lets end the mech plague

[darthrex354]

i'd like to propose a gentlemen s agreement about stopping the amount of mech that's dominating the hobby.
i think it prices people out of 40k and keeps new people from getting in. if enough people agreed to only put say tree vehicles in their lists i think we would se a whole wave of creativity
Cutting out all the transports would halve the cost of armies, and it might send a message to GW that just because they try to pay to play us into into having to double the cost of our armies does not mean we will give in. if we send a message that we will only spend so much then maybe GW will listen and in 6th edition the effectiveness of your list will not be based on cost per model, but instead on skill at lists and strategy

[Sangre]

With all due respect, who died and made you the Emperor?

[AdamHarry]

I thought this was gonna be about using Melta weapons. I was wrong.

[darthrex354]

im not claiming i know better i just wanted to start a discussion on wether people think that the expense of mech might be hurting the game by making people feel they have to sell a kidney to ever win
also i cant afford any more tanks and i'm kinda desprate
in response to sangre's question, the golden throne was empty, all i had to do was move this nasty old corpse and plop down

[blackarmchair]

But mech is cool...people like mech. Plus it doesn't "price people out" of 40k seeing as your average transport vehicle costs about the same as your average box of troops. If people don't take those vehicles then they'll have to take more troops A) to fill out the points the vehicles would have taken up and B) because they're troops are now less resilient given that they've lost their cardboard box.

If you don't like mech there are still competative footslogger armies out there, just don't ruin it for everybody...

[TSINI]

I think if we all started using Tree vehicles then we wouldn't be in the 41st millenium. And it's probably bad for the environment - deforestation etc.

as for not playing mech, thats easy, play a normal army and have fun with it. screw winning, who's keeping score? and if you play tourneys and there is someone keeping score, spend more time making your army look cool, people respect cool looking armies and fun opponents much more than win/lose ratio's

[Lord Azaghul]

I think the beauty of 40k is that Mech IS a weakness in itself.
Take a bunch of antimech and little to no mech yourself can be very devistating.

[Duke]

True, if you want mech gone then take footsloggers, and lots of meltas. Blood angels are a great non-mech army.

[eagleboy7259]

If you don't want to mech then Orks, Demons, Blood Angels and Tyranids are all still very viable army choices. I won't damn anyone for playing mech, gameplay or hobby wise. For the most part it limits the number of models you field making games of 1500pt - 2000pt feasible within a 2 hour time slot and painting little people sucks, it gets tedious and repetitive, I'd rather paint a big old tank or big creature anyday.

[Lord Azaghul]

I know this is may open up the 'realism' can o' worms, but isn't mech more 'realistic' any way?

Mechined warfare has been king (real world here) since the invention of the tank in WW1.

I know that this game isn't a 1 to 1 ratio of real life war, but 'meching' up in game as about the same benefits to real life: protecting from all that small arms fire!

If anything I find MC's far scaries then tanks in this game! But I'm not about to ask to tone those down!

As far as gaming go, yes it does speed up things. I really like my IG platoons, but it takes FOREVER to put them away after a game, and in game it takes that much longer to move them.

[Eyespy]

Yeah, no. Pretty happy with the way things are. Thanks anyway.

[darthrex354]

wow i made a thread with 2 pages and ive been ripped a new one, huh

[fade_74]

I hate to say it....but I like my tanks. I love to shoot things with them. I love to paint them. I love to sneak up to my game room in the middle of the night and drive them around on my game table....with sound effects.

In all fairness....Tanks are why I play guard.

But....there is a time when they can be taken to far. When I am playing with friends...I try to limit myself on armor. They just don't have the antitank stuff to deal with them. So....1 to 3 tanks/artillery/fast attack and thats it for me. Sentinels and chimeras don't count lol.

[DarkLink]

I love Land Raiders. I also love Storm Ravens, and hope that I'll get them in the new GK codex (ok, so I know we will).

[Majorcrash]

With all due respect, who died and made you the Emperor?

Hey I wanna be Emperor!!!!!!!!!!!!

[darthrex354]

thank you that post is already taken

[Hellfire]

and if you play tourneys and there is someone keeping score, spend more time making your army look cool, people respect cool looking armies and fun opponents much more than win/lose ratio's

amen

[Hugz4Genestealers]

And really, if whatever you've got against tanks is that big a deal, you can just come over and join the hive mind... all the cool kids are doing it.

[DarkLink]

Thing is, tanks just make sense. Rhinos and Chimeras and the like are just so good in terms of what they can bring to your army. Speed, flexibility, mobile cover.

I do think that baseline vehicles should probably be a bit more expensive. Last edition, vehicles were more expensive, and more fragile. GW cut their costs, and 5th ed makes vehicles much tougher. One or the other probably would have been enough to make vehicles a good, but not necessary choice. But we have both, meaning that vehicles are no brainers most of the time.

[eagleboy7259]

And really, if whatever you've got against tanks is that big a deal, you can just come over and join the hive mind... all the cool kids are doing it.

Props to you if you field a fully painted horde army too! I've never seen a nid army fully painted in person before

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Uhh... paint? That's that funny colored stuff that you get all over your clothes and the floor when you're redoing the walls, right? I try to stay away from that stuff. Fumes make my head feel all funny...

[Denzark]

Respectfully, no. 40K has a lot of paper scissors stone, and Mech is one side - some of the Scout moving, flamestorming, DS LR, Blood Angels, are only manageable if you can keep them at arms length and kill enough before they get into hth.

Secondly - you mentioned wanting 40K to be about 'list design and strategy not who cna afford the most.'

Hang on a sec - list design? I don't want to lose to a crap player just because he is good at min-maxing his codex and does some retro, Goatboy stylee spam. So this contradicts with your idea of some 'gentlemanly' action to redress the balance - gentlemen don't win by list design.

Lastly I took the time to ask the Commissar of my armoured company, sitting in the turret of his Demolisher, about this issue. He told me it is his sacred duty to crush vermin by what ever means necessary and if that means massed armour then they don't get a say in the matter. He also stated that if xenos weren't intended to be crushed beneath our tanks, they wouldn't have heads that fit so nicely in the little gaps between the floor and the treads.

[Melissia]

I hardly consider it a plague...

[PedroKantor]

I hate to say it....but I like my tanks. I love to shoot things with them. I love to paint them. I love to sneak up to my game room in the middle of the night and drive them around on my game table....with sound effects.

damn.. Im glad Im not the only one who does that... it actually drives my dogs crazy as I chase them around with tanks shooting battle cannons at em... :D

[Melissia]

I don't go that far, but I do love the look of a formation of tanks and infantry.

[Lord Azaghul]

damn.. Im glad Im not the only one who does that... it actually drives my dogs crazy as I chase them around with tanks shooting battle cannons at em... :D

Off topic:

When I first got my cats a friend and I were playing fantasy, and this is day 1 with the new pets,
I had some Ogres in my Dwarves army, one of the kittens leaps off the chairs and tackels one off my Ogres! I laughingly yelled "you can't do that it causes 'fear'" and my friend replyed 'but clearly the cat causes 'terror'''

Back OT: I do like to get my painted IG out on occation, vehicles and all, and place them in a nice formation. Its so pretty.

[Melissia]

I once had my nightstand cleared off and put a mock battle with Guard against Orks on it, just put the Orks in a rampant mob charging forward, while the Guard were in neat double ranks with lasguns trained. It was pretty cool.

A pity my nightstand was needed for space. I have too much junk.

[JonnyRoxtar]

As a Salamander and Dark Eldar player Id like to see more tanks tbh.

[DarkLink]

I will admit, no tanks would make armies easier to paint. I'm much, much better about painting minis than tanks. It's a wonder any of my tanks are painted at all:rolleyes:.

[Fizzics]

Well, he was talking about how the real world dollar cost of tanks is hurting the hobby.

While, I won't agree that it is just or only tanks. I think the general cost of the hobby is too great. 8 dollars for 5 plastic guardsmen is almost two dollars a dude. IMO that is just way more money than I think should be spent on all of this.

Tanks hurt because they are seen as "required". In todays gaming scene you need to have a mechanized army to do decently. And that sucks, because now you are required to buy that 60 dollars land raider.

The cost over all is too high... and it is only getting more so. Which is stupid.

[Melissia]

I will admit, no tanks would make armies easier to paint. I'm much, much better about painting minis than tanks. It's a wonder any of my tanks are painted at all:rolleyes:.

No tanks in an Ork list... do you REALLY think that'd be easier to paint? Unless it's like... a nob biker list, but that's kinda boring and overdone. And let's not get into no tanks in a Guard list... or in a Sisters list...


... screw it. Tanks make armies EASIER to paint. It's easier to paint a tank than a squad. Easier to paint a transport and a squad than two squads.

[DarkLink]

No tanks in an Ork list...

Ok, maybe not then.

In general, though, vehicles are cheap enough that they don't drop your infantry model count a whole lot. The difference between a non-mech and a mech Marine army isn't that big, except one has a bunch of Rhinos in it.

Personally, I just don't ever seem around to painting vehicles. I paint all my mini's just fine, but not the tanks:rolleyes:.

[Melissia]

I prefer painting tanks because it means I don't have to paint flesh. Painting skin-- especially faces-- is really annoying.

[DarkLink]

Ah, yes. The bane of some armies.

Yeah, I'm glad GKs are smart enough to wear helmets all the time. All you need is a bit of a glow-y eye effect, and you're good.

[Lord Azaghul]

From the $$ stand point, that not exactly true.
IG: transport cost more $ per point then a 10man squad
SM: Squad is the better $ buy.
Tanks: IG tanks are about 50$ a piece now, average points cost: 165.
3x10 man w/flamer 165pts squads; 75$
The tanks are slightly cheaper per points
SM Tanks: the squad is the cheaper point v $$ buy.

Landraiders: don't buy 'em, they aren't really a strength anyway.:D

[Javin]

My fully painted ork army has 196 orks. Not one vehicle.

[trjames]

Ah, yes. The bane of some armies.

Yeah, I'm glad GKs are smart enough to wear helmets all the time. All you need is a bit of a glow-y eye effect, and you're good.

I don't even bother with that on my GKs. I just let the wash fill in the eyes, and call it done.