Is a 40k movie becoming an inevitability?

[Mr Mystery]

Speculation! Dontcha just love it??

No rumours here. Just aforementioned speculation.

See, Warcraft is getting a movie (though to be honest, it's looking a bit ropey SFX wide). Marvel and DC are taking the box office.

And we're seeing GW branching out into more general merchandising - making the most of their IP through various leases and that - not least of which are their Video Games.

Seems to me that the lure of a movie franchise deal can't be far off. Depending entirely on the deal they can get, there's an absolute poo-load of money in even a half decent movie adaptation.

Now, popular rumour has it that GW have had film companies sniffing around in the past. From a producers stand point, any background setting as rich as 40k's has a fair chunk of your work done for you. It's fully formed, well known, and well loved. Yet the stumbling point in the past is, allegedly that GW want to retain all merchandising rights - and they're not keen on stuff like a McHorus Burger with Emperor Fries etc.

Given how financially important merchandise sales are to the overall profitability of a movie, that's a really big stumbling block to get such things made.

As I pointed out earlier though, GW's attitude to licensing appears to softening - potentially to the point where they've got a more realistic appetite for such things. And, with a successful movie.....there really is an awful lot of cash up for grabs.

Example? LotR. GW did exceptionally well out that trilogy. (Rumour has it they projected to recoup their outlay by the launch of Return of The King, but it actually happened half way through Fellowship). So a good movie can get people playing the game. Flip side of course would be The Hobbit trilogy....films were by no means a flop, but they didn't have the same success for GW's game.

So it's far from a risk free thing - but is it a risk worth taking?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'd rather not and I don't think it would work out personally (would probably be some corny CGI fest that ruins the backround) I think a netflix/amazon series would be better and it would probably be more accurate and retain the gritty feel. It needs to be brutal, r-rated and stylised I think.

[YorkNecromancer]

No, absolutely not and never.

It just won't happen. There are many reasons for this:


Money is the biggest stumbling block. These days, a film Hollywood defines as 'low budget' still costs as much as the GDP of a third world nation. 40K needs special effects; it can't deliver those on a shoestring. And that's before you factor in marketing costs. For a film to recoup its costs, it needs massive, massive levels of marketing. GW's word-of-mouth approach just isn't going to cut it.
Then there's the source material. It's sad to say it, but 40K is so outdated it hurts. Everything about it is just old news, from the lack of women, to the lack of ethnic diversity to the haircuts. That's going to be a very, very hard sell to non-fans - if not an impossibility.
There's the issue of age rating. 40K needs to be R-rated, but that means 90% of the fans won't be able to see it, because 40K's fans are, in the majority, young. Look at the terrible trouble 'Dredd' had finding an audience. Yeah, it's become a cult classic because it's awesome, but it made almost nothing on release because of this exact problem.
There's also the money, which is such a severe problem I'm mentioning it twice. GW is notoriously risk-averse, and I can't see them ponying up the kind of money needed for a gamble like this.



Will they do another cheapo CG thing like 'Ultramarines: The Movie'? Almost certainly.
Will it be crap? Well, the last one featured a full hour of real-time marching for Macragge.
Will it drip with the very worst cliches without ever really getting to the core of 40K's awesomeness?

*sigh*

Of course it will.

Because it'll be done on the cheap by a collection of people with no clue and fanboys who are too desperate to cram in the OHMYGODHOWAWESOME thing they love without the slightest thought as to whether or not it'd make for a good story or not.

At best - at the very best - we'll get something which opens with Brian Blessed reading some cod-Shakespeare nonsense over a black screen as the white text scrawls up, intoning deeply about how This Is All Very Serious, and for the briefest of moments we'll squee with delight because BRIAN BLESSED! until the film actually starts, and it's just a hideous live-action thing where a bunch of fat, ugly extras run around a quarry in Wales, dressed in chainmail and leather trenchcoats which bear no resemblance to any actual 40K army, saying 'For The Emperor' and ending up fighting some skinny Goth kid who's stolen his mum's makeup and painted an eight-pointed star on his face. The film will expect us to take this 'Cradle of Filth' reject seriously as a chaos champion, despite his obvious shortcomings in literally every aspect of life, from his rat-tail mullet to his scratty beard. It will be the most sad, pathetic, tawdry, embarrassing thing any of us ever watch and we will watch it anyway because of course we will, it's 40K, we're so starved for 40K films we still watch those hideous cut-scenes from old games. And we'll get to the end and the credits will roll over that horrible booming, anonymous rubbish GW play over every one of their videos and we'll just sit there with tears running down our faces, pretending not to know why we're crying, when we do. Of course we do.

It's because life is a pointless, meaningless trudge from cradle to grave; because everyone we ever know or love will die; because nothing will last, not our children or our achievements, not any single piece of us; because ultimately, the relentless grind of the aeons will pass by blackly without any mark that we were ever here, personally or as a species, and so not a single thing we do in this life matters. Nothing we ever do has the slightest import or meaning, and the film we just watched? This two and a half hour piece of overblown crap that'll end up on the bottom shelf of the Asda DVD section for £3 on release just proved it. Because it's not a film: it's a single monochromatic tombstone, bereft of meaning, mocking the entirety of human achievement, laughing at even the concept of beauty, wonder or hope.

...

And the saddest thing? Even that won't happen. There will never be a 40K film, and that's probably for the best, because 40K is, to all intents and purposes, unfilmable.

...

So yeah, you might say I'm a little pessimistic in my outlook about the possibility of a 40K film.

[Mud Duck]

Yeah, just a little York.

Yes it could be filmed, and yes it could be great. But why not? As York noted the concepts are dated, most everything in 40K has made it into film in one way or the other. But I think that 'hardest' part would be to get a more general audience too go and spend money to see the movie. Would I? Yes I think that I would; but that's just me.

[Wolfshade]

There was always talk of turning the blood quest into a comic and it got some shots mocked up before GW pulled it as the CG wasn't good enough.

I always thought that Gaunt's Ghosts would make a most excellent series of films, Sharpe in SPAAAACCCEEE! essentially. Sean Bean for Gaunt!

[Mr Mystery]

I don't know if would have to be a CGIfest.

Much like the key to Marvel's success is the sheer diversity of the setting - plus, any budget would come out of the film studio's pocket, not GW's.

[grimmas]

The LoTR have shown us that the capability to handle the special affects exists it'll be no problem. Also the Grimdark needs to be embraced rather shied away from. Any Hollywood PC tinkering will turn it into a joke, think Dredd and the Hunger Games rather than Judge Dredd and Starship Troopers.

Oh and needs to not be about Space Marines, they should be in it but it needs to be "about" actual humans the Astartes are just to far removed from human emotions and goals to carry the film b

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'd just do an Inquisitor TV Series. Amberley Vail would be my first choice. Ten hour long episodes, a few of those as 2-parters, set each story on a different planet so we can have a better look at imperial society. You could have space marines too, they could be Deathwatch.

Definitely avoid fanboys writing it, wouldn't want it to be the televised fanfic dr who's been the past decade after all.

[Psychosplodge]

Lets face it, unless it's another CGI horror show the only way to do it either Space Sharpe, or The Inquisitor like AX mentioned. Both of which lend themselves better to a series rather than a film, but also allow them to keep the effects to a minimum and it's mostly going to be humans vs humans.

Yorkie has the right of it though it's a limited audience and to maximise the grim dark you lose the wider younger part.

I don't doubt someone in hollywood is probably interested but I've every expectation if it happens it'll be an awful car crash that will make us all cringe while watching it.

[Charistoph]

And the saddest thing? Even that won't happen. There will never be a 40K film, and that's probably for the best, because 40K is, to all intents and purposes, unfilmable.

If it is not filmable, you couldn't make video games taken from different perspectives.

The biggest problem with 40K is that outside of the fans, very very few people have even heard of it. So a lot will have to be done to help bring people in to the story to be part of it. It's doable, just look at what Star Wars was able to do with just A New Hope (not its title at the time), but it is very difficult.


I'd just do an Inquisitor TV Series. Amberley Vail would be my first choice. Ten hour long episodes, a few of those as 2-parters, set each story on a different planet so we can have a better look at imperial society. You could have space marines too, they could be Deathwatch.

Sounds Who-ish. I rather approve. Both Warhammer and Who are British, and the Who series have definitely shown that mini-series length stories inside a regular series.

[Cactus]

GW's Space Marines were largely modeled after Robert A. Heinlein's novel, "Starship Troopers." The "Starship Troopers" movie aesthetic looks more like Imperial Guard (and Tyranids.)

So, yes, I think it can be done well.

[Psychosplodge]

I thought the starship troopers power armour was more like the Tau's battlesuits?

[grimmas]

I thought the starship troopers power armour was more like the Tau's battlesuits?

That's how I read it. I've always thought the Starship Troopers link is a bit of a misnomer, the only really similarity is that their Armour both has powered joints they a re both very different in form, function and concept. Dune is the real inspiration, that not to say they didn't borrow the idea of Power Armour from Starship Troopers but only in a loose sense.

Also on the SFX point anyone who has watched Edge of Tomorrow will know it will look fine. Although I suspect the suits are more Ork mega Armour rather than Power Armour they still look cool

And as and extra the MIs Armour is much more powerful than either SM Power Armour or Tau Battlesuits, they carry Nuclear weapons for a start. It is much more similar in concept to Tau Battlesuits though.

[Mr Mystery]

Though Starship Troopers does pose the question - could 40k be made into anything other than a somewhat camp pastiche?

I mean, the background itself is very grimdark. Catholic Space National Socialists really doesn't do it justice. My fear is that it can all too easily become a self parody when committed to celluloid - more 1960's Batman than 2015 Daredevil.

Let's consider the iconic weapon - the Bolter. Astartes aren't shy of pumping that trigger. That's an awful, awful lot of enemies coming apart under the barrage of mass reactive shells. And if you want to do Cinema Bolters right, you can't downgrade that damage - indeed the reason Astartes favour the Bolter over other weapons is that sheer psychological impact. Your cover is blaster apart, and what would be a fleshwound from say, an Autogun, instead becomes a limb blown clean off.

How do you film that without it becoming inherently ridiculous?

[Psychosplodge]

That's another reason Space Marines would make a bad subject choice for it.

Guard vs chaos would be easiest by far.

[Mr Mystery]

I'd prefer an Inquisitor movie to be honest.

It reduces down the amount of necessary CGI, and you can do a lot with practical sets for relatively little money (two or three, bit of redressing here and there and you can have five or six).

Show the necessary ruthlessness of The Imperium, and how utterly dystopian it is. Keep it small and focussed. If that film does well, you can increase the scale a bit in the next film (many props from the first can be reused etc).

You can do a lot with a single Inquisitor and their goons!

[Psychosplodge]

True. But like mentioned before, both really lend themselves better to a series.

[grimmas]

The Astartes would have to used as a device rather than character. They need to treated as they are supposed to be in the fluff rarely seen mythic beings that despite the propaganda inspire Fear rather than anything else. They'd need to be used in moderation for shock value, think saving private Ryan when the Americans get shot off the Tiger Tank by the 20mm gun, a moment of extreme violence to forward the plot in some way.

I'm less worried about the parody thing film makers have learnt that dark works in SciFi. You'd need the right director but these plenty about who can grasp the concept. It wouldn't need to be 18 rated either there's no need to show any sex and we know violence is considered much more acceptable on film.

[Psychosplodge]

But I want an awkward sex scene

[grimmas]

Well thats what the Internet is for.

[Psychosplodge]

I thought it was for cats and tubes?

[Mr Mystery]

Well that would be a pretty awkward example of said scene, yes.

For me, a story about an Inquisitor needs to be reverse Firefly - kick off with a proper movie to establish the galaxy, then pick up with an ongoing series, ideally on Netflix because binge watching.

[Erik Setzer]

So it's far from a risk free thing - but is it a risk worth taking?

Marvel's owned by Disney, who has a load of money and a movie production studio. DC has a load of money and rakes in a ridiculous amount each year. WoW, even if it was just 5 million subs, would be bringing in $75M per month, plus sales of expansions, in-game purchases (mounts, pets, some other cosmetic stuff), and that's before you add in Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm... and that's not even all of Blizzard's lineup, but let's not forget Blizzard is now connected to Activision, who make obscene amounts reskinning Call of Duty every year.

Point is, these are companies that pretty much make more in a month than GW does in a year. They've got the money to do this stuff, and the reach. Especially in places like the US, people are more likely to know what World of Warcraft is than Warhammer if they're not nerds.

It'd be fun, but given that a movie to do it justice would cost more to make than GW brings in during a year, I don't see it happening.

[Charistoph]

Show the necessary ruthlessness of The Imperium, and how utterly dystopian it is. Keep it small and focussed. If that film does well, you can increase the scale a bit in the next film (many props from the first can be reused etc).

You can do a lot with a single Inquisitor and their goons!

The hard part is bringing it across that as brutal as the Imperium is, the alternative is far, far worse.

Leave the Tau out of the equation till much later. But show Genestealer Cults that make Aliens seem like ants at a picnic. Chaos Marines and Daemons be mixture of all the devil-possession movies and Event Horizon combined. Orks that only want to brutally smash humanity in a way that would leave the Gorillas of Planet of the Apes jealous. Eldar that would either leave them as enslaved dogs or tortured playthings for their amusement far worse than any Vampire utopia.

Then after a few movies of that, bring in the Tau. They seem bright and shiny and hopeful. Then dash all the hopes with mass mind control operations and sterilization pograms that leave humanity a shell of a discriminated minority.

[Defenestratus]

It'd be fun, but given that a movie to do it justice would cost more to make than GW brings in during a year, I don't see it happening.

What does GW's bottom line have anything to do with the price of peanuts?

GW would license its IP (which isn't going to happen because they have draconian conditions) to a production company. Production company assumes cost of creating movie with licensed IP. GW gets licensing fee which may or may not consist of a percentage of revenue generated from ticket sales.

[Erik Setzer]

What does GW's bottom line have anything to do with the price of peanuts?

GW would license its IP (which isn't going to happen because they have draconian conditions) to a production company. Production company assumes cost of creating movie with licensed IP. GW gets licensing fee which may or may not consist of a percentage of revenue generated from ticket sales.

It's mainly a comparison tool... You're trying to make money off of something that's very niche, as opposed to things with widespread appeal. The company being licensed to do the movie would have to be risking a lot of money. If you have someone like Marvel, DC, or Activision-Blizzard, you know their properties aren't as niche. And it still can't be stressed enough that Marvel is part of Disney, who's been making movies for a long time, and the recent run of Marvel movies making loads of money is coming from a company who has their own studio and knows what they're doing, they're not licensing it out.

I'm not taking shots at GW here, just trying to point out that you can't say that they should be able to get a movie done just because much larger companies with wider appeal are able to do so.

We're in a niche hobby and G-Dub likes to be even more niche. That's not helping.

There's another thing to consider here: treatment of IP. Marvel's cinematic universe is different from the comics. The stuff Marvel hasn't gotten back has gone pretty far off the reservation in places (hello, latest Fantastic Four!), and they can't do much because the rights to do that were signed away before Disney took over. DC movies are similarly different from the comics. And Warcraft, as much as I'll go see it and probably enjoy it, is VERY different from the source material. These are changes made to suit a different audience. Now imagine Games Workshop signing on to let a studio and the writers and director create their own story and possibly change the look of iconic GW races or armies, or the story of nations. GW is extremely protective of their IP. How okay would they be with the kind of changes being made in Marvel and DC movies, and Warcraft?

Look at the damage done by the Fantastic Four movies... Marvel pretty much had to retire them from the comics because Fox destroyed them. Marvel does well when they're in charge, but Fox and Sony have shown what licensing your property out-of-house can lead to.

[Defenestratus]

None of the relative popularity stuff really matters truth be told. Hollywood greenlights a bunch of seemingly random stuff. There's enough scifi and fantasy themes embedded into the 40k universe that it would have enough to stand on its own.

As for the abuse of IP, I get it. However, if a movie comes out that isn't true to the original material (and lets be honest, with 40k it won't ever be) then oh well, no skin off my back. The hobby and the universe are GW has made them, not what Hollywood would remake it as.

At least to those of us that know it now.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

If you go with the inquisitor tv show idea - you could have genestealer cults, chaos cults, daemons, enslavers, xenos cults and minor xenos. Some of the minor aliens that wouldn't otherwise fit the wargame would be perfect for episodic tv too. You could save the "best" stuff for finales and longer stories (eg chaos marines) - theres less chance of it happening than there is of me making my own SF web series based around my beloved floating aliens (and I actually stand a small chance at doing that lol)

Animation might be a better medium and if it stayed true to the art styles in the codex books ect, could look pretty nice and stylised too.

[Erik Setzer]

As for the abuse of IP, I get it. However, if a movie comes out that isn't true to the original material (and lets be honest, with 40k it won't ever be) then oh well, no skin off my back.

We might be fine with it (though plenty of folks wouldn't be, as seen by some fan reactions to Warcraft or parts of Marvel and DC movies), but I'm not sure GW'd take kindly to people taking their IP in a direction they don't like. I'd imagine that's one of the key sticking points to them getting any kind of movie or anything done.

It'd be nice to see a movie, but I just don't see it happening.

[Cactus]

And as and extra the MIs Armour is much more powerful than either SM Power Armour or Tau Battlesuits, they carry Nuclear weapons for a start. It is much more similar in concept to Tau Battlesuits though.

I still imagined Space Marine armor (some with jump packs) rather than Tau. Plus, they came down in drop pods...

[grimmas]

I still imagined Space Marine armor (some with jump packs) rather than Tau. Plus, they came down in drop pods...

Good point on the drops pod, they were individual pods, but the concept is the same, I will give Starship Troopers that one 🙂. The reason I say Tau Battlesuits is because the MI armour provides the strength/toughness like the Tau it's very much the suit providing the oomph. Where's as with Astartes it more a case of it the armour carrying it own weight (all be it with a bit of increased performance) and the strength and power is mainly the Astarte's own.

I do get where you are coming from though.

[Charistoph]

Good point on the drops pod, they were individual pods, but the concept is the same, I will give Starship Troopers that one 🙂. The reason I say Tau Battlesuits is because the MI armour provides the strength/toughness like the Tau it's very much the suit providing the oomph. Where's as with Astartes it more a case of it the armour carrying it own weight (all be it with a bit of increased performance) and the strength and power is mainly the Astarte's own.

I do get where you are coming from though.

In terms of mobility and weapon options, the Mobile Infantry suit is far closer to a Crisis Suit than anything a Space Marine uses. By the end of one of the engagements, the protaganist has used more guns than a Crisis Suit has options. Part of that is because of what is inside.

An Astartes IS a weapon. His armour is very capable, don't get me wrong, but it is still just to protect the weapon of the Astartes himself. A proper Movie Marine Astartes without Armour would still be hella effective against a Hormagant squad.

Compare that to the Mobile Infantryman without his suit. He's dang good, even possibly Astartes level in skills, but not in speed, strength, or resilience. But put him in his suit, and he outruns Assault Marines, outshoots a Devastator Squad, and takes blows that even an Astartes in Armour may not be able to take (hard to say, there is a vast tech difference in both time and loss).

[grimmas]

Yes that's what I was getting at.

[Cactus]

In terms of mobility and weapon options, the Mobile Infantry suit is far closer to a Crisis Suit than anything a Space Marine uses. By the end of one of the engagements, the protaganist has used more guns than a Crisis Suit has options. Part of that is because of what is inside.

An Astartes IS a weapon. His armour is very capable, don't get me wrong, but it is still just to protect the weapon of the Astartes himself. A proper Movie Marine Astartes without Armour would still be hella effective against a Hormagant squad.

Compare that to the Mobile Infantryman without his suit. He's dang good, even possibly Astartes level in skills, but not in speed, strength, or resilience. But put him in his suit, and he outruns Assault Marines, outshoots a Devastator Squad, and takes blows that even an Astartes in Armour may not be able to take (hard to say, there is a vast tech difference in both time and loss).

Sure, I see your points as well.

It probably stems from the fact that I read Starship Troops and played Marines years before Tau were released. That's just my life experiences shaping what I see because I made that association long before anime models invaded the GrimDark.

Marines = Starship Troopers
Tau = nearly endless supply of anime/manga power-suit mecha.

[Charistoph]

Sure, I see your points as well.

It probably stems from the fact that I read Starship Troops and played Marines years before Tau were released. That's just my life experiences shaping what I see because I made that association long before anime models invaded the GrimDark.

Marines = Starship Troopers
Tau = nearly endless supply of anime/manga power-suit mecha.

Possibly. Like I see very little anime mecha in Tau, probably because of how it was shaped. To me it is closer to Heavy Gear and non-anime Battletech esthetics, and very little classic anime feel.

However the same anime design esthetic if very prevalent in the Eldar.

But I was in to anime a long time before I was following Warhammer, and a Crisis Suit looks and operates nothing like a Macross Valkyrie or Gundam. Even the Zakus and Leos share little feel with them. In order for the Battlesuits to feel properly anime, they would all be FMCs, carry Death Ray Beams as well as a pair of Assault Cannons, and a sword that would chop an Imperator in half if you rolled a 6 and is twice as tall as the suit itself.

While I did have some exposure to Warhammer in high school, Tau were out before I really started looking in to the game.