Aspects of the hobby, 3, 4 or more?

[Aldramelech]

There has been much discussion on here of late about aspects of the hobby and many arguments as to whether any one aspect is more important then the others.

Those aspects are: Gaming, Modeling, Painting.

But have a couple of others gate crashed the party in the last couple of years?

Photography: The advent of cheaper digital cameras has made this much more accessible and on some sites (Cool mini or not) people now seem to be being judged on the standard of their photography skills as much as the subject matter. BOLS itself has a thriving gallery and the painting and modeling threads overflow with high quality images. I find Photography frustrating, sometimes I get good shots and sometimes I don't, but I don't understand why. Has anyone here taken a photography course for the sake of the hobby alone?

Education: The Battlefront FOW forum now has a "Flames of War for Educators section. Now there are obvious reasons for this, from a historical point of view. But does the larger hobby have a place in education? There are the obvious benefits to maths.

Are there any other aspects that you can think of that don't normally get mentioned?

[CitizenZero]

There are 4 "Pillars of the Hobby" which GW trains it's employees about...Panting, Gaming, Modelling and Collecting.

Collecting being one that you hadn't previously listed...precisely the reason all those Collector's Edition books sold out so quick...

Another one is definitely Socializing to me. There is an inherent face to face social aspect to our games, something that could never translate into computer games for example...

[Mauglum.]

Double Post.

[Mauglum.]

Hi Aldramelech,
IMO you have missed the biggest part of the Table Top Minature Games hobby.Social interaction!
I can sit on my own being creative .But to me the best part is the talking about what you enjoy with other like minded people , not necisarily just playing a game , but in general.
The sense of belonging to a group often inspires and helps people to develop in a much wider sense of the word than individial hobby skills.

CitezenZero.
Collecting appears to be listed seperatley in the 'GW hobby', as selling product to customer is more important to GW plc than what the customer does with GW product!

TTFN

[Aldramelech]

Perhaps in a world where the next generation are a pale and sickly bunch who are glued to screens, the education and social aspects would find benefit from each other? Perhaps the game can be a tool to teach the dying art of soical interaction?

So we have a possible 7 now:

Painting
Modeling
Collecting
Gaming
Education
Photography
Social interaction

[CitizenZero]

CitezenZero.
Collecting appears to be listed seperatley in the 'GW hobby', as selling product to customer is more important to GW plc than what the customer does with GW product!

TTFNNot entirely. The collectors range is a good example of GW catering to the people who collect things out there...true, there is no reason for me to own the Animosity Orcs for example, but I still do.

It's the same as when people have cool out of print models such as the Female Imperial Guard models or even things like the Harry the Hammer or older WD models...they are rare, and not everybody has them.

What those classifications help to do is to figure out WHY different people may like the same product for different reasons...so the end result ideally is helping Games Workshop employees to sell more people things they want.

[Shavnir]

The hobby is built on the pillars of building lists, playing the game and arguing about rules. If GW didn't intend for these to be the relevant pillars of the game they wouldn't have setup the game with shoddy rules that are more influenced by army composition than gameplay.

[Grabnutz]

Then there's the more recent Video Batreps. Some of these have become minor web-classics in their own right with music soundtracks, stop-motion animation etc. Poeple are not just reporting battles anymore they are storytelling.

[razcalking]

As a teacher it would be a tough fit to work 40K into any rigorous curriculum like Math. I have, however, had students submit painted models as Art projects and write Language Arts stories in the 40K universe.

I do run a 40K gaming club at the school, and I can appreciate its benefits to the students in that situation. I describe it to wary parents as giving the same benefits as chess - planning, logical thinking and risk taking, sportsmanship, etc.

[Lerra]

Fluff and storytelling are huge aspects of the game, imo. We can't leave those out.

[Melissia]

Perhaps in a world where the next generation are a pale and sickly bunch who are glued to screens, the education and social aspects would find benefit from each other? Perhaps the game can be a tool to teach the dying art of soical interaction?

So we have a possible 7 now:

Painting
Modeling
Collecting
Gaming
Education
Photography
Social interaction

Add Background/Lore to that.

Without the lore, the game, the models, etc, are nothing to me.

[scadugenga]

Add Background/Lore to that.

Without the lore, the game, the models, etc, are nothing to me.

Agreed.

The immense depth to the storyline is what makes 40k a game worth playing. It's certainly not the rules.

Although the quality of the miniatures line doesn't hurt either.

[CitizenZero]

The hobby is built on the pillars of building lists, playing the game and arguing about rules. If GW didn't intend for these to be the relevant pillars of the game they wouldn't have setup the game with shoddy rules that are more influenced by army composition than gameplay.Yes! Plus don't forget the internet. If we were to ever stop complaining about GW, they would cease to exist...like not believing in faeries.


Fluff and storytelling are huge aspects of the game, imo. We can't leave those out.Yes! (Not sarcastically though.)

[HsojVvad]

I would have never thought of socialization as an aspect of the hobby. It could be a by product of the hobby but I wouldn't consider it part of the hobby.

Let's see, some like to collect, so they buy GW stuff. Some like to paint, so they buy GW stuff. Some like to game, so they buy GW stuff. If someone wants to socialize they buy GW stuff? Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to the bar or even the park or mall to socilize instead of buying GW stuff? What about chat forums or dating sites or services. I don't think socilizing is part of the "Hobby" but a by product of it.

[Aldramelech]

So we have:

Painting
Modeling
Collecting
Gaming
Education
Photography
Social Interaction
Story Telling/Story writing (Or fluff if you prefere)

[CitizenZero]

I would have never thought of socialization as an aspect of the hobby. It could be a by product of the hobby but I wouldn't consider it part of the hobby.

Let's see, some like to collect, so they buy GW stuff. Some like to paint, so they buy GW stuff. Some like to game, so they buy GW stuff. If someone wants to socialize they buy GW stuff? Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to the bar or even the park or mall to socilize instead of buying GW stuff? What about chat forums or dating sites or services. I don't think socilizing is part of the "Hobby" but a by product of it.Yeah, I could see that perspective. I suppose I just lump it in with the other stuff, because in many ways socializing is an essential part of the hobby.

[Aldramelech]

I would have never thought of socialization as an aspect of the hobby. It could be a by product of the hobby but I wouldn't consider it part of the hobby.

Let's see, some like to collect, so they buy GW stuff. Some like to paint, so they buy GW stuff. Some like to game, so they buy GW stuff. If someone wants to socialize they buy GW stuff? Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to the bar or even the park or mall to socilize instead of buying GW stuff? What about chat forums or dating sites or services. I don't think socilizing is part of the "Hobby" but a by product of it.

I suppose you could lump in socializing with gaming.

[BuFFo]

Painting
Modeling
Collecting
Gaming

I will stick with these four.

[Melissia]

Aldramelech: And you could do something similar with the Lore, with Dark Heresy actually being successful unlike Inquisitor.

[DarkLink]

I suppose you could lump in socializing with gaming.

Probably. Very few players actually play simply to win. Even the most competitive players play to compete with their opponent, not to win per se, irrevocably tying the gaming to the socializing in all but a few rare cases.

[Cossack]

There are 4 "Pillars of the Hobby" which GW trains it's employees about...Panting, Gaming, Modelling and Collecting.

I need to expand the Panting aspect of the hobby. That's where I'm weakest.

[Aldramelech]

So we are saying there are core aspects and fringe aspects that shoot off from them?

[Melissia]

And what a core or fringe aspect of a hobby is depends on who you ask.

For me?

Core aspects = lore, gaming
Fringe aspects = painting, modeling, collecting.

[Aldramelech]

This is very true. I would say (and not in order of importance)

Core:

Painting
Modeling
Collecting
Gaming

Fringe:

Story telling/writing, Fluff, Lore or whatever you want to call it.
Photography
The Social aspect
Education

With such wide ranging aspects and fringe aspects it is a fact that everybody will feel differently about it.

[Cossack]

That's an interesting point. I know in the recent Astronomicon tourney there were scores for army list construction and having a themed display board for the army. I've never done either of these! So it was my first attempt at writing a background story and putting together a fluffy written list (with photos of units). I didn't get the display board done though....did I fail? Is that expected?

[DarkLink]

I'd say that rather than calling them fringe aspects, they'd be more like accessory aspects. They're little side things that add to the core aspects. I'm sure most everyone has taken a picture of a game at some point in their career, even if they don't do it regularly. And while few people are in it exclusively for the fluff, even the most hardcore competitive gamers still enjoy the fluff.

[Mauglum.]

Hi again.
Which hobby are we discussing here?
The 'GW hobby' tm.
Or the table top minatures games hobby?

As the associated aspects fall into 2 seperate catagories.

Hobby aspect , modelling-building converting and painting.Improves manual skills like hand eye co-ordination etc.

Gaming aspect , social interaction, organisational skills, and general maths and language skills.This improves more cerebral skill sets.

I would class photography and narrative as enhancing skills to both catagories.(As both aspects can be achived without any narative or photographs.)

I would say in the wider TTMG hobby ,building up a usable force/ army , is part of the gaming aspect.

Collecting is such a vauge notion.Technicaly anyone with more than one minature has a 'colection' :D.

And collecting unbuilt ,let alone unpainted minatures is not realy acknowledged by the general TTMG hobbiests as a valid hobby activity.
'Oh you spent some money , big deal!Unless you breath life into your bits of plastic and metal ,by painting or playing , whats the point!'

GW include 'collecting minatures' eg just buying Citadel Minatures, as they get a sale.
And GW dont care if you spend £3000 on Citadel Minatures and just keep them in boxes in your attic.
But it hardly qualifies as a hobby does it?

The hobby is about taking lifless lumps of plastic and metal , and using skill and imagination to make them so much more.Isnt it?

TTFN

[Aldramelech]

Hi again.
Which hobby are we discussing here?
The 'GW hobby' tm.
Or the table top minatures games hobby?

As the associated aspects fall into 2 seperate catagories.

Hobby aspect , modelling-building converting and painting.Improves manual skills like hand eye co-ordination etc.

Gaming aspect , social interaction, organisational skills, and general maths and language skills.This improves more cerebral skill sets.

I would class photography and narrative as enhancing skills to both catagories.(As both aspects can be achived without any narative or photographs.)

I would say in the wider TTMG hobby ,building up a usable force/ army , is part of the gaming aspect.

Collecting is such a vauge notion.Technicaly anyone with more than one minature has a 'colection' :D.

And collecting unbuilt ,let alone unpainted minatures is not realy acknowledged by the general TTMG hobbiests as a valid hobby activity.
'Oh you spent some money , big deal!Unless you breath life into your bits of plastic and metal ,by painting or playing , whats the point!'

GW include 'collecting minatures' eg just buying Citadel Minatures, as they get a sale.
And GW dont care if you spend £3000 on Citadel Minatures and just keep them in boxes in your attic.
But it hardly qualifies as a hobby does it?

The hobby is about taking lifless lumps of plastic and metal , and using skill and imagination to make them so much more.Isnt it?

TTFN

Depends on who you are. I dont play with unpainted figures and buying figures and never taking them out of the packet aint my idea of fun but there are lots of people out there who do just that.

No less valid then stamp collecting.

[Melissia]

Hi again.
Which hobby are we discussing here?
The 'GW hobby' tm.
Or the table top minatures games hobby?

As the associated aspects fall into 2 seperate catagories.

Hobby aspect , modelling-building converting and painting.Improves manual skills like hand eye co-ordination etc.

Gaming aspect , social interaction, organisational skills, and general maths and language skills.This improves more cerebral skill sets.

I would class photography and narrative as enhancing skills to both catagories.(As both aspects can be achived without any narative or photographs.)

I would say in the wider TTMG hobby ,building up a usable force/ army , is part of the gaming aspect.

Collecting is such a vauge notion.Technicaly anyone with more than one minature has a 'colection' :D.

And collecting unbuilt ,let alone unpainted minatures is not realy acknowledged by the general TTMG hobbiests as a valid hobby activity.
'Oh you spent some money , big deal!Unless you breath life into your bits of plastic and metal ,by painting or playing , whats the point!'

GW include 'collecting minatures' eg just buying Citadel Minatures, as they get a sale.
And GW dont care if you spend £3000 on Citadel Minatures and just keep them in boxes in your attic.
But it hardly qualifies as a hobby does it?

The hobby is about taking lifless lumps of plastic and metal , and using skill and imagination to make them so much more.Isnt it?

TTFN

You can definitely enjoy 40k without ever touching or spending money on a miniature, so that's not necessarily what it's about.

[Aldramelech]

You can definitely enjoy 40k without ever touching or spending money on a miniature, so that's not necessarily what it's about.

Lots of people out there reading Black Libary who dont play at all......

[Melissia]

Lots of people out there reading Black Libary who dont play at all......

And then there's plenty of people who play Dark Heresy / Rogue Trader without playing 40k. And even more people playing Dawn of War and its sequel as well (in fact, possibly more people have played DoW and DoW2 than have ever played 40k).

[DarkLink]

Lots of people out there reading Black Libary who dont play at all......

Right (though as far as I'm concerned, I've found much better books elsewhere and don't read from the Black Library).

[Mauglum.]

Hi .
Just to clarify.
I was talking about the Table Top Minature Game hobby.
So touching minatures at some point is a bit of a necessity!:D

Some people read history books and play historicaly based computer games.
These hobbies are Reading and PC-Console Gaming.

They are only part of the 'historical wargameing hobby' if the particpants ALSO play historical wargames.

GW plc try to include absoutely every assocoated product ,(to upsell it) in thier 'GW hobby.'
As the 'GW hobby' tm promotes selling GW product above all else!

According to GWplc , just spending money in a GW store is a valid part of the 'GW hobby'.:rolleyes:

TTFN

[Melissia]

Hi .
Just to clarify.
I was talking about the Table Top Minature Game hobby.
So touching minatures at some point is a bit of a necessity!:D

And we are talking about the 40k hobby.

[Mauglum.]

Hi Melissa.
When people say 'the hobby' I assume they are refering to the wider Table Top Minature Games hobby, or the even wider ' wargames hobby'.

If they are refering to 'all products that GW plc and its associated sub companies produce relating to a particualr game.'

Then 'the 40k hobby ' as you satated makes it much clearer, and precise.

As I dont see the '40k hobby' or the 'GW hobby' as anything but self-restricting.
I will this thread now...

TTFN.

[Aldramelech]

Hi Melissa.
When people say 'the hobby' I assume they are referring to the wider Table Top Miniature Games hobby, or the even wider ' wargames hobby'.

If they are referring to 'all products that GW plc and its associated sub companies produce relating to a particular game.'

Then 'the 40k hobby ' as you stated makes it much clearer, and precise.

As I don't see the '40k hobby' or the 'GW hobby' as anything but self-restricting.
I will this thread now...

TTFN.

To be fair Mauglum, this is the 40k general discussion area so when I posted here I was thinking about 40k in particular.

Unfortunately BOLS does not have a general wargames thread, wish it did.