What fluff shakeups would you like to see?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

With rumours of a fluff shakeup/advancement for 40k happening in the future I'm just curious what kind timeline advancements people would like to see? Do you want to see something radical or something more subtle?

(predictably) I'd love to see the proper introduction of enslavers as a new ultra-lovecraft themed faction and a new great threat with a second great enslaver plague thrust upon the galaxy with all the races including chaos fighting them. I'd give the enslavers a pantheon of lovecraftian deities that live in the warp and are older than the chaos gods. It's awesome in my head, at least :P

[CoffeeGrunt]

Tau crack proper FTL travel, become an actual presence in areas other than a tiny corner of the galaxy.

[Path Walker]

Female Space Marines.

[Mr Mystery]

13th Black Crusade breaks out the Eye, but ultimately fails well short of its goal.

Abaddon snuffs it, as do various and sundry SC's. Imperium largely victorious, and the uniting factor of Chaos is gone - however due to the intensity, Chaos Warbands are now rife within The Imperium, and resources are too thinly stretched to have any kind of cohesive clear up.

[0rph3u5]

The so-called "Light of Astronomicon" does not originate at "Holy" Terra at all. The Astronomicon actually in nothing but a psycic black hole which sucks in non-localized psionic energy in the Warp, in effect sucking dry the galaxy of the psionic energy required for life to continue existing. The effect of the "the Light" is just how the condensed stream into the Astronomicon looks like from the outside. The daily psyker sacrifice is just to protect the Imperial Institutions from being destroyed by sitting right at the Astronomicon, similar to how Dark Eldar let others suffer to not be drained by She-who-thrists.

[Cutter]

With rumours of a fluff shakeup/advancement for 40k happening in the future I'm just curious what kind timeline advancements people would like to see? Do you want to see something radical or something more subtle?

Actual death or resurrection of the Emperor, he's been on the 'golden throne' for 30 years, time to sh*t or get off the pot.


(predictably) I'd love to see the proper introduction of enslavers as a new ultra-lovecraft themed faction and a new great threat with a second great enslaver plague thrust upon the galaxy with all the races including chaos fighting them. I'd give the enslavers a pantheon of lovecraftian deities that live in the warp and are older than the chaos gods. It's awesome in my head, at least :P

Can you expand on what 'ultra-lovecraft' means to you? Between the tyranids and chaos, 40k has all the HPL I need.

[grimmas]

Abaddon succeeds in destroying the pylons on Cadia. The Eye of Terror expands and the daemonic legions and the traitor legionnaires storm Terra effectively "winning" the Long War. However the Emperor is a perpetual who's rebirth is being stopped by the Golden Throne (which it is). The Traitor's victory causes the Emperor's rebirth. The destruction of the Astronomicon causes the dissolution of the Imperium. The Ultramarines reform Imperium Secondus. The expansion of the EoT ejects the missing Primarchs who reunite with their Chapters/Legions setting up their own Empires amidst the ruins of the Imperium. The Emperor desperately tries to reunite his Realm but due to 10000 years of devolution finds it a nigh on impossible.

The Alien races take the opportunity of the power vacuum to vastly increase their domains. Apart form the Eldar who just sit around telling everyone they knew this was going to happen without actually having anything to do with anything or be befitting in any way.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Actual death or resurrection of the Emperor, he's been on the 'golden throne' for 30 years, time to sh*t or get off the pot.



Can you expand on what 'ultra-lovecraft' means to you? Between the tyranids and chaos, 40k has all the HPL I need.

cosmic horror aliens. as in, alieny aliens ike polyps, yithians, elder things and shoggoths.

nids are just generic starship trooper bugs/giger xenomrphs to me and chaos is just satanic/daemon stuff or armoured heavy metal art, dont see anything lovecraftian visually speaking at all myself. Perhaps I should of used the term cosmic horror as people always think of utter tripe like cthulhu and deep ones when the term lovecraftian is used. Like practically every other wargames, 40k has a crap selection of unimaginagive aliens that dont look alien at all. Enslavers would fix that dramatically. I'd settle for Hrud too though, as long as they werent based on the space skaven or swamp creature deisgns of yore.

[Cutter]

cosmic horror aliens. as in, alieny aliens ike polyps, yithians, elder things and shoggoths.

nids are just generic starship trooper bugs/giger xenomrphs to me and chaos is just satanic/daemon stuff or armoured heavy metal art, dont see anything lovecraftian visually speaking at all myself. Perhaps I should of used the term cosmic horror as people always think of utter tripe like cthulhu and deep ones when the term lovecraftian is used. Like practically every other wargames, 40k has a crap selection of unimaginagive aliens that dont look alien at all. Enslavers would fix that dramatically. I'd settle for Hrud too though, as long as they werent based on the space skaven or swamp creature deisgns of yore.

Oh ok, you're working from an almost completely visual standpoint.

While we can agree on the pop culture origins of elements like the stealers, it's the otherness of the Great Devourer that appeals to me. The hive fleets don't know who we are, may not be capable of registering us as individuals in any meaningful way. Reminds me of Azathoth.

Chaos has cults, cultists and lots of things man shouldn't worship but does for reasons. The gods themselves may be a bit 2 dimensional but you know, 40k, for kids.

Maybe cosmic horror would be a better if more vague label for what you're going for.

If you think Cthulhu and Deep Ones are 'utter tripe', Howard may not be your huckleberry.

[Morgrim]

There is a short section of artificially crafted Webway under the Golden Throne, stretching back to a pair of ornate golden doors. The defences were shattered accidentally by Magnus allowing that section to be overrun with daemons.

There is a segment of Webway that budded from Commoragh, deep beneath the Dark City, where there are a pair of ornate blackened doors sealing off a section of Webway that is overrun with daemons.

Given the plan of the Emperor was to access everywhere via the Webway, and since Commoragh is the node of the Webway that is connected to far flung places across the entire galaxy (seriously, the official map of Webway portals has about 50 labels with 'Commoragh' on it), I want these these two to be linked. The section of human-made Webway has golden doors at one end, obsidian doors at the other, a very large mass of daemons in the middle, and the two factions have to have the universe's most awkward anti-custody talk about how to get rid of the bit in between without flooding their respective strongholds with chaos gribblies.

There's already mentions in the fluff that Dark Eldar representatives have been contacted by the Mechanium to do with the Golden Throne failing, and this would be excellent justification.

[Charon]

The gate of Khaine is kinda the central plot for Malys and Vect as both are supported by Harlequins and both (including their colorful benefactors) suspect each other to plan opening up the gate and destroy Commoragh. Malys thinks Vect has gone crazy and will rather destroy the dark city than lose control and Vect thinks Malys have gone so mad about him that she does not care about the city if she can just somehow destroy him.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Speaking of Malys and Vect, I wouldn't mind Malys killing Vect off and assuming the ruler of Commoragh.

[Charon]

Why not... just remove more DE characters... we do have so many after all.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'd add in new female characters...

[Morgrim]

I wouldn't want to kill off Vect, he has that many backup plans that any comprehensive defeat in the space of one book is going to be disappointing. Now, Vect getting deposed and fleeing somewhere to plan his triumphant return could be very interesting. He and Malys had a falling out while she was his lover, so he's apparently got a weakness for powerful competent lovers... have someone allied with Malys trying to exploit him that way?

(I'd also like to see Malys pull something of the same level of epicness as Vect's "I kidnapped several battle barges full of Salamanders" as a the overt part of the plan, because that was wonderful.)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

hehe I just want to see a female character come out on top/win, rarely seeems to happen in the backround, infact most characters generally are male anyway which is a bit boring.

[Morgrim]

hehe I just want to see a female character come out on top/win, rarely seeems to happen in the backround, infact most characters generally are male anyway which is a bit boring.

Agreed. Does not help that Space Marines are a boys only club (despite being eunuchs) and the default heroes.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Agreed. Does not help that Space Marines are a boys only club (despite being eunuchs) and the default heroes.

It wouldn't be too bad if sisters of battle actually had decent support to counter that somewhat -_- I'm not opposed to female marines either though, but I also don't see the fluff as something sacred as a lot of people seem to.

[Cutter]

Agreed. Does not help that Space Marines are a boys only club (despite being eunuchs) and the default heroes.

Really? Did I blink when they added bilateral orchiectomy to the list of surgical procedures?

[grimmas]

Functionally, they still have the bits but they don't work.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

would giving them working bits be a "fluff shakeup" then? lol

[grimmas]

It certainly would. Grimnar being late for an invasion because he had to take the kids swimming may not help the narative though 😊

[Haighus]

I thought the functionality of Marine reproductive systems was never actually clarified, but that they did have basically no libido, so even if they were functional, it wouldn't matter because there would be no desire to use them.

It is likely that Marines are not fertile based on the potent cocktail of extra hormones they kick out, but I didn't think there was any fluff actually stating that Marines were infertile. If someone could give me a source for such info if it exists that would be great though :)

[Mr Mystery]

Lukas The Trickster was/is known for bedding many maidens - and it's not clear if that was pre or post Astartes.

Additionally, Space Wolves (at one point, possibly pre-2nd Ed) had hereditary suits of Power Armour.

I think.

[grimmas]

No instance of Soace Marines ever having children.

Also Space Marine creation is surgical if they could reproduce (and they can't) the children would be normal humans. It has been noted that lineage is sometimes traced via the geneseed. Wargear is handed onto new generations of Marines though but not by conventional hereditary concepts.

I think the lack of reproductive capabilities is mentioned in one of the HH books as one of the drawback of becoming Transhuman. I would have to look back though and there's been a few.

[Haighus]

Oh, for sure the offspring would be human, not Astartes.

Hmm, a lack of examples is not evidence of incapability though. Especially when considering indoctrinated soldiers utilised solely as an incredibly elite fighting force, and which can 'reproduce' effectively through other means (geneseed). Not to mention they are effectively asexual in their orientation, so combined with the indoctrination of being pure soldiers, there would be a very low likelihood of wanting to attempt reproduction anyway. Would also explain why the Space Wolves, if any, would not follow this... :p

However, the HH reference seems like a more definitive answer. Logically speaking, the hormonal soup Marines are subjected to most likely does render them infertile too. Especially when considering that it is pretty damn easy to make humans infertile by playing with their hormones- the oral contraceptive pill being a prime example. Yeah, the pill is reversible, but Marines produce their hormones constantly due to the additional organs, so something that is reversible in theory wouldn't be possible without removing the organ.

[son_of_volmer]

A black guy

[Morgrim]

Really? Did I blink when they added bilateral orchiectomy to the list of surgical procedures?

It's been a while, but I remember a bit of old fluff talking about the process of making a space marine talking about 'moving and repurposing the testosterone organs' which sounds a lot like removing the testes from the scrotum and sticking them somewhere less exposed as part of the new hormone systems. And considering the hormone cocktails taken by some modern body builders has the side effect of shrinking and rendering impotent the male reproductive organs, I'd be astounded if a Space Marine was still capable of 'traditional' copulation.

Granted, through history right into the modern day, there are strong traditions of the equivalent of all-male special forces units engaging in some interesting bonding rituals, so I would not be surprised if they replace it with something that may make some raise their eyebrows. :p

[Cutter]

'moving and repurposing the testosterone organs'

Sounds like a load of old BoLS...

[grimmas]

Oh, for sure the offspring would be human, not Astartes.

Hmm, a lack of examples is not evidence of incapability though. Especially when considering indoctrinated soldiers utilised solely as an incredibly elite fighting force, and which can 'reproduce' effectively through other means (geneseed). Not to mention they are effectively asexual in their orientation, so combined with the indoctrination of being pure soldiers, there would be a very low likelihood of wanting to attempt reproduction anyway. Would also explain why the Space Wolves, if any, would not follow this... :p

However, the HH reference seems like a more definitive answer. Logically speaking, the hormonal soup Marines are subjected to most likely does render them infertile too. Especially when considering that it is pretty damn easy to make humans infertile by playing with their hormones- the oral contraceptive pill being a prime example. Yeah, the pill is reversible, but Marines produce their hormones constantly due to the additional organs, so something that is reversible in theory wouldn't be possible without removing the organ.


It's been 10000 years I think it'd have come up 😊.

As I was told at length by a doctor after a fertility test (after my wife made him think I'd been on steroids) excess levels of testosterone wil very much make men sterile (oestrogen will do the same). Apparently men respond to hormones a bit differently in that respect.

[Cutter]

It's been 10000 years I think it'd have come up 😊.

As I was told at length by a doctor after a fertility test (after my wife made him think I'd been on steroids) excess levels of testosterone wil very much make men sterile (oestrogen will do the same). Apparently men respond to hormones a bit differently in that respect.

Hypermasculinity makes you sterile, seems ideal.

Moving on...

[Cactus]

I'd like to see something big, like the Tau, Necrons, or Ad Mech get completely wiped out.

I know that wouldn't happen due to sales and fan outrage, but I'd like to see the fluff about a key player in the universe being annihilated. Maybe Daemons destroy every holding the Tau have encroached into, perhaps the Inquisition mounts an army and turns the Necrons to dust, or the Eldar dance over and blow up Mars with scatter bikes.

[Mikhail233]

Personally I wouldn't mind if all the characters who can't die due to some magical bull**** gained a bit of mortality, like daemons become killable, not easily, maybe you need their true name but it would be nice if they were mortal, also any of the perpetuals, like if the emperor could actually die I may be slightly worried, underscore the point by offing a major character, maybe Logan Grimnar, or Ku'Gath also bring back rules for all the interesting DE characters, I want to see the fruits of Khedrukah's grand scheme
Also off Lucius the Eternal and make the Slaneesh character for CSM more interesting

[0rph3u5]

Ad Mech get completely wiped out.

"Tyger, Tyger..."

[RGilbert26]

Captain Tycho died during the Third War for Armageddon.

[Mr Mystery]

I wouldn't mind seeing a schism in the Mechanicus - perhaps relating to the re-discovery of particularly potent STC stuff. Some feel it's sanctioned, others that it needs to be buried.

There's a myriad of reasons for that sort of split, so no need to spell it out for the players, let us interpret it our own way.

[0rph3u5]

schism in the Mechanicus

"Tyger, Tyger..."

(in case you are wondering, this about Gods of Mars by Graham McNiell)