tactical squads

[bad moon on afull moon]

having a bit of a think on this, what do you think is the best way to equip tactical squads for
1) anti-infantry(horde armies)
2) anit-tank( bleeding mech armies)
3)balanced
bare in mind that they have no transports as they sit back on objectives or in cover, while the sternguard go forth.

so anyway, what are your thoughts?

[Folkert0]

Balanced, I equip my Tactical squads with plasmagun, Missile launcher and meltabombs for the sergeant, only a 185 pts and can deal with MEQ, GEQ (bolters, I always have my sergeant keep his bolter, so that makes 8) light Mech and Monstrous Creatures,

Being able to take out an tank in assault is handy, and I never waste my shots at a target, cause every target is viable (short of a landraider that is)

just my $0,02

Folkert

[The AKH]

1) Flamer/Heavy Bolter
2) Meltagun/Multi-Melta
3) Flamer/Missile Launcher

The Missile Launcher also makes a quality AT weapon - but for dedicated tank-hunting, the Multimelta has the edge.

[bad moon on afull moon]

thanks, folkert0 that sounds promising

[Folkert0]

thanks, folkert0 that sounds promising

no problem mate. I did read your post wrong though :p

I thought you asked what was best, so my bad

1) anti-horde, for me is probably just a missile launcher, but that's because I want to keep that flexibility and because I'm not sold on flamers when you lack a transport, besides a bolter can start firing away from 24" and it's only 170 pts so cheap besides, if you have the points buy a combi-flamer when you get in a tight spot.
2) hard, because when not using a transport, meltaguns wont be very useful as you have to get within 12" and preferably 6". So i'd say Lascannon and Plasmagun, I know it's expensive, 190 pts, but it has range and even S: 7 will hurt tanks. with left over points buy the sergeant meltabombs.
3) Already told you what I prefer for this one :)

even more $0.02 :p:D

[bad moon on afull moon]

after looking at all the combinations i think ill either go with plasmagun, plasmacannon, powerfist, melta bombs or flamer, missile launcher, powerfist, meltabombs, i think the gets hot risk is worth it for str7 ap2 though it leaves me a bit weaker on the AT so maybe plasmagun, missile launcher hhmmm

[Sir Biscuit]

Honestly, it depends more on what I want them to do during the battle than what specific enemy type I am trying to kill.

No matter what you do, you should ALWAYS have a transport. I don't know why no one else has mentioned it, but it's pretty much a requirement for building an effective list. Transports are cheap, they effectively double your mobility, and they provide an extra layer of protection as well as mobile walls for you to control the battlefield with.

My Tac Builds:
1.) Forward assault: Meltagun, Powerfist, Multi-Melta, Rhino. You need the meltagun so you can pop open transports and assault whats inside. Since you are always going to be moving the squad, you'll never really get to fire your heavy weapon, I bring a multi-melta because it's free and nice for death-or-glory when you get tanked shocked.
2.) Fire Support: Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Rhino. This is your short-range shooty option. Meltagun is nice for tank busting, and the Plasma Cannon is the best option for dealing with infantry. (Especially heavy infantry.) It's there to shoot hings from the Rhino and only gets out to assault easy targets. I love this squad for objective-holding.
3.) Tag-Team: Meltagun, Powerfist, Plasma Cannon, Razorback (Usually upgraded to Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma Gun). This is one of my favorites. One team with the Plasma Cannon, the others in the Razorback moving forward. This is a great defensive build, if you know the enemy is coming at you, this is the one to take. The shooting squad can sit in cover, ideally on an objective. The forward squad hurls itself into units that have been whittled down by shooting, or at worst acts as a speed bump. The razorback is excellent fire support and a nice mobile wall for when you need it.

You'll notice two things right away, I'm certain.
First, I never take flamers. Honestly, they are just not worth it. It's much better to be able to blow up tanks or put wounds on monstrous creatures than kill a few more guys before assault. In addition, anything that you would effectively be shooting with a flamer you can shoot to death anyway. Meltagun for 5 points is a steal.

I don't take rocket launchers either. because I don't think they're particularly good at anti-infantry or at anti-tank. Flexible, sure, but not terribly effective. A plasma cannon for five more pointsis a much better option. It loses one strength, so it's not great against tanks (but can still damage them in a pinch) but it is MUCH better at anti-horde and especially anti-heavy-infantry. Honestly, if you're shooting at a tank, you tend to lose out on nine guys worth of fire. Tac squads should be killing infantry, and tank-busting should be left to the other units in your list.

[codiddy]

Honestly, if you're shooting at a tank, you tend to lose out on nine guys worth of fire. Tac squads should be killing infantry, and tank-busting should be left to the other units in your list.


Quoted for truth my friend. You might have just convinced me to swap out some Missile Launchers for Plasma cannons

[Paradox]

A couple of "wider picture" questions.

What size games are you playing? This can change the focus of whether you should worry about units for very specific roles or units with more flexibility.

Who do you play? If your anyone like myself, you might want to come up with a list that you have as a "try and take anyone on" list, but still having some idea of your common opponents does shape a list and the requirements for it in a certain direction. What armies do you face?

[bad moon on afull moon]

i usually play 1500-2000pt games, and yes i do go for 'try and take anyone' lists because i play a big mix of opponents of different skill levels and armies

[DarkLink]

First, I never take flamers. Honestly, they are just not worth it. It's much better to be able to blow up tanks or put wounds on monstrous creatures than kill a few more guys before assault.

Same here. Used to take Incinerators all the time. Then I found that I didn't shoot them often, in order to guarantee the charge. Now I just use storm bolters.

[Commissar Lewis]

Now, I'm a Guard man, but I also have some Space Marines, so here's my 2 cents.

Anti Infantry - Heavy Bolters usually are good for numerous medium to light infantry, from Tau to Orkz. For the special weapon, I'd say flamers if you intend to either have enemies close in or close in yourself. If all else fails can't go wrong with a plasma gun or melta gun.

Anti Tank - now, I may get criticized for this, but I've always been a proponent for the lascannon. Expensive, yes, but they have worked well for me in the past. Multimelta and meltas are also a good choice, albeit short ranged.

Balanced - missile launchers are a good balanced option. They don't excel at any one thing, sure, but they are flexible. For the special, can't go wrong with plasma or melta.

[DarkLink]

Anti Tank - now, I may get criticized for this, but I've always been a proponent for the lascannon. Expensive, yes, but they have worked well for me in the past. Multimelta and meltas are also a good choice, albeit short ranged.


I take nothing but Godhammer Land Raiders, simply for the lascannons.

I do find, however, that some melta is vital. 2-3 squads capable of taking out a land raider, or (almost) guaranteeing the destruction of vehicles that do make it to your side of the board, is critical.

[Kirsten]

having a bit of a think on this, what do you think is the best way to equip tactical squads for
1) anti-infantry(horde armies)
2) anit-tank( bleeding mech armies)
3)balanced


if you're shooting at a tank, you tend to lose out on nine guys worth of fire. Tac squads should be killing infantry, and tank-busting should be left to the other units in your list.

I couldn't agree more, I use my tactical squads for infantry hunting. I really hate wasting nine people's shooting, same goes for my guard army. Bolters are the way forward, they are great weapons, make the most of them. I will typically take a sergeant with a combi weapon (either flamer or melta, depending on opponent) and a multi melta. I like the multi melta because a) it is free, b) it has the same range as the bolters, and c) it can kill pretty much anything. People always class it as an anti tank weapon, but it works just as well on infantry. It also means that if there are no other targets available, the squad can have a crack at a tank. Vehicle hunting is a last resort though if no infantry present themselves. I leave tank hunting to dedicated units, annihilators, land speeders, attack bikes and the like. I don't like plasma weapons, not keen on anything which might kill my own troops. The sergeant combi weapon I love because typically I find a special weapon would only be useful once or twice anyway, getting into flamer range will typically result in an assault one way or the other, so a one shot weapon isn't really a drawback, and adds an extra edge without costing valuable bolters.

[Paradox]

Agree with Kirsten's points.

Though I'd point out that missile launchers also make a good free weapon as "back-up" as well as they have a strength which would be considered the upper point of medium (you've got some other dedicated tank hunters in the army), as well as range (which means you can still shoot 24 with the bolters obviously). Provides some very good flexibility.

I personally do take special weapons as well as I find they are worthwhile force multipliers, but 'free' flamers ar more useful when playing against infantry daemonic armies :)

That being said, bolter ARE very good base weapons, so rightly pointed out. I would still probably always put some special weapon in in the tactical squad, but these special weapons do at times find themselves to be one of the earlier casualties if they aren't so important for the game (I tend to write 'take on all' generic lists, so some redundancy is to be expected)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I decided to "Veto" Plasma weaponry as I keep getting my guys killed by it, a sure sign that I should never use it.... Unless it is on a Tank of course....

[Kirsten]

Agree with Kirsten's points.

Though I'd point out that missile launchers also make a good free weapon as "back-up"

Missile launchers are excellent, I really like them, but in my lists the missile launcher models are typically a devastator squad, so they can combine 4 frag or krak shots together and keep a really multi purpose long range heavy support option.

[BlackKnight15624]

I pack the standard Flamer/Missile Launcher combo. I usually combat squad my marines, so the I put the flamer/PF sergeant into one and the ML in the other. Works well.