Living Battering Ram - Carnifex question

[Spartan]

Hi all,

I hope this question hasn`t been asked before. Searched but didn`t find it anyway. Maybe it`s such a n00b question that no-one have thought about it, but here goes:

How does Living Battering Ram which gives a carnifex +2 initiative work along crushing claws?

1. Crushing claws gives +D3 attacks but makes the Tyranid hit at initiative 1 on all attacks.
2. The +D3 attacks are resolved at initiative 1, the rest at 3.

Reason for asking: I understand the BRB like all attacks are resolved at initiative 1, however, Old One Eye has crushing claws and Living Battering Ram special ability. Strange to give him that if it wasn`t supposed to work according to alternative 2.

Did any of this make sense?

I await your response ladies and gents.


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Wipe them out, all of them!

[Nabterayl]

Alternative 3: Old One Eye has two special CCWs (a set of crushing claws and a set of scything talons), and must choose which to use per page 42 of the main rulebook.

[synack]

Actualy, crushing claws gives him an EXTRA +D3 attacks IIRC. Those extra attacks are done at I1. His normal attacks are done at his normal initative.

[Spartan]

I don`t think option 3 is valid here. The Fex can have two sets of scything talons which gives it re-rolls to hit on all attacks, vs one set that gives re-rolls on 1s. This would not be possible if they were to be counted as 2 special weapons. Would not make any sense either to have two sets and being forced to choose as they can`t lose weapons like vehicles.

Likewise, a Hive Tyrant with lash whip and bonesword in addition to scything talons still get all the benefits of these weapons on all attacks. It`s their upgrades. Nids don`t get extra attacks for multiple weapons which is the restriction on this, see page 33 in Codex Nids.

Besides, scything talons can be counted as the Fex`s "normal" weapon as it is default.

[AbusePuppy]

Strange to give him that if it wasn`t supposed to work according to alternative 2.

Not strange, unfortunately, just extremely poorly written rules. Crushing claws are worded exactly the same way that Power Fists are- "Always strikes at Initiative 1." That means exactly what it says. You can have all the modifiers you want, but you still strike at I1.

[Spartan]

So, are the D3 extra attacks solved at I1 or are all attacks solved at I1? Sorry for not getting it :(

[JakeNelson]

All attacks, it's exactly the same as a power fist.

Living Battering Ram only has any effect for Carnifexes with Crushing Claws when they take an Initiative test, like when you roll to see if they Sweeping Advance.

[Tynskel]

All attacks, it's exactly the same as a power fist.

Living Battering Ram only has any effect for Carnifexes with Crushing Claws when they take an Initiative test, like when you roll to see if they Sweeping Advance.

Sweeping advance is not an Initiative test and is based on unmodified Initiative p.40.

A better example would be Acid Blood-- Old One Eye charges a Pyrovore and deals a wound (instant killing it) and has to take an initiative test. Instead of the test based on Initiative 1 (requiring a 1 to pass) the test would be based on Initiative 4 (requiring a 4 or lower to pass) because of 'Living Battering Ram'.

[Spartan]

Thanks for helping out guys! :)

[AdamHarry]

Sweeping advance is not an Initiative test and is based on unmodified Initiative p.40.

A better example would be Acid Blood-- Old One Eye charges a Pyrovore and deals a wound (instant killing it) and has to take an initiative test. Instead of the test based on Initiative 1 (requiring a 1 to pass) the test would be based on Initiative 4 (requiring a 4 or lower to pass) because of 'Living Battering Ram'.

The Carnifex has a base initiative of 1. Living Battering Ram is only +2, so it's initiative 3, so he fails the acid blood on 4+. You might be thinking of JotWW where monstrous creatures get a +1 to the roll for being so big.

Also, Crushing claws says "...gains an extra d3 Attacks in close combat (rolled at the beginning of each round of combat) but strikes at initiative 1, regardless of any modifiers." So I'm failing to see the confusion. You get more attacks, but strike at initiative 1.

[Tynskel]

The Carnifex has a base initiative of 1. Living Battering Ram is only +2, so it's initiative 3, so he fails the acid blood on 4+. You might be thinking of JotWW where monstrous creatures get a +1 to the roll for being so big.

Also, Crushing claws says "...gains an extra d3 Attacks in close combat (rolled at the beginning of each round of combat) but strikes at initiative 1, regardless of any modifiers." So I'm failing to see the confusion. You get more attacks, but strike at initiative 1.

My bad, I was thinking about Adrenal Sacs + Living Battering Ram. Get to I4 that way.
I always equip them with the Adrenal Sacs, and forgot!

[AdamHarry]

Ahh Good point! I wouldn't put Adrenal Glands on a Carnifex with Crushing claws, but on a regular fex I think it's a possibility. Cause str 10 at initiative 4 on the charge seems pretty solid to me!