Why do Ard Boyz tournes in the physical world at all?

[blackjack]

The game of 40k is broken down into 3 parts.

1. The rules. (including the codexes, stats, etc)
2. The Fluff
3. The Minatures

Of these 3 parts everyone can agree that the first often sucks. The rules are not blanced, the codex's are not close to equal, and a few power builds dominate the so called "competitive" environment. In addition the game itself is not exactly rocket science to execute. It's mostly a matter of target priority and luck. On the other hand most 40k players are attacted to the fluff and the models ,

40k is a lousy system for "competition" and the competitive players know this, they are the ones that complain the loudest about it. Yet it is the competitive players who spend vast sums on minatures they don't bother to paint, then spend vast sums again on the next great list. This is the cycle that keeps GW in the black. Thus Ard Boyz.

If you are going to do Ard boyz style events, with no painting, no reguard for the fluff and no attempt at balance why not just hold the event on Vassal? Save yourselfs thousands of dollars on minatures, have more games, be able to keep up with the lattest internet builds and be able to match up against other competitive 40k players from around the world?

[Lord Azaghul]

So did you lose? ;)






**
On topic
I think 'Ard Boyz is GW hypocrisy at its finest. Nuf said.

Aslo, 40k is not broken.
And I'm an IG player!

Any why not vassel?
Cause then the players couldn't cheat, or argu for rules manipulation.

[Splug]

Half the fun of the game is just having an excuse to get out for the day and talk to people. No matter what else is wrong with the game/event, you'll lose that trying to virtualize it.

Secondly, 'Ard Boyz is run by stores are kept open largely by the sale of plastic miniatures. I do believe the reason for 'Ard Boyz at all is somewhat bound to the requirement of said miniatures.

[blackjack]

I do believe the reason for 'Ard Boyz at all is somewhat bound to the requirement of said miniatures. "

I agree, but I think the concept of Ard Boyz undermines the need for minis at all in the digital age.

"So did you lose? "

Did not play, would not play unless the entrance fee was free and I did not have to pay n hundreds of dollars for minis I would have no time to paint and would be obsolite in 6 months when the next greatest codex arrives.

I am not against Ard Boyz, I just don't undestand the need for the investment if you are not into the minis themselfs.

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Did not play, would not play unless the entrance fee was free and I did not have to pay n hundreds of dollars for minis I would have no time to paint and would be obsolite in 6 months when the next greatest codex arrives.

Well, unless you were getting ripped off, the entrance fee should have been free, that's what the rules on the GW website say, and that's how it was at all the stores that I know were doing it. As for the cost of the minis, well, you could always borrow guys from a friend, but I suspect that you already own several hundred dollars worth of minis, lest you wouldn't be posting on this forum, am I right?

[Sir Biscuit]

First off, vassal is a terrible system to play on. LoS is a huge pain in the ***, and debates about stuff happen all the time. It's not the way I would ever choose to play 40k, and honestly, is a bit like saying that racing should all be done digitally... sure, we have clear-cut rules, and we know the exact stats for all the cars, but it's not the same, no matter how perfect the simulation.

Second, the rules are actually quite good in 40k. The system is actually pretty well balanced. The fact that you think that the game is only target priority and luck just proves that you don't really play 40k, or at least you don't on any kind of competitive level.

There is NOTHING wrong with hard boys. It's a tournament that people enjoy. A lot of people look forward to it all year, because it the funnest 40k they will do that year. If you don't like it, don't compete, but there's no reason to complain about it and try to bring others down just because you have some bizzaro personal grudge against competitive play.

[Shavnir]

Second, the rules are actually quite good in 40k. The system is actually pretty well balanced. The fact that you think that the game is only target priority and luck just proves that you don't really play 40k, or at least you don't on any kind of competitive level.

You haven't played that many other games have you? :p

[Lord Azaghul]

You haven't played that many other games have you? :p

If you're disagreeing with Sir Biscuit, I'm at at bit of a loss.

5th ed is great, by and large the game IS balanced, and most of the rules, with the exception of a small handful of items in 2 newer codex', work very smoothly.

[Sir Biscuit]

You haven't played that many other games have you? :p

Plenty. I'm not going to go into why you can't ever truly balance a game, as I don't feel like typing that much right now, but it will suffice to say you can't. It is true that certain builds do better at certain times, but that is true in every game, and in 40k it only exists until someone finds a way to counter it. Even the most exploitative and rule-bending builds (I'm thinking Nob Bikerz here) only exists until people figure out how to deal with it. You'll notice that there are ZERO codex units in 40k that are banned from tournament play... unlike many other systems, even the most powerful units and combinations are hardly insurmountable. In addition, no single build or codex truly dominates the tournament scene... and no codex or list is effective AT ALL unless backed by good generalship.

40k is a combination of many factors, and excelling at all of them is required if you want to win. List construction, terrain placement, deployment, maneuvering, threat management and manipulation, as well as, yes, target priority and luck have a part to play. Saying that the last two in conjunction with army choice are the only things that matter, however, is extremely misguided.

[DarkLink]

The game of 40k is broken down into 3 parts.

1. The rules. (including the codexes, stats, etc)
2. The Fluff
3. The Minatures

Of these 3 parts everyone can agree that the first often sucks. The rules are not blanced, the codex's are not close to equal, and a few power builds dominate the so called "competitive" environment. In addition the game itself is not exactly rocket science to execute. It's mostly a matter of target priority and luck. On the other hand most 40k players are attacted to the fluff and the models ,

No, the rules are pretty well balanced, with a very few notable outliers (Necrons, Daemonhunters, Leafblowers).

And while luck and target priority play a big role, if you think there's no strategy or tactics involved then you have a lot of room for improvement in terms of player skill. Or you need to try out a different army. Some armies are very point-and-click. Others, not so much. They require subtle thought, tactics and strategy to win.



40k is a lousy system for "competition" and the competitive players know this, they are the ones that complain the loudest about it. Yet it is the competitive players who spend vast sums on minatures they don't bother to paint, then spend vast sums again on the next great list. This is the cycle that keeps GW in the black. Thus Ard Boyz.

Seems to work ok to me. I have a lot of fun competing at local tournaments, and in regular games.

And I've yet to meet any of these competitive players who don't paint anything, and just jump from one army to the next as the newest best list comes out.

Plus, if that does happen regularly, and it's the only thing making GW profits, then why in the name of God would they stop doing it? And why would you want them to stop? If they stopped, and your assumption is correct, GW goes out of business and all that painting and fluff and everything completely stops getting supported.



If you are going to do Ard boyz style events, with no painting, no reguard for the fluff and no attempt at balance why not just hold the event on Vassal? Save yourselfs thousands of dollars on minatures, have more games, be able to keep up with the lattest internet builds and be able to match up against other competitive 40k players from around the world?

First off, Vassal isn't a GW product. In fact, GW shut down the people producing Vassal, iirc. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that that's a no-go.

Secondly, if you think people compete in 'ard Boyz for the prizes, you're completely mistaken. Some people might do it only for that reason. But I went to 'ard Boyz to throw down with actual people, not an internet chat box and a bunch of pixels.

And if your concerned with painting and fluff, you're not looking at 'ard Boyz from the right perspective. It's not that there's no painting and such. It's just that you are allowed to ignore it if you want, and bring the most competitive list you can.

I think you're missing the whole point of this "competition" stuff. I like to compete. A lot of people like to compete. This is different from trying to win prizes. It's different from sitting at a computer and playing a bad video game.

We compete at 'ard Boyz because it's fun. And it's fun in a different way from normal games, or from tournaments full of &@#$%#@ comp scores.


You haven't played that many other games have you? :p

Have you:p?

[BuFFo]

OMG.... if I say "I agree with Darklink" one more time in the forums, I think I am just going to have to find him in real life, and 'human centipede' myself to his dirty anal cavity.

- edit -

Wait a second, the three letter word for butt is censored, yet it is okay to say 'dirty anal cavity'? What screwed up religious value system is in place here?

[Mizzrym]

OMG.... if I say "I agree with Darklink" one more time in the forums, I think I am just going to have to find him in real life, and 'human centipede' myself to his dirty anal cavity.

- edit -

Wait a second, the three letter word for butt is censored, yet it is okay to say 'dirty anal cavity'? What screwed up religious value system is in place here?

WOW I lold really hard at this

[Denzark]

particularly as one can type arse, the true Queen's English spelling of a word that refers to the cack-pipe and is much less rude than ****ebox...

[Lord Azaghul]

OMG.... if I say "I agree with Darklink" one more time in the forums, I think I am just going to have to find him in real life, and 'human centipede' myself to his dirty anal cavity.

- edit -

Wait a second, the three letter word for butt is censored, yet it is okay to say 'dirty anal cavity'? What screwed up religious value system is in place here?

LMAO here!!

I'm sure the filter not snagging you has something to do with that wonderful phrase you've just created that so very many of us never, ever heard, rathen they any sort of 'religious value system'

[Lerra]

A lot of people play 40k the same way that they would play chess. It's a game of skill and mental sharpness.

There is a reason why the largest chess tournaments are in-person and not just online, though.

[BuFFo]

A lot of people play 40k the same way that they would play chess. It's a game of skill and mental sharpness.

There is a reason why the largest chess tournaments are in-person and not just online, though.

I agree, whole heartedly.