Resin modelling question

[musical-fool]

Hello,

I am about to start the next step of my Lamenter's army project which is the vehicles.
This entails 2 dreads, two DPs and a Baal pred. The resin? you're asking.

For the two dreads I was going to fork out on two forgeworld ones.
One of them being the Ultramarine Dread for the tyrannid banners etc.
Having never worked with resin before I wanted to know how easy/difficult it is to cut away, erase or sand off bits of resin? I.E. the ultramarine symbols.

I doubt the difficulty of working woth resin will put me off the idea but I would like a general heads up and some pointers and tips if any of you Bolsers have any!

Musical-fool

[RedScorpionsGirl]

Resin is wonderful in my opinion to work with. If you've never worked with it before, I suggest reading this article (I am the one who wrote it, so if you have any questions feel free to contact me): http://redstickstudio.weebly.com/working-with-resin.html It is a copy of the "working with resin" article that was published on bell of lost souls. You can clean up resin easily with either a knife, files, or a dremel if need be, but the dust can cause cancer, so make sure to be in a well ventilated area, and/or wearing a mask.

[Kirsten]

make sure to be in a well ventilated area, and/or wearing a mask.

This bears repeating, resin dust is nasty stuff, you can feel it very quickly in your throat. So long as you take care however, it is simple enough to use, as easy to cut as plastic. The only real problem is that the resin pieces can be very thin, so go slowly and carefully so as not to damage them. There are often deformed parts too that need to be heated up and bent back in to shape. This appears to be worse with larger models, I have thirty give elysian troops that were all fine, as were my aeronautica planes, but my vulture and my hydra were nearly beyond saving. It is worth giving all the components a wash in warm soapy water too, I use a clear plastic bowl so I can see any bits hiding in the bottom, makes it easier to fish them out.

[chromedog]

There are varying levels of "nasty" with resin dust - depending upon the type and constituent chemical makeup of them.
They vary from the dust inhalation issues to the fumes and contact issues from the constituents (pre-mixed forms).

Inhaled dust is never a good thing - a good dust mask is an investment. So is usage of wet&dry sandpaper and a small bowl of water or a squirty bottle with spray selection for any sanding or filing (keep it damp and the dust doesn't go anywhere. Don't and that stuff gets airborne easily).

Use a razor saw to remove the resin 'plugs' (casting gates and vents) NOT clippers. Very often an airbubble will form behind these bits and that creates a fragile zone (clipping the bit off CAN lead to the entire model cracking).

Parts may be warped - it's a side effect (it's an avoidable one in some production volumes). A bowl of warm-to-hot (NOT boiling) water can be used to soften it and bend it back into shape. Cool water can also be used to 'lock' it.

[Lane]

There are varying levels of "nasty" with resin dust - depending upon the type and constituent chemical makeup of them.
They vary from the dust inhalation issues to the fumes and contact issues from the constituents (pre-mixed forms).


The chemical makeup of most resin models is generally very close and only makes a difference when some of the resin is partially uncured.

The greatest hazard of resin dust is the fine particles. The effect is very close to that from silica dust or asbestos fibers. The dust is not absorbed by the body and not fully cleared from the lungs. This can result in scar tissue forming around the dust, reducing lung capacity. Cancer is also a possibility but mainly from the irritation caused by the trapped dust.

Wet sand or wear a dust mask.

[chromedog]

Yes and no.

There are epoxy resins that use Methyl Ethyl Ketone as a catalysing agent. This stuff is plain nasty.
Strips paint effortlessly, dissolves plastic and resin into shapeless goo, causes birth defects and gives you cancer - just from inhalation issues (and can be absorbed through the skin as well). Brilliant. Oh and the vapour is explosive too.

Polyurethane resins use a different resin/catalyst blend that is no where near as nasty in its premixed form.
Yes, it might still be "toxic" but nowhere in the same league as MEK.

and resin dust is NOTHING like asbestos particles. Asbestos doesn't form 'dust' - it forms a cloud of very fine fibres.
Mesothelioma (THE cancer caused by exposure to asbestos) is, in comparison to other cancers, INCURABLE.

Wet sand AND wear a dust mask (or use a dust extractor)

[harrybuttwhisker]

Don't forget the goggles too as resin dust can cause open sores in moist surfaces i.e. your eyes and inside your mouth.

[Lane]

Yes and no.

There are epoxy resins that use Methyl Ethyl Ketone as a catalysing agent. This stuff is plain nasty.


question was in reference to finished parts, not casting.

When casting, even urethane resins, it's good ventilation and/or respirator plus gloves.



and resin dust is NOTHING like asbestos particles. Asbestos doesn't form 'dust' - it forms a cloud of very fine fibres.
Mesothelioma (THE cancer caused by exposure to asbestos) is, in comparison to other cancers, INCURABLE.


As stated: the effect is very close. Asbestos in high concentration can have negative effects long before Mesothelioma develops.

[Sign Ahead]

Resin sounds a little scary, but if you follow the basic safety guidelines you'll be fine. When you go to get your protective gear, find someone knowledgeable at the store who can point you towards the correct products (like goggles that can protect your eyes from particles as well as projectiles). Then, once you have the proper gear, take a few minutes to plan your project so you minimize the amount of time you spend filling the air with dust.

If you're working with finished resin models, your biggest danger comes from particles and smoke. As a miniature modeler, you're working with small amounts of this stuff, but it pays to be safe.

Our model shop at work has a strict prohibition against using polyurethane resin (or foam) with any heat-producing, high-speed or high-friction tools (like the belt sander, laser cutter or heat gun). Although it's relatively benign when it's set, it produces some spectacularly toxic smoke. So, if you're using polyurethane resin, and you smell warm plastic take a break and get some air. When you go back to work, slow down.

Once you're done with your "chip-forming" tasks (that's anything that forms chips or dust, like sanding, sawing or drilling), take the time to clean all of the dust and debris from your model, your work surface and yourself. The dust can cause some people to break out in a rash (one of my coworkers has a huge problem with this), so you may even want to shower and throw your clothes in the washer before you go on, especially if you have sensitive skin.

Also, if you have a pet, keep it out of your workroom while your work with resin, especially when you're sanding, sawing or grinding. Don't let it back in until your workroom is clean. Pets don't get particle masks or safety goggles, and they can suffer ill effects must sooner than we can. Don't be a schmuck, protect your pets!

[templarboy]

I think the "scary toxic dust" warning has been pounded in quite nicely. To be honest, you shouldn't have to sand/saw/file and otherwise create resin dust all that much unless you are building a resin titan. A couple of dreads won't create a dustbowl sized cloud of "scary toxic dust" in your home.

One thing not addressed yet is release agent. Wash your figs and parts of figs in soapy water and scrub lightly with a soft bristle brush. If you don't you will have spots, mostly in the recesses, that paint refuses to stick.

On a side note, magnetize those dreads. Having multiple arm options is really cool and prevents you from having to buy a bunch of models. Make sure your polarities are uniform and you can swap arms between multiple dreads. Plus, it is just really cool.

[Sign Ahead]

Smug dismissals aside, safe resin handling procedures are worthy of a little pounding. You're right, the amount of materials are small and most models shouldn't need much sanding (unless, like the original poster, you plan on sanding off more than the occasional surface irregularity). But it makes sense to learn how to work with this stuff correctly, in case you do end up building a titan later on.

[templarboy]

Smug dismissals aside, safe resin handling procedures are worthy of a little pounding. You're right, the amount of materials are small and most models shouldn't need much sanding (unless, like the original poster, you plan on sanding off more than the occasional surface irregularity). But it makes sense to learn how to work with this stuff correctly, in case you do end up building a titan later on.

Believe it or not I wasn't trying to be smug or dismissive. 9 or so posts on the dust issue was enough that I didn't feel the need to belabour it myself. I do have a certain way of posting that might be read as smug and I apologize for that. Wouldn't want someone to get cancer or anything of the sort. Makes me want to file off a resin mould line in full SCBA gear only though....;)

I painted 3 plague marines having disregarded the whole "wash off the release agent" advice I was given. I thought it was important to mention it so he could avoid the horror I had when I carefully put some of the ol' Devlan on my carefully basecoated FW plague marines. Watching the paint lift off and run down the fig was not at all funny.:eek:

[Lerra]

Hrm. I was planning a future project that involved some very heavy conversion work of Forgeworld resin models (Death Korp of Kreig ==> Browncoats). Now I'm thinking that might not be such a great idea considering all of the bits that would need to be removed from the DKK models. I was planning to use a dremel to remove the heads and gas mask parts. If I do my work outdoors, hopefully that will minimize the risk, though.

I'm surprised Forgeworld doesn't include more detailed safety instructions when you buy their resin models. It seems silly for a miniatures company that encourages conversions to build their miniatures out of hazardous material.

[Sign Ahead]

Hrm. I was planning a future project that involved some very heavy conversion work of Forgeworld resin models (Death Korp of Kreig ==> Browncoats). Now I'm thinking that might not be such a great idea considering all of the bits that would need to be removed from the DKK models. I was planning to use a dremel to remove the heads and gas mask parts. If I do my work outdoors, hopefully that will minimize the risk, though.

I'm surprised Forgeworld doesn't include more detailed safety instructions when you buy their resin models. It seems silly for a miniatures company that encourages conversions to build their miniatures out of hazardous material.

We've made it sound worse than it is. People work with resin every day with no ill effects. Protect your lungs, eyes and skin and you'll be fine.

In terms of toxicity, we're in a lousy hobby (although it's getting better). Paints, varnishes and adhesives are all unhealthy if handled improperly. But once we learn to use them safely, we're OK.

[eldargal]

So, I should stop sucking on my brush when deep in thought while painting then?:o


We've made it sound worse than it is. People work with resin every day with no ill effects. Protect your lungs, eyes and skin and you'll be fine.

In terms of toxicity, we're in a lousy hobby (although it's getting better). Paints, varnishes and adhesives are all unhealthy if handled improperly. But once we learn to use them safely, we're OK.

[SotonShades]

One point I'd like to make with regards to the dust issue is that of drafts. If you have a draft, but not good ventilation (the two can often be confused) you can quite easilly whip the dry dust into a very nasty cloud. Try to work where there are no drafts and use a vaccuum cleaner to remove dust piles regularly.

If you are skilled with a hobby knife, you should be able to take the majority of the symbols off the dreadnoughts without having to resort to sanding paper of files, which can again reduce the dust you produce and the risk to yourself. Of course this carries with it the danger of cutting your fingers to ribbons instead, so only attempt this if you are competant and confident in your abilities. Take your time and take breaks to keep yourself as sharp as your blades.

I would also advise keeping a ready source of low level heat on hand. It is possible to bend parts while working on them through force, as well as any mis-shapen parts from the cast process or duing transportation. Having a bowl of hot, near boiling water on hand is good. I tend to use the vented heat from my laptop on most stuff (as much as anything to avoid the risk of getting water in my laptop), but this doesnt always work for the larger componants, such as the solid track sections of super-heavy tanks.

When bending bits, try to be as patient as possible. Let the heat get right to the centre of the componant. Thios can take upward of 10 minutes sometimes, but its worth it. Make small adjustments, rather than trying to fix the bend in one go. Let the model go cold between heating as this reduces the likelihood of the componant bending back.

[Lane]

So, I should stop sucking on my brush when deep in thought while painting then?:o

At one time GW claimed all their paints were non-toxic, that's why reds and yellows had such crappy coverage.


We make working with Resin sound scary but as long as you are not inhaling lots of dust you should be OK. If the symptoms follow silica and asbestos then you will not even know for 10-30 years.

[musical-fool]

Hello to all!
Sorry about the late reply to all your hints, tips and misc. useful info work and a lack of modem have stopped me from getting onto the internet!

Anyway, a huge thanks for all the hint etc. there is a lot to know about resin working than I had anticipated!

Still, it doesn't sound all that daunting if I'm honest so I think with the summer bonuses coming up from work (fingers crossed) I will be going for the dread project!

just another question...when removing mold the release agent, how long should I soak the parts and what is the best "tool" to do the scrubbing. I'd use a toothbrush but isn't that going to take an age? Or a drummel brush but I'd be worried about ruining the resin?

The article Redscopriongirl put up suggested a proper scrubber/ electric toothbrush type tool? What have you used on your resin models?

[TSINI]

I've used a fair bit of forgeworld in my guard army, I've only used a knife and clippers for all my components, and they look fine.

greenstuff is nearly always a must have for filling in the (often quite large) gaps that occur

you can rinse off the components, but i have to say that apart from removing the odd bit of "blue sponge" from tiny crevaces. none of my components have had any trouble being primed straight out of the box.

also when it comes to bending parts (some gun barrels can be curved for example) I find simply boiling the kettle, half filling a coffee cup, and simply holding the bent part of the component in the water for a few seconds. then simply bend the part back to the desired position. you can wait for it to cool or run it under a cool tap.

[DrLove42]

Hello to all!
just another question...when removing mold the release agent, how long should I soak the parts and what is the best "tool" to do the scrubbing. I'd use a toothbrush but isn't that going to take an age? Or a drummel brush but I'd be worried about ruining the resin?


I leave mine to soak for 5 minutes, then scrub each one with a toothbrush. Doesn't take as long as you think. Then soak them again in clean, cold water to get all the mess off, then lightly paper towel dry, and then set aside to dry completly naturally.

Our hobby groups solution (and the one a lot of the FW guys use) is to wash it before building, assemble it and then base coat it with a plain grey car primer. Sticks a lot better to the resin and gives a thin coat. Then spray over that in the base coat of your choice. Works everytime for me, and i have a lot of resin stuff