Land Speeder and Predator questions

[Sitnam]

I am planning on using both of these units, and I wondering whats some of the preferable ways to run them? For the Predator I am very interested in a LC/HB pred for the benefit of versatiliy and I am stuck between MM/HF Land Speeders or Typhoon/HB Land Speeders. Both LS variants seem versatile, however 2 long-range AT shots vs one more powerful short range shot, and one flamer shot vs 3 HB shots and two frag missile is a tough toss up. The Typhoon has the benefit of more anti-infantry firepower (since the frags are S4 they can be fired in addition to the HB IIRC) and longer range, however a MM is a much better tank buster. I am leaning towards the Typhoon, as I'd prefer volume of shots at range. I also have found Ork Rokkits (same stats as krak) good at anti-MEQ work.

Edit: For further info, I plan on using these units in a mech marine army. 2-3 HB Razorbacks,bike captain, 1-2 Bike squadrons, maybe scout bikers and LR termies.

[Sir Biscuit]

Land Speeders only have two effective variants: MM/HF, (Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer) and Typhoon. Which is better is entirely dependent on your army.

It looks to me like you're trying to run a fast assault-type army. In this case, I think you're better off with the MM/HF. They can keep pace with the forward elements of the army, and block the assaults you don't want to happen. The heavy flamers can help you deal with mobs, which would kill your mobility otherwise, and the multi-meltas are great for heavy tank busting. (I don't know how your squads are equipped, but bringing some melta is important.) In addition, they are 20 points cheaper, so that's nice.

Typhoons are better for long-range tank-busting- they really excel at popping transports early and denying your opponent mobility. This is less important if you are moving towards the enemy to assault anyway. Having your speeders up front with the ability to zoom about and block undesirable charges is better for your list than having a longer range.

For predators, I really think the only way to run them is with an autocannon, twin heavy bolter sponsons, and possibly a hunter-killer. (Known as the "dakkapred".) Cheap, durable, can damage transports and infantry, but aren't enough of a threat to get shut down turn one. The lascannon options are, honestly, much too expensive to really be worth it. A better option is to upgrade the weapons on your razorbacks and field straight dakkapreds instead, for less points than you were planning on spending on your predators.

[Sitnam]

Its actually going to be more of a mobile shooty army. The Tac squads will be full sqauds with ML/PG, with the PG team riding in the Razorbacks to take objectives and the ML's as fire support, although I am honestly toying with the idea of switching to the more expensive DA codex just for the benefit of not having to take a full 10 man squad to take special and heavy weapons. I will also have MM's in each Bike sqaudron.

Upgrading my transports is awfully expensive. For just 40 points I get a cheap weakly armored transport with a HB, but upgrading the weapons nearly double the cost. I really like Predators, as they fit into my armies fluff, but no pattern is making sense yet. A dakkapred doesnt seem as versatile, whilst a Annilhator w/ HB is more expensive and not as effective vs a variety of targets when compared to dakkapreds and laspreds.

The MM/HF LS does seem like a attractive option as it is better up close. I am kinda thinking about using both variants in two different squadrons.

[Sir Biscuit]

Let me put it this way:

3 Razorbacks with TLHB + 3 Predators with HB/TL Lascannon = 510 points
3 Razorbacks with Lascannon/TL PG + 3 Predators with HB/Autocannon = 480 points

Expensive, yes, but not as many points as what you were thinking about already doing, and nets you more ranged anti-tank and better anti-heavy-infantry.

[Sitnam]

Hmmm. But wont the extra firepower on the RB make them preferable targets over my Preds? If I'm facing a mech army I'd assume my AT would be targeted moreso then my Anti-Infantry. Ofcourse I have MM bikers, and LS. Thanks for the advice! I'm gonna hopefully magnetize everything, to help me work out what works best for me.

[eagleboy7259]

Let me put it this way:

3 Razorbacks with TLHB + 3 Predators with HB/TL Lascannon = 510 points
3 Razorbacks with Lascannon/TL PG + 3 Predators with HB/Autocannon = 480 points

Expensive, yes, but not as many points as what you were thinking about already doing, and nets you more ranged anti-tank and better anti-heavy-infantry.

When this way is optimal:
3 Razorbacks w/ Heavy Bolters + 3 Predators with Autocannon & Side Lascannons = 480pts :D

For Anti-Tank Preds the Autocannon & Side Lascannon combination is more ideal than the HB & TL Lascannon. It comes in at 10pts cheaper, it puts out 4 shots with better AP, strength and range, the still foots the bill for antitank because the autocannon and lascannon have the same range, S7 is enough to still hurt most transports and get some glances on larger things. Thats the only way I see predators now days, although I guess a 60pt AV 13 autocannon could be annoying for its points at lower levels.

Heavy Bolter Razorbacks also fit better with Tactical Squads because they target the same kinds of units for example. A good player who sees a lascannon sitting on a transport will pop it first chance.

I will second you on that for landspeeders however, Twin heavy flamers, Twin Heavy Bolters, or a single multi-melta. I personally don't like the typhoon launcher because it is so dang expensive, but I know other people have had success with it.

[Tynskel]

There is also the Hv Bolter Land Speeder

60 Points
Land Speeder
2 Hv Bolters.

They are quite nasty because they have decent range and 6 shots each.

[Sitnam]

When this way is optimal:
3 Razorbacks w/ Heavy Bolters + 3 Predators with Autocannon & Side Lascannons = 480pts :D

For Anti-Tank Preds the Autocannon & Side Lascannon combination is more ideal than the HB & TL Lascannon. It comes in at 10pts cheaper, it puts out 4 shots with better AP, strength and range, the still foots the bill for antitank because the autocannon and lascannon have the same range, S7 is enough to still hurt most transports and get some glances on larger things. Thats the only way I see predators now days, although I guess a 60pt AV 13 autocannon could be annoying for its points at lower levels.

Heavy Bolter Razorbacks also fit better with Tactical Squads because they target the same kinds of units for example. A good player who sees a lascannon sitting on a transport will pop it first chance.

I will second you on that for landspeeders however, Twin heavy flamers, Twin Heavy Bolters, or a single multi-melta. I personally don't like the typhoon launcher because it is so dang expensive, but I know other people have had success with it.

That version Pred actually seems very preferable to me , as it means stationary preds can have up to six Lascannon shots and six autocannon shots, whilst the RB's stay cheap and arent seen as much of a threat comparitively. I'd probably add a storm bolter on just because I like the advantages they bring

I personally dont mind paying more for the versatility of a typhoon, especially because it gives me effective anti-light/medium vehicle firepower, and 3 heavy bolters shots and 2 frag missiles seem like a good trade off for not ignoring cover saves.

[Sandman2663]

There is also the Hv Bolter Land Speeder

60 Points
Land Speeder
2 Hv Bolters.

They are quite nasty because they have decent range and 6 shots each.

I love this version...
9 Speeders HBx2 = 54 S5 AP4 shots at 36" = 540 points
couple this with
3 Dakka Preds = 255 points
I shred horde...

In 1850 point games, most people leave the speeders alone...

[eagleboy7259]

Yeah but you have to be smart about how you play your landspeeders. You have to have more sensible targets within the area for them to be left alone, otherwise its "Oh lookie here its a lands speeder **ork picks up rock and throws it** aww... I brokeded your toy"

[mercer]

I run two land speeders with multi meltas and heavy flamers and they work well; though they do act as suicide units and are quickly targetted. A typhoon can hang back and fire kraks, but a long range A.T weapon like a lascannon can still easily take it out.

As for a predator currently I am running autocannon, heavy bolters and a storm bolter. It has good anti infantry but I found it a bit wishy-washy about scoring kills. The reason for the storm bolter is so I have two weapons to fire when I move. Consider it's anti infantry I didn't think it reaped loads of kills. I am however thinking of taking autocannon and lascannons for anti tank, the autocannon isn't great but the lascannons will give me some long range anti tank. However I wouldn't mix a lascannon and heavy bolters as one is a anti tank weapon and the other anti infantry, they do not mesh well.

[Lord Azaghul]

Landspeeders: Well the nice thing about this kit it how easy it is switch around weapons. The typhoon easily slides in and out of the 'doors' without gluing. And once painted the HB and MM stays on the little rail. The only issue is the heavy flamer, and most people wont mind as long as you declare before the game that it is or isn't in play.

Pred: I have one of each. To be honest the Lascannon variant, though cool looking, end up being very dissapointing. Its so expensive, and lascannons just don't see effective unless they come in volumn.
The upside of the LC variant is that is will draw a good deal of fire. The dakka pred however is just so cheap that you don't mind its loss, and its a good mid-range threat.

[Grey Templar]

for Landspeeders i say the typhoon is best for several reasons over the alternatives.

1) AV10. this is why i HATE MM/HF speeders. its going to what. pop one tank(if you are lucky) or flame some orks and die.

at the range of a missilelauncher AV10 is pretty survivable and being able to fire the heavy Bolter and the frag missiles is awsome.

2) Cheap firepower. 90 pts for a heavy bolter and 2 missile launchers. thats the same cost as a devestator squad with NO WEAPONS or extra bodies. have 2 or 3 in a unit and they become a real powerhouse.

if you want a suicide multi-melta. buy a LS and give it a MM and no HF. you will likely never fire one weapon without not using the other. besides both are Main weapons and as such you can't enjoy your mobility fully.




Predator tanks

i like the Dakka pred with autocannon and HB sponsons. cheap firepower that can pop transports.

if you want lascannons go with Las sponsons and the Auto cannon turret. cheaper and can do the same basic job.