PDA

View Full Version : wraithguard in harlequin armies



dvs1
06-25-2010, 01:49 AM
Would it be totally inconceivable that a harlequin army would also include wraithguard? I was thinking that my troupe isn't above grave robbing, and have taken to using departed eldar souls to feed to the meat grinder, instead of their own dwindling kindred. As far as wraith bone technology and constructs go I don't see why not as they both frequent craft worlds, and may be able to enlist the aid of any like minded bonesingers they meet. In game terms, it would allow me to fill up troop slots without having to include guardians and the like. I'm not sure how i feel about rangers/pathfinders as mimes, even though I know they are moving towards aspirants(SG w/ enhance-lock) nowadays. So watcha think?

The AKH
06-25-2010, 06:57 AM
By straight fluff, it makes more sense that actual Rangers or Pathfinders (Outcasts) would be accompanying the troupe, as they both sort of wander through the webway.

Although you've got the beginnings of a tidy little explanation for Harlequin Wraithguard there.

harrybuttwhisker
06-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Erm no lol eldar absolutely abhor the idea of reawakening the spirits of the dead eldar into wraithbone chassis, be it wraithguard or wraithbone and will only do it in the direst of times. Plus harlequin troupes aren't an army they are a troop all those that follow it are someway involved in the performance.

This sounds a little too much like trying to create fluff to excuse using models that don't fit a theme for gaming effectivemess. Im not saying you cant have wraith constructs and harlequins in the same army, its just its not a harlequin army anymore.

thelonegrif
06-25-2010, 01:15 PM
there was a experimental dex for harle's back for 3rd ed and a fan based one released for 5th though there is a entry for a variant of the wraith lord it is not possessed by a dead eldarbut rather the spirit of the lauging god so no there cause to use wraith guard in a harle army nor is there any variant in a harle army
PS i would build a harle army if GW released a Dex for them but alas dream wil be dreams

dvs1
06-25-2010, 01:47 PM
So what your saying har, is that eldar absolutely abhor reanimation so much, that they have hosts of them in the various craft worlds, throughout the galaxy via wraith armies, and lords.. I understand that it is a big religious taboo for them to abuse the dead, but they are few, and war is many and it does happen...frequently. I'm just saying my troupe goes around either collecting battlefield remains, or perhaps extort it from their kin, in return for their priceless entertainment services.Plus I have an awesome modeling idea that involves marionettes. According to the current fluff, do all harlies not wear spirit stones anymore? I swear at one point in the past only the solitare went without one. I've visited the other sites to see their fan 'dexes and some odd reason, many of them have the wraith lord as an SM dreadnought ripoff. Something like a dying eldar is placed within the shell so it may fight on ...and all that. I prefer a wraith lord chassis with puppet strings ftw. Gotta be honest though, my army did start off strictly as a spirit host/ whatever army, but I have found that I like the harlequin concept so much, I'm willing to redo a bunch of stuff fluff/modeling/lists to accomplish this goal. I just really needed to fill in the troop choices without only taking rangers and the like.

Gotthammer
06-25-2010, 02:36 PM
Currently Harlies don't wear stones - they are absorbed by the Laughing God when they die. The Solitaire has to be fought over due to their funky powers. The ritual of becoming a Harlie involves being possessed by a Slaaneshi daemon, and having it cast out (becoming Illuminated), dying, or in the case of Solitaires, having their sould displaced by the daemon but their original not being returned so it's still technically in the warp.

For how that can work with Wraithguard, the RT rules for Harlequins does mention they use dreadnoughts (as they were then) to do the robot on stage (seriously) and for battlefield support.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/40k/deathdanceexact.gif


That can be translated to Wraithlords in that there were some Harlequins living/working incognito on a craftworld (the RT Harlie article has it happen with a Solitaire) and they are killed whilst disguised. The spirit stone they wore to blend in captures their soul and your Troupe collected it, putting it in a special Wraithlord until their 'final' death.
If using units of Wraithguard make them a 'special' Troupe for such instances, collecting all the Harlequins who have been interred in spirit stones in the galaxy.

The AKH
06-25-2010, 04:10 PM
Iyanden is the only Craftworld that fields Wraithguard en masse, due to them taking such horrendous casualties in the war against Hive Fleet Kraken.

With regard to the Solitaire - I don't think there's any contest over the Solitaire's soul. The Solitaire forfeits their soul to Slaanesh so that the rest of the troupe's souls can be absorbed by Cegorach.

dvs1
06-25-2010, 07:43 PM
thanks for the history lesson, my group and I started at about 2nd ed so a lot of the RT fluff is greek to us :D. My idea was to make the wraithguard and lords into marionettes. So now its staring to look like my troupe is starting their own harlie mortuary then!

Freefall945
06-26-2010, 11:38 PM
You're look at a pretty extensive justification for having Wraith-harlies. As we know, GW lore changes over time, and while harlequins in RT might have occasionally bitten the shuriken while kicking around on a craftworld incognito, it doesn't seem at all possible. We know now that soul-stones are individually attuned to the wearer, which means a pseudo-soul-stone couldn't catch the harlequin, and it's hard to imagine them convincing the warlocks that they just lost the last one and could use a do-over.

It's also suggested that Eldar can leave soulstones voluntarily if they choose- and if you're a harlequin, why hang out in a rock when you could become one with the cosmic joker?

Naturally go by the path that you find coolest, but might suggest, perhaps, that a warlock and his wraithguard might easilly become indentured to serve a harlequin host as simply as the harlequins do likewise for craftworlds? Wraithguard painted up in harlequin colors would be... interesting to witness!

Lordgimpet
06-27-2010, 12:37 AM
Freefall makes a good point. at the end of the day GW leave holes in lore to allow the creative spark to shine in al of us. if ya can find it get a copy of the Harlequin beta codex for 3rd ed for ideas also
I cant see why a particular Troupe stumbled apon a past battlefield and retrieved them or something
and use a shadowseer to act as its eyes instead of a warlock, making some fluff to go with your army idea
not only adds to your army but adds to the hobbie. and yeah Wraithguard in a holo scheme would look cool on the field

chromedog
06-27-2010, 06:12 AM
The "wraithlord" in THAT harlequin pic was a dreadnought (this is an important distinction), not an animated wraith construct.
Back then, eldar dreads had LIVING pilots (there were also Spirit warriors, which are essentially Wraithlords as they are now known). Harlequins had access to the former, but NOT the latter.

Harlequins are NOT graverobbers. They are (were) opportunistic battlefield scavengers, though (hence their brightly and gaily coloured and pennanted Imperial vehicles). Fluffwise, they wouldn't have them.

Gotthammer
06-27-2010, 06:32 AM
The "wraithlord" in THAT harlequin pic was a dreadnought (this is an important distinction), not an animated wraith construct.

Probably why I called it a dreadnought then ;)

dvs1
06-27-2010, 06:46 AM
Then my next question is, how would YOU field an 'army' of harlequins. I know I'm asking for a bit of a stretch with the imagination on how my army got where it was, the general consensus from everyone is, "its not in the 20+ year old GW fluff, so it cannot be true. I'm just offering an alternative to a non existent list, or at least from the hints I got so far. Apparently, harlies are so rare only a unit or two would ever be used at the same time, even though I see Pedro and Vulkan in every other 'vanilla' SM list I see. I know its one thing to justify an army that defies explanation, but its another to shoot down every unpopular theory.

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 08:41 AM
honestly the only justifacation you would have for fielding them is if you were playing a chaos army according the exp 3rd ed dex and 5th ed fan dex harle hate chaos with a passion particularly ahriman and any one involved with slannesh
ahriman because of his repeated attempts to gain entry to the black library and slannesh follows well unless you dont read fluff i dont to say anymore
but any chaos army for the most part will do it would be the same as GK and Demons

Gotthammer
06-27-2010, 09:30 AM
Well, Harlies had a full list in Rogue Trader (pre-craftworld list no less) so it's not unreasonable. They could be fighting anyone and explain it as the Harlies need to target them because the person that needs killing will later do something evil etc.

For lists you could try using (ironically) Daemons, though you'd lose out on shooting.
Run Bloodletters and/or Daemonettes as Troupers, Horrors / Flamers as Mimes, and Heralds as Death Jesters (Tzeentch) and the High Avatar. The Solataire you could either use another Herald or, more appropriately power wise, a tooled up Daemon Prince.

Using Eldar take Jetbikes as Troops, with Harlequins, Vypers and Wraithlords for support. Dark Reapers could be used for squads of Death Jesters, Swooping Hawks for a varient type of Trouper. HQ's could be an Autarch subbing in for the High Avatar and a Farseer the Master Mime.

thelonegrif
06-27-2010, 01:02 PM
i thought for fluff of who they would fight lol i feel like a re re if thats the case then use eldar models for fielding if you dont wanna go out and buy the rogue trader models then represent as such

Harlequin Unit Eldar “Counts As” Unit Dark Eldar “Counts As” Unit
Great Harlequin Autarch or Prince Yriel of Iyanden Archon, Archite, Lelith Hesperax
High Shadowseer Farseer, Eldrad Ulthran Dracon, Drachite, Haemonculus
TROOPS
Harlequin Unit Eldar “Counts As” Unit Dark Eldar “Counts As” Unit
Harlequin Troupe Harlequin Troupe Wyches
Mime Troupe Harlequin Troupe, Striking Scorpions Mandrakes
ELITES
Harlequin Unit Eldar “Counts As” Unit Dark Eldar “Counts As” Unit
Solitaire Asurman, Jain Zar, Karandras Decapitator
Shadowseers Shadowseers, Warlocks Haemonculus
Aspirant Ensemble Guardians, Storm Guardians Warrior Squad
FAST ATTACK
Harlequin Unit Eldar “Counts As” Unit Dark Eldar “Counts As” Unit
Aerobatics Troupe Guardian Jetbike Squadron, Shining Spears Reaver Jetbikes
Venom Wave Serpent, Falcon Raider
HEAVY SUPPORT
Harlequin Unit Eldar “Counts As” Unit Dark Eldar “Counts As” Unit
Death Jesters Maugan Ran, Rangers, Dark Reapers Scourges
Marionette Wraithlord (with Wraithsword) Talos
Mockingbird Vyper (with Starcannon) Ravager
this is directly out of a 5th ed fan dex i found

Freefall945
06-28-2010, 06:42 AM
There is some precedent for Harlequin armies. There would be a great deal of counts-as! However, I must try to steer you away from the idea of counts-as from completely different lists, like Tyranids or demons. Dark eldar are understandable, but plonking down a swarm of Eldar and cheerfully telling your opponent that you are using the demon codex for them -will- cause contention with some players. If you're okay with that, fire away - if not, then I commend you for stepping back from the brink of full-blown proxy-dom.

There's no reason you couldn't counts-as Eldar to be a Harlequin host, though. That is, indeed, what I would submit the Counts-As rule was included for - this kind of creative diversity.

Run a lot of Harlequins - perhaps Yriel as a kind of Harlequin Ringmaster. Deadly, fast, partially invulnerable - he fits the bill.

Wraithguard, you'd either have to borrow from a craftworld or perhaps make your own Laughing Guard - wraithbone constructs animated by the power of the Laughing God rather than the dead. Jetbikes, Vypers, Warwalkers all fit the Harlequin Quick-and-Punchy theme, and all of them can simply be piloted by Harlquins with a minimum of justification. Probably best to stay clear of the big Eldar tanks (they're overpriced anyway) as Harlequins don't seem the "mechanized" type.

Your biggest problem is troops, if you don't want to turn into a Jetbike army. If I was making the army, I'd steer clear of Aspect warriors entirely as the justification would have to be rather severe to see Harle-Avengers, or Harle-Scorpions... and Aspect Warriors are the defining feature of Craftworld Eldar, who you're trying to be different from anyway.

Rangers are legitimate choices, not indecent on the battlefield either. I'd probably consider a couple of guardian squads, too - new comers from the craftworlds, having just left their paths and found refuge amoung the Troupe. I'd paint them in wildly varying color schemes, a mish-mash-militia from a dozen different craftworlds, unified only by the path they walk (ie, the common basing on the models)... which interestingly works well with the "bright and varied" aesthetic of the Harlequins.

Hope those ideas are useful to you!

eldargal
06-28-2010, 08:47 AM
The Craftworld Lugganath has extensive links to the Harlequins, it is not inconceivable that they might allow Harlequins to access all their resources including Wraithlords/guards etc. No reason why you couldn't have a Lugganath-Harlequin themed army without even abusing the FOC.
I agree with Freefall, no Aspect Warriors. Just Guardians, Harlequins and DeadEldar.

Lordgimpet
06-28-2010, 09:24 AM
the only con I can see with wraithguard is they are not exactly mobile, slow and ponderous, goes against the agility of harlequins but its a minor con. Dreadnoughts are the same as wraithlords they have been essentially retconned to assume they have always been and for fluff the imperium reffered them as drednoughts as they perfom a similar action to their own.
still they were known for fielding warwalkers extensively in the past also

dvs1
06-28-2010, 01:27 PM
mucho domo gracias, for all those helpful suggestions. I completely forgot about craftworld Lugganath and the like. Lugganath is the craftworld whose eldar have close ties to the quins, as well as a desire to live their lives out in the webway?, or something to that effect... Did Harlies really use walkers before? I swear they did also, but can't find any fluff to justify that. So far, my Masque would consist of Harlie Troups, wraith- constructs possessed of power from the laughing god (wraithguard/lords/warwalkers), rangers (mimes?), and maybe either some shining spears ( harlie bikers), or some vypers. Bit of a stretch for some with the fluff etc. but I am fast becoming happy with the result of all these suggestions. Thanks and LMK what you think.

gwensdad
06-28-2010, 03:44 PM
My being-worked-on Harlequin army has an idea that makes some people happy with the background but pisses off some of the "purists"

Elite: (the stars of the show)
3 harlequin troupes

troops: (ROADIES! CARNIES! other -IES!)
1 Guardian squad
1 (needs to be purchased) jetbike squad

Fast Attack
Vyper Squadron (piloted by "fans")

Heavy
1 Falcon (sometimes is the transport for a 6 member troupe)
1 Warwalker (piloted by a "fan")

For an HQ, probably take an Autraich (horribly misspelled that) on a jetbike.

And I got this idea very late at night while watching Metalpocylpse.

dvs1
07-02-2010, 01:06 PM
If your going to eventually do jetbikes, think about *******izing something from both the DE and CWE jetbikes. I like the pose on the DE ones much better, and the CWE faceplate fits pretty good on top.

Kelbor hal
07-03-2010, 07:40 AM
I don't see any particular reason why the Harlies couldn't include Wraithguard-after all, it's your army. Maybe the Harlie's chose to be put in Spirit stones to fight after death, or it's some kind of punishment for some transgression.