the new Warhammer Rule Book release.

I thankfully got in 2 games of 40K. the 1000 point game I soundly beat the Spacewolf player, and as he had only been playing for 9 months, Both myself and another player gave him tips for his army after the game.

My second game was an anihhilation game, 2000 pts against a seasoned Blood Angels player. He had 2 power HQs, and 2 Elite units of Independant characters. Corbulo, and a squad of 3 Sanguinary priests which he split off to the units. He made one Sergeant Sanguinare's Chosen, and with 2 assault squads, a tactical squad, and 2 fast Vindicators, he proceeded to assault my army which also wanted to assault him. I had Kharn wih a squad of Berserkers in a landraider, a Defiler with Twin Las cannon, 2 squads of noise marines with doom sirens, only one had a Blast master, and both were in rhinos. The were 2 squads of Iron warriors with icon of chaos glory, and a lascannon and 2 Obliterators.

In the end it could have gone either way I finaly wiped out the last of his troops on my side of the board, and then pot shot at his tactical squad sitting in a building, which ran away in the last turn, but did no leave the table. I only had the 2 Obliteraors, and an intact Iron Warriors squad left. If I had not wiped out the last of his Terminators,with my plasma cannon (obliterators), and rapid fired at corbulo, I would have lost. In all it was an enjoyable game, even if I had lost the game to bad rolls against his troops in the last 2 rounds.

[Daemonette666]

You misunderstood me. I meant "taking free shots with multiple units" against your deepstriking units.
I see what you meant now. No he did not shoot 2 or more units within 12" of his Inquisitor, at each of my squads of daemons arriving within 4D6" of his Inquisitor model.

What he did wrong was measure the 4D6" from the closest model in his Retinue to my unit, which I have since found out from GW is illegal. Also the units he used within 12", some were more than 12" away from his Inquisitor model, but not from other models in his retinue. Also Illegal. So I think I can ignore that defeat.

This was a game back when he could take Daemon Hunters as allies to Imperial Guard.

Thanks for the feed back I wold probably consider this thread closed. I hope you guys got as many tactics and clues on how to fight Grey knights and Inquisitors with CSM or Daemons, as I did.

But when the new Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters Codexes come out next year (acording to rumours), then I will have to read the new rules carefully and work out new tactics.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[Connjurus]

Well, the whole allied Inquisiton/IG thing is pretty lame anyway, but I would say that against IG/Inquisition forces, Thousand Sons are a bit expensive for what they can do - don't get me wrong, they're my favorite cult troop and my favorite Legion, fluff-wise, but close-combat is the name of the game, as we've said.

1,000 points, bring Kharn for sure. For his points, he's excellent, and you don't really have the points to throw at something for expensive, like a Winged Daemon Prince or a stronger character. Combine that with Berzerkers, maybe even a five-man power weapon Chosen Squad (they can outflank).

Basic list, just thrown together.

Kharn
8x Khorne Berzerkers, Champion, Power Weapon with Rhino
8x Khorne Berzerkers, Champion, Power Weapon with Rhino
7x Khorne Berzerkers, Champion, Power Weapon with Rhino
2x Obliterators

See the idea? I'm not saying take this list. In fact, you probably wouldn't want to. But that's the gist of it. Now that I look at it, probably take a Chaos Dreadnought with 2x CC weapons instead. I know, people say they suck, but don't listen to them. They don't.

[DarkLink]

This was a game back when he could take Daemon Hunters as allies to Imperial Guard.


He still can. The pdfs did not invalidate allies. If you have the codex, you use the codex., and thus you may still use allies without restriction.

But you might not want to tell him that;).

[DelphicFist]

He still can. The pdfs did not invalidate allies. If you have the codex, you use the codex., and thus you may still use allies without restriction.

But you might not want to tell him that;).

Plus GW recently said that that was a misprint in the North American PDF. So you can indeed ally.

If I find the link I will post.

[Daemonette666]

I see what you meant now. No he did not shoot 2 or more units within 12" of his Inquisitor, at each of my squads of daemons arriving within 4D6" of his Inquisitor model.

What he did wrong was measure the 4D6" from the closest model in his Retinue to my unit, which I have since found out from GW is illegal. Also the units he used within 12", some were more than 12" away from his Inquisitor model, but not from other models in his retinue. Also Illegal. So I think I can ignore that defeat.

This was a game back when he could take Daemon Hunters as allies to Imperial Guard.

Thanks for the feed back I wold probably consider this thread closed. I hope you guys got as many tactics and clues on how to fight Grey knights and Inquisitors with CSM or Daemons, as I did.

But when the new Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters Codexes come out next year (acording to rumours), then I will have to read the new rules carefully and work out new tactics.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I am closing this thread. I think I have learnt evoughto know how to fight him now, if I decide to even play against him ever again.