Spearhead disappointment

[DoctorEvil]

So, I picked up the latest White Dwarf yesterday will the so-called "Spearhead Expansion" in it.

I was looking forward to it, as I'm a big fan of tanks. Now, this is the 1st WD I've purchased since they raised the US price to $9.00 an issue (and I haven't really missed it since I stopped). So in the back on my head I'm thinking "If they're going to start putting valuable content into WD, I might have to start buying it again".

Whew!!!! Apparently I don't have to worry about that :) Oh, I like the Spearhead rules.....but I was a VERY disappointed to find out I really didn't have a complete expansion, I was VERY disappointed to find out I needed to download the 12 actual Spearhead and rules for them. Don't get me wrong, downloading stuff is not a big deal (unless you don't have a computer), but when you're telling me I'm going to get a 40K expansion in an issue of WD, give me the whole damn expansion, not half of it.

Perfect opportunity to win back a WD customer......and they didn't deliver.

<end of rant>

[lobster-overlord]

Ditto.

I was hoping it would be an actual small rule book, much like the campaign suppliments or the skirmish rules they put out years back. (Akin to the books found in the Skull Pass and Black Reach sets, normal size, but very thin with the content, bound with staples, not the rule book size)

I didn't even bother picking it up once I flipped through it.

John M.

[eldargal]

Well, I found it to be the best WD in a long time, and it makes me very hopeful that WD will start to improve and deliver new content. I'm not saying you are wrong or criticising, just saying I thiink this is a big step forward for WD.

[Lord Azaghul]

I phsycally picked it up, flipped through it and put it back on the shelf. I'll wait until its up on the GW site, or/and when my local store clearances the WD out for .50$ a pop.

[Brass Scorpion]

My copy of the June WD hasn't arrived yet, but I had a look at the store copy yesterday. After last month's issue where only a page or two was of any direct interest to 40K hobbyists I found the June issue to be the exact opposite. Between the Spearhead related articles, Apocalypse datasheets and the Nightspinner rules the June issue has plenty of good material for 40K enthusiasts. Having a lot of armored vehicles in multiple 40K armies I really appreciate what GW is doing with Spearhead and Apocalypse.

[DarkLink]

WD finally puts out something; an expansion so big they can't fit the whole thing in one issue, and you complain about it?:rolleyes:

[Gotthammer]

The problem is that the rest of it won't be in the next issue - it'll be on the website along with the stuff that is in the magazine. So there's no point getting WD for Spearhead as you'll need to download the formation rules anyway.

[DoctorEvil]

WD finally puts out something; an expansion so big they can't fit the whole thing in one issue, and you complain about it?:rolleyes:


...yet sadly, not important enough to cut out a couple page of ads and a Blood Angels article so they could fit the whole thing in the actual magazine :)

[SotonShades]

I was dissapointed with the Spearhead expansion in WD as well. I can fully understand that as it is, it took up a lot of column inches this issue, so putting more in would have possibly been a bit upsetting for Fantasy and LotR players (though of course Fantasy folks should be more than thrilled with next month's issue...)

I think I would have like to have seen a bit less verbiage about it and a page of the Spearhead rules (such as the one about being able to move and fire that was mentioned in the battle report) and maybe a small sample of the spearheads, rather than just one. Even if they had just showed those that featured in the battle report so we could get a better idea of the flavour of what's to come...

Speaking of which, I am not sure I like the new style of the battle report. Andy Kenrick has certainly tried to put his own style onto the mag straight away, but the combination of narrative as if the models were alive and game speak about the specific rolls of dice was really off putting for me. Personnally, I would prefer the players' point of view description of what happenned, as was the case under Fat Bloke, with a bit of narrative before and possibly at the end from the characters. However, I know a few people who prefer a narrative approach, with maps and side-notes explaining it in game terms. I think what has happenned is an attempt to find the best of both, but leaving a soggy middle bit that doesn't read as smoothely as it could.

I did find the rhetoric through out this issue to be a bit more 'airy-fairy' to use a colloquialism. Again, not my cup of tea and I assume Kenrick trying to mark this out as his territory. Did anyone else find this, or was it just me?

[Atrotos]

I'd like to convince people to buy it anyway. GW is giving us real rules in a White Dwarf. If we show them that they're taking a step in the right direction they'll try again, perhaps with better results.

The inclusion of the night spinner rules is HUGE. We could be seeing the beginning of an era where an army gets updated every month with new units preserving the players interest in his or her army and alleviating the bitterness that comes from being out the GW limelight for too long. If they're smart they'll introduce alternate army lists, the equivalent of new codicies but with far less risk for them.

[murrburger]

I hope this becomes a trend, and not just a one-shot thing. I don't expect a ton of new stuff every month, but a few things would be cool.

I'll go out and buy this issue, just for the nostalgia factor.

[DrLove42]

I'd like to convince people to buy it anyway. GW is giving us real rules in a White Dwarf. If we show them that they're taking a step in the right direction they'll try again, perhaps with better results.

The inclusion of the night spinner rules is HUGE. We could be seeing the beginning of an era where an army gets updated every month with new units preserving the players interest in his or her army and alleviating the bitterness that comes from being out the GW limelight for too long. If they're smart they'll introduce alternate army lists, the equivalent of new codicies but with far less risk for them.

It sunlikely that its going to become a massive thing. Models released outside its codex window is very rare, bar the 2nd wave release (and the guard stuff but thats just cos GW are properly giving the love to guard right now).

Think about it. How long ago did we hear the rumours of the new Eldar Tanks and stuff? It was in WD 2 months ago, and the rumours hit BoLs before that, along with the rumours of a plastic eldar superheavy (i can still dream on that one...). Seeing as other than 2nd wave demons and the Dark eldar and Grey knights fighting for position i doubt we'll see this very much, if ever again.

I see it more of GW's way of saying to Eldar players "We know you're hurting, we know your codex is slowly being crushed by everyone else doing everything better but we've got more important things first. We'll get to the Eldar codex in 2013, so hears a single liferaft for you to hold onto so you can see we haven't forgot about you"

[BuFFo]

WD finally puts out something; an expansion so big they can't fit the whole thing in one issue, and you complain about it?:rolleyes:

The Speahead Article could have been in one issue easily.

People SERIOUSLY still buy the monthly catalogue? lol!

[gwensdad]

I love the rules (or at least, like them enough I really want to play with them)
BUT I hate that I have to wait and wait for them to put up the spearhead formations. When will they be up? And I can't get a reply from the voxcaster account on twitter (I think they changed people, it feels different)

[gwensdad]

...and just as I was looking here to see if anyone had an answer, I got a reply FROM GW/@Voxcaster

@gwensdad Even monotasked servitors need downtime and maintenance. The techpriests' rituals should be complete early next week.

So, I'm guessing their web person and/or twitter person is on vacation, so we can expect things next week.

[DarkLink]

The Speahead Article could have been in one issue easily.


But then they couldn't have fit all those nice painting articles in... or... something... yeah...:rolleyes:

[CitizenZero]

HAHA! I am not even going to comment on the fact that you are getting a large chunk of an EXPANSION in the White Dwarf, for only $9.00...

I just love how you took time out of your life to go online and complain about it. The internets are amazing.

[DoctorEvil]

HAHA! I am not even going to comment on the fact that you are getting a large chunk of an EXPANSION in the White Dwarf, for only $9.00...

I just love how you took time out of your life to go online and complain about it. The internets are amazing.

The funny thing is I would have paid $20 to have the whole damn thing in one book :D Heck, I thought Iwas paying $9.00 for "an exclusive new Expansion (with a capital E) for fighting tank battles.

But half of an expansion.....not very valuable to me regardless of the price.

[gwensdad]

I hate having the rules but having to wait until next week for the spearhead formations to be posted. :(

WANT...TO...PLAY...NOW!

[DoctorEvil]

I hate having the rules but having to wait until next week for the spearhead formations to be posted. :(

WANT...TO...PLAY...NOW!

NEXT WEEK????? NEXT WEEK!!!!!! Where did you get that info? I figured they'd at least make an effort to get it out the week the stupid magazine came out.

Geez oh Pete!

[gwensdad]

NEXT WEEK????? NEXT WEEK!!!!!! Where did you get that info? I figured they'd at least make an effort to get it out the week the stupid magazine came out.

Geez oh Pete!

I believe there is a quote somewhere about June 1st being the target. I'll have to look for where I saw that. Give me 10 minutes.

[gwensdad]

OK, here it is:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=10500090a

Target date for WD release was May 29th, Formations online June 1st.

edit: took me 4 minutes. WHO THE MAN?!

[CitizenZero]

The funny thing is I would have paid $20 to have the whole damn thing in one book :D Heck, I thought Iwas paying $9.00 for "an exclusive new Expansion (with a capital E) for fighting tank battles.

But half of an expansion.....not very valuable to me regardless of the price.Go return it, and get your $9.00 back.

[DoctorEvil]

Go return it, and get your $9.00 back.

If I give them $9.00 MORE will they give me the other half of the expansion? :)

[A HUGE BLUNT]

that magazine has been full of aids and fail for a while now, time to put old yeller out of his misery

[eldargal]

This is possibly the stupidiest sentiment I have seen regarding WD. I'm not criticising you personally, AHB, just the attitude which is very common. WD has taken a big step forward including new rules and an expansion. It may not have been implemented that well (though you will never please everyone inthis hobby) but the potential for WD being an excellent hobby magazine is there. This is a big step towards that and should be supported, not whined about.
The bottom line is, if you want WD to be better, you need to show GW that you support this current initiatve. That is why my six brothers and I have all bought copies of this issue despite us usually sharing a subscription.


that magazine has been full of aids and fail for a while now, time to put old yeller out of his misery

[RogueGarou]

Well, I would not say it is the beginning of an era because it has rules in the White Dwarf. Once upon a time, White Dwarf had rules supplements and articles that were of interest to 40k players. It also had stuff for Fantasy players and stuff for what became the Specialist Games. Then one third or more of the magazine became devoted to Lord of the Rings. I enjoy the movies very much but have no interest in playing a game based on them and have personally never even seen a game played, even back when there was a GW shop around where I lived back then.

The content alone made me stop buying the magazine many years ago. The price would not matter. If the magazine were what it used to be, I would subscribe or purchase it off the local shelf each month and not be so concerned with the price. With the current design of the mag, any price is not worth it to me. I will admit that I was very tempted to subscribe this past fall so I could get a White Dwarf in Space model to add to my Mechanicus models but the mini was reported sold out in very short order and I could not bring myself to pay that much for one mini and get 12 issues with a purpose to line a catbox only.

Too bad, really. I miss getting cardboard terrain, datafaxes, new unit and character rules and good articles in White Dwarf. If it never changes, I will continue to use the internet for inspiration and good articles. If it ever does become a regularly good book, I might consider buying it regularly. Some people will not like it but I think the first step would be to drop the LotR mandatory coverage and split that between other games each month. I do not see it happening but I can dream. Until then, I keep my old WD's on the shelf behind me and flip through when I want to see cool stuff.

[Irdion]

A short sentiment:

One issue does not make a trend. Privateer Press seems quite capable of producing their magazine chock full of delicious goodies in regular intervals, and for a cheaper price. White Dwarf used to be a terrific magazine, but those days have passed with Games Workshop becoming a publicly owned company.

[eldargal]

Enitirely irrelevent, if this issue is a success it should encourage them to do more in a similar vein. GW knows WD is failing, subscription levels have been dropping steadily for years. They don't want it to fail. The fact is this is the first unit rules published in a WD in years, it is a big change and it should be encouraged. Add in the spearhead supplement and you have the best issue of WD in a long, long time (which I admit is not saying much). This is a huge positive and should be supported so perhaps one day we have a WD that is worht subscribing too.


A short sentiment:

One issue does not make a trend. Privateer Press seems quite capable of producing their magazine chock full of delicious goodies in regular intervals, and for a cheaper price. White Dwarf used to be a terrific magazine, but those days have passed with Games Workshop becoming a publicly owned company.

[CitizenZero]

If I give them $9.00 MORE will they give me the other half of the expansion? :)If you give me $9.00, I'll e-mail it to you. ;)

[DrLove42]

Everyone whos complained go read the actual spearheads now they're out. That should change you mind. This game mode is already sounding more fun than planetstrike was...

[whitestar333]

I agree: we need to support this WD to send the message to GW: "MORE PLEASE!"

Let's also not ignore the utility of them releasing these expansions through WD instead of devoting their publishing capacity towards it. I would have rather seen Cities of Death, Planetstrike, or Battle Missions appear in WD magazines so that they could devote more efforts to updating armies. I mean, even releasing a new mission every WD would get me interested in a subscription.

[JonnyRoxtar]

Remember when White dwarf used to give you free models and campaign rule books? Not even a poster these days.

[DrLove42]

Fact of the matter is be thankful its released in WD. If there was new scenery or a few other new models to go with it, it'd have been a £15 book instead of a few quid and a download.

Cities of death? All the city terrain
Planet strike? All the landing pads and bastions
Planetery Empires? Well this came with itself...
Battle Missions? Ok well my theory falls down there, but it stands. If theres a big release which all armies can benefit from (not just eldar and guard) they'd sell it as a full book.

[DoctorEvil]

Everyone whos complained go read the actual spearheads now they're out. That should change you mind. This game mode is already sounding more fun than planetstrike was...

I'm very happy to see the Spearhead formations out today, and after reading them, I will agree that they look amazing and are going to be TONS of fun to play. The Seek & Destroy Spearhead is my favorite.

But it doesn't change the fact that I think the execution of this great product was flawed. 8 pages that I had to download and print that could have (and should have) been included in the magazine. I understand the constraints that the editors of WD have. They have to support LotR in each and every issue even if alot of people don't like that fact. They have to advertise the product, and promote the stores and events. They have alot of auto includes each month that they have to do. I understand that, I appreciate that and accept that.

But at the end of the day, the editorial staff did have to make a decision....they had 8 pages more of Spearhead left to complete the expansion and make is self contained in the issue. Instead of putting it in the issue, they put it online and included a 6 page Blood Angels article and a 19 page battle report. Could they have dropped the BA article and edited the BR down to 17 pages and included the 8 pages of Spearhead? Probably but they choose not to. I think that was a bad decision.

White Dwarf has gotten a bad rap over the last few years. While Spearhead as it currently is, was a step in the right direction, having those 8 pages in the actual magazine would have been a quantum leap in the right direction. In short, I think they had a great opportunity to win back some old WD fans, and while it appears they have been partially successful on that front, I think that better execution would have won back alot more.

[A HUGE BLUNT]

This is possibly the stupidiest sentiment I have seen regarding WD. I'm not criticising you personally, AHB, just the attitude which is very common. WD has taken a big step forward including new rules and an expansion. It may not have been implemented that well (though you will never please everyone inthis hobby) but the potential for WD being an excellent hobby magazine is there. This is a big step towards that and should be supported, not whined about.
The bottom line is, if you want WD to be better, you need to show GW that you support this current initiatve. That is why my six brothers and I have all bought copies of this issue despite us usually sharing a subscription.

The older WD provided 10 times more content at a fraction of the current price. 9 dollars is a lot to ask for a monthly magazine. The potential has always been there, but wheather its from the staff's inability or unwillingness to reach that potential, the bottem line is the potential for a maginize to be good doesn't justify its cost. It's not personal, I don't want WD to die, but the consumer in me refuses to pay what they're asking. You and your brothers are welcome to do whatever you like with your money but they won't be getting mine.

[DarkLink]

The older WD provided 10 times more content at a fraction of the current price. 9 dollars is a lot to ask for a monthly magazine. The potential has always been there, but wheather its from the staff's inability or unwillingness to reach that potential, the bottem line is the potential for a maginize to be good doesn't justify its cost. It's not personal, I don't want WD to die, but the consumer in me refuses to pay what they're asking. You and your brothers are welcome to do whatever you like with your money but they won't be getting mine.

So they used to be better. Then they got worse for a while. Now they're getting better again. Eldargal's point stands.

On a side note, don't blame GW that printing stuff costs more now. Well, at least don't blame them exclusively. Stuff gets more expensive over time. Just because WD was cheap 10 years ago, doesn't mean it can be that same price now.

[SotonShades]

The cost of WD isn't that much compared to other serious content magazines, at least not here in the UK. Many other magazines are around £7-£9, roughly double the cost of WD. Now yes, girly "real life" magazines may come out twice as often for a fraction of the cost, but they usually have many more staff, not to mention being filled with contentless drivle.

Other Monthlies with a similar level of inteligable content, not to mention high quality photos and graphics vary rarely cost as little as WD, and given the small number of people who actually work on producing it, whilst still maintaining other positions within the design studio, it amazing they are able to produce as much content as they do. We also have to remember that when we got posters, mini-rule books, campaign books etc, WD was a humble 50-70 pages long, where as the latest issue tops out at 120 pages.

A final point to make is the quality of rules sets GW makes now. Back then the rules sets were far looser, and not as balanced or competitive as the modern sets. It takes far longer to play test the rules and balance them as well as the games development staff do. We may gripe and groan about phenomena such as Codex creep (and im not going to argue whether that exhists or not now), but when all is said and done, it is amazing how well balanced Warhammer, Warhammer4000 and Lord of the Rings is given how complicated they are and the random nature of our favourite wargames. From my understanding talking to the staff at previous Games Days, something like Spearhead will have been in the works for around 6 months, and the Night Spinner rules will have taken a good couple of months and the model possibly even longer, even though they are just basic adaptaions from previous incarnations. All this whilst trying to keep the hobby fresh by adding other new models to all of the ranges GW produce and giving continuing codex support to each and every army.

I would dearly like to have new rules and new units as a regular feature of WD, but looking at it from a logistical point of view for the studio, I doubt we will be seeing any huge amounts like we have this month. At least not for a while unless they take the decision to expand the studio.

[scadugenga]

This is possibly the stupidiest sentiment I have seen regarding WD. I'm not criticising you personally, AHB, just the attitude which is very common. WD has taken a big step forward including new rules and an expansion.

Sorry lass, but you are incorrect. WD hasn't taken a huge step forward. They're trying to get back to the starting line from the marathon they ran backwards over the last 5+ years.

Back in 2nd Ed, they really made WD a game oriented mag. They introduced new minigames (jetbike racing anyone?) provided rules and entire sections for games like Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, etc. and actually had meaningful articles that were helpful for gamers of all levels and experience. That even carried a bit into 3rd ed.

But for $9.00 a pop, even it if was as good as it was back in the day, I still wouldn't buy it. When I can buy a novel (or two, with the way Borders sends out discount coupons) for the price of one half-arsed rag, they can forget about it.

The last few years of WD had content that had about as much meaning as the National Enquirer.

On a good day.

Now, all that aside--goodonthem for trying to make some positive progress. If they can reduce the price back to $6.00 I'd probably buy it now and again.

[scadugenga]

On a side note, don't blame GW that printing stuff costs more now. Well, at least don't blame them exclusively. Stuff gets more expensive over time. Just because WD was cheap 10 years ago, doesn't mean it can be that same price now.

Um...It's easy to blame them. The price raised 50% in less than a year.

I"m sorry, printing doesn't cost that much. I know, I have a friend in the business. And that business is hurting. Most industry companies are bidding for jobs just at, or below cost to keep some sort of activity going on.

So unless they're importing ink from Tir Na Nog and having the Aesir doing the proofing, the "printing stuff costs more now" excuse smells worse than a barroom toilet in Sturgis after bike week...

[MajorSoB]

This is outrageous!!!!!!!

I buy White Dwarf so I can be bombarded with self deprecating ads and promotions geared towards all those fanboyz out there that cant get enough of GW. I mean sure they sprinkle some quality painting and modeling tips in every so often, but what I look forward to is page after page of ads, followed by idiotic army selection and the battle reports that result from such forces clashing. I really like the LoTR part, yeah that game rocks ( no matter how few people play it). Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I especially like Standard Bearer where I can read word after word of half truths and never will be truths penned by Jervis Johnson. Now let me get this right, WD is going to add in useful content and rules like they did in Chapter Approved when Andy Chambers used to write it? Well I for one don't like it! Gimme back my White Dwarf! If you are going to make any change to it, please print it on a softer paper, two ply is best, so I can make use of it after I read it!

[eldargal]

Printing prices for A4 colour format have more than doubled in the past twelve months alone, it killed off a lot of small boutique magazines and put one of my favourites (The Chap) in danger for a while. Other formats have not increased quite so much.

Re your other point, this is a step forward for WD, just because they have gone backwards in the past doesn't mean they aren't going forwards again.:rolleyes: I'm not arguing that they are anywhere near where it used to be a decade or so ago. I just think this issue is a step in the right direction.


Um...It's easy to blame them. The price raised 50% in less than a year.

I"m sorry, printing doesn't cost that much. I know, I have a friend in the business. And that business is hurting. Most industry companies are bidding for jobs just at, or below cost to keep some sort of activity going on.

So unless they're importing ink from Tir Na Nog and having the Aesir doing the proofing, the "printing stuff costs more now" excuse smells worse than a barroom toilet in Sturgis after bike week...

[MajorSoB]

Eldar Girl:

Oddly enough I work in the printing industry and I am well aware of the cost of periodic publications as well as the cost associated with publishing softbound volumes like GW codex and army books.

1) The price of many periodic publications are often offset by advertising that is commonly sold throughout the magazine. GW has chosen to not follow this tried and true format which is fair enough, however they have also chosen to rarely include any valuable information either. You can get battle reports, painting tips and mindless opinion ( like mine for instance ) free on the internet. You don't have to pay $9 a month to see what GW will be selling you next month. If they want a better magazine, they should drop the price, maybe address some gamers questions on confusing rules, pull back the curtain of secrecy and give us a better idea of what they are working on, and publish some fun add on rules and fluff like they did before. $9 for a catalog isnt really a bargain anymore. Oh yeah, in the real world of printing if they are paying more than $1-2 dollars to have each issue printed they are being robbed!

2) Codex cost is even more overblown that each month's magazine. Real prepress cost as well as publishing per codex should never exceed $5-6 a book at the absolute highest estimate. Each codex contains a 4 color cover with a 16 page 4 color insert wrapped with back text pages and vector art. Their binding is sub par at best. Don't be fooled, GW makes $10-15 or more per codex sold. ( Much more in June when prices increase since printing costs have been flat over the past few years!)

My intention isnt to bash GW, but please be realistic about what they do well and what they dont do well. I enjoy the game and have many great memories of the time spent playing along with the friends I have made doing so, but I do call them like I see them as well. Spearhead is lackluster, they billed it as an exciting expansion to the game when in all reality it is just a thinly veiled plot to throw some rules at us to get us to buy formations of vehicles again. This was done much better with Apocalypse in my opinion.

[mysterex]

I haven't bought a copy of WD since they gave away a "free" terminator & nob to promote the release of Black Reach although I have flicked through other people's copies on a semi-regular basis.

I agree that most of the time you're just paying for advertising but I also think that the inclusion of a (part) rules set is a big step forward albeit from a low base. So this should be encouraged.

In fact I don't believe that regular rules releases are needed to make it worthwhile just decent articles. The last time I regularly bought it was when Index Astartes covering the main chapters/legions was included so a return to some decent background articles would be enough.

[eldargal]

Well, quite. But I never said GW did WD well, I said this issue is a step in the right direction. Scudawossname said GW raised the price of WD by 50%, I pointed out that printing prices for colour A4 have doubled. I've never claimed that WD is well priced or well done, it isn't. My points are that GW had a legitimate reason to raise prices from their point of view (to maintain profits), and that this issue is a step towards making WD a worthwhile magazine again. Regular infusions of content and a substantial price reduction would go a long way to making a WD subscription worthwhile.

Codices are ridiculously overpriced, no arguments there.



Eldar Girl:

Oddly enough I work in the printing industry and I am well aware of the cost of periodic publications as well as the cost associated with publishing softbound volumes like GW codex and army books.

1) The price of many periodic publications are often offset by advertising that is commonly sold throughout the magazine. GW has chosen to not follow this tried and true format which is fair enough, however they have also chosen to rarely include any valuable information either. You can get battle reports, painting tips and mindless opinion ( like mine for instance ) free on the internet. You don't have to pay $9 a month to see what GW will be selling you next month. If they want a better magazine, they should drop the price, maybe address some gamers questions on confusing rules, pull back the curtain of secrecy and give us a better idea of what they are working on, and publish some fun add on rules and fluff like they did before. $9 for a catalog isnt really a bargain anymore. Oh yeah, in the real world of printing if they are paying more than $1-2 dollars to have each issue printed they are being robbed!

2) Codex cost is even more overblown that each month's magazine. Real prepress cost as well as publishing per codex should never exceed $5-6 a book at the absolute highest estimate. Each codex contains a 4 color cover with a 16 page 4 color insert wrapped with back text pages and vector art. Their binding is sub par at best. Don't be fooled, GW makes $10-15 or more per codex sold. ( Much more in June when prices increase since printing costs have been flat over the past few years!)

My intention isnt to bash GW, but please be realistic about what they do well and what they dont do well. I enjoy the game and have many great memories of the time spent playing along with the friends I have made doing so, but I do call them like I see them as well. Spearhead is lackluster, they billed it as an exciting expansion to the game when in all reality it is just a thinly veiled plot to throw some rules at us to get us to buy formations of vehicles again. This was done much better with Apocalypse in my opinion.

[Madness]

That's not how profit works
If I spend 10€ to make a magazine and sell it at 15€, if suddenly the cost of printing doubles:

1. My cost doesn't become 20€ since print is not the only expense I have
2. Even if the cost becomes 20€ to maintain the profit I should price it 25€, not 30€.

[rbryce]

as someone who rarely gets to leave my house let alone get a game in, i buy the dwarf more as a way of getting the sense of community other gamers get on a regular basis. heck, i can name more of their writers/design team etc than i can gamers in my county, im not a fan-boy, i realise the problems with the "rag", and the company in general, but i CHOOSE not to whine every day online about how a global corporation presents itself, at least they arent using child labour in taiwan to produce my hobby. as to the "its not as good as i remember" stuff, no its not as good as you remember, but is anything(hmmmm, 80s horror films. oh cap, look at the new sequals!), i just unpack my stack of older dwarfs and utilise them with the newer stuff thats out, or look to my own imagination to come up with scenarios/rules etc. like they did in the old days before TV and the PC. a lot end up being pants, but on occasion a gem appears. Is this expansion as great as we thought it would be? no. but is it a starting point for inspiration? in that sense it is a success. the only thing i want them to show in the dwarf is the life-sized working rhino tank(they promised pics, where are they? under the NMM marneus calgar is where!)

[eldargal]

GW didn't double the price of WD, so what is your point?

Lets do some comparison here, shall we?

WD 210, June 1997. Cover price £3.50
WD 366, June 2010. Cover price £4.50

That is an increase of one pound/approx 30% (I'm too lazy to work it out exactly) in thirteen years, over which time inflation in Britain was around 20% and printing costs have increased dramatically. Those greedy, greedy *******s.


That's not how profit works
If I spend 10€ to make a magazine and sell it at 15€, if suddenly the cost of printing doubles:

1. My cost doesn't become 20€ since print is not the only expense I have
2. Even if the cost becomes 20€ to maintain the profit I should price it 25€, not 30€.

[Gotthammer]

It's just off 23%.

[DarkLink]

GW didn't double the price of WD, so what is your point?

Lets do some comparison here, shall we?

WD 210, June 1997. Cover price £3.50
WD 366, June 2010. Cover price £4.50

That is an increase of one pound/approx 30% (I'm too lazy to work it out exactly) in thirteen years, over which time inflation in Britain was around 20% and printing costs have increased dramatically. Those greedy, greedy *******s.

Besides, it's $9 in the US. For 7-8, I can pick up a magazine off the shelf at a grocery store that is 60-80 pages. That $1-2 increase covers the extra 40 or so pages in the WD. I don't think its unreasonable.

Not that I'd buy it anyways, but thats for a different reason than price.

[scadugenga]

Re your other point, this is a step forward for WD, just because they have gone backwards in the past doesn't mean they aren't going forwards again.:rolleyes: I'm not arguing that they are anywhere near where it used to be a decade or so ago. I just think this issue is a step in the right direction.

They are regaining ground, yes. I'll concede that. We'll see if they continue to do so.

But at $9.00 US a pop, it's still in the "ludicrous" end of the spectrum for me.

Fortunately, I have friends who carry the subscription, so I can get updates as to the overall quality.

[scadugenga]

Besides, it's $9 in the US. For 7-8, I can pick up a magazine off the shelf at a grocery store that is 60-80 pages. That $1-2 increase covers the extra 40 or so pages in the WD. I don't think its unreasonable.

Not that I'd buy it anyways, but thats for a different reason than price.


What mag are you picking up for $7-8? At a grocery store?

Most periodicals run in the $4-6 range in the US.

@ Eldargirl: £4.50 right now is approx. US $6.39 (at current conversion rates). So you're paying just under 2/3 of what we are over here. And I'm guessing that includes the VAT? Now mostly periodicals aren't taxed here, but some twits @ GW stores in the Chicago area are charging tax as well, bumping the price to closer to US $10.

[Papa Nurgle]

I looked at it, let my friend buy it, and will what I need from him.

[DarkLink]

What mag are you picking up for $7-8? At a grocery store?

Most periodicals run in the $4-6 range in the US.


Well, maybe all the groceries stores in my area are ripping everyone off. Or you're talking about tabloids or the like. But I seem to recall having to pay $7-8 whenever I wanted to get a full magazine.

[Melissia]

And yet, for all the apologists trying to defend White Dwarf, I still can't find any reason to pay for an issue of it when I can get more than enough BETTER information online.

[Javin]

I agree Melissa. However, I bought mine in the hopes greater White Dwarf sales would encourage more fun additions to the game. If sales go up when a White Dwarf has new units or rules introduced, perhaps a trend will be established. If we sit around and go, well, not good enough, GW may think - well that was a fun experiment- and not put out new units or expansions in White Dwarf for some time to come.

I think the WD is overpriced and rarely has useful content. I feel I have to support it when it does.

[BuFFo]

I agree Melissa. However, I bought mine in the hopes greater White Dwarf sales would encourage more fun additions to the game. If sales go up when a White Dwarf has new units or rules introduced, perhaps a trend will be established. If we sit around and go, well, not good enough, GW may think - well that was a fun experiment- and not put out new units or expansions in White Dwarf for some time to come.

I think the WD is overpriced and rarely has useful content. I feel I have to support it when it does.

So you've been supporting the mag since 2002ish then? Cuz that was when the mag went downhill, mid 3rd edition. I am surprised hobbyists feel this is a recent thing. Every year, it seems people gripe about the magazine, as if it is a new trend. lol!

You keep paying for a monthly advertising catalog, and I'll just keep using Google.

When GW creates a Hobby magazine again, then I'll consider buying it.

[Kirsten]

Well, I found it to be the best WD in a long time, and it makes me very hopeful that WD will start to improve and deliver new content.


I hope this becomes a trend, and not just a one-shot thing. I don't expect a ton of new stuff every month, but a few things would be cool.

It does say in this issue that there will be more, so I shall look forward to it.


I was dissapointed with the Spearhead expansion in WD as well.

Speaking of which, I am not sure I like the new style of the battle report.

Well spearhead was free, so you can't really complain. I didn't like the battle report much either, their over the top story telling style made it actually rather difficult to determine what the result of some shooting was. At one point I couldn't actually tell what damage result the eldar skimmer had received, which was annoying. Likewise when they spoke about scorpions being swathed in flames, well we know they have a 3+ save, so in game terms, getting set on fire really not an issue. Situations like that where narrative and rules do not sit well side by side really make their new style hard to follow.


The fact is this is the first unit rules published in a WD in years, it is a big change and it should be encouraged. Add in the spearhead supplement and you have the best issue of WD in a long, long time (which I admit is not saying much). This is a huge positive and should be supported so perhaps one day we have a WD that is worht subscribing too.

Definitely


in all reality it is just a thinly veiled plot to throw some rules at us to get us to buy formations of vehicles again. This was done much better with Apocalypse in my opinion.

Damn them for wanting to make money and give people something new to do, how very dare they.


WD 210, June 1997. Cover price £3.50
WD 366, June 2010. Cover price £4.50

Certainly in the UK WD is a very standard magazine price, the same or less than all the video gaming magazines, so I have no issue there. It has had one of the smallest price increases all in all. Pretty much everything else has doubled since I started playing, even things like spray paint.

They do have some real problems with the magazine, certainly it is nothing like its' heyday around the 216-217 mark (in my opinion) when every issue was exciting and had all sorts of new stuff. However, they are turning things around, Spearhead is the first of things to come, so lets give them a chance and acknowledge the fact it is a step in the right direction. One thing I do really dislike though, removing the prices from the magazine. Especially for the direct only bitz packs. Most kits you can estimate the price easy enough, but the conversion packs are anyone's guess. It is a pet hate of mine, so many places do catalogues or have online stores without prices on, and you have to go look them up elsewhere or download a pdf. or something. It is distinctly unhelpful and always makes me think that the company in question must be trying to hide something, that they are all rather embarrassed by their prices.

[DarkLink]

Damn them for wanting to make money and give people something new to do, how very dare they.



Right! They need to stop making models, as they're obviously only doing so in order to steal people money!:rolleyes:;)

[Kirsten]

Right! They need to stop making models, as they're obviously only doing so in order to steal people money!:rolleyes:;)

The fiends!