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Melissia
05-06-2010, 12:23 PM
What I WANTED to do today has apparently been canceled, leaving me with too much time on my hands. SO! I decided to take the general style of the "Art of the Wraithlord" blog post and make it into something applicable to the Sisters. Namely, the core unit of the Sisterhood, the meat, bread, bones, and muscle of any Sisters of Battle army, and indeed any Witch Hunters army (quite frankly I find that Witch Hunter units are little more than laughable anyway)... the Battle Sister Squad.




40k Tactics: Art of the Battle Sister

Battle Sister Squads: Basics
Battle Sisters have only one real issue when using them: getting from point A, your deployment zone, to point B, rapid fire or assault range. This leaves a Sisters force with two requirements... either lots of bodies (for footslogging) or lots of Rhinos (for mechanized).

While Battle Sisters are very survivable and almost never flee (thanks to the Book of St. Lucius and Acts of Faith), they are woefully short range and are not that great in an assault. With them having no equipment longer ranged than 24", and doing the overwhelming majority of their damage at 3"-12", Battle Sisters require a lot of finesse in the movement phase in order to properly use them.

Keep in mind the movement range of any unit that is better than Battle Sisters in an assault (Which, let's face it, is nearly all of them without Acts of Faith). Always try and stay just out of range of an assault, and try and get the enemy to move close enough that you can move and then lay on the rapid fire + flamer template which Sisters squads are so (in)famous for without letting them get close enough to assault. This is much easier said than done, and it's the reason why I always recommend Mechanized forces. Mechanized Battle Sisters are able to move 12", disembark from their transports, and then shoot their weapons, giving them a greater threat range and allowing them to hang back more.

-- Infantry/Walkers: 12" assault threat (6+6)
-- Fleet: 12"+d6" assault threat (6+d6+6)
-- Transports: 15" assault threat (6+6+3)
-- Jump Pack: 18" assault threat (12+6)
-- Bikes/Jetbikes: 18" assault threat (12+6)
-- Beasts/Cavalry: 18"+d6" assault threat (6+d6+12)
-- Open Topped Transports: 21" assault threat (12+3+6) * At least, if I'm reading the rules correctly, which I assume I am.

Keeping track of the circle of assault threat when fighting assault-dedicated enemies is the most important element of playing Sisters, and certainly the most for Battle Sisters. Anything which can move a long distance and assault the Sisters is a big risk, because it means Sisters can't get off their turn of shooting. Battle Sisters themselves have the greatest threat range when mechanized, and are thus able to (somewhat) mitigate the problem of long-ranged assault units.

When fighting a heavily shooting-based army such as Guard, the stakes are much different. There, footslogging Sisters are even weaker, because they must run 6"+d6" every turn until they get into rapid fire range. Meanwhile, Mechanized Sisters are able to move 12" and pop smoke the first turn, allowing them a (hopefully) much faster and safer move into attacking. The game against shooty armies is far simpler than the one against assault armies, and the army plays almost as if it were an assault army.

Battle Sister Squads: Armory
All squads are assumed to have the Book of St. Lucius. A Sisters squad without the BoSL is like a Marine squad without ATSKNF, or an Ork squad without Mob Rule. Similarly, when picking a Rhino, I almost always use Forgeworld rules for mine-- thus dropping the cost of the squad by 19 points per squad. It really does make a difference. That said, there are three general setups for Battle Sister Squads.

Flamer / Heavy Flamer (or Flamer / Flamer for cheap lists)
-- This setup is pure anti-infantry firepower. It is deadly against MEQ, GEQ, and anything in between. However it has ZERO anti-tank firepower, and so should only rarely be taken. A combi-melta on the veteran to balance out the list can be helpful, but even at BS4 one melta shot is a risk for the amount of points you pay.

Heavy Flamer / Meltagun (or Flamer / Meltagun)
-- The most balanced setups. Combined with a combi-flamer on the veteran, this is my preferred setup. Every squad has the ability to pop vehicles, and has plenty of firepower in bolters and templates. The combiflamer is a much better purchase than the combi-melta because it doesn't require a to-hit roll and is cheaper besides.

Meltagun / Meltagun
-- Very anti-tank heavy. Not entirely a BAD setup per se, but lacks anti-GEQ and anti-horde because of the lack of cover save ignoring goodness that are flamers. Combined with a combi-flamer, however, this is somewhat mitigated. In footslogging armies, this is the preferred setup-- after all, the squads have plenty of bolters for anti-infantry, and they need all the anti-tank they can get.


In regards to other options:
-- Frag Grenades: Battle Sisters are not built for assault. If they ARE to assault (which is actually a valid tactic in some situations), however, it's best done with Hand of the Emperor, which completely negates the main benefit of having Frag Grenades in the first place.

-- Krak Grenades: Let's face it, they're just too expensive on Battle Sisters. The only real use they might have is against Walkers, but even then the highest pen kraks get is 12 anyway.

-- Imagifier: For the most part, it's too expensive to justify on a troops choice. Whenever you have ten or more members, it becomes nearly impossible to succeed certain acts of faith, and nearly impossible to fail others. I say NEARLY, because it's still possible, but the Imagifier doesn't really help much until one gets down in numbers to around seven models. And at the price you pay for it, it's better to give it to something harder hitting which needs it more, like Celestian Retinues.

-- Priest: Priests CAN be useful... but are generally better on Celestian squads. Because Priests come with NO equipment, they are more expensive than they appear in the army list. Probably the best setup for Priests puts them at 100+ points each, which is very... ouch, on a troops choice unit that already often comes to ~200 points. Furthermore, Mech units can't even take them to begin with because Rhinos only hold ten models.

Fellend
05-06-2010, 12:34 PM
Good tactics post. Don't play sisters, never will but still a good post.

Calypso2ts
05-06-2010, 02:17 PM
I have to disagree a little bit with your assessment. While running HF/Melta CF is a good load out, I like to run mine with HF/Flamer/CF. This has no anti tank, but that is what Exorcists are for (popping light tanks so a SoB squad can light up the contents). To run my Meltas I use Celestians in Immolators which is cheaper by a good margin of points to get and keeps my troops out of harms way. Why?

I do not need to approach a LR /Predator/Vindicator because the non scoring Celestians can. This lets the SoB squad play clean up with Flamers while the other expendable Meltas do the heavy lifting of busting open transports.

Melissia
05-06-2010, 03:10 PM
It's not the Land Raiders that the meltaguns need to deal with the most.

It's the walkers. If your Exorcists can't take them down in time (And despite Exorcists being awesome, it's still a matter of luck with d6 shots), and they enter an assault? That's goodbye for the Sisters squad, who can't hurt it at all even with Hand of the Emperor-- and has to flee and use an Act of Faith. A heavy flamer and combiflamer is enough for anti-infantry.

Tynskel
05-06-2010, 03:43 PM
I am guessing the Priest is using a Rosarius, Eviscerator, and Power Armor-- ~100 points. However, that kinda cost for a character isn't unreasonable- 2 wounds, and 3 Str6 re-roll to hit attacks on the charge (plus the squad!)-- not bad. You could probably do away with the Rosarius; Priests count as an upgrade character in the Witch Hunters Dex, so they can hide amongst numbers.

I am curious if this arrangement is worthwhile (assuming 2000 point army with at least 3 squads of battle sisters, and some other 'goodies')- because I usually only fight sisters (I am interested in starting a Sisters Force), but I have never seen this:

HQ 486
141 Canoness
Blessed Weapon, Cloak of Aspira, Rosarius, Frag, Melta Bombs, Infernus Pisol
245 Celestian Retinue
8 Celestians, Vet Superior Upgrade, Power Weapon, Combi-Melta, 2 Meltaguns, Imagifer, Frag
Dedicated Transport: Rhino, Ex Armor, Smoke Launchers
100 Priest
Power Armor, Eviscerator, Rosarius

Has anyone used this?
I am curious- it is a tad bit on the expensive side- but 4 melta shots + a bunch of good close combat. Is it worth it?

EDIT:
Another thing I have never seen:
Is using Hand of the Emperor effective with Blessed Weapons/ Eviscerators? It sounds good to me (str7 Power Weapon, and Str 8 Eviscerators). Not once have I seen this combo.

Melissia
05-06-2010, 03:53 PM
Personally, I always prefer a setup like that, though I typically have it be a pure assault force with HFlamer / Flamer / Brazier / Brazier.

To the last question: Yes.

It adds +2 strength to all members of the squad. Including ones with special weapons like Blessed Weapons and Eviscerators. This +2 strength is a modifier and therefor added AFTER the double strength mod of the Eviscerator, resulting in S8 on the Eviscerator, and S7 on the Blessed Weapon.

I use it all the time.

Tynskel
05-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Cool-- sounds like I am thinking along the same lines that you are--- and are treating the ladies like tha Bad Mofos they are.

I just have never seen anyone treat their ladies this way.

I am also curious about suicide squads- squads designed to die for Martyrdom- allowing squads like the one before mentioned to continue fighting. Sister Squads, sometimes can be expensive, even a basic one is ~200 points with transport. The 'Acts of Faith' seem to be encouraging this type of behavior- but the question is: do they actually work this way.


EDIT:
Oi! That's a lot of flamers!! :)

Melissia
05-06-2010, 04:05 PM
I am also curious about suicide squads- squads designed to die for Martyrdom
I never do that, and will never, EVER support it. The Sisters are religious fanatics, this is true; they view martyrdom as a good thing, this is true; but they are NOT idiotic or incompetent. Martyrdom isn't the goal of any real Sister (Repentia don't count-- they're no longer Sisters).

Tynskel
05-06-2010, 04:12 PM
oky doky.

It sounds like it is more a matter of 'oh well, I got a faith point back'. (for the player), and for the Sisters, 'Avenge the Fallen'.

Melissia
05-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Perhaps.

But I play for background, trying to win is part of the background, but if you've lost your commanders-- veterans of thousands of battles-- just sacrificing them in a small pitched skirmish?

You've lost even if you "win".

DarkLink
05-06-2010, 04:16 PM
I have to disagree a little bit with your assessment. While running HF/Melta CF is a good load out, I like to run mine with HF/Flamer/CF. This has no anti tank, but that is what Exorcists are for (popping light tanks so a SoB squad can light up the contents). To run my Meltas I use Celestians in Immolators which is cheaper by a good margin of points to get and keeps my troops out of harms way. Why?

I do not need to approach a LR /Predator/Vindicator because the non scoring Celestians can. This lets the SoB squad play clean up with Flamers while the other expendable Meltas do the heavy lifting of busting open transports.

It depends on what your meta is. Exorcists are almost useless against Land Raiders, for example, so one would need to rely on meltaguns.

More or less, what weapons you pick should be based on your relative needs. If you're going to face lots of tanks (or monstrous creatures), then bring meltaguns. If you need lots of anti-infantry, then take lots of flamers.

Melissia
05-06-2010, 04:19 PM
And if you want a balanced take-all-comers force which can handle either, you typically take HF/MG/CF.

Tynskel
05-06-2010, 04:35 PM
I have never been a fan of the 'meta' gaming approach. This usually lends to poor results when you decide to play against a different group.

Also, an all comers list gives you the most tactical flexibility, and logically, should be the most fun- because you can continually play the list you have, and use it differently every time.

DarkLink
05-06-2010, 05:40 PM
And if you want a balanced take-all-comers force which can handle either, you typically take HF/MG/CF.


I have never been a fan of the 'meta' gaming approach. This usually lends to poor results when you decide to play against a different group.

Also, an all comers list gives you the most tactical flexibility, and logically, should be the most fun- because you can continually play the list you have, and use it differently every time.

Right. I agree that, in general, the best setup is a meltagun, heavy flamer, and combi-weapon on the vet. Though having a couple of full tank-hunting squads and a couple all anti-infantry squads can be just as balanced, potentially.

faolan
05-06-2010, 09:47 PM
Ah yes, the pyrrhic victory.

Good short article there, Melissia.

Got any advice for those of us who only have 2 units of 10 sisters and want to use them with the Guard? :)

imperialsavant
05-06-2010, 11:34 PM
;) Hullo Melissa my Dear (may I call you my Dear?)

I notice you did not include Heavy Bolters in your Army Listing.
Maybe you dont take them in your list but I find they are the one weapon (outside of Exorcists) that give Sisters a range of 36" & have good strength & reasonable AP.
I usually take 4 in a 10 strong Retributor Squad with an Imagifer to help get AP1 hits & find they almost always earn more than their points. If necessary I might drop 1 HB for a Multi-Melta if Vs Armour Heavy forces but usually find the 2 Exorcists & Seras with Melta Bombs do the job.

What are your thoughts on H/Bolters??

Commissar Lewis
05-07-2010, 12:37 AM
Well written article (technically forum post, but nonetheless) that does highlight the strengths and weaknesses of the Sisters.


I really should repaint my 20 Sister models and break em out one of these days. They could provide an armored spearhead for my Flying V Formation. Them allied to my Guard army, charging in alongside Iron Hand... The Flying V could be formidable and not merely a joke manuever that's fun but not effective.

Melissia
05-07-2010, 02:06 AM
[snip]

Battle Sister Squads cannot equip Heavy Bolters, so it would be pointless to discuss Heavy Bolters in this tactica.

If you mean Storm Bolters, excuse me while I fall out of my chair while laughing raucously.


Ah yes, the pyrrhic victory.

Good short article there, Melissia.

Got any advice for those of us who only have 2 units of 10 sisters and want to use them with the Guard? :)

That depends on what you want out of them. Battle Sisters work best with other Sisters units, due to the synergy built by the Acts of Faith system. However, certain Guard special characters can really make any Sisters unit shine, and the Book of St. Lucius also effects any Guard squad with a model within 6" of the carrier, alllowing them to make use of the higher LD, and the effects of what basically amounts to an enhanced stubborn rule (applies to both morale and pinning checks).

DarkLink
05-07-2010, 07:56 AM
I think using Sisters as a form of counter assault unit to clear out any enemies that make it into your guard's lines would be the best use of a few allied squads.

imperialsavant
05-07-2010, 06:31 PM
Battle Sister Squads cannot equip Heavy Bolters, so it would be pointless to discuss Heavy Bolters in this tactica.

If you mean Storm Bolters, excuse me while I fall out of my chair while laughing raucously.



No, No, I know! ;) So you dont run Rets with Heavy Weapons at all??

No I did NOT mean Storm Bolters & please dont fall out of your Chair unless wearing Power Armour or you might hurt yourself even if laughing! :)

Seriously though Melissa you dont utilise Retributors? I find they are one of the most useful units but my Game style must be different to yours. I also use Rhino mounted Celestines with Evisc, Storm Bolter & Flamer as C/C troops when C/C is forced or necessary.

imperialsavant
05-07-2010, 06:37 PM
:rolleyes: Ahhh, I see! My Bad!:o
I just reread your original post & realised you were ONLY referring to the Basic Battle Sister NOT Sisters of Battle as an Army.

mutters---- That what comes of "speed reading" squillions of BoLs Posts-----growl etc!:rolleyes:

I would be most interested to see your total Army List if you care to do so! :)

Melissia
05-07-2010, 08:11 PM
I think using Sisters as a form of counter assault unit to clear out any enemies that make it into your guard's lines would be the best use of a few allied squads.

And THAT is best done by Celestians. A celestian squad and a celestian retinue squad with canoness would work; takes up an elites choice and an HQ choice, but is much better at counter-assault because of WS4, and are better in assault in general because of I4.

Necrosis
05-07-2010, 09:11 PM
And THAT is best done by Celestians. A celestian squad and a celestian retinue squad with canoness would work; takes up an elites choice and an HQ choice, but is much better at counter-assault because of WS4, and are better in assault in general because of I4.

Doesn't that only take up an HQ slot? Since a retinue takes up the same force organization as the Canoness.

Melissia
05-07-2010, 09:20 PM
I stated a Celestian squad AND a retinue. The guy had two squads, after all.

So:

HQ: Canoness and Celestian Retinue
Elites: Celestian Squad

Producing at most twenty one models, at minimum, eleven models.

The Storm Bolter models are a problem though. Because Storm Bolters suck as special weapons for the price you pay for them.

Kahoolin
05-07-2010, 09:48 PM
And THAT is best done by Celestians. A celestian squad and a celestian retinue squad with canoness would work; takes up an elites choice and an HQ choice, but is much better at counter-assault because of WS4, and are better in assault in general because of I4.I've been trying to work out a good way to include some of my sisters with my guard in a way that's fluffy but doesn't dominate too much. Of course, Celestians! Thanks for that.

Commissar Lewis
05-07-2010, 10:10 PM
Hm, Celestians, good idea... Will have to try that out one day. Them and old Iron Hand should at the very least halt my friend's Berzerker wave.

Tynskel
05-07-2010, 11:10 PM
I stated a Celestian squad AND a retinue. The guy had two squads, after all.

So:

HQ: Canoness and Celestian Retinue
Elites: Celestian Squad

Producing at most twenty one models, at minimum, eleven models.

The Storm Bolter models are a problem though. Because Storm Bolters suck as special weapons for the price you pay for them.

sounds like a good addition to any army. Plus, that's 4 Faith Points, allow you to not be stingy with the 'Acts of Faith'. Really good idea- possibly a good addition to just about any army.

Maybe that's how I'll start off my Sister's army through collecting those 2 squads first.

DarkLink
05-07-2010, 11:50 PM
And with the Celestian + Canoness combo, you can get a Heavy Flamer, Flamer, and two Combi-flamers, all with pseudo-rending. That'll put wounds on practically any heavy duty CC unit that makes it to your lines.

Melissia
05-08-2010, 03:00 AM
Personally I'd prefer the Brazier of Holy Flame on such a squad, which allows the canoness and veteran to also each have eviscerator or an extra attack with power weapons.

Expensive, yes, but worth it. Actually not more expensive, as technically the BoHF has the same cost as a combiflamer, but the other weapon added ontop of it (power weapon or eviscerator) does make it expensive.


Also remember that the Canoness is not an IC whenever she has a retinue. So she can't be individually targeted, giving the squad two untargetable eviscerators. Or an eviscerator and blessed weapon, the latter of which is master-crafted and strikes at S5 I4.

Necrosis
05-08-2010, 09:47 AM
Also throw in a priest and give him an eviscerator. He is also not an IC so he can't be targetted. That means when your sisters charge your hitting on 3+ and rerolling misses.

DarkLink
05-08-2010, 04:22 PM
Personally I'd prefer the Brazier of Holy Flame on such a squad, which allows the canoness and veteran to also each have eviscerator or an extra attack with power weapons.

Expensive, yes, but worth it. Actually not more expensive, as technically the BoHF has the same cost as a combiflamer, but the other weapon added ontop of it (power weapon or eviscerator) does make it expensive.


Also remember that the Canoness is not an IC whenever she has a retinue. So she can't be individually targeted, giving the squad two untargetable eviscerators. Or an eviscerator and blessed weapon, the latter of which is master-crafted and strikes at S5 I4.

Yeah, a Brazier is basically a Combi-sword, more or less. And I've found that Eviscerators can be very well worth it.

I always found it ironic that the Celestian Eviscerator hits on a 3+, while the Cannones hits on a 4+ against WS 4 or greater.

Melissia
05-08-2010, 04:39 PM
Personally I found it more stupid than ironic, but then they changed Holy Hatred back to its original rules for some reason.