A not-so-great beginning to 40k

[HsojVvad]

...

[Torcano]

To someone who was there at the begining or can remember back that far its probabley like standing in the middle of Rome and watching it all go to hell in a hand basket.

You didn't just compare miniatures gaming to the Roman Empire, did you?

Things change, a lot of customs that were simply don't exist any more. Its a rare hobby that isn't different in some or more likely many ways since its inception.

One thing that does still exist in society however, is manners. And treating someone like the OP was treated over something like this or at all is utterly shameful. Even if painting were a rigidly enforced rule at the store, any respectable human being would treat him with the utmost courtesy, carefully explaining the rule with an apology.

In all likelihood a store-owner with this rule would be completely happy with at least primer or some painting. I can't imagine even if I was insane about painting, not being pleased with effort and some progress.

Not everyone has time to paint an army quickly, and not letting people play for months is a sure way to make them hate the hobby.

[scadugenga]

When I play a game I like to be as immersed as possible in the setting. In my mind as I am rolloing dice I'm actually in the 40k worldm directing hte forces of my Craftworld. For me, that feeling is precious and it is not helped by unpainted miniatures and tins of soft drink on the table. I realise exceptions have to be made for newer players and those with time schedules, but if over the course of some weeks or months the player is plainly not making an effort to paint their army I will think twice about playing them. It isn't about being a snob or being elitist, it's about what I want to get from a game. I won't play poor sports or bad mannereed players for the same reason.

And goodonya for it.

The real issue at hand isn't the paint vs. non-paint crowd. The issue is being rude/elitist about it. The OP ran into two schmucks who weren't just off about his having an unpainted army, they went out of their way to berate him.

Which, to me, is unacceptable behavior.

There's nothing wrong with declining a game because it's not what your looking for in a game. People decline games all the time, and no ill will is intended or taken from it.

But there's doing it gracefully, and then there's adopting the attitude that you're (not you specifically, mind) somehow a better person just because you have painted miniatures and they do not.

Something tells me you would fall into the first category, rather than the latter. Some of the people involved in this argument however, fall firmly into the latter camp.

[Cossack]

Store owners tend to bend to the whiney 'unpainted' crowd under the mistake concept that they don't want to run off customers. Unfortunately, it actually drives away business. If the gaming tables were covered with painted armies, then shoppers would be interested and get involved.

I'm not making this up. I've built up gaming crowds in gaming stores before - when starting on 'virgin territory' (i.e. a store that isn't populated with the 'unpainted is okay' crowd) we go with the rule that figures must be painted to game with them at that shop. The group grows and grows and does very well.

When the 'unpainted is okay' group is envolved, the number of players drops and the shop is left with a set of 'regulars' to depend on filling the gaming area.

[Melissia]

Store owners tend to drive away the elitist types because they drive away business.

[klinesmith]

Store owners tend to bend to the whiney 'unpainted' crowd under the mistake concept that they don't want to run off customers. Unfortunately, it actually drives away business. If the gaming tables were covered with painted armies, then shoppers would be interested and get involved.

I'm not making this up. I've built up gaming crowds in gaming stores before - when starting on 'virgin territory' (i.e. a store that isn't populated with the 'unpainted is okay' crowd) we go with the rule that figures must be painted to game with them at that shop. The group grows and grows and does very well.

When the 'unpainted is okay' group is envolved, the number of players drops and the shop is left with a set of 'regulars' to depend on filling the gaming area.
See below post!

[klinesmith]

Sweet! I think we understand each other. Thanks Kline.

Don't take my last post personally. I do think we understand each other. I think we both love this game (as a vet and a newbie) but really I just like the crowd it draws. You and I would EASILY get along in a real life setting.


To be frank this is just a very, very, very, very interesting debate and my old success as a debater on a high school and collegiate level begs me to get involved. Ultimately we love this hobby and I enjoy anyone's company for it, despite what the forum debate might say!

[Aldramelech]

You didn't just compare miniatures gaming to the Roman Empire, did you?

Things change, a lot of customs that were simply don't exist any more. Its a rare hobby that isn't different in some or more likely many ways since its inception.

One thing that does still exist in society however, is manners. And treating someone like the OP was treated over something like this or at all is utterly shameful. Even if painting were a rigidly enforced rule at the store, any respectable human being would treat him with the utmost courtesy, carefully explaining the rule with an apology.

In all likelihood a store-owner with this rule would be completely happy with at least primer or some painting. I can't imagine even if I was insane about painting, not being pleased with effort and some progress.

Not everyone has time to paint an army quickly, and not letting people play for months is a sure way to make them hate the hobby.

I could use the decline of the USA if you prefere:D

[Chris Copeland]

I could use the decline of the USA if you prefere:D

... or that of Great Britain. :P (The sun never sets on the British Empire... not!)

/puts away regionalism... just kidding

PS You're right...

[Cossack]

Thanks for the comments kline...and I hope you end up enjoying the hobby as much as I have.

[klinesmith]

Thanks for the comments kline...and I hope you end up enjoying the hobby as much as I have.

Absolutely!