Space Marine Captain with 2 Bolters? And more!

[Serg]

Hi, first time poster and I feel kind of bad asking a question about the rules, but I am getting back into the game and am trying to make a unique army.

I currently possess an unpainted unassembled, (well, roughly) Space Marine Captain with a Storm Bolter and a Power Weapon.

Now, after going through the Codex a few times and writing down all the possibilities I've come to the conclusion that you can take TWO of any item listed as "Replace Bolt Pistol and/or Chainsword."

Again now, the potential options are ranging from boltgun to storm bolter to combi weapons to exotic power weapons and even a storm shield, but what exactly are the limits and how do they interact with each other?

If I switch out the bolt pistol and the chainsword for a bolt gun each, do I get to shoot twice as many shots as previously allowed? I believe that I read somewhere that it would be considered a 'twin-linked' bolter for gameplay purposes, but how about if I switched one out for a boltgun and one out for a storm bolter? Or, a plasma pistol and a combi-plasma?

And combi-weapons are boltguns, correct? What if I take a combi-flamer and a combi-melta, can I fire both in the same turn? Do I have to select one weapon to fire? I think that answers my question actually, as I think about it.

And an additional question, combi-weapons for terminator armor are boltguns? Or stormbolters? Can I get combi-stormbolters on a regular power armoured Captain?

How about bikes, on a slightly related note, if I take a combi-flamer, a combi-melta Captain on a bike and don't move for a turn, or move at combat speed, it claims 'all-weapons' as Bikes are 'fast.'

Sorry if some of these have been covered, but I've browsed the web and havn't been able to find something about them.

And one more thing, if plasma pistols count as pistols, they count as close combat weapons, correct? Does this mean if I choose 2 of them I can 'twin-link' them while firing normally, and still gain an extra attack in melee?

Thanks, here is a summary of some of the questions because my writing might be a little scattered:
1) Can I take 2 bolters, (stormbolters, combi, plasmapistols) and how does it work in a game?
2) Can I take 2 range weapons, eg 1 bolter 1 storm bolter, and how does it work in a game?
3) Are combi-weapons boltgun only, or can they be applied to stormbolters?
4) How do bikes work when considering a unit's hand-held weaponry, can I fire all 3 potential weapons at once?
5) Dual plasma pistols, are they twin-linked as potentially hinted from another source, and do they count as an extra attack in melee? Can I take a plasma pistol and a bolt pistol and gain the extra attack also?

Thanks again!

[Baron Spikey]

Thanks, here is a summary of some of the questions because my writing might be a little scattered:
1) Can I take 2 bolters, (stormbolters, combi, plasmapistols) and how does it work in a game?
You can take 2 Bolters, there's no benefit to it because you can only fire 1 weapon a turn unless the unit's special rules say otherwise (and no the bolters don't count as twin-linked)

2) Can I take 2 range weapons, eg 1 bolter 1 storm bolter, and how does it work in a game?
See 1)

3) Are combi-weapons boltgun only, or can they be applied to stormbolters?
They're boltguns with the added weapon (flamer, melta, plasma gun) that has a 1 shot charge to it.

4) How do bikes work when considering a unit's hand-held weaponry, can I fire all 3 potential weapons at once?
No you can choose to fire 1 weapon, the bike's or which ever of your rider's ranged weapons.

5) Dual plasma pistols, are they twin-linked as potentially hinted from another source, and do they count as an extra attack in melee? Can I take a plasma pistol and a bolt pistol and gain the extra attack also?
Pistols count as a CCW so if you take 2 you get the +1A but they wont be tiwn-linked unless the unit's rules say otherwise (like Seraphim).
Thanks again!

There you go.

[sebi81]

what you wrote about a captain on bike let me think you believe bikes work like vehicles. but they don't. they aren't vehicles at all and don't move on cruising speed etc. they may move up to twelve inches and fire one weapon. and they can turboboost. reread the bikes section in the rulebook.

to keep it easy for you: every model which isn't a monstrous creature or a verhicle may only fire one of its ranged weapons in every shooting phase. if it has two or more, it must choose which one to fire and doesn't get a benefit from having two ranged weapons. this includes infantry, cavalry, jump packs, bikes and jetbikes. there are special rules which can change this, for example can a trike fire two weapons, cause it has a driver and a gunner, but normally only one shot per model.

[Serg]

Thanks, both of you. The bike comment was just based off the 'quick vehicle reference' that said any vehicle stationary could fire 'All Weapons' and fast vehicles moving at combat speed could still fire 'All Weapons.'

Oh well, there goes any creativity I might've had with that character. Thanks, again.

[DarkLink]

Thanks, both of you. The bike comment was just based off the 'quick vehicle reference' that said any vehicle stationary could fire 'All Weapons' and fast vehicles moving at combat speed could still fire 'All Weapons.'

Oh well, there goes any creativity I might've had with that character. Thanks, again.

Well, neither a Captain nor a Bike is a vehicle, so those rules don't apply. You'll have to apply your creativity elsewhere;).

[beeny13]

agreed witht he above, but if you wanted a twin linked bolter in a friendly game against me i would totally allow it. as with plasma pistol. what can i say--jon woo is awesome.

[Serg]

The bike question was mostly one that popped up in my head as I was reading through the rules again. My dream was to have two storm bolters or twin link them. But, it's okay, time to go with the VANILLA RELIC + STORM SHIELD.

Thanks again, guys.

[Nabterayl]

My dream was to have two storm bolters or twin link them.
Out of curiosity, what exactly was the original idea? Because a twin-linked bolter and a storm bolter replicates the effect of two bolters at both 12" and 24", and a captain on a bike with a storm bolter can legally have both of those weapons. So you could model a captain on a bike wielding a bolter in each hand and have it count as a captain on a bike with a storm bolter, and I can't see anybody complaining.

[Serg]

Out of curiosity, what exactly was the original idea? Because a twin-linked bolter and a storm bolter replicates the effect of two bolters at both 12" and 24", and a captain on a bike with a storm bolter can legally have both of those weapons. So you could model a captain on a bike wielding a bolter in each hand and have it count as a captain on a bike with a storm bolter, and I can't see anybody complaining.

Oh, no, I was just going through the potential reasons, '2 bolters' wasn't the idea, but '2 ranged weapons' was more along the lines of what I wanted to do. Just how did it work if I did decide to choose two ranged weapons.

[Torcano]

Well in one post you say you were doing this for "creative" reasons, and now you say it was for purely gameplay reasons.

IF you wanted to do this for creative reasons, you could. As someone else mentioned you could definately model 2 of any gun for appearance/creativity. If you didn't want purely practical and efficient wargear then this would be a great option in fact.

However you apparently have no interest in being creative (so don't pretend you do). The word for what you are is a "min/maxer". You are trying to find the a powerful combination, not a cool one.

[AirHorse]

em finding effective setups within the rules is still being creative, fluffing isnt the only way to be creative. Also might want to be less of an *** too.

[Serg]

However you apparently have no interest in being creative (so don't pretend you do). The word for what you are is a "min/maxer". You are trying to find the a powerful combination, not a cool one.

Hi, I'm sorry if I came off as a 'min/max' kind of a person, that isn't the case. Do I consider two stormbolters, powerful? Yes, but I consider them more along the lines of 'hey, my captain is going into battle with two stormbolters, dakka dakka dakka.' But are two stormbolters more or less powerful then a relic blade and storm shield? Creatively it is a pretty good idea, (to me at least,) but gameplay-wise it doesn't pan out to any more then being potentially detrimental to my army. Instead after reading the replies in this thread I came up with a conversion idea for him and my entire army so that will tide me over for all this disappointment about sweet loadouts for my captain.

And, uh, yeah, everything you said came across as pretty rude, might want to tone it down a tad? Thanks.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, I'd hardly call it min/maxing to wonder/wish if it's possible to build a gun-based generic space marine HQ. Alas, it really isn't.

[DarkLink]

However you apparently have no interest in being creative (so don't pretend you do). The word for what you are is a "min/maxer". You are trying to find the a powerful combination, not a cool one.

I don't think that a 100 point model with two whole bolters and not much else would be considered powerful in any sense of the term, so I'd say you missed where he was coming from.

[Commissar Lewis]

Now, two combi weapons would be fairly good. And make for a damned cool looking model. One combi-flamer, one combi-plasma or combi-melta.

[Col.Straken]

Play Space Wolves, you can make Cypher!

Lone Wolf, with Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol, Mark of the Wulfen, 15pts, decent in combat, can shoot either a plasma shot, or a Bolt shot, good fun, and great modelling opportunity!

Could always go for a Relic Blade and Storm Shield guy with an Auxilary Grenade launcher coming over his shoulder (Predator style) or under his arm for something creative.

[Allandaros]

Play Space Wolves, you can make Cypher!

Lone Wolf, with Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol, Mark of the Wulfen, 15pts, decent in combat, can shoot either a plasma shot, or a Bolt shot, good fun, and great modelling opportunity!


Heh, the most iconic Fallen character turns out to be a Space Wolf.
The Dark Angels all go "We knew it!"
The Space Wolves all go "Wait, one of those geeks joined US?"
Seven battle-brothers on both sides have heart attacks (and for a Space Marine, that's saying something!).

Yes yes I know you meant rules-wise rather than fluff-wise. Quiet, it's funnier this way.

[Col.Straken]

Heh, the most iconic Fallen character turns out to be a Space Wolf.
The Dark Angels all go "We knew it!"
The Space Wolves all go "Wait, one of those geeks joined US?"
Seven battle-brothers on both sides have heart attacks (and for a Space Marine, that's saying something!).

Yes yes I know you meant rules-wise rather than fluff-wise. Quiet, it's funnier this way.

I actually found it extreamly amusing fluff wise when I realised that I could make Cypher using Space Wolves! So amusing that I spent the rest of the day building him! Using all the Dark Angels bits, except for the guns.

It caused no end of laughter at my local club having Cypher one of the most iconic Dark Angels running around with the Space Wolves, when they hate each other!

[sebi81]

I really like tis idea... In fact the only reason why I didn't count my Fallen Angels as Space Wolves was Cypher. But as Space Wolves they would have the ability to take plasma cannons and still have pistol an boltgun. I'll have to think about this...