I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules!

[Aldramelech]

I went to my local GW last week to stock up the paint larder, heres the conversation I had.

Manager: Looking forward to 8th?
Me: Nope, not buying it
Manager: Why not? (shocked)
Me: I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules, you lot are having a laugh
Manager: But its double the size of the last book and its all color
Me: And how much of that is actual rules?
Manager: Well, umm, but (blusters)
Me: I don't need a section telling me about painting, races, making terrain, history, or any of the junk you've padded it out with to make it double the size, and since when were books priced in the real world as to how thick they are?
Manager: Sooo thats 5 pots of paint and a black spray, anything else?
Me: No thats it thanks.

8th wont start for me until I find one on ebay for £25-£30

Discuss.......

[Diagnosis Ninja]

I don't want to buy the hardback, but I don't really care for the races in the starter box :?I think I might have to eBay one too...

[Herald of Nurgle]

Woah. £50?

Hope you're at least exaggerating there, my friend.

[Aldramelech]

Woah. £50?

Hope you're at least exaggerating there, my friend.

Nope. I was told by another GW type that its expected to retail at around £50, and it would seem that their not allowed to tell you that without telling how many pages its got, like I care....:rolleyes:

[UltramarineFan]

Nope. I was told by another GW type that its expected to retail at around £50, and it would seem that their not allowed to tell you that without telling how many pages its got, like I care....:rolleyes:

i thought it was gonna be 45?

[Aldramelech]

i thought it was gonna be 45?

Still far too much

[fuzzbuket]

hmm when it was 4rth ed 40k i was soooo pleased to get the 4rth ed rules and i was soo happy and thaought it was a good deal.


month later 5th ed comes out


in april i decided id just get an old BRB for 99p :D iiy came with dice too :D


wait for starter box rules to come on ebay

[Nikephoros]

So you wont pay 50 for a giant book with high production value, but you'll pay 10 for black spray paint?

[Aldramelech]

So you wont pay 50 for a giant book with high production value, but you'll pay 10 for black spray paint?

Large maybe but Giant? And as for high production value, how do you know, you aint read it yet:p

[Chuck777]

The Big Rule book is designed for a small subset of people - early adopters, fluff junkies, people who game every week and new players.

If you are not one of those types of people, you can wait 2 months and buy the mini rule book for cheap on eBay.

[wittdooley]

I agree it's expensive, but it's really no different than ANY other 600 pg. book on the market (in any industry, mind you). Granted, you can get some on Amazon for cheaper due to discount, but I don't think it's that much.

Then again, after getting my first FW book, I realized how high the production quality was, how much time went into crafting every detail of them, and realized they were, in my mind, worth the $60.

[razcalking]

Ye gads, that's over $70 Canadian. I was going to use 8th as an entry point into Fantasy, but that just isn't happening.

[eldargal]

Seen it, worth it, buying it.

[twistinthunder]

i will 'LOL' if they make the mini-rulebook a 'rules-lite' situation (as they call it, they planned on doing this originally) because then you'd be really screwed.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

As far as price comparison goes with other large books, I think that is reasonably priced. In fact, for a full color book that's 600 pages that's pretty good compared to some books I had to buy when I was in college. And my college text books weren't half as fun to read ;) However, waiting for it to be cheaper on Ebay is definitely a good option if you low on cash. There is nothing wrong with looking for a deal.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

I just pre-ordered the Gamer's Edition, Engineer's Ranging Set, and Battle Magic Cards. There's not a lot to spend your money on when you are in the desert lol.

[Aldramelech]

Combat pay does have its uses.....

[DarkAngelHopeful]

Combat pay does have its uses.....

Too true lol :D

Edit: So much for being bored and having a little extra cash on hand. I just pre-ordered the Collector's Edition of 8th as well lol

[Aldramelech]

Too true lol :D

Edit: So much for being bored and having a little extra cash on hand. I just pre-ordered the Collector's Edition of 8th as well lol

Watch your back mate, make sure you get home to enjoy it all;)

[Old_Paladin]

My Gods!
I just popped onto the main website this morning (since it's pre-order day).

I was looking forward to this, really looking forward to it.
But its $90 here in Canada. Ninety-freakin- dollars, plus tax (at 15% that puts it over a hundred). I'm not putting down that kind of money right now, even though this edition looks really fun.

I'll just wait for the Island of Blood release, and hope for a minibook (I mean, only 175 pages are actual rules, the other 300+ are all fluff sections). When I want to spend that kind of money for fluff, I'll go to Black Library, thank you very much.

[Aldramelech]

Some interesting points have been raised on the BOLS front page. Some have commented that by putting the rules out of reach of many people financially they are only hurting themselves as this will encourage piracy.

I can only agree.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for them to appear on the net.

[Fizyx]

Man, I wish my textbooks in college and grad school only cost 75 bucks. Jesus, I would have settled for 150.

I do kind of wish they would have a less-expensive varient like there is for WM, but I'm still not going to complain since GW is most likely going to lose money on the rule-books, even at the price they are selling them at.

[Fizyx]

I mean, seriously, my low-cost edition, not legal for sale in the US textbooks that were only 300-400 pages long and printed on glorified newsprint were 80 bucks minimum. My larger textbooks on par with the WHFB rule-book were over 300 new.

The Warmachine army books are 150 pages, soft-bound, and are 35 bucks.

People really shouldn't complain about the price. If you want a lower cost option, just wait till September.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

Watch your back mate, make sure you get home to enjoy it all;)

Roger that! Will do!

[Lerra]

Situations like this were built for Bit-Torrent. You should be able to download, print, and make your own bound rulebook for about $10-15. I have to re-bind half of the things I buy from GW anyway, so it's really not much of a hassle.

[Col.Gravis]

Not had a chance to read the store copy yet to decide if I'll even keep my WFB army - certainly won't be paying for the book though if I do, I'll wait for ebay fodder.

[Torcano]

You kids really have no concept of value or money it seems. Please go to a local book store and find a comparably sized full-color book. It will not be less than $50, and most likely will be closer to $100, probably far over. (Thats IF you can find a full-color book that is of even close in size, which are almost non-existant).

The book industry is one that is in a severely dire situation, and even 5 years ago was many times more profitable and stable. The cost of producing books of all types has sky-rocketed recently, and full-color hardback high-quality books even more so.

As many have said, when you go to college you will truly understand what an "over-priced" book is.

Its sad that people complain about spending $75, a fair, reasonable, and actually "cheap" price considering the entertainment value you will get from it, when in a few years when they grow up and go to college they will have to pay upwards of $150 for a piece of sh*t that you will open 6 times and never have any interest in.

p.s. If you can't afford $75 for something you will use more than probably every other GW product you buy, you are in the wrong hobby. When you pay $20 for spray paint then complain about 3 times that for the RULEBOOK (that you will use roughly 50000 times as much) you are not just in the wrong hobby, you are a moron.

[eldargal]

Well, its true printing costs for large format colour have doubled in the past twelve months, but over the past ten years book sales and profits have been increasing by around 4% each year. The industry isn't facing dire circumstances. Magazines and newspapers certainly are, but not books.

I do agree with you though, I would love to pay only forty five pounds for 500 pages of full colour, it would save me hundreds of pounds a month (I'm trying to build a good reference library for archaeology and art history).


You kids really have no concept of value or money it seems. Please go to a local book store and find a comparably sized full-color book. It will not be less than $50, and most likely will be closer to $100, probably far over. (Thats IF you can find a full-color book that is of even close in size, which are almost non-existant).

The book industry is one that is in a severely dire situation, and even 5 years ago was many times more profitable and stable. The cost of producing books of all types has sky-rocketed recently, and full-color hardback high-quality books even more so.

As many have said, when you go to college you will truly understand what an "over-priced" book is.

Its sad that people complain about spending $75, a fair, reasonable, and actually "cheap" price considering the entertainment value you will get from it, when in a few years when they grow up and go to college they will have to pay upwards of $150 for a piece of sh*t that you will open 6 times and never have any interest in.

p.s. If you can't afford $75 for something you will use more than probably every other GW product you buy, you are in the wrong hobby. When you pay $20 for spray paint then complain about 3 times that for the RULEBOOK (that you will use roughly 50000 times as much) you are not just in the wrong hobby, you are a moron.

[Gooball]

I just pre-ordered the Gamer's Edition, Engineer's Ranging Set, and Battle Magic Cards. There's not a lot to spend your money on when you are in the desert lol.

Doesn't the ranging set go with the gamers edition?

Anyway, my birfday is coming up soon so i is going to start hinting (with a stick) that i'd like the gamers edition.
Those shiny, shiny things call to me..

[Aldramelech]

You kids really have no concept of value or money it seems. Please go to a local book store and find a comparably sized full-color book. It will not be less than $50, and most likely will be closer to $100, probably far over. (Thats IF you can find a full-color book that is of even close in size, which are almost non-existant).

The book industry is one that is in a severely dire situation, and even 5 years ago was many times more profitable and stable. The cost of producing books of all types has sky-rocketed recently, and full-color hardback high-quality books even more so.

As many have said, when you go to college you will truly understand what an "over-priced" book is.

Its sad that people complain about spending $75, a fair, reasonable, and actually "cheap" price considering the entertainment value you will get from it, when in a few years when they grow up and go to college they will have to pay upwards of $150 for a piece of sh*t that you will open 6 times and never have any interest in.

p.s. If you can't afford $75 for something you will use more than probably every other GW product you buy, you are in the wrong hobby. When you pay $20 for spray paint then complain about 3 times that for the RULEBOOK (that you will use roughly 50000 times as much) you are not just in the wrong hobby, you are a moron.

Nope, I think you'll find Im a man who has no debts and can afford to feed my child actually:D

[Old_Paladin]

You kids really have no concept of value or money it seems.

You sir, come across as both ignorant and a Jack-a$$... it seems.

I, like most of the people posting here, am an adult with a family and bills to pay. This is just a hobby, something that a lot of us do for fun; but there is no way in hell I can go up to my wife and say, "Honey, I'm going to spend $100 dollars on a book, for that thing I do with my little plastic men."
There are things more 'valuable' then one book, for hobby gaming.

Like a said before, If I wanted a few hundred pages of fluff and art (which is what 2/3rd's of the 'rule' book are), I'd go to Black Library. If I wanted to spend a hundred dollars for fluff and art, I'd go to black library (and I can get A LOT more pages in well written novels for that kind of money, then I'd get from this 'rule' book).


But, I guess things were different "back in the day"; right grandpa?

[CitizenZero]

Doesn't the ranging set go with the gamers edition?

Anyway, my birfday is coming up soon so i is going to start hinting (with a stick) that i'd like the gamers edition.
Those shiny, shiny things call to me..Nope...the range finder doesn't come in the Gamers ED...the Battle Magic Cards don't either...

[Lerra]

To a new player, the rulebook is valuable only as information. I don't care how many pages of fluff and pretty pictures it has, because that means very little to someone who has no idea who the Empire is and is still trying to figure out how the movement phase works. If I showed you a new game and told you that the rulebook was $75, "but trust me, it's such a well-written book!", would you buy it?

The rulebook could easily be distributed in electronic format for free, but GW chose to give us an Encyclopedia instead. Personally, I don't care if I have a physical copy of the rulebook (I prefer a digital copy because it weighs less, is easier to use for reference, and stays in prime condition after years of use). For a gamer like me, paying $75 for a rulebook is absurd.

Also for the record, paying $250 for a college textbook is absurd, but I've done it because it was required to graduate. If I had any other decent option, I would have taken it. If GW starts pricing things on the college-textbook model, they are shooting themselves in the foot. The textbook industry only gets away with their scammy business model because the students can't act as normal consumers.

[CitizenZero]

To a new player, the rulebook is valuable only as information. I don't care how many pages of fluff and pretty pictures it has, because that means very little to someone who has no idea who the Empire is and is still trying to figure out how the movement phase works. If I showed you a new game and told you that the rulebook was $75, "but trust me, it's such a well-written book!", would you buy it?

The rulebook could easily be distributed in electronic format for free, but GW chose to give us an Encyclopedia instead. Personally, I don't care if I have a physical copy of the rulebook (I prefer a digital copy because it weighs less, is easier to use for reference, and stays in prime condition after years of use). For a gamer like me, paying $75 for a rulebook is absurd.When I was a new player, the movement phase meant very little to me...I knew the models moved around the board, but it wasn't wheeling and reforming that got me hooked. I WANTED to know about the Empire...how did IT work? I WANTED to look at pictures of models, I WANTED to look at painting guides, and terrain, and pretty pictures, and "FLUFF."

Because at the end of the day, you know what was "fluff" to me? The specific rules to the game. The important part to me was all that other stuff that you personally don't care for.

For a gamer like you, the rulebook may be absurd. Fine, awesome, download it, torrent it, buy the mini-book on ebay...I can see your point.

But when I saw the amount of stuff in that book that WASN'T rules, THAT'S when I went and pre-ordered it...and 2 versions of it to boot, so now you can download it guilt-free...I bought 1 for the both of us.

[Xas]

Today I pre-purchased my collectors edition about 15minutes after I could lay my hands on the hardback rulebook.

I dont mind the price as I think compared to the other stuff you need (mainly the army itself!) even the ~100€ for the CE are neglectible.

What I do mind is the weight of the tome that GW created and ironically called "rulebook".

GW should have split the book into one section that is pure rules and the other section that is background/hobby. I wouldnt have minded if they only sold them as a bundle but a ~100pg book would be feasible to transport where the new whfb corebook is NOT.


so if it wasnt for collection value I would have just waited for a softcover booklet (or self-bound pdf printout) that I will now get in addition for gaming purpose.




in a perfect world gw would publish their rules for free as pdf and for ~5-10€ as printed softcovers and once in a while release big (hughe if they want) fluff & art supplements in good quality for an expensive price. if you splitt rules and art (and fluff is part of art) you can increase quality in both and if the quality is right people will happily pay big sums of money.

[CitizenZero]

I will most certainly be getting a copy of the Mini-rulebook as well for gaming, the same as I did the last 2 editions of 40k and during the Fantasy 7th.

I do believe that Games Workshop would make a mint if they sold those books separately.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

Doesn't the ranging set go with the gamers edition?

Anyway, my birfday is coming up soon so i is going to start hinting (with a stick) that i'd like the gamers edition.
Those shiny, shiny things call to me..

Yeah, I thought that it would include it as well, however, according to the site it doesn't. I had kind of hoped it would include the battle magic cards well, but it didn't. Anyway, good luck at getting it for your birthday! :D

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1491876&prodId=prod810017a

[Maine]

Yeah, I thought that it would include it as well, however, according to the site it doesn't. I had kind of hoped it would include the battle magic cards well, but it didn't. Anyway, good luck at getting it for your birthday! :D

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1491876&prodId=prod810017a

If you break it down (using US prices), you're paying $16.50 for the bag.

[Kieranator K82]

Just do it.

[Stukovkh]

It seems as though every time I move to a new table top game forum to get away from all the negative people I end up seeing more negative people. Every time something comes out from GW the first thing out of anybody's mouth is negative and 90% of the time its "it's overpriced". Honestly, if you cant afford the hobby then you shouldn't be involved with the hobby.


When I was a new player, the movement phase meant very little to me...I knew the models moved around the board, but it wasn't wheeling and reforming that got me hooked. I WANTED to know about the Empire...how did IT work? I WANTED to look at pictures of models, I WANTED to look at painting guides, and terrain, and pretty pictures, and "FLUFF."

I completely agree, to most new people what hooks them to the games is the fluff and the look and feel. I never cared about any rules... when I first started playing (in 1999 during 3rd ed.) I didn't give a lick about the rules, I wanted the rulebook and codex's/ Army books because of the all the awesomeness it seared my brain with... but it didn't last long because I was 10 years old and had no money... So some 8 years later when I got a real job and didn't have many responsibilities I dove right back in, and again I bought the rule books and the army books/ codex's to sear my brain all over again for the past 3 years I've probably spent more time learning this completely useless lore inside and out than I have actually 'playing' the game... the game itself is nothing to me without all the great backstory and pretty pictures.


For a gamer like you, the rulebook may be absurd. Fine, awesome, download it, torrent it, buy the mini-book on ebay...I can see your point.

This I cannot agree with, people you need to have some dignity, get a job, pay your bills, and if you have the money and time then hobby. But if you have a job and take care of all your responsibilities and still spend $50 on a piece of plastic or pewter, then you should be able to buy the book, but if you don't want to then don't, but have some dignity and don't mooch off other people or pirate it and jip people who worked very hard to appease you of their paychecks. I don't care how little it may seem its still thievery. Don't be a Cheap A$$, because again honestly, if you're married, is shouldn't be that big of a deal, your wife should not control your spending habits unless you cant afford to play the hobby at all... and if your married with kids then you shouldn't be playing anyway, but if your willing to commit to a hobby with a family to look after, then don't be a cheap A$$.


p.s. If you can't afford $75 for something you will use more than probably every other GW product you buy, you are in the wrong hobby. When you pay $20 for spray paint then complain about 3 times that for the RULEBOOK (that you will use roughly 50000 times as much) you are not just in the wrong hobby, you are a moron.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[eldargal]

I think the problem is that people want the Big RuleBook to be something it isn't, specifically, a little rulebook. This is the BRB, the foundation of the hobby with rules, painting, modelling etc. It should be big, because that is what it is. There should also be a LRB, and there is one, in the starter set which you will no doubt be able to pick up on eBay for ten pounds or so after being start splitting starter sets.

[CitizenZero]

This I cannot agree with, people you need to have some dignity, get a job, pay your bills, and if you have the money and time then hobby. But if you have a job and take care of all your responsibilities and still spend $50 on a piece of plastic or pewter, then you should be able to buy the book, but if you don't want to then don't, but have some dignity and don't mooch off other people or pirate it and jip people who worked very hard to appease you of their paychecks. I don't care how little it may seem its still thievery. Don't be a Cheap A$$, because again honestly, if you're married, is shouldn't be that big of a deal, your wife should not control your spending habits unless you cant afford to play the hobby at all... and if your married with kids then you shouldn't be playing anyway, but if your willing to commit to a hobby with a family to look after, then don't be a cheap A$$.Don't misinterpret what I said, I find the act of downloading the book insane...because ultimately you are stealing from GW and hurting the hobby as a whole. If you like anything, you should do your best to support it...you owe it to yourself.

The rest seems a bit harsh, I understand not having money...if you want to play the game, but absolutely can't afford the rules and have to download it...but it would be real nice if you bought the book when you could afford it.

I guess I just see a slight distinction between that and simply stealing for convenience.

Oh, and also...I am extremely positive on these forums!

[Aldramelech]

and if your married with kids then you shouldn't be playing anyway

Speechless

[Stukovkh]

Don't misinterpret what I said, I find the act of downloading the book insane...because ultimately you are stealing from GW and hurting the hobby as a whole. If you like anything, you should do your best to support it...you owe it to yourself.

Yes this is my point, I didn't mean that 'you' where promoting piracy, I was just building on your argument, I know you didn't mean "go out and steal it if you want" but I thought I might add my 2 cents on the subject of internet piracy because there seemed to be an awful lot of people thinking it might be a good idea on this thread.


Oh, and also...I am extremely positive on these forums!

Yes my friend thats why I chose your posts to quote from. :)


Speechless

Haha don't be offended, I meant it in the "you have better things to do" context, and simply Implying that if you have those responsibilities and still commit to a hobby don't complain about it!!! :D

[Aldramelech]

I think that you may be confused about the nature of hobbies my good man.

Hobbies are the means to escape those responsibilities for a few hours and by and large the worlds hobbists are married men.

If it wasnt for the married men in this hobby, you'd have no hobby. GW would go bust within the year.

[Herald of Nurgle]

I think that you may be confused about the nature of hobbies my good man.

Hobbies are the means to escape those responsibilities for a few hours and by and large the worlds hobbists are married men.

If it wasnt for the married men in this hobby, you'd have no hobby. GW would go bust within the year.
But, on the other hand we wouldn't have Jervis Johnson.

[Aldramelech]

But, on the other hand we wouldn't have Jervis Johnson.

Every Cloud.....;)

[Grabnutz]

I was going to rant a bit, but thought better of it, after all it is not you good people I am angry at.

The key point is this:
1. I play WFB and have done since it was first released.
2. I have invested slowly and over many years in a number of WFB armies.
3. I am a Married Man with Kids and a Mortgage.
4. The cost of the new rulebook will mean I cannot afford it.
5. I have sufficient scruples to prevent me downloading an illegal copy or mooching off my friends' copies.
6. Not being able to afford it will quickly mean I will not be able to play with those of my friends who convert to 8th or in any GW sponsored/loyal club or tournament.
7. So a loyal customer of 20+ years has just been excluded from the hobby.
8. I am not alone.

[The Madman]

this happened before when 40k 4th edition came out. 3rd edition was £25 and they released 4th edition at £35.

its up to you if you don't want to buy the new book as it's too expensive in you're eyes, but hobbies rarely get any cheaper.

i'll be buying the gamer edition but i need to wait till next thursday as thats when i get paid, hopefully it won't be sold out.

[Aldramelech]

They should have made two seperate books, 1 as is and 1 just rules for the people who didnt need all the start up stuff. It is a bit crap that I now have to compete with 200,000 others on ebay to get a rules only small book.

This is an untapped market their missing out on here.

[Old_Paladin]

They should have made two seperate books, 1 as is and 1 just rules for the people who didnt need all the start up stuff. It is a bit crap that I now have to compete with 200,000 others on ebay to get a rules only small book.

This is an untapped market their missing out on here.

I really don't understand why they wouldn't do this.

Release a mini-rulebook with only rules, call it a gamers edition for less money; have the normal monster sized book with painting and fluff sections and call it a hobby edition; and then release the even more overpriced limited editions of the 'hobby' book.


@ Stukovkh:
The negitivity is a backlash from the company rising our hopes, then kicking us in the face.
If you bother to read other posts, I was defending the new edition like crazy. I was so excited and happy about 8th.
GW was in a bad spot, fantasy is very unpopular; the company knew that if that didn't re-balance the system and get a lot of new players (or get a lot of old players back) into fantasy they might have to abandon the whole system. So they make a new system, get people super-excited about it, and turn around and pull an idiotic move like making the most expensive rule-book ever released by them, and only 1/3rd of it is actual rules.
I mean, are they just not selling enough copies of 'How to paint citidel miniatures' and 'Haraldry of the Empire,' so they shove that into the rulebook and force us to pay for it, even if we don't want or care about it.

It's mind-boggling that a company can see a situation and say "dang... it's make or break time with this entire line of gaming," then turn around and say, "we want twice as much for you to start this system."
It's called supply and demand; no one wanted to play fantasy, that means you need to make it a little cheaper and more resonable for people (that's why 40K got hit by all the price increases and fantasy was left alone). Saying people don't feel like play, so lets make it expensive to do so, is bad marketing.


I'm just waiting for the release of Islands of Blood; if that doesn't have a mini-dex, I'll have to turn my back on fantasy.

[eldargal]

The new price is not double the old price, and there will be a starter set with a mini-rulebook because that is the way GW does things. I'm sorry, but the petulent whining about the BRB not being a LRB is just uncalled for, the LRB will be in the starter set and you will be able to pick them up for a pittance on eBay. I do think GW should sell them seperately, though.
Hell if you really want, you could buy the 8th ed book cheaper from Maelstrom games (40GBP/61CAD, I'm fairly sure the current one isn't priced 30CAD).

[Herald of Nurgle]

Personally I don't see the problem with this BRB.
The Starter Set will probably turn out to be £60.
The armies will probably be H£ and $kaven.
The small 'book' will probably just have the H£ and $kaven reference sheets.
All of these make it so that I, personally, don't want to buy the Starter JUST for the small book. Likewise I despise eBay (dunno why) and thus might as well just keep to buying the BRB.

Meh.

[Old_Paladin]

The new price is not double the old price...
Hell if you really want, you could buy the 8th ed book cheaper from Maelstrom games (40GBP/61CAD, I'm fairly sure the current one isn't priced 30CAD).

You're right, the new book isn't twice as much as the old book. It went from $60 to $90, so it's only a 50% increase.
However, it was easy to cross the boarder and get the old one for $50 or less in the states (and at the time the Canadian dollar was equal to or better then the American). That's why I said it's now twice as much; because it was easy to get it that cheap with no hassle, no shipping, cheap to no tax or duty.
Pretty much no matter what I do now, it comes to around $100 dollars; when I could have gotten it for half that a year ago.


I've never heard of Maelstrom before, but they might be a pretty good way to go (I'd have a lot less of a problem paying that price; but I still like the mini-book because it's size makes life so much easier).

[eldargal]

Fair enough, the Canadian/Australian/Zew Zealand prices seem absurd, no argument there. Maelstrom offer free shipping and are selling 8th ed for £40.50 including shipping worldwide, which comes to around 60CAD. I recommend Maelstrom to my antipodean friends, its legal, moral, cheap and doesn't deprive GW of a sale so everyone wins.:)

[Aldramelech]

And who's to say your gonna be able to buy the small book (If it exists at all, jury's still out on that) for a reasonable price on Ebay? People who have got the big one will want a smaller one to stop their stupidly large book disintegrating and people like me will want one. Demand will drive the price up. This is assuming that the mass buying of box sets for people to split takes place at all. Thats alot of ifs or buts.

Sell us the small book separately, This will give them sales from people who wouldn't be buying at all and discourage piracy, how can they loose?

[eldargal]

Well, if AoBR and Skull Pass are any indication there will be no shortage of people selling the bits they don't want. I do agree that GW should sell it seperatley, but there is no point complaining about the main rulebook being the main rulebook.

[Lyracian]

A 500 page rule book, of which I will never read 400 pages. Think I will skip buying that.

As for the Starter set, I just wish they would sell the rule book on its own. You are left with a choice of either buying the book off ebay, or selling the Skaven on ebay.

[CitizenZero]

And who's to say your gonna be able to buy the small book (If it exists at all, jury's still out on that) for a reasonable price on Ebay? People who have got the big one will want a smaller one to stop their stupidly large book disintegrating and people like me will want one. Demand will drive the price up. This is assuming that the mass buying of box sets for people to split takes place at all. Thats alot of ifs or buts.

Sell us the small book separately, This will give them sales from people who wouldn't be buying at all and discourage piracy, how can they loose?The jury isn't out, there is in fact a small book. Inside of the small book it even mentions the new core set by name in the templates section. Something along the lines of "You received clear plastic templates in your Islands of Blood box" something like that.

Nobody can be sure, but if Assault on Black Reach is any indication there will be books available on ebay...you had people buying 6+ copies of it on release night for the models alone. That being said, I plan on buying a core set and trading models out of it...

I agree with the selling separately part though, it would just make sense...

[razcalking]

For people who already play Fantasy, I can see it being a worthwhile purchase. You already like the game/fluff, so it makes sense that you'd want a lot of it.

I, however, was looking at 8th edition as a way to join the Fantasy side of things. Take a shot at it even though I find the 40K side of things more inherently interesting.

There is no way I'm spending over $100 Canadian on a gaming book I may or may not enjoy or ever use.

This price point acts a SERIOUS barrier for anyone who might be looking at getting into the hobby.

[Stukovkh]

Do people really play this game not knowing anything about it except the rules?

[Old_Paladin]

Do people really play this game not knowing anything about it except the rules?

Well, I'm guessing there are a lot of people like me.
I started Fantasy over a decade ago in 4th edition, with a small Empire and small Wood Elf armies (have sold off both years ago as well). I haven't play fantasy in a very long time (since fifth); but this edition looks too good to pass up (the magic alone reminds me of the old roll dice to draw cards style; with is a nice nostalgia factor and why it doesn't hold any worry for me).

However, I own every Gotrek and Felix novel, over half a dozen short story collections and more then another half dozen full-length novels from black library. Come christmas, I'm going to add the newest Gotrek and Felix, some more of the various Vampire Counts series; and probably the Nagash novels and Greyseer novels.
I don't need this rulebook to expand my fluff experience (and I get better painting tips on the web, even the GW website tells me more then enough for my current level of skill).

So YES, I only want a book for the rules.

[Stukovkh]

Well I suppose there are some exemptions, it just seems weird not to be exited for another piece of useless warhammer paraphernalia ... *sigh* :p

[eldargal]

Don't forget that the starter set is the entrypoint for new hobbyists, not the BRB, that is why it is cheaper than the BRB and has its mini-rule book. If you want to check out WFB for the first time, wait for Island of Blood.:)

[BuFFo]

I am so glad GW decided to recycle old fluff form current army books and stick them all into this one giant book.

It is SOOOOOO what I was looking forward to buying...

[Grabnutz]

Do people really play this game not knowing anything about it except the rules?

I was playing WFB back when it had literally just been released, and remember with some fondness the game that Mr. Priestly wrote before it (Reaper).

I have grown up with the fluff, I've read all the novels, owned every edition, owned all of or read friends codices and collected White Dwarf from issue one, so no I don't need over 400 pages of glossy photographs and regurgitated fluff to be able to play the game.

I simply cannot afford 45 quid for a rule book, and as I don't collect either Skaven or High Elves so I won't be buying the starter set. Given that I am probably not alone I expect the LRB will be in great demand on the Interweb. It will be a seller's market.

So what does this new edition bring the established hobbyist?

[Aldramelech]

I was playing WFB back when it had literally just been released, and remember with some fondness the game that Mr. Priestly wrote before it (Reaper).

I have grown up with the fluff, I've read all the novels, owned every edition, owned all of or read friends codices and collected White Dwarf from issue one, so no I don't need over 400 pages of glossy photographs and regurgitated fluff to be able to play the game.

I simply cannot afford 45 quid for a rule book, and as I don't collect either Skaven or High Elves so I won't be buying the starter set. Given that I am probably not alone I expect the LRB will be in great demand on the Interweb. It will be a seller's market.

So what does this new edition bring the established hobbyist?

Same here. Im 38 years old and have been playing since my teens. I am the chairman of a wargames club of about 25 people and over half are just like me, middle aged gamers that have grown up with this stuff. Of the younger members (we dont have any under 18s, we meet in a pub) most of them are well versed in at least the last two additions. Only one member is buying into it, he already has his copy (dont ask me how, he has contacts) the rest of us are not having any of it. We are starting our 2010 league next month and will be using 7th.

I dont need 300 pages of fluff, painting and modeling. I just need the rules. Is that asking too much? what happend to giving the customer what they want?

[eldargal]

Well, I think you are really missing out on the best ruleset for WFB in a long time, but whatever floats your Black Ark.:)


Same here. Im 38 years old and have been playing since my teens. I am the chairman of a wargames club of about 25 people and over half are just like me, middle aged gamers that have grown up with this stuff. Of the younger members (we dont have any under 18s, we meet in a pub) most of them are well versed in at least the last two additions. Only one member is buying into it, he already has his copy (dont ask me how, he has contacts) the rest of us are not having any of it. We are starting our 2010 league next month and will be using 7th.

I dont need 300 pages of fluff, painting and modeling. I just need the rules. Is that asking too much? what happend to giving the customer what they want?

[Stukovkh]

So what does this new edition bring the established hobbyist?

Pride of ownership?


Same here. Im 38 years old and have been playing since my teens. I am the chairman of a wargames club of about 25 people and over half are just like me, middle aged gamers that have grown up with this stuff. Of the younger members (we dont have any under 18s, we meet in a pub) most of them are well versed in at least the last two additions. Only one member is buying into it, he already has his copy (dont ask me how, he has contacts) the rest of us are not having any of it. We are starting our 2010 league next month and will be using 7th.

I dont need 300 pages of fluff, painting and modeling. I just need the rules. Is that asking too much? what happend to giving the customer what they want?

Aldramelech... I have yet to see one positive post from you on any thread (mind you I've only been on Bols for roughly a month now...). I don't know what to say first... I mean... I'm 21, and I have been in some way involved with GW and its products since I was 10, I'm still young but thats a hefty 11 years worth of crap I didn't need to know. Every time I walk into one of my local GW's theres some middle aged gamer complaining and whining about something that has to do with a game they've been playing since they were young... its not an appealing sight especially to people who are interested in seeing what WFB/40K is about... I know when someone first gets into the game theres always one thing they had to get... the rule book. This rulebook included more than just the rules... It's been this way since you started it was that way when i started, and it will be that way when some completely clueless person walks into a GW tomorrow. No matter how much you know about this game just because you already know everything about it doesn't mean GW's gunna stop, and oh all our old people need little handy books. They do not care about the veterans who constantly talk mess about their progression, they care about the new person thats going to walk through the door the next day ready to empty his pocket for the cause. Standing back with your gang and playing 7th while the world enjoys 8th because you don't agree with the developers ethics seems a tad childish to me... but whatever suits your fancy.

[Aldramelech]

Pride of ownership?



Aldramelech... I have yet to see one positive post from you on any thread (mind you I've only been on Bols for roughly a month now...). I don't know what to say first... I mean... I'm 21, and I have been in some way involved with GW and its products since I was 10, I'm still young but thats a hefty 11 years worth of crap I didn't need to know. Every time I walk into one of my local GW's theres some middle aged gamer complaining and whining about something that has to do with a game they've been playing since they were young... its not an appealing sight especially to people who are interested in seeing what WFB/40K is about... I know when someone first gets into the game theres always one thing they had to get... the rule book. This rulebook included more than just the rules... It's been this way since you started it was that way when i started, and it will be that way when some completely clueless person walks into a GW tomorrow. No matter how much you know about this game just because you already know everything about it doesn't mean GW's gunna stop, and oh all our old people need little handy books. They do not care about the veterans who constantly talk mess about their progression, they care about the new person thats going to walk through the door the next day ready to empty his pocket for the cause. Standing back with your gang and playing 7th while the world enjoys 8th because you don't agree with the developers ethics seems a tad childish to me... but whatever suits your fancy.

Pide of ownership? If owning a set of wargames rules instills pride, you need to get out more.

I think you'll find that the first edition rule book was just that, a rule book, but you'd be too young to remember that. As too not seeing anything positive so far, I care because? If you dont like the thread dont read it. If you want to worship at the mighty feet of GW, start your own thread Fan Boy!

You wont find me in GW complaining, I dont game at GW and my visits are few and far between as I tend to shop on the internet. When I do visit I keep it as breif as possible.

My "gang" as you like to call it is a highly respected Wargames Club that play hundreds of different systems for all manner of periods and as such we do not have the blinkered view that exclusive GW only players have. Across the entire hobby prices are comming down, people are bringing out new and exciting products in plastic that we could only of dreamed of 10 years ago. Only GW are charging this kind of money for these types of products.

Veteran gamers spend far more on this hobby then teenages do. Most of them might flirt with it and eventually "grow up" and discover the opposite sex, music, golf, whatever, but the Vets are there for the long haul.

I couldnt care less about the developers ethics, I do have issue with their marketing stratergy.

And it also has nothing to do with being childish, churlish or any other word begining with "C", its got to do with value for money. I can not afford to spend £45 in one hit on a set of rules, I dont have that sort of cash. I have a wife and a child and bills to pay. But thats right, people like me shouldnt play the game or have hobbys at all should we? How dare we grow up, fall in love and have children! We dont deserve any free time to relax and enjoy ourselves. We should leave the hobby to rich kids with more money then sense.

How nice that you have a disposible income that allows you to kiss off £45 without thinking about it, Its great that your so well to do that you can look down your nose at someone like me and sneer, how wonderful that you can make pronouncements about who should or should not be in the hobby.

Now where is that Ignor button, congrats, not even Buffo has prompted me to look for it.

[Old_Paladin]

Aldramelech... I have yet to see one positive post from you on any thread.

Stukovkh, all I can say to you is:
SCREW OFF!

Aldra has left once already because he felt harrassed. And has only just now come back from being gone for three months.
You have made all of SEVEN posts, and are saying someone that's made well over a thousand posts has never said anything positive!

Maybe you should look at some of his painting logs with his dwarves or for FoW. Maybe you should look back almost a YEAR ago to some of his first posts, when he was helping people who needed advice on starting their first armies; how helpful and supportive he was.
But no, you've pretty much only posted in a single thread, that by it's very nature is going to be very critical of how GW handled the situation.
But you've never actually bother to find out about the man have you? It's just a lot easier to jump in and judge him.

Thanks a lot; this was a great way to start my day!

[Herald of Nurgle]

You know what I hope I get reported for this, but I don't care.
F#CK YOU!

Aldra has left once already because he felt harrassed. And has only now come back after being gone for three months.
You have made all of SEVEN posts, and are saying someone that's made well over a thousand posts has never said anything positive!

Maybe you should look at some of his painting logs with his dwarves or for FoW. Maybe you should look back almost a YEAR ago to some of his first posts, when he was helping people who needed advice on starting their first armies; how helpful and supportive he was.
But no, you've pretty much only posted in a single thread, that by it's very nature is going to be very critical of how GW handled the situation.
But you've never actually bother to find out about the man have you? It's just a lot easier to jump in and judge him.

Thanks a lot; this was a great way to start my day!
Well, you could look back if he didn't delete everything.

But yeah, Aldra is like AN AVATAR OF AWESOMENESS.

[Aldramelech]

well, you could look back if he didn't delete everything.

But yeah, aldra is like an avatar of awesomeness.

pmsl!:d

[Toastix]

I just want to make a comparison on price for an equal size rule book that is also in full color. The Pathfinder rpg book, it is 600+ pages of full color and runs at $50 USD. It is nothing but rules. I am someone that wants to start playing Warhammer Fantasy, but trust me I would rather spend the 75 dollars on models then I would on a rule book. I have started a new skaven army and I have already spent a lot of my money on models. I will probably buy the rulebook because I do not have a history with the fluff but it will probably postpone me from playing the game for the first time or buying models that month. I just think $75 is a little absurd. I could always wait for the starter box but idk if I want to wait that long. It will really depend on a friend that plans on learning the game alongside me if we will wait or not.

[Aldramelech]

I just want to make a comparison on price for an equal size rule book that is also in full color. The Pathfinder rpg book, it is 600+ pages of full color and runs at $50 USD. It is nothing but rules. I am someone that wants to start playing Warhammer Fantasy, but trust me I would rather spend the 75 dollars on models then I would on a rule book. I have started a new skaven army and I have already spent a lot of my money on models. I will probably buy the rulebook because I do not have a history with the fluff but it will probably postpone me from playing the game for the first time or buying models that month. I just think $75 is a little absurd. I could always wait for the starter box but idk if I want to wait that long. It will really depend on a friend that plans on learning the game alongside me if we will wait or not.

Some of my group have that Pathfinder book and had real problems with the binding because it was so large. The first thing they said when they saw 8th was "Thats going to fall apart just like Pathfinder"

[Toastix]

Some of my group have that Pathfinder book and had real problems with the binding because it was so large. The first thing they said when they saw 8th was "Thats going to fall apart just like Pathfinder"

Yeah I haven't had that issue yet, but then again I cloth bound mine. One of the perks for being a librarian I can order supplies to do that. If it comes off at the spine run some tacky glue down it and let it set for 24 hours it should reseal to the spin.

[Jakain]

Agreed. I'm not a fantasy player but these kind of books are for those who appreciate/want the worth of full color pages and the experience of looking through a quality book. Even with Kindles, torrents, and iPads - there's still a market out there for these older-school luxuries. Some people collect stamps, some collect FW models and bad *** books that also look nice on a shelf :) Personally I love looking at the high quality color photo's and artwork in GW books and still look back on outdated codices for that reason.

OP thread title is misleading since it seems to miss the point of having such a book. It ain't just about the rules. :)

Also a fan of having a cheaper version where its just the rules available through starter sets or bought separately.

Even more of a fan of having rules and high quality photo's available online; latter of which GW has been doing very well imo.




You kids really have no concept of value or money it seems. Please go to a local book store and find a comparably sized full-color book. It will not be less than $50, and most likely will be closer to $100, probably far over. (Thats IF you can find a full-color book that is of even close in size, which are almost non-existant).


As many have said, when you go to college you will truly understand what an "over-priced" book is.

Its sad that people complain about spending $75, a fair, reasonable, and actually "cheap" price considering the entertainment value you will get from it, when in a few years when they grow up and go to college they will have to pay upwards of $150 for a piece of sh*t that you will open 6 times and never have any interest in.

p.s. If you can't afford $75 for something you will use more than probably every other GW product you buy, you are in the wrong hobby. When you pay $20 for spray paint then complain about 3 times that for the RULEBOOK (that you will use roughly 50000 times as much) you are not just in the wrong hobby, you are a moron.

[razcalking]

Don't forget that the starter set is the entrypoint for new hobbyists, not the BRB, that is why it is cheaper than the BRB and has its mini-rule book. If you want to check out WFB for the first time, wait for Island of Blood.:)

I'd say the starter set is the entry point for those with no clue as to what style of army they want to play. If you're an informed hobbyist looking at starting Fantasy, it's not so good, assuming you're not interested in either of the provided armies.

[BuFFo]

Well, you could look back if he didn't delete everything.

But yeah, Aldra is like AN AVATAR OF AWESOMENESS.

Yeah, I agree. That rage quit was quite awesome.

[Aldramelech]

Agreed. I'm not a fantasy player but these kind of books are for those who appreciate/want the worth of full color pages and the experience of looking through a quality book. Even with Kindles, torrents, and iPads - there's still a market out there for these older-school luxuries. Some people collect stamps, some collect FW models and bad *** books that also look nice on a shelf :) Personally I love looking at the high quality color photo's and artwork in GW books and still look back on outdated codices for that reason.

OP thread title is misleading since it seems to miss the point of having such a book. It ain't just about the rules. :)

Also a fan of having a cheaper version where its just the rules available through starter sets or bought separately.

Even more of a fan of having rules and high quality photo's available online; latter of which GW has been doing very well imo.

And I think you have missed the point my friend, read the thread more carefully. Everybody likes nice things, some however cannot afford them.

[Stukovkh]

Stukovkh, all I can say to you is:
SCREW OFF!
Thanks a lot; this was a great way to start my day!

Mmmk, For the sake of keeping the peace, I'm going to leave this confrontation at an end as my goals are not to run around the Interweb making enemies, especially in a place I don't have any standing in. Excuse me for any offense, and I excuse ya'll for any offense. I just felt the thread wasn't very constructive, and would like to see less pessimism if possible as there seems to be an over abundance across the different forums. I have no more to say on the subject, Sorry for ruining your day OP.
Aldramelech I didn't intend on running you off or making you angry soooooo... Don't be please. Swords have been drawn and I would like all of us to walk away in one piece so. *bows* I take my leave.

[Grabnutz]

Hmm... so young and so full of wisdom already.

Have you ever considered that there may be a reason that us middle-aged guys, who have loyally supported GW since it started, and that have treble your gaming experience, are complaining?

We are not disagreeing with the developers and the new rules, hell we want to play the new rules. But we are tired of being ripped off and being expected to pay again for information we already have. It's like you going to buy the latest Harry Potter novel and being expected to pay for all the books you already have again.

So wise up. GW are not your friends. They don't play with you, we do, your fellow gamers.

[eldargal]

I've often wondered how much of the complaining about GW is grumpy old men stuff, to be honest. 'I remember when blister packs were tuppence ha'penny and you had to get the rules tattooed on yer arm 'cos paper was scarce, back when men were man unless they were Elves or Dwarfs. Then bloody Disraeli came along with his la di da ideas and the hobby hasn't been the same since.':p

Seriously though, GW should just release a LRB, but there is no point hating the BRB simply for being what it is.


Hmm... so young and so full of wisdom already.

Have you ever considered that there may be a reason that us middle-aged guys, who have loyally supported GW since it started, and that have treble your gaming experience, are complaining?

We are not disagreeing with the developers and the new rules, hell we want to play the new rules. But we are tired of being ripped off and being expected to pay again for information we already have. It's like you going to buy the latest Harry Potter novel and being expected to pay for all the books you already have again.

So wise up. GW are not your friends. They don't play with you, we do, your fellow gamers.

[Aldramelech]

I've often wondered how much of the complaining about GW is grumpy old men stuff, to be honest. 'I remember when blister packs were tuppence ha'penny and you had to get the rules tattooed on yer arm 'cos paper was scarce, back when men were man unless they were Elves or Dwarfs. Then bloody Disraeli came along with his la di da ideas and the hobby hasn't been the same since.':p

Seriously though, GW should just release a LRB, but there is no point hating the BRB simply for being what it is.

I don't hate the BRB, Id love to own one, and one day in two years time when someone gets fed up with theirs I'll buy it on Ebay for a sensible amount of money (just before the 1000 page £200 9th edition gets released).

But lets look at this in context of real world events.

Global recession is here. The financial institutions of the world are in the toilet. Many countries economy's are near collapse. Unemployment, redundancy and cut backs stalk the planet like a.. well.. a big stalky thing.
Little Timmy's parents worry about how they are going to afford Christmas presents.

Games Workshop, in a bid to revive its flagship system, release the most expensive set of wargames rules...ever!

How does this make any sense at all? What the hell are they thinking? Are they really that removed from reality?

Do you think I'm being to negative, too harsh? Look at it from my point of view. 6 months ago I was made redundant from a well paid job. I was extremely lucky to find another job within a month, although not nearly as well paid. Lots of people are not so fortunate.

From where I stand this strategy is incomprehensible.

[Grabnutz]

I've often wondered how much of the complaining about GW is grumpy old men stuff, to be honest. 'I remember when blister packs were tuppence ha'penny and you had to get the rules tattooed on yer arm 'cos paper was scarce, back when men were man unless they were Elves or Dwarfs. Then bloody Disraeli came along with his la di da ideas and the hobby hasn't been the same since.':p

Seriously though, GW should just release a LRB, but there is no point hating the BRB simply for being what it is.

Unsurprisingly I agree with Aldramech.

When it comes down to it we are both grognards, the Old Guard. We're only grumpy because we see GW trying to sell us 400 pages of something we have already paid for at least once if not several times over. I'd also love to have a copy of the 8th edition rules. Do GW actually think they can resurrect WFB by making it more expensive to play?

If the 528 pages were all rules then maybe we'd just stump up for it. There are other wargames systems whose rules and supplements come to similar page counts and expense, but those books contain information that is vital to playing the game.

So bring on the LRB. I hope that I can pick up a copy somewhere or I'm going to be like Aldramech and have to wait until someone else despairs of GW's rules and lets me have it for a song. I expect that I am not alone.

[eldargal]

I understand your arguments completely, I think GW should release a LRB even though I'm perfectly thrilled with the BRB. My previous post was tongue in cheek and really just an excuse to say 'tuppence ha'penny'.

[Toastix]

As someone who is not part of the old guard (only played 40k for over a year now and just now starting fantasy my background comes from other games) and someone who orders books for a living that make this price look like a penitence, even I think the price is a bit absurd. Since it is released by the company that owns the license to the product there is no reason the price could no be lower. The reason textbooks are so expensive is because of licensing fees and other added costs for text books (yes some is just driven up by the publisher) Take an art history book for instance, a 800 page full color book with almost 5 pieces of art per page costs a little over 150 dollars. The reason he price is so high is due to the publisher needing to pay for every single one of those images. I know I drew a comparison to the Pathfinder RPG is a previous post, it has less pictures mind you then the new fantasy book but it runs 50 USD and most of that cost is driven up by licensing as well. I feel the fantasy book is about 10 to 15 dollars more then it should be heck maybe even 20 I have only had a few glances at the book so far. I am probably going to buy this book mind you, just because I am not familiar with the fluff and I like looking at painted armies and painting tips even if I already know how to paint a miniature. Though you could very well be paying for development costs, but I do not see how development of a rule book is any more intensive the the development of a video game or a text book that is only driven up by license fees.

I think we are all in agreement that they should release a book of just rules. But, I think they want that book to help sales of the starter box. Ya for marketing strategies that make no sense, or are even self destructive.

[Gooball]

If you can't afford it then wait for the mini rule book or even the big one to appear on Ebay for cheaper

[Aldramelech]

I understand your arguments completely, I think GW should release a LRB even though I'm perfectly thrilled with the BRB. My previous post was tongue in cheek and really just an excuse to say 'tuppence ha'penny'.

Anytime you want to say 'tuppence ha'penny' you go right on ahead and say it:D

[Grabnutz]

If you can't afford it then wait for the mini rule book or even the big one to appear on Ebay for cheaper

Thanks Gooball I'll just stop playing competitively because the company that owns my hobby has decided to price me out of it?

[UltramarineFan]

... It's like you going to buy the latest Harry Potter novel and being expected to pay for all the books you already have again. ...


um, no, it's actually like you having all the Harry potter books but the previous ones not being on sale anymore and the publishers trying to get more people into it and so giving them all the books in one go with the latest one. Ye, it's more like that.

[Stukovkh]

Anytime you want to say 'tuppence ha'penny' you go right on ahead and say it:D

Lol what exactly does that mean anyway?
I just realised that most of you guys are welsh... is this defiance another plot against the English?!
... I'm just kidding dont kill me :D

[Jakain]

And I think you have missed the point my friend, read the thread more carefully. Everybody likes nice things, some however cannot afford them.

And thats life and how Games Workshop operates :)

The price of the book is around what you'd expect to pay for such a huge and high quality hardcover especially from the likes of GW.

[Faultie]

I can afford a $75 book. That's not the point. I just don't feel that I need to spend $75 for the amount of value I have placed on the book.

I will pick up 8th Edition when a smaller, cheaper books comes out. I'm not knocking anyone who's buying the standard book, or pay $125 for the special edition. It's just not for me.

[Herald of Nurgle]

Lol what exactly does that mean anyway?
I just realised that most of you guys are welsh... is this defiance another plot against the English?!
... I'm just kidding dont kill me :D
KILL THE AMERICAN FOOL!

(Should note that i'm just English.)

[Stukovkh]

kill the american fool!

(should note that i'm just english.)

lmfao! :D

[Jwolf]

I'm getting the big book, because my 6yo wants to learn the rules, and there is a lot more reading in the big book than the smaller book will have, so he'll get a chance to get all the fluff from several generations of army books in one giant tome.

I am tempted to get a second book and dismember it to create a more portable rulebook for my own use, until the minibooks come out. Obviously I'm not concerned about the price of the book, but that is probably because I think the rules themselves will add $500 worth of models just to get my Lizardmen and Warriors up to speed. And please don't make me think about the Orc and Goblin changes that the new combat resolution and composition rules will generate for me...

[daboarder]

Ye gads, that's over $70 Canadian. I was going to use 8th as an entry point into Fantasy, but that just isn't happening.

I"ll see you're stupid and raise you an extortion!

They want $124 AUS my good friend, $124! that is practicallly highway robbery. Sorry GW was going to buy into fantady but not anymore And seeing as I have everything I really want for my 40k armies I guess you wont be getting my cash for a long long time.

[eldargal]

I have two Australian friends who play and they are both ordering their copy from Maelstrom games, should cost you around sixty five Australian dollars or something like that. No question that GWs Canadian and Antipodean prices are ridiculous.


I"ll see you're stupid and raise you an extortion!

They want $124 AUS my good friend, $124! that is practicallly highway robbery. Sorry GW was going to buy into fantady but not anymore And seeing as I have everything I really want for my 40k armies I guess you wont be getting my cash for a long long time.

[razcalking]

I"ll see you're stupid and raise you an extortion!

They want $124 AUS my good friend, $124! that is practicallly highway robbery. Sorry GW was going to buy into fantady but not anymore And seeing as I have everything I really want for my 40k armies I guess you wont be getting my cash for a long long time.

Well, you still beat me, but it's worse in Canada than I thought - $90 plus 5% tax = $94.50.

[Lord Azaghul]

I’m pretty sure the brits are getting away with the cheapest. If gw held to the rate exchange I would only have to pay 65$ USD rather then 75$ USD.

However: After spending the night with book, and playing a few games, I must say I am surprised. The rule set is solid. My only complaint: the special weapons rule. Really kicked the crap out of my hammerers, pretty much worthless now, can’t choose between hw/sh or gw, have to take gw.
But that is still over shadowed by how much fun I had playing a few games. Terrain is far more interesting, True line of sight it awesome, my organ gun is getting so nerfed when dwarves get a new book. Dwarven cannon now does d6 wounds. The only think I’m not sure of is how the gyro now works, but we’ll see.

Down side: the game itself does seem ‘simplier’, but we’ll see how that plays out in the coming months.

So long story short, I'm paying the money to get my book on time.

[UltramarineFan]

I’m pretty sure the brits are getting away with the cheapest.

We are now but when the exchange rate was around 2$ to £1 then americans were getting a better deal It varies, GW never change their exchange rate so who gets a better deal depends on the real world market, jsut happens we get the better deal atm.

[Grabnutz]

Lol what exactly does that mean anyway?
I just realised that most of you guys are welsh... is this defiance another plot against the English?!
... I'm just kidding dont kill me :D

I'm Welsh and an Ork to boot, and I work in Nottingham during the week - so GW had better get their act together or they might find a 250lb Welsh Waagh! storming through their front door sometime soon...:D

[Aldramelech]

I'm Welsh and an Ork to boot, and I work in Nottingham during the week - so GW had better get their act together or they might find a 250lb Welsh Waagh! storming through their front door sometime soon...:D

Id pay good money to see that!

[Grabnutz]

I'll get it posted on Who-Tube when I do ;)

[Grabnutz]

I’m pretty sure the brits are getting away with the cheapest. If gw held to the rate exchange I would only have to pay 65$ USD rather then 75$ USD.

Milord, 'cheap' is a relative term, which is very much the point.

[Mauglum.]

Hi all.
Just to propose an alternative to GW WHFB rule book for £50-£55 pounds.

Armies of Arcana rule book £20.
(And you get acess to 23 FREE balanced armylists .You can use ALL your current WH minatures with AoA.)

So pay over £250 for ALL GW rules and 12(?) army books , or £20 for AoA and its 23 army lists.

Guess which one I would choose.

TTFN
Lanrak.

[Grabnutz]

Hi all.
Just to propose an alternative to GW WHFB rule book for £50-£55 pounds...

Or Forge of War, with W40K conversion supplements, cost = £0 :D

Or Warhammer 7th Edition, cost = well you've already got it haven't you?

[Mauglum.]

Hi Grabnutz.
WHFB 7th ed has not got much in the way of ballanced army lists has it?;)

I am aware of free rules down loads from 'freewargamesrules'.
'No Quater' is quite good for a free rule set, for use with fantasy minatures.

I have not heard about' Forge of War',(other than the WHFB comics.)
Could you post a link please?

TTFN

[Kelbor hal]

Manager: Looking forward to 8th?
Me: Nope, not buying it
Manager: Why not? (shocked)
Me: I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules, you lot are having a laugh
Manager: But its double the size of the last book and its all color
Me: And how much of that is actual rules?
Manager: Well, umm, but (blusters)
Me: I don't need a section telling me about painting, races, making terrain, history, or any of the junk you've padded it out with to make it double the size, and since when were books priced in the real world as to how thick they are?
Manager: Sooo thats 5 pots of paint and a black spray, anything else?
Me: No thats it thanks.


I had pretty much exactly the same conversation with a local blue shirt. I'm a gamer who likes the fluff and 'conversion' side of the hobby (heck, my choice of 40k army should give that away :)), but I don't see why I should pay £45 for a book containing a) Rules I have a pathological hatred towards, and b) sections that have no actual impact on the story. Thats not to say those bits aren't important-on the contrary, they are-but they aren't worth me blowing £45 on. So I'm going to be waiting till it drops down in price on Ebay or get it off some kid who has recently brought the 'Island of Blood' set (which is also a name I hate, but thats not important here) but has been distracted by the latest shiny thing out there.

~ Hal.

[Chunk]

Well,

I was reading Tv Tropes the other night and someone commented on how Warhammer players are the most whiniest group of fans of any game system, and I thought to myself "Hardly! I'm sure there was more whining when 4th Ed DnD came out, we're not that bad are we?" but this thread has changed my mind.

Your complaints may be legitimate and your arguments valid, but that doesn't give you the right to annoy people by whining about something you have absolutely no power to change. When I find myself complaining or worrying about something I ask myself: Can I change or affect my predicament in any way? If the answer is yes, then I do whatever it is I can, but if the answer is no I just ignore it; no complaining, no pissing other people off with incessant (and in many cases unreasonable) cries of "Herpaderp the rulebook is overpriced!"

The rulebook is priced the way it is, and no amount of you saying you won't buy it will change that.

That being said, for all of you saying how stupid GW is for pricing the rulebook the way it is, look at what the customer is getting (no, not -you- personally, the -customer-) which is this: A full-colour, fully pictured, fully diagrammed ruleset for the best edition of Fantasy I have ever played, and I started back in 3rd edition. On top of this they get all the background they would ever need for every race, advice on painting, basing and playing with the army of their choice, an easy reference system for mid-game use, a list of fantastic and diverse basic scenarios which help balance army lists (can't play gunline effectively if the terrain is dense or you've rolled the scenario in which you can't set up everything the way you want it) as well as a set of truly heroic legendary scenarios which has inspired me to create a Dwarven blimp from a coke bottle and string.

Some of you don't want most of that, and for you they've developed a handy little rulebook with only the rules in it (as a quick aside: don't you think GW -knows- about the re-selling of smaller rulebooks? Honestly!) which you can pick up with a massive amount of High Elves and Skaven (a fantastic way of getting your children into the hobby, for all you family men who say you can't convince the wife) or easily from eBay once it's released.

But don't have the audacity to say that the BRB is bad value, because with all that in it I think the price is -very- fair, especially considering the high production level.

I had to create a profile in order to write this, which should say a lot about how angry this thread made me.

Finally, I think the OP's scenario should've run like this:
Manager: Looking forward to 8th?
Me: Nope, not buying it
Manager: Why not? (shocked)
Me: I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules, you lot are having a laugh
Manager: But itls double the size of the last book and it;s all color
Me: And how much of that is actual rules?
Manager: Why would you want just the rules? If you wanted that get the starter set which is out in September. But still, just the rules is a bit boring!
Me: I don't need a section telling me about painting, races, making terrain, history, or any of the junk you've padded it out with to make it double the size, and since when were books priced in the real world as to how thick they are?
Manager: Junk? You're seriously going to insult our flagship game system inside one of our stores -to the manager of that store-? Man, no wonder you only want the rules. Is that all for today?
Me: No thats it thanks.
Manager: Good, please don't come back. You aren't worth the (relatively few I'm sure) sales you would generate from keeping you as a customer, buy from our website or from another store, I don't want to see you again.

Seriously, I'm surprised he didn't do this. If you came to my store and pulled that crap on me, you'd be banned I can tell you now. In future, just keep your inane whining to yourself.

[Kelbor hal]

^ Cool story Bro.

~ Hal.

[Aldramelech]

Well,

I was reading Tv Tropes the other night and someone commented on how Warhammer players are the most whiniest group of fans of any game system, and I thought to myself "Hardly! I'm sure there was more whining when 4th Ed DnD came out, we're not that bad are we?" but this thread has changed my mind.

Your complaints may be legitimate and your arguments valid, but that doesn't give you the right to annoy people by whining about something you have absolutely no power to change. When I find myself complaining or worrying about something I ask myself: Can I change or affect my predicament in any way? If the answer is yes, then I do whatever it is I can, but if the answer is no I just ignore it; no complaining, no pissing other people off with incessant (and in many cases unreasonable) cries of "Herpaderp the rulebook is overpriced!"

The rulebook is priced the way it is, and no amount of you saying you won't buy it will change that.

That being said, for all of you saying how stupid GW is for pricing the rulebook the way it is, look at what the customer is getting (no, not -you- personally, the -customer-) which is this: A full-colour, fully pictured, fully diagrammed ruleset for the best edition of Fantasy I have ever played, and I started back in 3rd edition. On top of this they get all the background they would ever need for every race, advice on painting, basing and playing with the army of their choice, an easy reference system for mid-game use, a list of fantastic and diverse basic scenarios which help balance army lists (can't play gunline effectively if the terrain is dense or you've rolled the scenario in which you can't set up everything the way you want it) as well as a set of truly heroic legendary scenarios which has inspired me to create a Dwarven blimp from a coke bottle and string.

Some of you don't want most of that, and for you they've developed a handy little rulebook with only the rules in it (as a quick aside: don't you think GW -knows- about the re-selling of smaller rulebooks? Honestly!) which you can pick up with a massive amount of High Elves and Skaven (a fantastic way of getting your children into the hobby, for all you family men who say you can't convince the wife) or easily from eBay once it's released.

But don't have the audacity to say that the BRB is bad value, because with all that in it I think the price is -very- fair, especially considering the high production level.

I had to create a profile in order to write this, which should say a lot about how angry this thread made me.

Finally, I think the OP's scenario should've run like this:
Manager: Looking forward to 8th?
Me: Nope, not buying it
Manager: Why not? (shocked)
Me: I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules, you lot are having a laugh
Manager: But itls double the size of the last book and it;s all color
Me: And how much of that is actual rules?
Manager: Why would you want just the rules? If you wanted that get the starter set which is out in September. But still, just the rules is a bit boring!
Me: I don't need a section telling me about painting, races, making terrain, history, or any of the junk you've padded it out with to make it double the size, and since when were books priced in the real world as to how thick they are?
Manager: Junk? You're seriously going to insult our flagship game system inside one of our stores -to the manager of that store-? Man, no wonder you only want the rules. Is that all for today?
Me: No thats it thanks.
Manager: Good, please don't come back. You aren't worth the (relatively few I'm sure) sales you would generate from keeping you as a customer, buy from our website or from another store, I don't want to see you again.

Seriously, I'm surprised he didn't do this. If you came to my store and pulled that crap on me, you'd be banned I can tell you now. In future, just keep your inane whining to yourself.


The thread title is fairly obvious and if you dont like this sort of thing then why did you read it?
I know the Manager of the shop very well, he's been there for years and Ive been his customer for many years. No offense was given or taken.

So this is your first post here? Hardly an auspicious start is it? How about you go away and dont come back:D

This is an internet discussion forum, this is what people do, we post opinions and idea's to provoke discussion. Sometimes positive themes, sometimes negative. If you feel like enjoying a lively discussion then this is the place, if your just interested in shouting abuse at people then just go away......

[Nikephoros]

I still contend you're a total weirdo for thinking that the rulebook is a poor value but the insanely overpriced spray primer is an acceptable purchase.

[Chunk]

This is an internet discussion forum, this is what people do, we post opinions and idea's to provoke discussion. Sometimes positive themes, sometimes negative. If you feel like enjoying a lively discussion then this is the place, if your just interested in shouting abuse at people then just go away......

I hate it when someone I'm arguing with rebuts with a good point! Ruins my entire strategy :D

I was wrong to abuse you out of hand, especially since you're a person who shares my hobby, but sometimes we all get a little...heated when people start abusing something that doesn't really (in my eyes) deserve the treatment.

I still disagree however that the rulebook is bad value for the average player, that is, the player that will want both the rules and the accompanying material that comes with it. The fact that you're comfortable with paying $21 for a can of spray paint once a month but not $90 for a book that you'll use for a good 5 years (longer if you're like me and enjoy looking back through the previous editions for scenario details and other tidbits) only serves to reinforce my point,

but I shouldn't have just abused you, and for that I heartily apologise.

[Old_Paladin]

I keep seeing this "value/worth" arguement over and over again; and I think it needs to be cleared up.

People like Alda and myself have never said that the actual book and it's 500+ pages isn't, in and of itself, worth $90; it's a huge book and in full colour of course it's going to cost that much and is priced accordignly.

Our problem with the cost is because the book doesn't need to be that big in the first place; it costs too much for us because it has been needlessly bloated to cost more money.
It's supposed to be a rulebook, but only 175 pages are rules. $90 for 175 pages isn't very good value. There's like 300 pages of filler, basically 2/3rds of the whole thing; and we don't want/need a hobby book (that's why painting guides, and art and fluff books are sold seperately; and are better done serperately).
If there was a hard-bound "gamer" version that was only 200 pages and cost ~$50-$60 we'd buy that, but that's not an option. Or wait an extra month and pay $110+ for a mini-book (thank goodness for ebay).


So please, if you're going to argue or debate the issue, don't use a strawman or misrepresent our point.

[Aldramelech]

I still contend you're a total weirdo for thinking that the rulebook is a poor value but the insanely overpriced spray primer is an acceptable purchase.

We dont pay anything like what you pay for spray in America my friend, not even close. Also I can get alot out of a can of Chaos black, it lasts me several months.


I hate it when someone I'm arguing with rebuts with a good point! Ruins my entire strategy :D

I was wrong to abuse you out of hand, especially since you're a person who shares my hobby, but sometimes we all get a little...heated when people start abusing something that doesn't really (in my eyes) deserve the treatment.

I still disagree however that the rulebook is bad value for the average player, that is, the player that will want both the rules and the accompanying material that comes with it. The fact that you're comfortable with paying $21 for a can of spray paint once a month but not $90 for a book that you'll use for a good 5 years (longer if you're like me and enjoy looking back through the previous editions for scenario details and other tidbits) only serves to reinforce my point,

but I shouldn't have just abused you, and for that I heartily apologise.

Accepted. As graceful an apology Ive ever seen on the net. Welcome by the way.:)


I keep seeing this "value/worth" arguement over and over again; and I think it needs to be cleared up.

People like Alda and myself have never said that the actual book and it's 500+ pages isn't, in and of itself, worth $90; it's a huge book and in full colour of course it's going to cost that much and is priced accordignly.

Our problem with the cost is because the book doesn't need to be that big in the first place; it costs too much for us because it has been needlessly bloated to cost more money.
It's supposed to be a rulebook, but only 175 pages are rules. $90 for 175 pages isn't very good value. There's like 300 pages of filler, basically 2/3rds of the whole thing; and we don't want/need a hobby book (that's why painting guides, and art and fluff books are sold seperately; and are better done serperately).
If there was a hard-bound "gamer" version that was only 200 pages and cost ~$50-$60 we'd buy that, but that's not an option. Or wait an extra month and pay $110+ for a mini-book (thank goodness for ebay).


So please, if you're going to argue or debate the issue, don't use a strawman or misrepresent our point.

Agreed. Well put.

[Grabnutz]

Seriously, I'm surprised he didn't do this. If you came to my store and pulled that crap on me, you'd be banned I can tell you now. In future, just keep your inane whining to yourself.

An interesting and very detailed take from a man who's been playing since 3rd edition. So tell me dear Veteran Chunk, given that you've almost certainly:
1. bought each set of rules since 3rd,
2. bought every codex for every army you own, and read most of the others,
3. read every copy of White Dwarf with all its tactical and hobby articles, and
4. probably read quite a few of the novels and other fluff products that support Warhammer,
exactly how much of the 500+ pages is going to be of any actual value to you whatsoever?

I agree that for a complete newbie such a tome could be a true revelation, but to anyone else they are selling you what they've already sold you before, perhaps many times.

It may come in a full colour and graphically pleasing package but a large proportion of it is a case of creative recycling.

This is why us other veterans are questioning the ethical marketing strategy of GW with this edition. Would you buy the latest DVD in a film series you liked if you could only buy it with every previous edition bundled with it at five times it's actual value?

Yes there are 175 pages of rules, no doubt padded out with the quotes, stories and graphics GW loves to pepper its work with. If you boiled it down to useful text we are talking 100 pages max, of which less than half are truly new, if we are lucky. So for 50 pages of new rules you are prepared to pay as much as a Battalion box.

Inane yes, but I don't think you can really categorize it as whining.

[Melissia]

The Big Rule book is designed for a small subset of people - early adopters, fluff junkies, people who game every week and new players.

If you are not one of those types of people, you can wait 2 months and buy the mini rule book for cheap on eBay.
Personally I think that's most players that care about the rules anyway right there. Painters don't care about the rules to begin with, because they just want new models to paint (half the dedicated no-gaming painters I know don't even have legal armies for example).

[Aldramelech]

Personally I think that's most players that care about the rules anyway right there. Painters don't care about the rules to begin with.

Ohhhh no you don't! The War Of the Brush is elsewhere.........

Go Back to the 40K forum, The Power of Aldramelech compels you!!!!!!!!!!!

[Melissia]

No.

[Hyperion]

My Gods!
I just popped onto the main website this morning (since it's pre-order day).

I was looking forward to this, really looking forward to it.
But its $90 here in Canada. Ninety-freakin- dollars, plus tax (at 15% that puts it over a hundred). I'm not putting down that kind of money right now, even though this edition looks really fun.

I'll just wait for the Island of Blood release, and hope for a minibook (I mean, only 175 pages are actual rules, the other 300+ are all fluff sections). When I want to spend that kind of money for fluff, I'll go to Black Library, thank you very much.

Soooo... slightly off topic but I wonder what the cost of living is like over there... I only ask as I was offered a paramedic job which equated to $2 per hour which seems low compared to the £17 ($27) I'm on currently. The fact you're paying £60 for this book makes me slightly suspicious...

[Old_Paladin]

Soooo... slightly off topic but I wonder what the cost of living is like over there... I only ask as I was offered a paramedic job which equated to $2 per hour which seems low compared to the £17 ($27) I'm on currently. The fact you're paying £60 for this book makes me slightly suspicious...

Minimum wage in Ontario is over $10 per hour, and I make more then that. A single day of work would pay for the book.

As for value of the dollar.
The Canafian dollar is .97 to the American: we're 3% weaker, but are forced to pay nearly a 20% mark-up (and we have generally higher taxes). If the book was $75 here, like it is across the boarder, I'd be a little less cranky.

[scadugenga]

Ohhhh no you don't! The War Of the Brush is elsewhere.........

Go Back to the 40K forum, The Power of Aldramelech compels you!!!!!!!!!!!

That...

was damned funny.

Thanks!

[Melissia]

Even if it does show he has no actual power :P

[scadugenga]

Even if it does show he has no actual power :P

Yeah, but could you imagine what his communion wafers would look like, or his exorcism kit?

;)

[Hyperion]

Minimum wage in Ontario is over $10 per hour, and I make more then that. A single day of work would pay for the book.

As for value of the dollar.
The Canafian dollar is .97 to the American: we're 3% weaker, but are forced to pay nearly a 20% mark-up (and we have generally higher taxes). If the book was $75 here, like it is across the boarder, I'd be a little less cranky.

I believe that smuggling across the Canadian / US border is a time honoured tradition... and you may have found a product that has escaped the attention of most of the cartels ;)

[Orminah]

I HAVE A SOLUTION! Save the trees, be an E-pirate.

Not that I would condone such behavior of course! But, options are options.