what you guys think chaos should have in its next codex

[zealotic]

hey guys, I want to know what you guys think that chaos should get in its next codex

my opinions:
1)cult troops (berzerkers, noise boyz, etc.) should be elites

2)berzerkers: get rage and rending

3)noise: 23 points and get sonic weapons default

4)thousand sons and plague marines: same

5)chosen should be built like wolf guard

6)bikers should be 25 points

7)raptors should either be 18 points or get hit and run back

8)demon prince should be about 150 points, 50 point wings, or 175 if the powers are included like hive tyrant

9)Lord/sorcerer's mark, or appropriate special character as it is in the other marine codices, should make appropriate dudes troops

10)chosen made troops by abbadon

[murrburger]

I'm not really sure about any specific point values, but...

I don't like icons, and think they should go back to marked troops. All the cult troops as different entries is excellent, though.

Daemons are a little bland, but I can't see that getting better.

I'd like to see more reasons to use Lords and Sorcerers...

Perhaps seeing things like Raptors and Bikers prices being more in line with SM.

All in all, I don't think the current book is horrible. It's certainly an improvement over that 3.5 mess.

[Dralafi]

Drop Pods.

[eagleboy7259]

I would love to see the uniqueness and love put back into that book. The previous edition had almost everything, rules to field each of the nine traitor legions with character and fluff to match. When that book hit it was the epitome of everything that a codex should be, I remember nearly crapping my pants the first time I took templars up against some EC's, Rhino Rushed, Charged and saw half my army off the table after the first round of assault. It doesn't have to be OP but just enough to do justice to CSM, It should have the size of C:SM and enough options to make them the elite of the elite again, strong enough to edge Wolves and Angels out in combat.

[Fellend]

I think Chaos is one of the strongest and most diverse force out there. It might need some slight point adjustment to make it even more effective but lets face it. It's one of the most dangerous codexes around.

What I would like to see is more options for fun. Wargear choices for Thousand sons, Iron warriors special seige squads, Word bearer Chaplains, more possibilities to ally with Chaos Daemons, making possessed more useful, A possessed IC and so on.

[Herald of Nurgle]

I'd like to see a characterful Black Legion list which can be changed into other legions by having specific additions - Typhus to Death Guard for example. That would be a good way of getting back legion rules without getting GW pissed with 'oh noes there be too many options'.
Essentially 'Legion Tactics'

Perhaps Icons could then replace the Legion Tactics in a Black Legion list with something different - like in the current book - but the icon bearers are simply PERSONAL icons. The unit itself gains the rules, not the icon.

Need a few more daemon engines added such as Brass Scorpions and the Plague Drones.

Need to have a few named Chosen squads or something, like with Legion of the Damned.

Berserkers need to have +1 Strength or their Khornate Chainaxes back. Perhaps these could give -1 to the foe's armour save.

Cultists and Traitors need to be integrated into the list like Lesser Daemons in the current book.

Daemons need to take marks, and perhaps be like Kroot Carnivores - you can upgrade Nurglings, Flesh Hounds, Fiends, and Screamers as individual 'Chaos Beast' choices.

Greater Daemons need a few wargear options.

Daemon Princes need a greater range of Psychic Powers. Speaking of which, 2 special powers for each god.

1000 Son Sorcerers need free powers, at the cost of staying at 60pts. Force Weapon needs to be optional. Need to be able to purchase psychic defense.

Need REAL Dreadnoughts. Make them a blessing, not a curse.

Need to have Fabius Bile perhaps not required to field an Enhanced Warriors army, or perhaps just give VAST BENEFITS if you do field him. Perhaps that could be a variant - take Bile and you can take Acolytes, like Sanguinary Priests.

Need a Company Command Squad option. To make things cool, it could be a Chaos Terminator or Chaos Chosen squad which doesn't count to chart.

Dreadclaw Drop Pods in the list - the ones from IA which can relaunch mid battle.

Noise Marines are integrated into normal Emperor's Children CSM Squads, with Sonic Blasters as an option. We need to get a new Slaanesh squad, tbph, to fill the gap.

Raptors need to reduce enemy Ld with a Transfixing Gaze, and have Hit and Run.

Chaos Bikers need to pursue further and have Skilled Riders. 30pts per model.

Chaos Spawn need to become an upgrade choice for normal units - like Fenrisian Wolves. They should however also be available separate with a 6+ Invulnerable Save. Still 40pts each.

Chaos Havocs need to be 3-10, but more like Long Fangs.

Daemonic Possession needs to be buffed, and all tanks need some sort of Power of the Machine Spirit thing as mandatory.

[Crevab]

I'm sensing... the OP is unfamiliar with the previous Chaos dex.

My opinion? Pretend the current codex never happened.

Release a .pdf that tweaks (new units and additional rules) the vanilla marine list and call it Chaos Renegades.
Release Codex: Traitor Legions.

[Denzark]

4th ed codex. Failing that whatever they like as long as they provide a voodoo doll of Gav Thorpe.

PS Traitor guard and/or renegades, mutants, and pantheon specific daemons.

[Fellend]

You know what would be fun? A man-eating drop pod. It's slams down, unleashes it's contents then starts walking around like a possessed machine and eating stuff.

And make slaanesh less silly. Less rockband references and more emperor's children "we fell because of pride" people like Lucius.

[Melissia]

I don't, because I don't think there should be single unified "chaos" codex.

Instead there should be CSMs, Daemons, and Lost and the Damned, the latter representing xenos, mutants, and traitors, whom form the "army" of Chaos (not CSMs).

Pedantic, I know, but still...

[Abuzorg]

hey guys, I want to know what you guys think that chaos should get in its next codex

4)thousand sons and plague marines: same



Are you insane ?

[zenjah]

I want an SM-sized CSM codex. 144 pages instead of 104.

Replace generic daemons with appropriate units from the Daemons codex. These could be simplified/weakened somewhat, but have recognizable stats/powers.

Add a cultist entry that could be used for cultists or traitor guard on a limited scale. Preferably they would have horrid basic stats and gear (laspistol and 6+ save) to represent lowly cultists, but have the ability to add flak armor, special weapons, and limited heavy weapons to represent traitor guard as well.

Units with Marks should effectively be Cult Units. Marks should be priced per model, unlocked by having an HQ with the same Mark, and grant all the benefits granted to Cult Units in the current codex. Marks should be separated from Icons. Icons could remain as homers with some other small benefit (-1 LD to enemy within 6"?).

Allow most units in the codex to become Cult Units if unlocked by an HQ with the appropriate Mark. Thus you could have Noise Marine Chosen, Berzerker Bikers, Plague Terminators, etc. This would allow whole Cult Armies and would spice up units like Raptors, Bikers, and Chosen.

I would remove the separate unit entries for Berserkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, and Thousand Sons to save space if needed. They would be somewhat redundant if the Cult abilities could be granted to most unit entries in the codex.

While a special character like Typhus should allow the army to add the Mark of Nurgle to units, this ability should also be available to the non-special HQs entries as well.

Add special characters for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers.

Add Drop Pods.

I'd love a Stormraven, but now I'm getting greedy.

[RocketRollRebel]

I don't, because I don't think there should be single unified "chaos" codex.

Instead there should be CSMs, Daemons, and Lost and the Damned, the latter representing xenos, mutants, and traitors, whom form the "army" of Chaos (not CSMs).

Pedantic, I know, but still...

No I agree, Lost and the Damned really needs to come back. To me and the fluff that is the most common representation of a chaos force and could make for such a fun army I think.

The power level of the CSM codex isn't bad considering how well it still stands up to all the releases since it. But it is a bit dry. More customization for HQ's and a drop pod would be gnarly.

[UltramarineFan]

The evil chaplain guys who I can't remember the name of. They would be awesome.
3+ invuns somehow. The new land raider variants. More unique chaos-y wargear, so some stuff which ins't corrupt versions of what the imperials have.

[Necrosis]

Miriael Sabathiel as a special character.

[eagleboy7259]

The evil chaplain guys who I can't remember the name of. They would be awesome.
3+ invuns somehow. The new land raider variants. More unique chaos-y wargear, so some stuff which ins't corrupt versions of what the imperials have.

Word Bearers Dark Apostles? and absolutely, shouldn't chaos get a storm shield too?

Oh let Iron Warriors take Basilisks again. I know that Vinidicator was a concession for us since we didn't get to keep our Legion specific rules but I'd gladly give that up to feel as if this book didn't have the flavor sucked out of it with a hose.

I wanna say make Demons and CSMs all one book again, but 1) I love my demons book and the unique playstyle they have and 2) If they screw up CSMs again I don't wanna have another army that I won't use 90% of the time. Of course I do realize that if they change the reserves table for 6th edition, chaos demons will be complete garbage but hopefully GW has more sense than that... oh wait what? :eek:

[Lothar Bubonicus]

I think it would be cool if each of the ruinous powers got their own codex. We have marines codexes for specific chapters why not for the traitor chapters. A world eaters codex or a deathguard one would be very cool.
If that does not happen then at least give us Deathguard terminators and not just icon oriented terminators. :)
That is what I would like to see happen.

[Melissia]

Why should Chaos get a storm shield? The only reason they should is if it's daemonically powered or if it was available in the Horus Heresy, and IIRC there weren't any back then. I could be wrong about that though, given my general disinterest in the boring wankfest that is Horus Heresy.

[eagleboy7259]

Lemme Rephrase: Why Shouldn't Chaos get a 3++ that they can tack onto their characters?

[zealotic]

Units with Marks should effectively be Cult Units. Marks should be priced per model, unlocked by having an HQ with the same Mark, and grant all the benefits granted to Cult Units in the current codex. Marks should be separated from Icons. Icons could remain as homers with some other small benefit (-1 LD to enemy within 6"?).

Allow most units in the codex to become Cult Units if unlocked by an HQ with the appropriate Mark. Thus you could have Noise Marine Chosen, Berzerker Bikers, Plague Terminators, etc. This would allow whole Cult Armies and would spice up units like Raptors, Bikers, and Chosen.

I would remove the separate unit entries for Berserkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, and Thousand Sons to save space if needed. They would be somewhat redundant if the Cult abilities could be granted to most unit entries in the codex.


I agree to a point, I think it would be cool if they went the wolf guard route and just gave them all mad options in the book, that way everyone is happy they have their own entry, and they can do whatever they want with'em.

I've always seen chaos as the 'do whatever you want' codex, thats what's so fun about

oh and yes, Abuzorg, I am quite delightfully insane

[Melissia]

Lemme Rephrase: Why Shouldn't Chaos get a 3++ that they can tack onto their characters?

Better question-- why should they?

[Necrosis]

Lemme Rephrase: Why Shouldn't Chaos get a 3++ that they can tack onto their characters?

Simply cause then they can combine it with mark of Tzeentch. Which means they have a 2++. Which is broken.

Chaos has marks to make up for it.

[eagleboy7259]

UltramarineFan said it when he was suggesting something for bringing back a Dark Apostle, if we're making up a wish list, sure why not let a Word Bearer's previous unique HQ choice take one? I guess if hypothetically in the new book Word Bearers have their own HQ entry w/ rules that they would not be able to combine it with a Mark of Tzeentch, assuming here that the mark's rules also don't change, as they must be undivided. Not to mention 2++ isn't horribly broken, it's just terminator armor that you can't get around. Dark Eldar (shock and awe here) actually have a piece of wargear called a Shadow Field that you can give to your lord that gives you a 2++ save although it fails after the first time he fails to make his save. Pg 15 under their armory if you don't believe me.

[BlacknightIII]

I want Cypher the fallen angel, if he is in any new dex I will drop what ever army I am building to play him.
(I am a big fan of Dark Angel and Fallen Angel lore)

[Zeruel13]

I've actually been working on a fan made Chaos Codex for close to a year and I know that this sounds more like trying to advertise my codex but instead of listing my ideas in a long winded (and very in depth) post here's a link to a download of my codex which shows what I would like the next codex to be like.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HAYS8WUO

[Necrosis]

UltramarineFan said it when he was suggesting something for bringing back a Dark Apostle, if we're making up a wish list, sure why not let a Word Bearer's previous unique HQ choice take one? I guess if hypothetically in the new book Word Bearers have their own HQ entry w/ rules that they would not be able to combine it with a Mark of Tzeentch, assuming here that the mark's rules also don't change, as they must be undivided. Not to mention 2++ isn't horribly broken, it's just terminator armor that you can't get around. Dark Eldar (shock and awe here) actually have a piece of wargear called a Shadow Field that you can give to your lord that gives you a 2++ save although it fails after the first time he fails to make his save. Pg 15 under their armory if you don't believe me.

Yes the Dark Eldar can get a shadow field but only one. And you shoot a psycannon and that lord goes splat. A 2++ is something that only T3 armies get. Yes their are some special characters that can get it during certain conditions but when it comes to generic units only T3 armies can get it.

Now you want to give a whole unit of guys a 2++ save. People already complain about storm shield. It's pretty brutal. Space Marines get storm shields, chaos gets marks. You can't get both. In order to get something you have to give something up.

[RocketRollRebel]

Meh a Chaos Stormsheild would be lame. People already complain that codexes are becoming too homogenized and this would move CSM closer to being spiky C:SM marines and no one wants that :p.

Maybe being able to mark demons would be cool. A new vehicle? I really don't know what I would actually do to fix it except maybe more flavorful options for HQ units perhaps? I don't dislike the current book but I'm not in love with it either.

[Necrosis]

I think mark daemons would be a great idea. Right now the daemons are just, meh.

[Melissia]

I'd rather see them removed from C:CSM entirely, and just add in a line that allows CSMs to ally in C:CD troops choices.

[eagleboy7259]

Yes the Dark Eldar can get a shadow field but only one. And you shoot a psycannon and that lord goes splat. A 2++ is something that only T3 armies get. Yes their are some special characters that can get it during certain conditions but when it comes to generic units only T3 armies can get it.

Now you want to give a whole unit of guys a 2++ save. People already complain about storm shield. It's pretty brutal. Space Marines get storm shields, chaos gets marks. You can't get both. In order to get something you have to give something up.

Not what I was suggesting, I meant that Word Bearers Dark Apostle in the place of his Rosarius could have like a power or piece of equipment representing his favor with the gods and his status within the legion that would give him a 3++ save. This would be an HQ choice, regular CSM commander stat line and maybe something like Litanies of Rage so people know "oh here comes a badass evil Chappy" The improved stats and save would be because only a handful of evil Dark Apostles exist, whereas were every other Legion murdered their Chaplains during the Hersey the Word Bearers Chappys turned traitor. So 3++ could be because their wearing armor from pre-heresy when everything worked better or just cuz they are so dang old and experienced, or the dark gods favor them.

Just a quick thought, during the Great Crusade the Emperor didn't want to be worshiped the way he is in M40k. What the heck was the point of a Chappy, a warrior-priest, if the Emperor is essential an atheist according to HH books?

[BuFFo]

Dark Eldar (shock and awe here) actually have a piece of wargear called a Shadow Field that you can give to your lord that gives you a 2++ save although it fails after the first time he fails to make his save. Pg 15 under their armory if you don't believe me.

Don't forget, that unlike Chaos, the entire Dark Eldar army generally has 5+ to no armor save as BASE. Even the HQ's have 5+ armor with NO upgrades whatsoever. Dark Eldar codex if you don't believe me.

So yeah, DE have a SINGLE 2++ save piece of wargear, but I would trade that to give my Army a general 3+ save and a way of getting my HQs a 2+ save as well.

I wouldn't want to see any 2++ save in a Chaos army at all.

What I would want to see are the special characters actually worth taking. I miss the old Lucius.

[DarkLink]

I'd rather see them removed from C:CSM entirely, and just add in a line that allows CSMs to ally in C:CD troops choices.

I think, to maintain internal balance in the codex, it would be easiest to simply give summoned Daemons access to the Chaos Marks. So you could get "bloodletters" with furious charge, WS 5 and +1A, but no power weapons. Otherwise, you could have a really cheap unit that can be summoned, drop in, and assault whatever straight out of nowhere. And Bloodletters will kill just about anything short of maybe Genestealers or Harlequins on the charge, so that would be a little OP.

The marks would be the same as other units (like Cult Terminators) should be able to get.

[murrburger]

Not what I was suggesting, I meant that Word Bearers Dark Apostle in the place of his Rosarius could have like a power or piece of equipment representing his favor with the gods and his status within the legion that would give him a 3++ save. This would be an HQ choice, regular CSM commander stat line and maybe something like Litanies of Rage so people know "oh here comes a badass evil Chappy" The improved stats and save would be because only a handful of evil Dark Apostles exist, whereas were every other Legion murdered their Chaplains during the Hersey the Word Bearers Chappys turned traitor. So 3++ could be because their wearing armor from pre-heresy when everything worked better or just cuz they are so dang old and experienced, or the dark gods favor them.

Just a quick thought, during the Great Crusade the Emperor didn't want to be worshiped the way he is in M40k. What the heck was the point of a Chappy, a warrior-priest, if the Emperor is essential an atheist according to HH books?

Space Marines (most of them) didn't, and still don't worship the Emperor as a god.

The Chaplain is responsible for the maintaining of the Chapter Cult (which predates the Ecclesiarchy), and keeping an eye on his bros to make sure they're right in the head.