Cover saves Armour saves??

[Jimmy88]

Sorry for the all the grammar mistakes and if this has already been asked and answered and if i posted in the wrong section

I just recently got into the game of Warhammer 40k , I bought assault on black reach ,some space marine tactical squads , and everything I needed to immerse myself in the warhammer 40k universe :) and for the most part I am having fun and I have the majority of my models painted.

So here is my dilemma, Cover saves and Armour saves now I tried to Google this question but still have not found a answer for it, but I did find a answer for my last question on this site so I decided that I would post my next question here. Now from what I understand when a unit is behind cover they take the highest save available (correct me if I am wrong) So my questions are

1. What happens if I take the highest save which is my models Armour save instead of the cover?? Does this mean an AP hit if low enough can actually ignore my all my saves??

2 What happens if the cover save is higher then the models Armour save and I use the cover save instead of my models Armour save.Then a enemy comes along with a flamer (or another weapon that ignores cover saves) and hits me does this mean all my saves are ignored including my Armour save??

Correct me if I am wrong on any parts of this and thank for you reading my question!
All answers and opinions are welcome :)

[Herald of Nurgle]

No and no.

AP only affects your Armour Save. It has no effect on your Cover or Invulnerable save. So if a weapon has a high enough AP to ignore your Armour Save you CAN just choose to use a different save. Remember, though, that this will mean that you cannot then use Feel No Pain.

This doesn't happen. If a Flamer ignores your Cover Save and that was your highest save, consult the AP of that template weapon as well. If that would ignore your armour save, then yeah you have no saves (unless you also have an Invulnerable Save). If it wouldn't, well...

[Jimmy88]

Thank you very much! and what is this "feel no pain rule"?? I hear this term a lot should I be concerned with it as beginner??If i do will it make the game harder or easier?? I am just full of questions aren't I :)

[Nabterayl]

Remember, though, that this will mean that you cannot then use Feel No Pain.
Feel No Pain is only denied by weapons of an AP against which no armor save can ever be taken. Whether or not your specific armor save is denied is irrelevant - a model with a 4+ armor save hit by an AP4 weapon can still take advantage of Feel No Pain.

Otherwise Herald of Nurgle is quite correct. You take your best available save - so if you have a 3+ armor save, a 4+ cover save and a 5+ invulnerable save and you are hit by an AP3 weapon, you take the 4+ cover save (and cannot choose to take the 5+ invulnerable save). Similarly if your best save was a cover save and you can't take that against a specific attack, you are indeed allowed to take your next best save.

[Jimmy88]

Thank you once again :)

[Nabterayl]

Thank you very much! and what is this "feel no pain rule"?? I hear this term a lot should I be concerned with it as beginner??If i do will it make the game harder or easier?? I am just full of questions aren't I :)
The Feel No Pain rule is one of the Universal Special Rules, which you'll find towards the back of your rulebook. It is not something you need be concerned with as a beginner, though - if a model has the Feel No Pain rule the relevant codex will so specify, and none of the Assault on Black Reach models have it (although space marine apothecaries can confer it on their squads).

The short version of FNP is the ability of some models to shrug off otherwise incapacitating wounds through sheer grit or battlefield first aid. In gameplay terms FNP allows a model that has failed its save to ignore the wound on a roll of 4+. FNP is not technically a save, and thus exempt from the "you can only ever take one save" rule, which is what makes it so powerful - you can take your FNP roll in addition to your save, which makes a model with FNP much harder to successfully wound. FNP can be defeated by Instant Death attacks (i.e., if you're blown in half by a rocket, you're dead whether you feel it or not) and by attacks against which no armor save can ever be taken.

[Jimmy88]

Thank you for the clarification on that rule :) Now I am going to start on the Assault section of the rule book and most likely I will have some questions for that section.But for now I thank you all for you helpful answers and comments.

[Herald of Nurgle]

Feel No Pain is only denied by weapons of an AP against which no armor save can ever be taken. Whether or not your specific armor save is denied is irrelevant - a model with a 4+ armor save hit by an AP4 weapon can still take advantage of Feel No Pain.

Otherwise Herald of Nurgle is quite correct. You take your best available save - so if you have a 3+ armor save, a 4+ cover save and a 5+ invulnerable save and you are hit by an AP3 weapon, you take the 4+ cover save (and cannot choose to take the 5+ invulnerable save). Similarly if your best save was a cover save and you can't take that against a specific attack, you are indeed allowed to take your next best save.
Dude i'm a Death Guard player. Generally the stuff that hits me will always deny me FnP. :P

[Culven]

Dude i'm a Death Guard player. Generally the stuff that hits me will always deny me FnP. :P
You should play against my Catachans. I will be shooting you with combined Infantry Squads with "First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire". You'll get Feel No Pain, and Armour Saves. You just have to make a lot of them or die to my puny laser pointers. :p

[Jimmy88]

I did not want to to start a new a thread for another question but...

Ok so now I have been playing a few games with myself and brothers and I am getting used too it,

So my question now is, I was wondering if I could attach different weapons to any any given squad an example would be I recently got a space marine terminator squad and I had leftover weapons from it, so I thought since my guys need some extra attacks during the assault phase I will just attach a Lightning Claw to one of my guys from a tactical squad (Or vice-versa give a bolt gun to a guy in the terminator squad).

In short is it legal for me to attach a weapon that did not come within the box of the said squad, from the leftovers of another squad (Also can I attach a terminator head to a person in the tactical squad?)

Question 2 Also can't seem to figure this one out, some of my terminator squad models have a hammer and shield. My question is does the shield have any other attributes other then looking cool?? cause if it doesn't I should just stick a pistol in the shield hand instead of a shield

My last and final question, I read that units can have a limit of 10 models within 1 unit with some exceptions, well could I mix 5 models from a tac squad with 5 models from a terminator squad and call it a single unit??

Ok well I just thought of one more question could I have a guy with a lightning claw and a boltgun
or even a guy with 2 boltguns?? or is that really stupid and not legal (no matter how cool it is :) )

Srry for all the grammar mistakes

[Nabterayl]

One of the oddities of this hobby is that the model kits do not necessarily match exactly to the game units. This is because the attributes of the units are determined by your codex, which (being a book) can be changed relatively cheaply, whereas the model kits (being complicated set-ups involving expensive precision machinery) are relatively expensive to change. So model kits change less often that codices do, which means the model kit that corresponds to a unit might have extra options compared to, or not as many options as, its current codex-legal equivalent. Fortunately, it is generally easy to look at your codex, look at a model kit, and figure out what is what.


I did not want to to start a new a thread for another question but...

Ok so now I have been playing a few games with myself and brothers and I am getting used too it,

So my question now is, I was wondering if I could attach different weapons to any any given squad an example would be I recently got a space marine terminator squad and I had leftover weapons from it, so I thought since my guys need some extra attacks during the assault phase I will just attach a Lightning Claw to one of my guys from a tactical squad (Or vice-versa give a bolt gun to a guy in the terminator squad).

In short is it legal for me to attach a weapon that did come within the box of the said squad, from the leftovers of another squad (Also can I attach a terminator head to a person in the tactical squad?)
The codex determines what is legal and what isn't. If you don't have a space marine codex (or a space marine variant codex - i.e., Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves, or Blood Angels), then you need to get one to figure out what units you can model. The short answer to your question is no, generally lightning claws are not compatible with storm bolter-equipped terminators. The long answer to your question is to get your hands on a codex and figure out if there's any way to do what you want to do (I can think of a number of ways in which it could be done).


Question 2 Also can't seem to figure this one out, some of my terminator squad models have a hammer and shield. My question is does the shield have any other attributes other then looking cool?? cause if it doesnt I mays well just stick a pistol in the shield hand instead of a shield
Again, sounds like it's time for you to buy a codex, but the short answer to your question is that some terminators can be equipped with a thunder hammer and a storm shield, and the storm shield confers a 3+ invulnerable save. As far as I know there are no codices where terminators can be equipped with pistols.


My last and final question, I read that units can have a limit of 10 models within 1 unit with some exceptions, well could I mix 5 models from a tac squad with 5 models from a terminator squad and call it a single unit??
If your codex says you can, then yes. The Space Wolves codex would allow something like this.


Ok well I just thought of one more question could I have a guy with a lightning claw and a boltgun or even a guy with 2 boltguns?? or is that really stupid and not legal (no matter how cool it is :) )
If your codex says you can, then yes. There is no codex that I am aware of that allows for two boltguns, though.

The codex controls what is "legal" - however, as you're just starting out in the hobby, please be aware that what is "legal" is what your opponent is willing to play against. What the codices really do is provide the rules for playing with models that are equipped in a certain way. Thus, for instance, a model with two boltguns is not "legal" in that no codex contains rules for playing with such a model. However, if your opponent allowed it, you and he could certainly come up with rules for such a model.

Many people prefer to stick to the codex, on the grounds that (i) any stranger should be willing to play against a codex-only army, whereas a stranger might not be willing to play against your homebrewed rules, and/or (ii) codices receive at least some modicum of playtesting and professional design expertise, and are theoretically more "balanced" than homebrewed rules, and/or (iii) codices generally do a good job of representing the fluff of the army they portray. However, there are also many people who like to invent new house rules in the name of fun, balance, or fluff.

In short, while you should absolutely get yourself a codex at this point in your growth as a player, please don't feel that there is no room for creativity either!

[Jimmy88]

Ye I knew I needed to get a codex, but for the time being my wallet is not permitting me to. But ye i will defiantly get on it and you are a fast one for answering my questions thank you!!This may be another case of getting the codex but another question if you will, now the tactical squad came with some extra weapons and this weird thing I cannot even begin to describe so I was wondering what the hell are these guns named?If you know what I am talking about it came with Boltguns and Bolt pistols, a flamer, a rocket launcher, and 2 extra weapons which for now I am assuming they may be plasma weapons until I read other wise or until I get a codex so if you know what I am talking about please comment and once again thanks!

[Renegade]

Thats probably a Plasma cannon and a Heavy Bolter.

[Culven]

This may be another case of getting the codex but another question if you will, now the tactical squad came with some extra weapons and this weird thing I cannot even begin to describe so I was wondering what the hell are these guns named?
Page 101 of the Space Marine codex shows many weapons used by the Space Marines and what they are called. It is very helpful for a new player who is trying to learn what various imperial weapons are on their models as well as on the enemy.

[BlacknightIII]

I think its time you pick up your marine codex as it will have most of your answers in there.

[Nabterayl]

Ye I knew I needed to get a codex, but for the time being my wallet is not permitting me to. But ye i will defiantly get on it and you are a fast one for answering my questions thank you!!This may be another case of getting the codex but another question if you will, now the tactical squad came with some extra weapons and this weird thing I cannot even begin to describe so I was wondering what the hell are these guns named?If you know what I am talking about it came with Boltguns and Bolt pistols, a flamer, a rocket launcher, and 2 extra weapons which for now I am assuming they may be plasma weapons until I read other wise or until I get a codex so if you know what I am talking about please comment and once again thanks!
If it's in a tac squad frame, I believe you're looking at a plasma gun and a plasma pistol.

[Jimmy88]

Have no fear!! I have got the marine codex, now I can see the pretty pictures that match these guns and the person that said plasma gun and pistol was correct. The codex is really helpful but I do not like the pricing of the codex which I think is the most expensive out of all the armies, compared to my brothers buying of the tau codex >< But at last I can crush his tau army with my mighty space marines!!With the help of the codex of course thank you all :)

[wolflold]

Question for you! Do you have the rule book? Do you have the Codex: Space Marines? Its al explained in these books! And maybe you should go to a local GW and they will give you lessons "how to play 40k"

[Torcano]

Unfortunately it sounds like this guy probably ruined a few squads by modelling random wargear from different units unknowingly before he got his codex!

[Culven]

The aren't necessarily ruined. The guys may just need to be reassigned to other squads at a later time.

[Jimmy88]

I ruined 1 guy :( So I just attached a chainsaw blade instead of that lightning blade, and yes I currently have the rule book and Codex. Also I can now say I can play a game only glancing at the rule book, currently my brother is painting his Tau and my next question is do you have any suggestions to aid me in the fight against the tau?? Even though my brother is a nub and has never played tau or any other army cept the orks for a few games :P

[SeattleDV8]

Get into Close Combat as soon as you can.
Tau shooting is the best in the game, alas they pay for this by having the worst CC.
Use cover as much as you can.
Deep Strike and Outflank and even Scout moves to get your units close, also use transports.
Anything to reduce the amount of shots that your units take.