IG Special Weapon Squads Question.

[Force21]

Greetings all.


I have some points that I can play with in one of my lists & I am not quite sure if I should take a squad or not...


I have 10 Flamer templates & 10 Grenade launchers in my list...
..not planning to use small blast but if it is needed..


The question is....Plasma or Meltaguns?


I will explain my list to see what would be best...


btw they will be in a Chimera.


6 Lascannons, 3 Autocannons, 1 Hydra, 2 Leman Russ Tanks, 3 Mortars, 2 Eviscerators, Melta Bombs on my Sergeants...


or just stick with 5 Ratlings...?

which is ok but only five makes it hard to pin down enemy units...



Thanks in advance.

[Sandman2663]

I don't think ratlings are worth the points.
If IG is platoon then plasma guns, they get the points efficiency ratio.
If IG is Vet then Melta, they use the BS...

[Melissia]

Plasma is best used in company command squads and veterans.

BS4 helps mitigate the cost of plasmaguns. On BS3 models, grenades and flamers are best.

[Sandman2663]

I disagree with the use of plasma on Vets, they are more costly than infantry and usually up in front - Meltas are ideal.
The infantry plasma drive by is very effective. Storm Troopers are just as expendable as Infantry...
Vets shouldn't be used as suicide squads blowing themselves up should they Melissia???
"And if they're all dead, they can't be in future conflicts, or even later in the battle." :p

[Melissia]

Infantry plasmaguns are too expensive for a GEQ model. BS4 stands a better chance of both shots hitting than BS3. There's always a risk of plasma overheating, but it's better to risk it when you have a good chance to hit, and on models with a better armor save.

[Force21]

Hmm...


this is a question just a bit off topic...

when roll my save from Get's Hot can I just remove a regular Guardsmen?

or for some reason a Guardsmen just does not want to pick up the now unowned Plasmagun laying on the ground?

sorry for the dumb question I am trying to find my rulebook...


this my help me find out which weapon to take...

[AbusePuppy]

Gets Hot! affects the model carrying the weapon. Just as with Dangerous Terrain tests, you cannot choose to remove a different model as a casualty instead.

[Iceman]

My experience is that since plasmaguns get two shots each time they fire that the guy carrying it ends up getting killed within a couple of turns. I stopped passing out plasmaguns to my veterans (including the ones on the CCS) and now just give them meltaguns. The one inch difference in scatter from BS4 vs BS3 doesn't make a practical difference and I would rather risk a regular guardsman than a veteran. In the 4th edition you could take the casualty from someone else in the squad but now you not only lose the guardsman but also the weapon.

On the other hand, if you have upgraded the veteran to carapace armor than it may be worth it. More so if they are part of a CCS with a medic.

[Melissia]

I stopped passing out plasmaguns to my veterans (including the ones on the CCS) and now just give them meltaguns. The one inch difference in scatter from BS4 vs BS3


... um, what?

Only blasts scatter... you didn't mention grenade launchers at all...

[plasticaddict]

Meltas or Plasma based on their role in your army. Meltas are up close and personal weapons that you can follow up with an assault. Plasma guns are good for laying down cover fire at range and protecting high value units/objectives.

[Force21]

ahhh...thanks.


that helps.


I am going to go with Meltaguns...

for this list at least...


there is always next time...;)

[faolan]

Plasma guns don't scatter, they're hit or miss.

Plasma cannons do, as they're blast.

Recap: Guard infantry plasma doesn't scatter, Guard tank plas does.

As for meltas, only the Cannon version scatters, which is attached to a vehicle.

[AbusePuppy]

I think the "scatter" reference was aimed at the folks suggesting grenade launchers or other blast weapons to compensate for BS3 on Guardsmen. This is a good plan in many cases, but BS4 does make a meaningful difference on scatter, just not as much as it does with roll-to-hit shooting.

[Hakuro]

To answer you Force21, the model that suffers from the Gets Hot! rule must be removed after it takes a wound.

However, i would like to build on your concept of using Special Weapon squads to carry Meltaguns / Plasmaguns, as i feel this could use some more elaboration.

Special Weapon Squads have their downsides despite the fact that they offer a suitable, cheap alternative to carry additional special weapons. 1. They come in units of 6 that are easily wiped off by even decent sized and strengthed weapon templates. 2. The downside of carrying Meltaguns and Plasmaguns in SWQs are linked to the first downside, not only do you lose a kill point (in kill point games) but you lose the additional special weapons as well, and note you ARE paying a premium for low AP and high strength weapons.

My advice, if you truly are dead set on using SWQs, using them in conjunction with orders poses the highest yield and efficiency from the unit itself. Therefore, suitable weapons for SWQs are probably sniper rifles, the potential of wounding even MCs on 4+ yields greater returns then dedicating them to get up close with shorter ranged meltaguns and plasmaguns. And with the 'Bring it Down!' order, you could perhaps get a wound off an MC without wasting a larger unit's opportunity of shooting that MC, and dedicating that shooting to a different unit in a single turn.

The IG lets you play with the potential of combined units. Use it to your advantage.

[Iceman]

Melissia, I didn't mention grenade launchers because I understood the discussion to be a choice between meltaguns and plasmaguns. I actually like grenade launchers and pass them out as my special weapon choice to my regular guardsmen.

EDIT: Oops, I just realized thanks to the posts that the plasmagun is not a blast weapon so the whole scatter thing doesn't apply. That means that there is a big difference between BS4 and BS3. However, now that I know that, I feel even more strongly that a meltagun is a better choice. It costs fewer points and can kill even better than plasma although it has a shorter range. Also for only ten points I can upgrade two of my guys to an autocannon and get two very long range shots (albeit it without the AP2) without having to worry about killing myself.

[Melissia]

Maybe, but the plasmagun gets to kill two marines per round instead of just one. Not like the Guard lacks anti-tank.

[Eyespy]

...

or for some reason a Guardsmen just does not want to pick up the now unowned Plasmagun laying on the ground?



That unowned Plasmagun is laying on the ground glowing white next to the steaming corpse of the guardsmans buddy. No way is he picking it up untill it's machine spirit has been mollified with the appropriate rituals.

[Melissia]

Which often involve lots of water. That plasmagun's machine spirit must be parched.

[Force21]

To answer you Force21, the model that suffers from the Gets Hot! rule must be removed after it takes a wound.

However, i would like to build on your concept of using Special Weapon squads to carry Meltaguns / Plasmaguns, as i feel this could use some more elaboration.

Special Weapon Squads have their downsides despite the fact that they offer a suitable, cheap alternative to carry additional special weapons. 1. They come in units of 6 that are easily wiped off by even decent sized and strengthed weapon templates. 2. The downside of carrying Meltaguns and Plasmaguns in SWQs are linked to the first downside, not only do you lose a kill point (in kill point games) but you lose the additional special weapons as well, and note you ARE paying a premium for low AP and high strength weapons.

My advice, if you truly are dead set on using SWQs, using them in conjunction with orders poses the highest yield and efficiency from the unit itself. Therefore, suitable weapons for SWQs are probably sniper rifles, the potential of wounding even MCs on 4+ yields greater returns then dedicating them to get up close with shorter ranged meltaguns and plasmaguns. And with the 'Bring it Down!' order, you could perhaps get a wound off an MC without wasting a larger unit's opportunity of shooting that MC, and dedicating that shooting to a different unit in a single turn.

The IG lets you play with the potential of combined units. Use it to your advantage.


Yeah I used 2 special weapon squads with Cadian snipers back in 4th ed. but now... for 50 points you can get five BS 4 Ratlings that can have a 3+ cover save...