Ork Reinforced Ram Question

[LadasN]

Well my orky brothers and sisters, I need to ask you a question.

Under the ork reinforced ram entry it says basically that I can tank shock and count my armour value as 2 higher than normal when tank shocking for the purposes of death or glory. (ex: a trukk can now tank shock, normally a fast-open topped vehicle and is considered armour 12.)

My question is this: Can said trukk now ram vehicles as well? I searched the GW errata/FAQ and have found no answers and tried to search this forum but was unable to find a result (bear in mind I consider myself forum-challenged). I am unsure as to whether they can ram or not but think they should bearing in mind this codex is from tail-end 4th and ram wasn't around then...

All thoughts welcome.

[Sir Biscuit]

Um, yes. All vehicles can ram other vehicles.

[Melissia]

Well, all mobile vehicles anyway.

[LadasN]

Or can they? Page 69 of the BRB, Tanks follow all the normal rules for vehicles, with the following additions and exceptions given below.

Thes 2 additions appear to be tank shock and ramming. I just noticed this last night. To me this appears to be interpreted as only vehicles with the type TANK can tank shock and ram.

[Melissia]

Well, I know only tanks can tank shock, that's the entire purpose behind the ram...

[LadasN]

Well, I know only tanks can tank shock, that's the entire purpose behind the ram...

Ok well I guess what I'm really getting at is: Can the ram, supposing the Trukk is truly allowed to perform a ramming move, give my Trukk +2 armour for the ram?

[Melissia]

I would say yes, but one could argue that by strict RAW it only applies for tank shocking, not for ramming.

[LadasN]

Thank you, but I have another question.

Can the Trukk (fast, open topped) ram in the first place? The rules for ramming appear to be under the same restriction as tank shock in that you need to have the type: tank in order to use ramming. Am I reading this wrong? The way I see it is that no vehicle without type: (tank) in its entry can ram.

Ex: Battlewagon: Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, open topped)
Trukk: Unit Type: Vehicle (fast, open topped)

The trukk is not a tank and so, therefore, can not ram as I see it. By all means explain how I am wrong as I love ramming my trukk into things but have to play devil's advocate here.

[sebi81]

you're right the others are wrong. only tanks can ram. ramming is located in the rule section for tanks. as said before it says "the following rules apply on tanks:" followed by the rules for tank shock and ramming. the rules for ramming additionally only say "the ramming tank" not the ramming vehicle. unless there is a special rule which allows a vehicle not counting as tank ramming it can't ram other vehicles.

raw doesn't allow a vehicle with reinforced ram to ram but i would allow it, just because the codex was written before ramming was in the rule book and its a ram... so it should be able to ram actually.

[DrLove42]

I've always seen it as they can do bohAs in skimmers, tanks and non tanks can ram and tank shock. Ramming it even mentions getting +1 to the strength for being a tank, which would suggest non tanks can do it?

[sebi81]

actually it doesn't. the +1 for tanks is just because you can ram other vehicles. so if you ram a tank both get +1. if you ram another vehicle only the ramming tank gets +1. the rules are pretty clear written, only the layout is missleading, because the header for the tank rules is located on the wrong page. it should have been on the next page. but anyways its clear, the rules for tank shock and ramming follow the header for tanks and are not located in the common rules for vehicles.

[Nabterayl]

It's true that normally only tanks can ram. However, I don't think it's quite that simple in the case of the reinforced ram. I think the deffrolla ruling makes it clear that ramming is a subset of tank shock, rather than a separate maneuver - i.e., ramming is what happens when you tank shock at your maximum possible speed. You don't declare that you are ramming - you just declare that you are tank shocking for your maximum possible number of inches, whereupon you happen to be ramming.

In other words, the reason a trukk can't ram normally isn't because it isn't a tank. It's because it can't tank shock (and the reason it can't tank shock, of course, is because it isn't a tank).

But if a trukk could tank shock, then it could also ram (provided it tank shocked for its maximum number of inches). Granted, a ramming trukk would not be very effective - even against a target 18-19" away the maximum Strength collision it could generate against most vehicles would be S6, as the reinforced ram only increases the front armor against Death or Glory attempts (meaning that a trukk could ram a walker for a maximum Strength collision of S8, so long as the walker elected to attempt Death or Glory).

[McMurdoc]

Quote from the rulebook : Ramming is a special type of tank shock move

Considering the fact a reinforced ram allows you to tank shock, I'm under the impression you can also ram.

[BuFFo]

Um, yes. All vehicles can ram other vehicles.

Sir, this is incorrect.

Only vehicles with the sub type of 'Tank' can Ram.

[LadasN]

Thank you everyone for helping me with this little prediciment lol. I appreciate all the feed back and patience with your explanations.

[Sir Biscuit]

Huh, I was mistaken. Guess I sort of assumed since it seems like most every vehicle is a "tank".

[LadasN]

Yeah, I too had assumed every vehicle could ram until I reread the rules recently but thanks to BoLS that's all cleared up :D

[SeattleDV8]

I've always seen it as they can do bohAs in skimmers, tanks and non tanks can ram and tank shock. Ramming it even mentions getting +1 to the strength for being a tank, which would suggest non tanks can do it?

Not at all , it just tells us that non-tank can be rammed.
As to the OP, well....Maybe yes , maybe no.
Ork FAQ
"Q. Can you use the Deffrolla when Ramming
vehicles or does it only work when Tank
Shocking non-vehicle units?
A. The death rolla does indeed inflict D6 S10 hits
against vehicles, as Ramming is just a type of
Tank Shock."

This would say yes.

Dark Eldar FAQ
"Q. Does a torture amp allow a Raider to ram
other vehicles?
A. No."

This would say no, (the torture amp allows the raider to Tank Shock)


So..... Hell I don't know but I would tend to say yes.
GW has not been clear....again....sigh

[Big mek]

I really thought ramming was allowed by all vehicles.. been doing it with my ork trukks since the rules for it came out, but now where we've gone over it, reading it again, and seeing it as a for of tank shok, i stand corrected, guess i cant (withoit a reinforced ram hehe) seems none of my opponents knew either as ive never had any complaints, apart from when somthing blew up as a result lol

anywho, back to putting rams on my trukks :D

[Angelofblades]

Yeah umm, if all vehicles could Tank Shock, then we would have been seeing Land Speeders Ram more often. The best guided missile ever, gets S9 for full 24" Flat Out Ram, which gives it the ability to take out AV14, and you can't use cover against it (ie smoke launchers, KFF etc)