Horus Heresy Adeptus Titanicus.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh yes. It's coming. 100% confirmed, as a banner was displayed at Warhammerfest. And here's what I've been able to find out about it so far. (This info is in the existing WF thread, but kind of got buried)

1. It's coming. It's not a planned project, but being actively worked upon.

2. The scale hasn't yet been decided. Scale and Buildings (for a Titan game without buildings is poo) are at the concept stage now. It may be larger than 6mm, as it gives them more to play with in terms of detail potential.

3. From the FW Seminar, confirmed they're looking to do all-new Titan Classes. Some hinted at or mentioned in the background, others completely new and left field.

And for now, that's my knowledge exhausted. There was no mention of Xenos Titans (it is a heresy game, after al) but pure speculation? If the HH edition sells well, it'll be expanded to give others a look in.

I'm very excited for this, as Adeptus Titanicus was one of my first proper GW games (so long ago now I can't recall if I was playing it before or after Space Hulk. That's proper long ago, that)

Oh, and for clarity....

This is definitely a miniatures game, and not a pootery game. There's some confusion out there on the interwebs about this. Adeptus Titanicus = Miniatures. Titan Legions is the pootery game one. We're getting both[/i]

Thought I'd clear that up now :)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Not really interested in titans, but would be good to see this. If it leads to them doing a larger Epic game with mass infantry ill be well for it. Wouldn't surprise me if they went 10mm as it gives you that extra room for detail.

[Kirsten]

sounds awesome, I'd like to see it being a lot bigger than epic scale. if you don't need many models, then it would be great to get them a good size with plenty of detail. dreadnought sized warhounds would do me.

[Gotthammer]

Hopefully not too much bigger, part of AT was that loadouts and range really mattered and if they go too large a scale that could become a problem. Also more expensive :p

But very excited to see what come out with this

[Kirsten]

well I have space and don't care about the rest of you :p

front page is reporting 8mm, warlord titan slightly larger than a contemptor. that works for me.

[Subs]

I also got the impression it was going to be in 8mm ("About the size of a 40K Dreadnought") I also got the impression the initial releases would be pretty quick as they're existing models scaled down and that FW where already thinking about how to introduce other stuff via expansions.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

8mm would be good, really hope it's a success as id love a full return to epic personally - with the current tech they could do amazing infantry that size. Titans are probably the best place to start though as people love that kind of stuff

[Mr Mystery]

Way moar informations here (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/adeptus-titanicus-the-return-of-epic-latest.html)

[Erik Setzer]

Making it 8mm would be bleh. Awful. A decision done more to make sure people with old collections can't use them and no one can use rivals' models or terrain. If they're resurrecting Adeptus Titanicus, there's no reason not to keep the original scale (and if their newfangled machines can't handle the old scale, then maybe they should think about getting better machines, but I doubt that's an issue). We see smaller companies who supposedly aren't making "the best miniatures in the world" showing they're capable of doing nice models in 6mm scale, why would Games Workshop be incapable of it?

Everything else sounds good. But if the scale changed, I'll probably avoid it, just because I don't feel like having to completely replace my entire collection. (Given my whole deal with buying multiple Ork armies, I'd probably buy a new army in 6mm anyway, and might even have to given how much of my stuff seems to have perished in a fire.) Just a principle thing. Change the scale just to screw with people and try to draw more money out, and I'll protest.

Leave it at 6mm, I'll probably drop a few hundred dollars before I stop myself. Adeptus Titanicus is the first game I really got interested in, and I still fondly remember drawing Titans while sitting in class (much to the dismay of teachers who didn't like a child drawing giant machines of death and destruction).

Just to be clear: Absolutely LOVE everything about this... except the scale rumors. That is indeed a dealbreaker for me, especially as it's obvious what it'd really be about, and my principles won't let me support that if it happens.

[grimmas]

Ooooo missed this one

Set in the Heresy, great just as Adeptus Titanicus should be. I was hoping for 10mm but 8mm should be fine it'll give the extra detail I'd like and I guess with Dropzone Commander being 10mm it was only to be expected.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm back, and with a bit of mind-vomit regarding the potential for Adeptus Titanicus.

As I mentioned in the top post, I properly cut my wargaming teeth on EPIC. It's my game. The one I'll always return to. And to my mind, it's never been a specialist game, and didn't deserve to be lumped in with the likes of Necromunda and Mordheim et al. It wasn't restricted in scale the way those games were. It had no upper scale limit. For those unaware, it had very, very similar stat lines to Warhammer Age of Sigmar - fixed to hit, then save modifiers, with each roll being a single D6.

So even massive games (4,000 points was my preference) rarely got bogged down with mindless dice rolling. I just rolled the right number of dice. For each that Hit, you made a corresponding save, modified if applicable. It was quick. It was fun.

Combat was a wee bit different. If memory serves, you both rolled 2D6, and added your CAF (Close Assault Factor). If you rolled higher than your opponent, then the model or stand was DED - so even though it was done one at a time, it was roll, compare, next. Nice and simple.

It was simply a superb system (barring the erroneous Epic 40,000, which I didn't take to. Epic Armageddon was good though!).

The models themselves might have been cheap, but for me, that just meant I spent more on them. Why buy a unit of Basilisks, when I can get a Company of Basilisks?

It just never sat right in Specialist Games.

Now....done right? Adeptus Titanicus Horus Heresy could be a major, major hit - to the point it has the potential to outsell 40k, in time, even if the prices are similar (this is FW we're talking about :) ).

Why? We play these games for many reasons, but one of the most common is the visual spectacle of seeing two fully built, ideally painted armies. 40k has a certain appeal there - but it pales next to Epic's grand scale. I mean, Apocalypse is good fun and all, but it gets well expensive, requires multiple players to be rounded up (herding Cats springs to mind), and for each of said players to have broadly similar collections in terms of unit variety (nobody likes being 1,500 Dave in Apocalypse, the one player that can't field a saucy formation or Super Heavy. You just get flattened).

Epic? All that's built in, mate. Well, except for rounding up opponents. You're on your own there, but at least you just need the one rather than multiples!

It's a small scale model for a massive scale of war. When Titans can be blown away with just a handful of well placed shots, you know you're gonna have a laugh. See those infantry? They're your game winners, mate. Sure they won't kill much, but they'll be the one's to hold your objectives. They'll be the ones forming a perimeter around your big stuff to prevent the enemy squashing it in combat. Fliers? Spot for Epic, mate. They can actually behave like Fliers.

There's also the psychological oddities of collecting. I've never been one to baulk at prices. Never have, probably never will. But even I can see the bizarre difference between spending say, £30 on 5 Ironjawz Brutes (gorgeous kit, BTW, and ace models!) and spending say, £45 on a WARLORD TITAN (Warlord Titan price currently plucked out the ether for example only. This is not an indication as the actual price!) It's what I think of as 'biggest thing in the game' syndrome. Archaon is £100, but I'm alright with that. He is, after all, the biggest thing in the game. Two boxes of Gore Gruntas, at £48 a pop...nearly the same price, but a bit more 'maybe I'll just use standard Boarboyz, yeah?'

The future is near. The future is Epic. At least, it is if you ask me. And to be fair, you didn't. But you did just sit and read through this, so more fool you :p

Oh, and if as suspected this is out around the end of the year (certainly their aim, production allowing)....well I might just spend my November bonus on it.....

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

couldn't agree more. For Mass-battle games, Epic was ALWAYS the way for me. I always thought it was cool you could spend a fiver and get an entire army in a box too - you'd get a 100 infantry and maybe some tanks, and I loved the sprues. They could make the infantry look incredible these days too. Things like collecting an entire chapter, warband or craftworld were actually feasable too. Always found it a shame when Epic 40k killed it and reduced it as it was the the 3rd core game at one time. I'd still love to see a self-contained war in heaven boxed game oneday, but i doubt they'd ever do anything that badass.

[Mr Mystery]

I suspect the price will be a good bit higher this time around - but seeing how much development has happened in producing their models, I'm good with that :)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

It will be, but the kits will likely be a lot better too. I expect each model will have some variant poses so it isn't like the old sprues where each unit only had a single pose model. They only need 5 different poses and you can mix and match to get the variety on bases. They'll probably be more detailed too, esp if they go for 8mm. I wonder if they will do all the infantry in one sprue like they used to, or if they will make multiple sprues for the infantry (perhaps basic troops on one sprue and specialised stuff on another?)

[Erik Setzer]

I'm not sure I'll be okay with the price, because it'll likely follow the current model of charging twice as much as they should and then package into boxes with deep "discounts" from the retail price still making nice profits but getting rubes to cheer them on for being so "kind." If they just started at the reasonable level, I'd be fine with it.

Epic scale is what they tried to turn 40K into, which has made 40K even more expensive than WFB was at its worst (given that both shared the terrible pricing scheme). I like Apoc matches plenty, absolutely love 'em, but I'd rather my standard 40K matches not include companies and multiple super-heavies. Put that where it belongs and should have always stayed, in good ol' Epic. 40K is your small level battles, Epic is your large scale battles, everything's nice and tidy. The return of Epic should get 40K back to where it was... though that'd also probably take 40K going through a revamp on par with the 3rd edition revamp. While I'm never keen on my books being obsolete, I'd be okay with my 40K rules collection needing to be replaced if it meant the game moved away from the default starting blocks of armies being on a company level, as they've shifted to in recent books. Seems the only way to correct that is taking a flamethrower to all the codices and supplements. Which would hurt, sure, but it'd improve 40K a lot, and lot them approach things from a proper perspective of Epic for big games, 40K for smaller games.

Granted, this is all coming from a gaming perspective, and, well... Oof.

[eldargal]

I never really liked Epic that much, didn't like how blobby the infantry looked but with modern design and production they might be able to get them looking nice even at 6mm scale. I have to admit I'd love to see how a modern aesthetic Dark Eldar army would look, just imagine some of the larger vehicles and monsters they could field... I don't have much interest in Horus Heresy Adeptus Titanicus anymore because after four years of pretty much nothing but ****ing HH from FW I'm completely over it, I'd be happy never to see another HH Marine release in my life.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I never really liked Epic that much, didn't like how blobby the infantry looked but with modern design and production they might be able to get them looking nice even at 6mm scale. I have to admit I'd love to see how a modern aesthetic Dark Eldar army would look, just imagine some of the larger vehicles and monsters they could field... I don't have much interest in Horus Heresy Adeptus Titanicus anymore because after four years of pretty much nothing but ****ing HH from FW I'm completely over it, I'd be happy never to see another HH Marine release in my life.

I hear you, but I think it was impressive they could do models that small at the time - but they really do not hold up to modern standards. If they are going 8mm then that should help the detail even more.

Imagine this though, you could collect an entire eldar craftworld and build the gaming table to be the actual craftworld!

[eldargal]

Yup at the time they were great, I quite liked playing the game I just never had as much enthusiasm for it as the larger scales and as the figures got older that enthusiasm decreased exponentially.

That is something I would do, yes.:p

[Erik Setzer]

Horus Heresy is the era the original Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine were set in. Had some nice art and stories. Still, it makes it harder to include all the 40K races, so it'd have to get out of the HH fast (like 2nd edition Space Marine/Titan Legions did).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yup at the time they were great, I quite liked playing the game I just never had as much enthusiasm for it as the larger scales and as the figures got older that enthusiasm decreased exponentially.

That is something I would do, yes.:p

Yeah, after painting the 500th monopose infantry figure it's hard to not to lose enthusiasm (and also have nightmares about endless amounts of said monopose figure that you are forced to paint, eh or maybe that was just me..) agreed on the HH setting too, I still think they should explore the war in heaven setting for epic. IF you are going to make different games, it would be more interesting to have them in different time periods I think.

[Charon]

If they are going 8mm then that should help the detail even more.

Don't really see the benefit.
A lot of players do not paint at all. A lot of players that do paint are barely able to paint a "big model".
Details really dont matter if they get plastered with an inch of paint.

[eldargal]

I know, and it makes sense to release it then expand it with 40k expansions to add xenos and more familiar races, I just personally have very little interest in it at present.

[Gotthammer]

after four years of pretty much nothing but ****ing HH from FW I'm completely over it, I'd be happy never to see another HH Marine release in my life.

Whilst I would normally agree with you... I <3 titans to an unreasonable degree so yeah you're wrong :p


Don't really see the benefit.
A lot of players do not paint at all. A lot of players that do paint are barely able to paint a "big model".
Details really dont matter if they get plastered with an inch of paint.

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0317/00/1398405342763.png

[eldargal]

I will probably change my mind when I see a platic filled box of titans and buildings.:p

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I just want 1000's of epic necrons myself.

[Gotthammer]

I will probably change my mind when I see a platic filled box of titans and buildings.:p

"probably"

[Mr Mystery]

You know, I can't for the life of me remember if they did confirm or deny a Calth type boxed set to launch the game....

Main thing I'm concerned about is a variety of weapons for the Titans. From launch.

And not in say, four packs where really I only want two of them.

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I never really liked Epic that much, didn't like how blobby the infantry looked but with modern design and production they might be able to get them looking nice even at 6mm scale. I have to admit I'd love to see how a modern aesthetic Dark Eldar army would look, just imagine some of the larger vehicles and monsters they could field... I don't have much interest in Horus Heresy Adeptus Titanicus anymore because after four years of pretty much nothing but ****ing HH from FW I'm completely over it, I'd be happy never to see another HH Marine release in my life.

There is an intention to cover other races if the game proves successful :)

[Erik Setzer]

I still think they should explore the war in heaven setting for epic.

That'd be an amusing setting for a BFG expansion. After all, the Talismen of Vaul were created to be weapons to kill C'tan. (Good job to the Imperium and Abaddon getting most of them smashed. That'll make it a bit harder to take down a C'tan once one of them reforms or wakes up.)

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There is an intention to cover other races if the game proves successful :)

That's problematic... There might be a lot of people who want something more than just Imperial Titans facing each other, and would hold out until other stuff is released. But if there aren't enough sales of the initial box, they won't produce the stuff people want to buy. There could be a lot of money left on the table, and the game might die out, just because people want to spend their money on non-Imperial stuff that's never released because they won't spend money on Imperial stuff they don't want. It's like telling people they either have to buy something they don't want, or they won't have a game.

Hopefully there'll be enough people who are interested in Imperials, but it's still iffy.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

That'd be an amusing setting for a BFG expansion. After all, the Talismen of Vaul were created to be weapons to kill C'tan. (Good job to the Imperium and Abaddon getting most of them smashed. That'll make it a bit harder to take down a C'tan once one of them reforms or wakes up.)

I just shamelessly want a threeway all-out battle between c'tan/necrons, old ones and their allies and enslaver plagues. it would be glorious and a refreshing counter to the horus heresy and 40k being imperial focussed. Instead you could show how different these civilizations were at the height of their powers and go into a lot of detail, enslaver plagues would give the setting the hardcore lovecraft aliens that is IMO badly needed (also at the height of their power) - you could have the old ones as non-humanoid aliens, as well as stuff like krork, hrud, the powerful eldar empire that dominated ect.

[Path Walker]

As something like 50% of total 40k sales are Imperials, they can easily judge any expected demand for other races and if its viable to produce them.

If it works and you sell x number of copies, you know you can expect to sell y% of Eldar because you have 25 years of sales data comparing sales of Imperium armies with Xenos.

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Don't really see the benefit.
A lot of players do not paint at all. A lot of players that do paint are barely able to paint a "big model".
Details really dont matter if they get plastered with an inch of paint.

More people paint and don't play than play and don't paint. You just don't see them because painting is a solo hobby. Models will always be the focus of GW.

[grimmas]

I've always found that extra detail makes models much easier to paint. Base coat and a wash usually gets a decent effect. At 8mm that effect will be even more pronounced. Especially as this is going to be Heresy based we con bet that after the Titans it'll be Astartes and basecoat and wash will work well. It always did with Space Marine back in the day in fact that was one of the draws for me you could knock out the chaff (infantry, tanks and the like) quickly and efficiently which would allow me to treat myself and spend a bit of time on the Titans

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

And many of the now 40k paint schemes were first laid down in Epic precisely because they were quick and simple.

For instance - squad markings on Rhinos. Painted on the top in a simple geometric pattern, ostensibly so Titan Crews had a simple visual reference for their infantry support.

Different coloured helms to denote squad type? First seen in Epic - So Blood Angels? Red for Tactical, Yellow for Assault, Blue for Devastator. Originally Epic schemes. Even Dark Angels had that - Grey Helmets for Assault Troops is one that sticks in my mind because I painted a bunch.

Epic scale is dead easy to paint to a reasonable level. And that includes Titans.

[grimmas]

All true

I'm also hoping that, being a little larger, when the infantry come out they don't all look like they're ankle deep in mud when I base them.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

If a talentless hack like me can paint epic to a decent standard then I think most people probably can do it well. Amazing what basic washes and drybrushing can do. It's a far more forgiving scale than 28mm I find.

The easiest to paint though is 2mm ;)

[Kirsten]

I don't understand all this talk about infantry, why would you want anything other than titans? :p

[Mr Mystery]

Because they go SQUISH!

[Kirsten]

titans titans and more titans. go big or go home. I would accept tanks if they are decent quality sculpts.

[Mr Mystery]

Time for a Wishlist, yo!

Ça Plan Pour Moi, as Polyster David once sang....

1. Set Titan configurations. I'm talking Nightgaunt and Nemesis class Warlord Titans. Each with different abilities. Lighter armament hard points? Fast and more manoeuvrable Titan type stuff.

2. Detailed damage tables. Let us see how a God Machine dies. Lost crew. Shattered weapons. MIU feedback. Reactor Breech. Perhaps not as roll intensive as the original, but at least that we saw in Titan Legions.

3. Appreciable differences between the base chassis - so not matter how lightly equipped a Warlord might be, it still couldn't outpace a fully armed Warhound.

4. Orders system. Can't for the life of me quite remember if Adeptus Titanicus had that, but Titan Legions did. Committing to an activation pattern is a real strategic challenge for a Princeps!

5. Non-Imperial Titans sooner rather than later, pls.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

infantry can be big in it's own way too though, like when you have litterally thousands of infantry. I really should get back to my 6mm flying polyp army as I wanted that to have massive titan sized lovecraftian war engines and stuff, supported by hundreds of polyps.

[grimmas]

For me it's because I'm a megalomaniac and extreme casualties are important and you don't get them without infantry 😝

Has there been any word on the level of detail I'm the rules, I'd like them to go all Battletech on the Titan detail. I always thought the overly abstract nature of the Titan rules in Epic 40K was its big failing ( the attraction did work for everything else though)

[Erik Setzer]

titans titans and more titans. go big or go home. I would accept tanks if they are decent quality sculpts.

I want to see Titans vs. Bio-Titans, Pacific Rim style. (After all, the movie's line is "Go big or go extinct.")