5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

[Akaiyou]

I'd like to take it one Force Organization Branch at a time per thread starting with the Heavy Support choices in this one. A different thread for HQs and so on..

And what we'll do will be comparing the options in each FO slot and discussing the pros/cons of their 'options'

Also if possible when you make a post and then later decide to 'add' or change information instead of making a new post try to just edit the current one this will save time for people reading through your thoughts if it's all in one post rather than scattered about through the thread.

HEAVY SUPPORT

TYRANNOFEX

Overview
- I found that this unit was a hit or miss. Much like it's ballistic skill it could go either way in terms of usefulness during a game. It simply doesnt do enough in combat, it's slow and it's ranged weaponry leaves something to be desired. It's highlight seems to be it's defense.

PROS
Extremely durable Longest ranged anti-vehicle we can get

CONS
BS 3 and not enough shoots Other ranged weaponry has crap range Doesn't pack enough punch for the price tag Sucks as much as a Tervigon in close combat

Options
Ranged
Fleshborer Hive - Looks amazing on paper, but has very little use on the battlefield. It's a glorified batch of 20 gaunts worth of shooting. When was the last time 20 gaunts shooting won you a game? Horrible upgrade.

Rupture Cannon - Probably it's best weapon for it's massive range and strength by Nid standards. This our ranged can-opener. But comes with a hefty price.

Acid Spray - Comes standard and is useful, it would be much better if the Tyrannofex was actually good in combat. However you must consider that running up close enough to use this flamer is no easy task. This makes it a major downside however Acid Spray is much better than Fleshborerhive.

Stinger Salvo - Sucks, only 4 shots hitting 50% of the time at S5 makes this a very poor choice.

Cluster Spines - Much better than Stinger Salvo since it's not handicapped by the ballistic skill and can hit many enemies at a time, works great at clearing crowds of low T, poor armour infantry.

Optional
Thorax Weapons - They all compliment acid spray really well and Fleshborer Hive, but lose value paired with Rupture Cannon.
- Grubs version - Good strength means it works really well paired with Acid Spray as they will normally do good against same targets.
- Beetles version - Avoid it, the rending seems nice but low strength and low chance to actually rend makes it pointless.
- Larvae version - Great choice, you most likely wont be flaming vehicles anyway, so it best with Acid Spray since you'll wound most targets on 2s with both.

Biomorphs
Regeneration - Great choice for any MC with 6 wounds, this is a general rule that applies to all of them. Gives the most bang for the buck.
Adrenal Glands - A bit pointless the bonuses you get from Furious Charge won't make much of a difference against most targets. S7 and I2 is only useful if you are assaulting vehicles up close or if u want to try and nail that power first before it hits.
Toxin Sacs - Worst choice possible, actually makes the Tyrannofex worst. There aren't enough T7+ enemies in the game to make TS worth while for a Tyrannofex.

TRYGON

Overview
- After extensive use of the Trygon and Trygon Prime i've grown to like them more compared to my initial thoughts that they were horrible and only good for being fire magnets and a points sink. The Trygon must be used strategically i realized, so do not be fooled by his size and how mean he looks, he's still a gaunt at heart. Treat him with care and he will reward you greatly. This is definetly one of the better choices to fill up those Heavy Support slots.

PROS
Fire Magnet, can easily draw fire away from other units Has fleet Can be a synapse creature if needed Has an alternate method of deployment just in case

CONS
Fire Magnet, it wont live very long Can't assault when using alternate deployment Very difficult to gain cover benefits with

To Prime Or Not To Prime
- Absolutely. The Prime adds Synapse which is always a plus in most cases and it provides stronger ranged weaponry. At 40 pts a piece this may not seem worth it, but remember the Trygon standard has average leadership and suffers from IB. This means his Ld value can be abused by any wise opponent so being able to deny this exploit and also support the rest of your army is a great benefit gained.

Ranged
- There aren't any options, other than getting a Prime. So I'll just cover this by stating that the standard load out isn't very good or reliable. Short range and BS 3 pretty much makes it crap. The Trygon Prime doubles the shot output and increases range making the weapon decent i've been able to use it on many occasions whilst i've yet to find use for the standard load out's ranged firepower.

Biomorphs
Adrenal Glands - Yes, it's a good choice to get your licks in before anything at I4 and the Trygon has the speed to ensure you get the charge in most cases. So it's a good deal and helps with vehicles.

Regeneration - Yes, same general rule applies 6 wounds is ideal for Regen.

Toxin Sacs - Steer away from the sacs with anything S6 because it'll decrease your combat power when you would be wounding on 2s (83% success) you'll drop to (75%) and all this to tackle the very few T6+ enemies in the game. Which you can bog down with other things.

OLD ONE EYE

Overview
- I do not own any models and don't have anything suitable for proxy (no i will not use the current Carnifex model for it bleh) So I have no data on him, however I am considering running it in some Vassal games just to get a few words to put on here about him if possible.

MAWLOC

Overview
- Hit or miss unit, it's a gamble however this is one of the 'better' gambles that you can make with the tyranid army. It's affordable and if it works can pay off big time in more ways than one.

PROS
Alternate method of deployment that causes heavy damage to infantry and vehicles alike Special ability can affect multiple units S6 Monstrous Creature so always a thread to vehicles Hit & Run to save it from being locked in combat Very affordable

CONS
Weak in combat Fire Magnet It's special ability is only guaranteed 33.3% of the time

Biomorphs
Adrenal Glands - Avoid, it's not a bad upgrade because it can help pop vehicles open and/or improve your chances in combat however the Mawloc simply isn't good enough to do heavy damage in 1 round of combat and it has the strength to pry vehicles open without needing furious charge.

Regeneration - Yes, same general rule applies 6 wounds is ideal for Regen.

Toxin Sacs - Steer away from the sacs with anything S6 because it'll decrease your combat power when you would be wounding on 2s (83% success) you'll drop to (75%) and all this to tackle the very few T6+ enemies in the game. Which you can bog down with other thing

CARNIFEX

Overview
- Neutered since last codex. Or is it called re-balanced? Any how the Carnifex is an empty shell of it's former self, however this doesn't mean that it sucks completely, as it is the most versatile of heavy support choices and that can take it a long way.

PROS
Superb versatility Can take many options Can form broods Can use mycetic spores Incredible Strength Is good at combat no matter what direction you go with it

CONS
Expensive Broods must be equipped all the same Vulnerable fire magnet Only 4 wounds

Close Combat Weapons
Crushing Claws - Suck because of the random chance and lowered initiative. Don't take it.
Scything Talons - Great and comes by default making it even better. Able to re-roll missed hits against anything.

Ranged Weapons
Twin-Linked Brainleech Worms - More powerful, but pretty expensive. Worth the price tag? Yes, if u can afford it.
Twin-Linked Deathspitters - N/A
Stranglethorn Cannon - N/A
Heavy Venom Cannon - A mixed bag, on one hand it is more reliable and able to pop tanks, but lowered chance to hit and less strength to pack a punch as well as being 1 shot only versus vehicles. Can be worth it but there's better set ups.

Biomorphs
Adrenal Glands - Good upgrade if you want to focus on close combat this can aid the carnifexes initiative and strength values greatly.

Bio-Plasma - Decent upgrade, it's only downside is that it has short range and is not cheap to take. But killing just 1 terminator with it earns it's points back.

Frag Spines - Good upgrade for combat oriented carnifexes.

Regeneration - No, too expensive and doesn't get much mileage since 1 carnifex is very easy to kill in 1 turn of shooting.

Toxin Sacs - Worst possible unit to use toxin sacs on since it's high strength already allows it to wound just about anything on 2+

Transport Options
Mycetic Spore - Sweet, not a must-have but a very very good way of disrupting the enemy forces works the best when used with carnifexes equipped with a pair of Twin-Linked Brainleech Worms allowing you to shoot and then charge into combat the next turn. Only downside to a spore is that your fex will suffer IB most likely and only 1 Carnifex fits in one.

BIOVORES

Overview
- Great improvement over previous codex. These guys are what the rest of the Heavy Support choices should've been like in terms of overall value. Highly recommended.

PROS
Great range Very affordable Very damaging against most infantry Even if it misses it can still do damage as the spores linger on the table

CONS
Vulnerable to instant death from a great deal of weapons Hitting the intended target is a gamble Weak to Useless against vehicles Very weak vs close combat for a Tyranid

OVERALL RANKING [Based on my PERSONAL OPINION]
1. Biovore - Best heavy support choice can maul infantry easily, deny cover, pin them. Just make sure your army can deal with tanks either with zoanthropes, hive guards or other means.
2. Trygon Prime - The added synapse really does help a lot if you want no zoanthropes as elites or want your troops to include no warriors/tervigons.
3. Mawloc - Let's admit it, when it works it pretty much means lights out for the opponent.
4. Carnifex - If you can keep them cheap and get them within range they'll put on a world of hurt on the enemy.
5. Trygon - Still decent but pricey.
6. Tyrannofex - MUST take Rupture Cannon otherwise it becomes nearly unplayable with it's poor close range stats.
7. Old One Eye - Needs play testing before I form any opinion on him.

[DarkLink]

Overview
- Neutered since last codex. Or is it called re-balanced?

Depends on if you're a 'nidz player or not;).

[aztex3400]

AG gives the unit poison. I believe that the BRB states that if a unit that has poison and its base to wound roll is better that you get to re-roll wounds.

[Fizyx]

AG gives the unit poison. I believe that the BRB states that if a unit that has poison and its base to wound roll is better that you get to re-roll wounds.

He factored that in. The 50% chance for 4+ plus a re-roll to make 75% is still inferior to the 83% chance to wound on a 2+.

Toxin sacs are really only viable on something S4 with rending, imo. You'll effectively roll more dice, thereby increasing the chance to roll a 6 dramatically. They have marginal benefit on a s3 model. It may not be worth it to me, but some people find it effective.

[HiveFleetTiamat]

I disagree with you Tyrannofex theory. It is one of the nest choice as it stands. It has fantastic fire power in both anti vehicle and anti infantry slots. It is the best way to slow a Land raider down that we nid players have. I find that it also does a great job absorbing fire from more important things that are the bigger threat, such as a Swarmlord. Trygons are nice but they are iffy if you do not focus around using them. Mawlocs are ungodly poor choice and biovores don't fit in todays meta game. Trygon Prime and Tyrannofexs are the only viable Tyranid heavy. OOE is just a waste as is all Carnifexs.

[Tynskel]

heheh, I love this arguing!

I have found that I like Mawlocs--- I like deep striking right into the enemy, surrounding the opponent with other deep strikers, and watching the opponent squirm when they have to remove models to make room for the Mawloc.

Tyrannofexes are just a fun firebase--- debate over the Rupture cannon a lot--- I really like the acid spray.

Carnifexes-- I like to slip them into a pod, and make them Screamer Killers--- I have one of the old Screamer Killers (sooooo long ago!), and so I am very happy he/she/it vomits again!


I agree that Trygons and Mawlocs really need an over arching strategic design for the army. However, Tyranids have always been a finesse army, and you have to take combinations of units because no one unit is super.

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Trygons are as close as it gets to an all-purpose unit in the tyranid army: terrifying in close combat, lots of attacks to deal with horde infantry, high strength and MC status to chew through heavy infantry, all of which is useful when attacking vehicles(and it re-rolls misses, too!), and it even has an Assault 6(12) ranged weapon that's strong enough to damage rear armor. Oh, and it deep strikes and lets your reserves deploy in your opponent's backfield. Pretty much a no-brainer decision to include a couple of these beasties in your army.
The Mawloc, on the other hand... well, I can't really speak to it's battlefield performance because, while owning a (admittedly, very cool looking) model, and using it in half a dozen games, I've had absolutely abysmal luck with it. Not once has he managed to deepstrike onto enemy models. I recently hit upon the idea of deploying him at the start of the battle to guarantee a second turn reappearance, but he's never lived long enough to make a second go of it in a game... as such he has been indefinitely retired from my hive fleet.

[Tynskel]

I was thinking about regeneration for Fexes--- I haven't tried it, but...

If you are taking a brood of fexes, it seems that it would be worth while to take the Regen. You have already invested an enormous amount of points, and the ability to at least save some wounds would be useful. The only problem is the same problem as with just one Fex--- you fail 4 armor saves, you have a dead Carnifex that cannot regen.

[Tynskel]

I still ponder about Toxin Glands...

If you are dealing with T5 or higher as a Tyranid Monsterous Creature, the Poison Glands are awesome---

Examples:
Bike Armies
Nurgle Armies
Wraith Guard/Lord Armies
Daemon Princes, Enemy TMC, and Monsterous Creatures in general

It comes down to 'what do you use your MC to kill'.

However, this really comes down to 'meta-gaming' (but that's the whole point of the forum, anyhow...), and this would be designing your list to counter certain aspects.

I do think that if you are fighting bikes on a regular basis (or chaos) upgrading to Toxin Sacs is a worth while upgrade.

[Unlighted]

Carnifexes are more fragile now that they can be insta killed, but they are even better in CC now. If you give them Adrenal Glands and Frag Spines they get 5 I4 S10 hits on the charge with re-rolls to hit no matter the terrain.

Carnifexes used to be lone engines of destruction, but now they have to work with the rest of the army to do their jobs. If you take a brood of Venomthropes and keep them within 6 of your Carnifex brood/broods your Carnifexes now have a +5 Cover Save even in the open. Anything that assaults your Carnifexes won't get bonus attacks for charging and will have to take dangerous terrain tests because of the Venomthropes.

The Carnifex should be the rock solid center of any mutually supportive Nid army. If you want an army that fights in isolated sections then you shouldn't use Carnifexes. Its all or nothing in terms of Carnifexes now.

Toxin Sacs
If you're gonna be fighting T4 or better armies then I highly suggest putting Toxin Sacs on your little critters.

I fought an eldar army that had 2 Wraithlords(T8), 10 Wraithguard(T6), an Avatar(T6), and 3 squads of jet bikes(T4). I used 2 broods of 20 Hormaguants with Toxin Sacs (poison) and killed everything, but one Wraithlord and a squad of bikes before my heavy hitters got to charge in and mop up what was left. My hormaguants wounded everything on a +4 including those nasty Wraithlords which are usually immune to anything strength 4 or below. I hate needing 5s to wound basic infantry so Toxin Sacs are now a must for my Hormaguants.

My Carnifexes don't need any help to wound things since they have a basic strength of 9.

[randyh]

No OOE love?

He's a beast when paired with Swarmlord and given preferred enemy! I've fielded him 3 times and had great results all 3 times. Granted it wasn't against space wolves =o