Destroyed Unit

[Ymir]

So if I have a transport and my opponent completely surrounds it and wrecks/destroys it, is the unit inside automatically destroyed? I have had this done to me in a few tournaments.

[BuFFo]

No, that was 4th edition.

Now, you have Emergency Disembarkation, which may help save your models.

If you cannot use ED, which is very rare, then yes, your unit will die.

[Ymir]

Ok. Well he says that ED doesn't work because I can't place any of my models within 1" of his. So with the 2" from the hull via ED I would still be within 1" of his models.

Example. I have a Rhino with Grey Hunters in it. He completely surrounds it with Ork Boyz. He glances it til it is Wrecked. He says I can't ED without being within 1" of his models.

So I hate asking this, but can you explain it to me how I would be able to ED. This player is constantly winning games doing this surround and wreck tactic. I would like to be able to explain to him that ED will work. Thank you for your help ahead of time.

[Nabterayl]

It's true that you can't place any models within 1" of his. However, you are not moving your models when you ED; you're placing them, as if they were materializing (pedantic, but if you need to play rules hardball with this guy, perhaps you don't mind being pedantic). Thus, even if your transport is completely surrounded by 25mm bases, you are completely within your rights to do an emergency disembarkation with your own bases barely touching the line that runs 2" around the transport. As you know, the base of disembarking models only needs to be touching the 2" line. As you also know, 2" is 50.8mm, which means you can be 2" away from the transport and more than 1" away from the 25mm bases surrounding it. If your base is barely touching that 2" line, and the enemy 25mm bases are in base to base contact with the transport, then your base is 25.8mm or 1.03" away from the enemy model. As I said, pedantic, but legal.

Now, if your transport is surrounded by 40mm bases you'd be out of luck, but most units that come on 40mm bases are incapable of fully surrounding a transport anyway. A trickier situation is where the transport is completely surrounded by 25mm bases, not all of which managed to get into base contact with the vehicle - in that case, there may be breaks in the 2" line where you couldn't place models. But a 25mm model in base contact with a destroyed vehicle does absolutely nothing to prevent an emergency disembarkation 2" away from said vehicle.

This assumes, of course, that you are not using the INAT FAQ for this particular issue. INAT essentially takes the stance that you are moving your models when you ED, rather than materializing them. This is, of course, the common sense approach, but it is also plainly not what the rules actually say. So unless your particular group has formally adopted INAT, and as long as you feel okay insisting on the letter of the rules in this instance, you can take advantage of the above.

EDIT: I don't mean to insult your understanding of the rules, but how many boyz is he using to wreck a transport through glances? With a 0.009% chance per S4 attack of getting a damage result (unless your transports are for some reason moving at combat speed), I would think that even 30 slugga boyz with a PK nob would not be able to do that on a regular basis. Even against a combat speed transport for him to be able to pull this off on a regular basis kind of blows my mind.

[Ymir]

TY. I just re-read the rulebook and came up with the same conclusion. I thank you 2 for all your help.

[Tynskel]

don't forget, the entire unit doesn't have to make the disembarkation. The rulebook (p.67) states only individual models that cannot be placed are destroyed. If you can only fit, for example, 3 models of 10 that were embarked, only 3 models are placed, and the rest are destroyed, and you choose which models are placed.

[Allandaros]

don't forget, the entire unit doesn't have to make the disembarkation. The rulebook (p.67) states only individual models that cannot be placed are destroyed. If you can only fit, for example, 3 models of 10 that were embarked, only 3 models are placed, and the rest are destroyed, and you choose which models are placed.

Oh man! Thanks for pointing this out - I've definitely played games where the squad was wiped out because not all of them could fit. :o Thanks for the info, Tynskel!

[Lerra]

Also, you can place models on top of a wreck. It's considered dangerous terrain, but you can still emergency disembark there. That should help you save a few models even if there is a horde of orks surrounding the tank.

[SeattleDV8]

Also, you can place models on top of a wreck. It's considered dangerous terrain, but you can still emergency disembark there. That should help you save a few models even if there is a horde of orks surrounding the tank.

No you can't.
BRB pg. 67 "The passengers must immediately disembark......After this, the vehicle becomes a wreck."
At the time when you are disembarking it is still a vehicle and you may not place your models on it.

[karandras]

I think I agree with DV8 here. Not sure how a disembark should supercede the 1" rule. I've always considered it a disembark move as opposed to a disembark materialization.

I have always considered a wrecked result to force a disembark move. Any models that are unable to disembark due to the vehicle being surrounded etc are destroyed. On an explodes result, it's a little different because the vehicle is removed and replaced with a crater, where models can often be placed and still be outside of 1" distance from any enemy models.

I guess if one would avoid driving loaded transports into huge mobs, thus allowing them to be surrounded and their access points blocked, it would cease to be an issue!!!

[Nabterayl]

I've always considered it a disembark move as opposed to a disembark materialization.
I agree that's the reasonable way to play it - indeed, the only reasonable way to play it. However, I think it's plain from the rules that it (and all other disembarkations) really is a disembark materialization. I wouldn't insist on the letter of that particular rule unless I felt my opponent was being unsportsmanlike, but if I felt like being unsportsmanlike in return, I'd certainly insist on the letter of the rule.