A couple SM Q's

[Lord Azaghul]

1) Can I purchase Servitors for the thunderfire cannon? I'm assuming no because the entry specifies Techmarine and or Moft AND the thunderfire cannon is not an independant character.

2) This is more power fist vs power weapon que: Are power fist worth it? They just seem overpriced for what you get, and striking last seems to be a real detriment with all the relic blades, claws, and power weapons running around; especially if you combat squad - the rest of the squad seems to drop too fast.
Powerweapons seems to drop foes faster, and help keep the squad around longer.

I'm considering moving my sargents to powersword/melta bomb.

Any insight would be helpful.

[gwensdad]

1) no, the techmarine is the entire crew. If you could buy them, they would be listed as some sort of "upgrade"

2) It kind of boils down to a meta-game here. If your regular opponents use vehicles, then power sword/Melta bomb. If they use high-toughness units (carnifaxes, avatars, etc) then give your sarges the power fists.

[keithsilva]

I believe u can buy Servitors for the thunderfire cannon, I dont have the book in front of me but it says under sevitors u can include one squad for every techmarine in your army. There is a techmarine attached to the thunderfire cannon so I would allow it they would be apart of the crew. This is all based on the entirely for servitors, since its say YOU MAY INCLUDE ONE SERVITOR SUQAD FOR EVERY TECHMARINE.

[Tynskel]

I believe u can buy Servitors for the thunderfire cannon, I dont have the book in front of me but it says under sevitors u can include one squad for every techmarine in your army. There is a techmarine attached to the thunderfire cannon so I would allow it they would be apart of the crew. This is all based on the entirely for servitors, since its say YOU MAY INCLUDE ONE SERVITOR SUQAD FOR EVERY TECHMARINE.

Nah, you can't. The entry states you can have servitors for Techmarine and Master of the Forge. p.138

The Thunderfire Cannon doesn't have a techmarine-- it has a 'Techmarine Gunner'. p142

[keithsilva]

But he is still a techmarine even if he is a gunner that's were the problem is. It doesn't say he can't and since he is a techmarine just a different type of one he would be able

[Lord Azaghul]

Nah, you can't. The entry states you can have servitors for Techmarine and Master of the Forge. p.138

The Thunderfire Cannon doesn't have a techmarine-- it has a 'Techmarine Gunner'. p142

This is why I was heading toward no.

[Tynskel]

As for your other question:

I use both Power Weapons and Powerfists in my army. Powerfists are expensive- but, they also get the job done! You are right in pointing out there can be an issue if the squad size is small. One way to mitigate this issue is to fight on your terms. For Ex.: staying in your transport until you can charge.

I usually give power weapons to rhino 10 man squads and powerfists to the 5 man squad razorback. The rhino squad charging is great for clearing large mobs, while I usually pair a character with the powerfist- the character adds that punch that would be missing with the 5 guys.

[Culven]

But he is still a techmarine even if he is a gunner that's were the problem is. It doesn't say he can't. . .
The rules are not written to restrict anything (unless there is a conflict between two rules). You would need a rule stating that a unit of Servitors could be selected for "Techmarine Gunners".

. . . and since he is a techmarine just a different type of one he would be able
By that logic, a "Space Marine Sergeant" could use "Space Marine" options and Hellfire Rounds could be used in "Storm Bolters". One must use the full name as the keyword, not just the part of the name that matches the keyword they want. A "Techmarine Gunner" is not a "Techmarine" and will not allow the selection of Servitors. Even if it were possible, the Servitors would be a separate unit that would spend the majority of their time Mindlocked and unable to do anything.

[karandras]

Agreed. Thunderfire Cannons cannot purchase Servitors. To say otherwise is to write ones own rules.

[DarkLink]

Right, if you were able to take servitors in a thunderfire cannon unit, then the unit entry would say that you could. The unit entry doesn't, therefor you can't. Simple as that. Techmarine doesn't matter.

[Sir Biscuit]

Honestly, I feel like the "you can't take servitors because it's a techmarine gunner not a techmarine" argument is debatable. If you look at the Thunderfire's page, (73) you'll notice it says that the Thunderfire is crewed by "a techmarine".

Though even if you can take servitors, they couldn't join the Techmarine until the Thunderfire is destroyed. Which is too bad, because if you could attach servitors to a Thunderfire unit, it might, actually, ya know, make Thunderfire's good. Or at least decent.

[keithsilva]

servitors can be attached to the thunnderfire cannon they would be apart of the crew. Under Artillery rule
in the rule book IC can attach to Artillery but can not fire the gun because of being a IC but for all other purose is apart of the crew, so the servitors could attach not have to worry about mindlock and fire since they are not an IC.

All you would be doing is keeping the techmarine alive longer and in turn keeping the cannon going.

[Lord Azaghul]

All you would be doing is keeping the techmarine alive longer and in turn keeping the cannon going.

Not that that would be a bad thing!:D

[murrburger]

Wait, what?

I agree that the Thunderfire allowing Servitors is debatable. (Not that it matters, because servitors are crap)

However, the servitors can never join the Thunderfire, ever. I don't know what you're referring to, but there are no IC's involved. Servitors are their own unit, the Thunderfire is its own unit.

The Techmarine is not an IC until the cannon is destroyed.

[keithsilva]

they would be attached to the techamarine, i see it as a captain buy a command squad, the techamarine could not deattache himself until the cannon was gone thats when u turns into a IC

[murrburger]

It doesn't work that way in the 5th edition codex.

Command Squad and Servitors are just Infantry. They have no special rules in regards to being retinues.

[keithsilva]

but the only way the buy one is either having a master for a honor guard, captain for a command squad, techmarine/master of the forge for a servitor squad. Its the same with eldar you cant have a seer council without first having a farseer.

they dont take up a force slot

[murrburger]

It doesn't work that way in the 5th edition codex.

Command Squad and Servitors are just Infantry. They have no special rules in regards to being retinues.

Warlocks are the same. There are no special rules regarding attaching Farseers, or anything like that. They are just a normal unit that needs a Farseer to be 'unlocked'.

[keithsilva]

Ok to unlock servitors u needed a techmarine in your army do for all pupose a techmarine gunner is a techmarine so he could buy them and they would be attached to him

[Nabterayl]

Techmarine gunners are not for all purposes the same as a techmarine. For instance, techmarine gunners are not ICs, even when their gun is destroyed.

[murrburger]

Actually, it says he does not benefit from the Blessing or IC status unless the gun has been destroyed.

On Servitors, this is the last time I'm going to say this before I give up. Servitors can not be attached to a Thunderfire Cannon, nor can they be attached to a Techmarine.

To take Servitors, you need to have a Techmarine in your list. After that, you may attach the Techmarine to the Servitors (As they function as their own unit, and the Techmarine may join them As he is an IC)

The Servitors, I repeat, are just a normal unit of infantry. They can not attach to Techmarines, nor Thunderfire Cannons any more than Tactical Marines could.

Space Marines have no retinue rules. A Command Squad functions as its own unit, and never even has to go near the Captain.

[DarkLink]

Actually, it says he does not benefit from the Blessing or IC status unless the gun has been destroyed.

On Servitors, this is the last time I'm going to say this before I give up. Servitors can not be attached to a Thunderfire Cannon, nor can they be attached to a Techmarine.

To take Servitors, you need to have a Techmarine in your list. After that, you may attach the Techmarine to the Servitors (As they function as their own unit, and the Techmarine may join them As he is an IC)

The Servitors, I repeat, are just a normal unit of infantry. They can not attach to Techmarines, nor Thunderfire Cannons any more than Tactical Marines could.

Space Marines have no retinue rules. A Command Squad functions as its own unit, and never even has to go near the Captain.

This is correct. Having a techmarine allows for a unit of servitors. An independent, separate, unique, not-attached-to-the-techmarine unit of servitors.

And the techmarine cannot join the servitors until the cannon is destroyed. Simple as that.