Bloody f***ing Angels!

[Legoklods]

Ok people, I need your help so that I can kill Blood Angels.
This is list:
Wolf Priest with melta bombs (going in this)
Land Raider Redeemer with some upgrades (with these guys: )
11 Blood Claws, 1 power fist.
10 Grey Hunters 2*metal 1 power weapon.
in a Pod.
10 Grey Hunters 2*flamer 1 power fist.
in a rihno.
5 wolf scouts with meltabombs.
Long Fangs: 2*lascannons 3*plasma cannons.

total 1500.

The idear is pretty obvious; Land raider kill infantry (and so does the cargo) rihno (with cargo) is somewhat flexible, the pod comes down and a tank dies, lascannons kill tanks, plasma cannons kill infantry.

This is what I was facing:
Librarian (able to use 2 powers-upgrade)
scouts with snipers.
10 assault marines with a priest.
10 man Death company in a rihno.
5 man honour guard.
2*baal prets with heavy bolters and assault cannons.
furioso dread with blood talons.


Battle report:
BA turn 1.
the long fangs died and never got to shoot anything.
SW turn 1.
When the grey hunters came down by pod they missed a baal pret. the grey hunters in the rihno was murdered by the furioso dread as I tried to assault it. The land raider failed at shooting the dread. my sky claws assaulted his assault marines and died.
BA turn 2
The land raider took a beating but prevailed. the death company was unloaded near by my the land raider. The hunters from the pod got shot by the prets they were ment to kill and then assaulted by his honour guard.
SW turn 2.
My scouts entered the battle and beated his scouts. The land raider once again failed at harming the dread.
BA turn 3
the pod and rhino was destroyed.
SW turn 3.
the land raider shot at a baal pret and failed (AGAIN).
BA turn 4.
The land raider felt the burn of a melta, was destroyed, the blood claws got assaulted and destroyed.

GG.

I was anihilated by turn 4, and honest to God I can't see any flaw in my tactic... so now gentelmen: what should I have in my list next time and how do I use it?

[Fellend]

More killy stuff, used in a killier way?'
It would help if you told us what went wrong

[Tynskel]

Gotta shoot 'em as they approach. The Long Fangs should be trying to pop that rhino with DC first thing. Once it is popped, you should have some time before the DC become a problem. Don't drop pod the squad next to the BA, they'll rip you apart. You should hold the DP squad back, near your lines.

[Legoklods]

More killy stuff, used in a killier way?'
It would help if you told us what went wrong
got a report for you

and you Tynskel.

[Noxx]

Assaulting the furioso was probably a mistake. Stick a pack leader (whatever it's called) with the wolf scouts and behind-enemy-lines in behind the tanks, mash 'em up.

Other than that, I think losing your long fangs early on really hamstrung you, protect them better. I'd consider maybe a melta dread in a drop pod rather than 11 grey hunters, for that tank-hunting role.

[Tynskel]

if you don't have turn 1: hide the long fangs behind the land raider. On your turn, move the LR out of the way and start blasting stuff.

I think you have good list- but you just need to use some more flexibility in the tactics. As I said before, the drop pod landing in the middle of the foe was not in favor for your grey hunters. I am sure you now know how deadly Blood Angels Furiosos are.

[R3con]

Thats alot of points tied up in Long Fangs. More than I'd ever want to pour into them, why not some ML or HB instead of plas cannons?

[Noxx]

I've got one devastator made up with the plasma cannon, and he always performs horribly. I suppose two or three might be more effective, but that's getting expensive

[ashnaile]

for the long fangs, all missile launchers is the best loadout.

[Dingareth]

Get some anti-tank? That would have helped, rather than trying to assault an armor 13 Dread with only a Powerfist, what did you think was going to happen!?

[Emperorsmercy]

It's a big change, but maybe consider fielding 2 redeemers? I have faced several blood angel armies and the following seems to work.

1- FIll the redeemers with assault troops such as terminators.
2- Send some unit's (Grey Hunters, or possibly Wolf Scouts.) ahead, so the Blood angel's descend upon them.
3- Either burn the enemy or beat them in assault. Which isn't usually too hard if it's assault marines vs terminators.

Although I played at 1750 points level, so choose to ignore this if you want. :D

[bigrob281]

furiosos with talons are nasty i had 1 run into a mob of 11 boys w/nob and kill everyone before they could attack back (the look on my buddies face was priceless) so i would definetly avoid combat at all cost untill you destroy one of the arms . that and it sounds like you just got out rolled it happens to the best of us .

[bonedale]

You just got outclassed in assault. You can do two things as I see it. Try to match him in assault power or up your shooting power.

Let's face it, you need to beat the BAs in assault. It's just more fun. So I would make sure you have Storm Caller, you need that cover to gain initiative. Lose the plasma cannons since they are sweet, but expensive, and replace with MLs. Get a TLLC razorback with your long fangs, so you can protect them or have some return fire ready. Personally I would drop the one pod and replace with a rhino, in a 1500pt game you can't afford to suicide a squad even if they kill a tank. Your grey hunters are your core units, they need MotW, Wolf guard with a combi-melta and powerfist.

[Tynskel]

I like your list. You should stick with it and change up the tactics.

[beeny13]

ok, first the list.

the long fangs are set up to pop transports and kill the passengers inside. only problem is that they can't do both in one turn. also 2 lascannons are very pricy. if you hide just one lascannon in the fangs then there is a good chance that your opponent won't spend the effort to silence it. if you have 2 in the same squad even bolters will pop one out just by wound allocation eventually. long fangs have the disadvantage of not having ablative wounds, unless you count the cheaper weapons.

plasma cannons are overpriced at 20 points each. missile launchers and heavy bolters can do most of what the plasma does for a lot less, and you don't lose as many points of firepower with every failed save.

your grey hunters are a suicide squad. but how many points are they and what can you rely on them doing? if you had 2 different pods then you could use drop pod assault to place melta first turn, then reserve in troops. or place resilient hand to hand units near your opponent while following up with a late game heavy flamer.

right now though your grey hunters only succeed at forcing your opponent to use 7 or 800 points to kill them in one turn. sure that frees up a bit of firepower from stopping your land raider, but they aren't the same type.

so let's get them in a rhino instead.

finally you need wolfguard in this list. your list is very focused on combat, but it also kind of sucks at it. your hammer unit isn't fearsome merely good. and your resilient troops don't have firepower backup to keep them from getting overrun by superior assault units.
let's do 4 wolfguard, one for each close combat squad. they should get fists and combi meltas. we will get rid of your power weapon and fist upgrades on one attack models.

100 wolf priest(doesn't need bombs if his squad has fist/rending)
230 5 wolf guard- 4 fist/combimelta, 1 terminator armor/chainfist/heavy flamer,
85 5 wolf scouts-melta gun
165 10 blood claws-motw, flamer
115 5 grey hunters-flamer, razorback-heavy bolter
120 5 grey hunters-melta, razorback-heavy bolter
120 5 grey hunters-melta, razorback-heavy bolter
265 land raider redeemer-extra armor, multimelta
70 land speeder-multimelta/heavy flamer
105 6 long fangs-lascannon, 2 missile launchers, 1 heavy bolter
125 6 long fangs-lascannon, 2 missile launchers, 2 heavy bolters

this list is 1500 on the dot. your friend has a good ba list, especially against you since it has better assault and firepower. and is almost as resilient as yours.

with this list you have over twice the firepower, are a little heavier in kill points, and also have a little more power in assaults.

blood angels hate spread out armies, long range firepower, and terrain. use the terrain of the board to try to force him into moving his assault squads into cover as much as possible. dangerous terrain is very rough on jump packs. also your assault reach is better than his-land raiders plus disembark range means that you should decide when to charge, and try to milk an extra turn of shooting down jump packers.

the game should go like this-fangs target dc rhino with cannons and missiles, heavy bolter the baals if you can get side armor even if they get cover. once the dc rhino is imoobilized/destroyed lascannons start targeting furioso dread, missile launchers target honour guard. grey hunter razorbacks try for side on baals, then assault squad when baals are shaken, redeemer stays back pretty far and shoots infantry with assault cannon, vehicle with multimelta.
wolf scouts come in with behind enemy line to hunt down scouts/contest objectives.
speeder deep strikes, first priority is rear shot on baals, second priority scouts. must be near enough to death company that it can be used to kite them(move close enought that rage forces them to follow you around instead of your other units.

also keep units spread apart enough that he can't use the assault squad to assault multiple units
by third turn he should have popped 2 razorbacks and assaulted at least two of your units, now is when you finally charge in with the blood claws. wipe out one of the combats, and try to use the flamestorms while possibly forcing the dc to charge your raider.
fourth turn his dread should be in play, try to assault it with the chainfist wolfguard from the scouts if possible. try to shoot down his victorious assault squad with your long fangs.

[TSINI]

I'm confused, i thought you took a redeemer for anti infantry but you spent the whole time shooting at vehicles with it.

I think you need to create a plan and stick to it (something i myself am terrible at :D)

the suggestion of the melta on the landraider seems a good idea, that way it can multitask.

maybe as people have said, beef up the anti armour. The main weakness of marine forces as far as i can see is their reliance on Lascannons to pop tanks, and usually in small numbers. - everyone knows when you rely on a single die roll it all goes terribly wrong.

the strength of marines comes from popping tanks up close and personal, krak grenades on rear armour usually does the trick, with the odd special weapon in there.

[MarshalAdamar]

Here’s my 2 cents since I play Wolves.

WOLF PRIEST = GOOD

Or

Take a Wolf lord with twin lightning claws and Saga of the Warrior born watch the bodies pile up. But he’s more expensive than the priest.

BLOOD CLAWS 11+PF = GOOD, BUT and it’s a big BUT

Every one looks at the +2 attacks on the charge from the blood claws (YEA) but they are WS3 (so what you say, they still hit on a 4+) TRUE… BUT the Death Company returns the favor on a 3+ thus landing more hits even if you charge them. I prefer Wolf guard for this kind of work, they have base 2 attacks +1 for two weapons +1 for charging and they have the same hitting power as blood claws on the charge AND they have +1 attack MORE than the BC each turn after the charge.

So for the dollars to donuts Take Wolf guard with PF and frost blade and everyone else BP/CS

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER = GOOD But you have to get CLOSE with it, which you’ll have to do anyway to drop off the Blood claw’s (or wolf guard)

GREY HUNTERS X10 2 MELTA GUNS, PW IN A DROP POD = No sir, I don’t like it.

The hunters will be on their own in enemy territory and get mauled. Drop the pod, and one melta gun and the power weapon, put them in a rhino and add a wolf guard with power fist for 2pf attacks are round and 3 on the charge. Try this

GREY HUNTERS X9 + WG PACK LEADER w PF, MELTA GUN. + Rhino + X armor = Mobile and you can shoot a mg from the rhino with some safety.

I would drop the flamers vs. blood angels and take another unit of grey hunters like the one above.

GREY HUNTERS X9 + WG PACK LEADER w PF, MELTA GUN. + Rhino + X armor = If one is good, 2 is better.

WOLF SCOUTS WITH MELTA BOMBS = Hmmmmm Mixed reviews. Me, I would drop them for something more choppy.

His Baal Predators are fast so they’re going to move away from his board edge ASAP to engage your troops with the assault cannon. So I think the scouts are a squishy target with limited opportunity to what they do best. And the Baal that they don’t kill will make mince meat out of them cutting their armor with ever weapon it has.

LONG FANGS X6 = AWESOME! BUT I would go with all HB or missile launchers, for this match up, missiles all the way, 5 shots, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 3 dead death company or a dead rhino or a dead dread. Sink the HUGE points savings into more choppy




My list for you.


WOLF PRIEST + runic armor

Wolf guard X8 + PF and FB

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER + MM, X armor

GREY HUNTERS X9 + WG PACK LEADER w PF, MELTA GUN. + Rhino + X armor

GREY HUNTERS X9 + WG PACK LEADER w PF, MELTA GUN. + Rhino + X armor

Dreadnought X armor + heavy flamer, MM

You may have some points left over I'm not sure I don't have my codex with me.

Tactics

The Blood claws I believe cut the Dreads STR to 6 so hit him with the MM from your dread and charge if he’s still alive and giggle as the furioso scratches away in impotence with STR6 VS FA12. Then pound the thing flat and move on.

Move the redeemer towards the assault marines but DO NOT get out, just pick your moment and use the redeemer cannons to wipe out half the unit then move to finish them with the wolf guard or another blast of the inferno cannon.

Put the long fangs in cover then USE the long fangs on turn one to cripple the DC rhino PRIORITY #1

After that blast the furioso if needed then predators all day till they are both dead.

If all goes well you’ll have the death company slogging across the board towards you

The assault squad dead, dying or rendered all but useless.

That leaves the honor squad with the librarian and a couple of predators to deal with, treat them like you would a unit of terminators (overwhelming fire the more saves he has to make the better)

Move the Land raider and the rhinos to support the long fangs cause that’s what they’ll go after as an easy kill so make sure you’re there to kill them if they get to the long fangs.

IF possible you want to hit the honor guard with rapid fire from both grey hunter units and the redeemer and then change them with the land raider wolf guard unit.

The combined fire should cripple the unit so that the wolf guard can make meat pies out of them.

And remember to rapid fire the grey hunters, with the wolf guard you have ld 9 to counter charge so you’ll hit just as hard even if you GET charged.

Keep the rhinos together for mutual support and keep the grey hunters in side and out of harms way until you can deliver a killer punch.

You may have to adjust the tactics a little if the honor guard are in jump packs because they will be a threat much sooner (in this case they become a priority for some missile fire and some rapid fire bolters.

If you work it right, (like a wolf pack) and separate his army into bite size pieces you’ll make easy meat out of him.

In the end if you’re plan goes swimmingly you’ll have to finally finish off the death company with the redeemers cannons and a final push by the wolf guard inside.

That’s the best I can do with a generic plan with out knowing what your opponent does in particular so if you post a battle report I’ll revise my tactics accordingly.

Just remember that "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy"

[wolflold]

Why dont you try to fit in a vindicator? Keep the redeemer and vindi in reserve, try to "lure" BA to deep strike in your lines, and then you can kill easy with redeemer and vindi. Also he wil try with everthing he got to take out the redeemer and vindi, so you can use your other units to counter charge :P.

[Torcano]

Blood Claws are not nearly worth it (ESPECIALLY vs. BA)

Think about it, even ignoring their rage (forget name right now!) they are far, far worse than Hunters. Even at H2H (supposed use) they are comparable at best to Hunters. Simply put, exchanging 1 WS for 1 Attack, then LOSING bolters and special weapons is awful.

It boggles my mind that the two units can be the same price, and one is just SO much better. GH can do everything BC can do, and way more. Why sacrifice a squad's worth of shooting for barely anything in return?

Even IF the Claws were WS4 they wouldn't be superior to the Hunters. Exchanging 10-20 S4 AP5 attacks for 10 WS3 S4 attacks will always be a terrible trade. And against BA (or other WS4 CC army) even worse, as your WS3s will have an even harder time than they would against other poor combatants.

Seriously, the only reason to take BC is if you have a Crusader and want to fill it up.

Just my 0.02 on the unit I dislike most in 40k.

[MarshalAdamar]

Blood Claws are not nearly worth it (ESPECIALLY vs. BA)

Think about it, even ignoring their rage (forget name right now!) they are far, far worse than Hunters. Even at H2H (supposed use) they are comparable at best to Hunters. Simply put, exchanging 1 WS for 1 Attack, then LOSING bolters and special weapons is awful.

It boggles my mind that the two units can be the same price, and one is just SO much better. GH can do everything BC can do, and way more. Why sacrifice a squad's worth of shooting for barely anything in return?

Even IF the Claws were WS4 they wouldn't be superior to the Hunters. Exchanging 10-20 S4 AP5 attacks for 10 WS3 S4 attacks will always be a terrible trade. And against BA (or other WS4 CC army) even worse, as your WS3s will have an even harder time than they would against other poor combatants.

Seriously, the only reason to take BC is if you have a Crusader and want to fill it up.

Just my 0.02 on the unit I dislike most in 40k.



I don't totally disagree but Blood claws power comes into it’s own with large numbers (there is no other way to use them or they suck)

But in number

Blood Claws = 15X4 attacks = 60 Attacks = 30 hits = 15 wounds = 5 dead marines

Grey Hunters = 10X3 attacks = 30 Attacks = 15 hits = 7.5 wounds and 2 dead marines

That’s a significant advantage and yes there are half again as many blood claws but that’s how the units shake out, you wouldn’t want to take 5 blood claws vs. well anything. Blood claws are not about a fair fight.

Drop in a power fist and a wolf guard pack leader with ANOTHER power fist and it’s an OUCH unit. Top it off with a wolf priest to give them preferred enemy and they are devastating.

But they have a bit of a glass jaw VS MEQ because they are going to GET hit on a 3+ so a Blood Angels Assault squad of 10 is going to lose half their numbers but they are going to inflict more damage then they would to say a Grey hunters unit.

Blood Angeles Assault squad 10X2 = 20 attacks = 15 hits = 7.5 wounds and 2-3 dead Blood claws

But the BC still win combat. So the combination of the fire from a land raider crusader and the BC charge should kill off the whole unit in one go or pretty close and that’s something you can’t really do with grey hunters.

So Blood claws have their place but it’s a little small out of the way place in the hold of a Land raider crusader

But Legoklods is talking about using a redeemer so that’s why I recommended switching to wolf guard for the redeemer because it only holds 12.

And that not enough BC, and in that case yes you are totally correct, 10 grey hunters is better than 12BC all day and twice on Teusdays.

But for only 3 more points then a Grey hunter you a ld 9 vet with 2 attacks base + 1 for two weapons and one on the charge so they are all that Blood claws are PLUS they continue to have 3 attacks a round even after the charge.

So for killing Blood angles, Wolf guard al the way.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Just a traitorous 2 cents here, but if you are having trouble with Blood Talon Furiosos and Death Company you've got three good choices for stopping them.

First: Thunder Hammers in close combat with the Furioso. A Power Fist has a 1 in 3 of damaging the Furioso. The T-hammer has the same chance but, and it's a big 'ol but, it will drop the dread to I1. That means you'll actually get to live long enough to attack him again. Obviously you might never get to swing at all if your squad is small and he charges but with a 10 man and a modicum of luck you've got a decent chance at knocking him out. Don't forget that it only takes one Weapon Destroyed result to reduce him to a giant Terminator. Unless he has both Talons functional he'll only get to to re-roll wounds with no bonus hits.

Second: Any other Dreadnought. Furiosos are monsters in CC but the Talons are only S6. An AV12 Dreadnought is damned near invulnerable so far as that's concerned. But keep them away from DC if the unit is larger than 5. You'll get stuck in that briar patch and eventually scratched to death.

Third: Terminators. We hate anything that can bring a solid number of Power Fist and/or Power Weapon attacks to bear since it negates the FNP from the Sanguinary Priest. And if the thing carrying it has a good save it's even worse. Being able to mix terminator Wolfguard in with the Grey Hunters is a sure fire way of making life miserable for a BA player. Now he has to carefully plan his assaults and make certain he can bring overwhelming force to bear instead of relying on FNP bubbles. But make sure you've got either lots of ablative wounds and/or a Storm Shield or 3 if you face the Furioso.

Hope something in there helps someone. It's all part of a one man crusade to beat down the "BA are too scary!" grumbling before it turns to the full scale hate of the 3rd edition Codex. ;)

[Col.Straken]

Here is what I would do with your list, not saying they are brilliant changes, or that you should follow them.

Ok people, I need your help so that I can kill Blood Angels.
This is list:
Wolf Priest with melta bombs (going in this) - Give him Beast Slayer, re-roll hits against T5/MC/Walkers
Land Raider Redeemer with some upgrades (with these guys: )
11 Blood Claws, 1 power fist. - Not tried these yet, but they look decent enough as is, maybe give one of them a flamer for a bit more threat
10 Grey Hunters 2*metal 1 power weapon. - This is solid, though I would switch the PW to the twin flamer squad, and put the fist here, these are your tank hunters! also MOW (it really is good)
in a Pod.
10 Grey Hunters 2*flamer 1 power fist. - Take a Flamer and a Melta, its still free! (as far as i can tell from reading the rules, never says they have to be the same weapon, just a second weapon for free) And take MOW (it works wonders)in a rihno.
5 wolf scouts with meltabombs. - with the points saved from the LF take 2 PW/Plas pistols, a Melta, and MOW
Long Fangs: 2*lascannons 3*plasma cannons. - Drop these down to 5 Missile Launchers, dirt cheap and effective in multiple rolls

total ~1500.

That is my two pence anyway, tried not to change any of the units, as they are your choices, but the upgrades can make a difference. Below is my 1500pt list that works well:

Logan

5 Termies, 1 SS, 1 Cyclone (goes with the LF, and Logan goes here) in a Pod

5 Termies, 1 SS, 1 Fist, 1 Asscan (all on seperate models) in a Pod

5 Scouts, Melta, 2 PW, MOW (these guys outflank and annoy/kill things)

10 Grey hunters, PF, Melta, Flamer, MOW in a Pod (come down and mop up after the termies)

10 Grey Hunters, PW, Plasma, Flamer, MOW in a Rhino (support the first drop and protect home base)

5 Long Fangs, 4 Missiles, Razorback (the LF sit around shooting while the Razorback provides cover fire for everything)

1500pts on the nose! 4 Scoring units (Logan makes the Termies scoring)

[Col.Straken]

Hope something in there helps someone. It's all part of a one man crusade to beat down the "BA are too scary!" grumbling before it turns to the full scale hate of the 3rd edition Codex. ;)

The Problem is it isn't "BA are too Scary!" its more of "This newest codex is too scary!" It bugs me, because it happens again and again with every new book.

It will be the same when the new Dark Eldar and Grey Knights books come out.

[incenerate101]

My general strat for killing off blood angels is to not get into close combat with them no matter what if they have a chaplain or two ( most angel armies do ) will rip you to shreds. Stay back and when you've thinned out the DC and Honor Guard considerablly from a distance id charge but still carefull Blood Angels are beasts in Close Combat. The Dreadnaught need to be brought down by your heavy weapons. Dont let it get close. And like the guy on the first page scouts with Melta bombs Behind-enemy-lines and mash up them tanks.

[Daemonette666]

Ok people, I need your help so that I can kill Blood Angels.
This is list:
Wolf Priest with melta bombs (going in this)
Land Raider Redeemer with some upgrades (with these guys: )
11 Blood Claws, 1 power fist.
10 Grey Hunters 2*metal 1 power weapon.
in a Pod.
10 Grey Hunters 2*flamer 1 power fist.
in a rihno.
5 wolf scouts with meltabombs.
Long Fangs: 2*lascannons 3*plasma cannons.

total 1500.

The idear is pretty obvious; Land raider kill infantry (and so does the cargo) rihno (with cargo) is somewhat flexible, the pod comes down and a tank dies, lascannons kill tanks, plasma cannons kill infantry.

This is what I was facing:
Librarian (able to use 2 powers-upgrade)
scouts with snipers.
10 assault marines with a priest.
10 man Death company in a rihno.
5 man honour guard.
2*baal prets with heavy bolters and assault cannons.
furioso dread with blood talons.


Battle report:
BA turn 1.
the long fangs died and never got to shoot anything.
SW turn 1.
When the grey hunters came down by pod they missed a baal pret. the grey hunters in the rihno was murdered by the furioso dread as I tried to assault it. The land raider failed at shooting the dread. my sky claws assaulted his assault marines and died.
BA turn 2
The land raider took a beating but prevailed. the death company was unloaded near by my the land raider. The hunters from the pod got shot by the prets they were ment to kill and then assaulted by his honour guard.
SW turn 2.
My scouts entered the battle and beated his scouts. The land raider once again failed at harming the dread.
BA turn 3
the pod and rhino was destroyed.
SW turn 3.
the land raider shot at a baal pret and failed (AGAIN).
BA turn 4.
The land raider felt the burn of a melta, was destroyed, the blood claws got assaulted and destroyed.

GG.

I was anihilated by turn 4, and honest to God I can't see any flaw in my tactic... so now gentelmen: what should I have in my list next time and how do I use it?
I can see quite a few flaws i your tactics.

Why did you try to kill his Dread and Baal Pred with your land raider which is designed to kill infantry? You should have tried to kill his Death company, maybe use your Multi-Melta on his rhino, and the rest of your weapons of the squad it was carrying.

I'd forget the drop pod, out that squad in a rhino as well, and put one of your meltas in and flamesr in each squad. Shoot his Predators from your rhinos with the meltas, or flamer infantry from the top hatch. Dismount and then shoot him. Use the Rhino to block his LOS to your infantry from his Baal Predators, and pop smoke.

Bad news about the grey hunters, they could have done some real damage. If you can get a long range weapons platform like a Whirlwind, or something Str 8, which can also use a blast template at reduced strength, then use that. He will have two longe range shooty targets to choose from. Charge everything as a solid formation (group) The land raider provides cover for the rhinos while they drive up.

Give the Blood Claws in the landraider some a Melta gun as well, just incase you meet a dreadnought or tank. I think the scouts should have been positioned to cover your long fangs. Snipe at his assault troops, and any infantry in the open or sitting in the cover of ruins, etc.

Your long fangs are relentless aren't they? If so, unless you know you are getting first turn, move them back out of sight, then advance them to shoot in your turn. This should atleast give them one turn to kill of some of his big nasties before he turns all his big guns at them. By then hopefully he will be distracted bu the Landraider and 2 rhinos.

[Daemonette666]

My general strat for killing off blood angels is to not get into close combat with them no matter what if they have a chaplain or two ( most angel armies do ) will rip you to shreds. Stay back and when you've thinned out the DC and Honor Guard considerablly from a distance id charge but still carefull Blood Angels are beasts in Close Combat. The Dreadnaught need to be brought down by your heavy weapons. Dont let it get close. And like the guy on the first page scouts with Melta bombs Behind-enemy-lines and mash up them tanks.
Space Wolves are not as close combat an army as Blood Angels are, so I agree with Incenerate on this one for you. Unless you outnumber him, and use a combination of shooting, and massed assault after you have whittled down his numbers.

I played a 2000 point game against BA with my CSM army, he took Mephiston, Sanguinor, 3 x Sanguinary priests incl Brother Corbulo, 2 assault squads with power weapons and meltabombs for Sgt + Meltagun in 1 squad, Plasma Gun in 2nd squad. 2nd squad sgt got the sanguinors blessing. fortunatley not one of his rolls for red thirst were successful. A Sternguard squad with Melta Gun and power weapons, Tactical Squad with missile launcher melta gun broken into 2 combat squads 2nd combat squad in drop pod, 2 x (fast) Vindicator. 5 Terminators with chainfist, twin light claws, combi-meltas, and so on.

I opposed him with Landraider + havoc Launcher + xtra armour, mounting 9 Khorne berserkers sgt has power weap + kharn as army hq attached. 2 rhinos - havocs and armour mounting 10 noise marines sgt power weap, doom siren, melta bombs + rest had sonic blasters (1 squad had a blast master). 1 x Defiler TL lascannon + CCW, 2 x Obliterators, 2 squads of Iron warrionrs - lascannon, icon chaos glory + sgt power weap.

We rolled annihilation and normal setup, and I gave him first turn. I did not know he had fast vindicators (should have read the rules for them first).

Turn 1: He fired with one and missed, flanked with other one. moved all except tacctical squad forward, and received a full salvoe from my Oblits and 2 CSM squad las cannon on mephiston - 2 wounds. defiler destroyed his half his sternguard through cover leaving 5 left. Landraider destroyed his 1st vindicator.

Turn 2: He hit my landraqider, roll reduced to a 1 (xtra armour), removed 1 of my havoc launchers, killed 2 CSM from iron warrior squad 1. His 2nd vindicator, shot my obliterators, but I made my cover saves, and only 1 trooper from CSM squad 2 next to them was killed. tried to bring in reserves, termies delayed from teleport mishap.

I moved defiler,advanced with my Land Raider popped smoke and dismounted Berserkers - assaulted his 1st assault squad. Rhinos dismounted both noise marine squads and shot up his remaining sternguard, and assault squad 2. Mephiston got lascannoned from both -1 wound Obliterators, and his 2nd vindie got shot up and destroyed by my CSM lascannons. Rhinos shot his characters in open, no success.

Turn 3: Mephiston and The Sanguinor move shoot me and get into Close combat with berserkers who have almost destroyed his assault squad 1 (thanks to kharn), and I kill 1 of my own troops. He charges my noise marines with assault squad 2 and stern guard. Noise marines drive off sternguard remaining trooper, and finish off Assault squad 2. His Termies arrive, and so does his drop pod squad who immobalise my defiler with melta gun

Defiler shoots at tactical squad just arrived. Obliterators shoot plasma cannons at termes kiling 3. CSM shoot at drop pod and Tactical squad with melta gun. I assault tactical tactical squad with 1 group noise marines and kill them all. The other squad joins now almost obliterated berserker squad, and kharn is killed by Mephiston (str 10). Landraider fails to damage mephiston (should have used shot to kill something else)

Turn 4 Termies destroy Defiler, the lone Sternguard with melta gun rallies and returns to battle shooting my landraider with his meltagun destroying it and himself in the blast. Noise marine squad 2 move to position to wait fto shoot corbulo, mephiston, the sanguinor, and assault marine sgt. Close combat kills off remaining noise marine squad 1 and last berserkers. enemy splits sanguinor with corbulo and the sanguinors chosen towards my obliterators, and mephiston into woods, assault sgt and sanguinor priest to near noise marines.

I kill off Mephiston with CSM lascannons, Pulp the termies with 2 Plasma cannons (obliterators) kill the assault squad sgt and Sang priest. fail to damage the sang priest, corbulo or Sanguinor with shooting from my noise marines, and then charge him

Turn 6: he rolls my noise marine squad up with the sanguinor and his Sanguinors chosen and corbulo, moves into cover and assaults my 2nd CSM squad, I kill corbulo, but he kills 7 of my squad who fail both leadership tests, and get away from him. I shoot his other combat squad up with a plasma cannon kiling 2 and that squad routs down to ground floor, and rapid fire at Sanguinor and sanguinors chosen with CSM, and Obliterator with twin linked flamer. Both die.

In the end I had 10 Chaos marines on the table, and 2 obliterator. He had 3 Spacemarines running away with 4 " to the edge of the table. I was close, but I edged it in.
My Defiler, the Obliterators with their plasma cannons,and the Havoc launchers won the game for me.

[BrPrometheus]

1. You violated your own rule on the land raider and shot him at the dread. Unless that is the only target your land raider should always be shooting at troops and manuevering to do so.
2. I am not sure if it was bad rolls or what but always remember to set your long fangs in cover and don't be ashamed to go to ground for a 3+ invulnerable. Hiding them begind a land raider for turn one as a user posted above is also a very good idea.
3. Threat assesment. You need to identify what is in your opponents list that you fear the most and work against that. The furioso dread are brutal I would have dropped the pod next to it to try and eliminate it with the melta shots. I am not sure how you armed your scouts but sending them after the soft bits of another scout squad is generally a waste. I would have preferred to go after one of his tanks.
4. MISSION. In your battle report you nver mentoned the mission. You can talk about armies all day long but remember the mission is all important. Perhaps you don;t have to move forward much the first turn. Your opponent only had 2 scoring units 3 if he sudivides the assualt squad. On games played with objectives destroy those and you should be good.
5. Missile luanchers on the long fangs. 5 of them are cheap and effective. That frees up a ton of points.

Good luck.

[Legoklods]

All right I've read all posts and I've made a new list based on NOTHING of what you've said and this works (better...).

5 Grey Hunters w. flamer. Razorback twin-las.

5 Grey Hunters w. flamer. Razorback twin-las.

5 Grey Hunters w. flamer. Razorback twin-las.

8 Wolf Guard, 3 of them leading the hunters, 5 in termie amour with combi-melta and claws.

5 Scouts, flamer and meltabombs for the lot.

Land Speeder Tornado - multimelta, heavy flamer (cause you just dont see them enough)...

Land Raider Redeemer (cause i've painted it and gives the temies something to ride in) w. multimelta, Extra amour, Hunter-killer

Wolf Lord w. thunderwolf, SS, frost weapon, melta bombs, beast slayer, talisman 2 wolves:eek:

1499.

[BlindGunn]

All right I've read all posts and I've made a new list based on NOTHING of what you've said and this works (better...).

LOL!

Sometimes, that's the best way to make a list! Congratulations! If it works for you - that's all that matters! :D

Just curious: Was there a particular reason you armed all the Grey Hunters with Flamers? It's an unusual choice for them.