ArD BoyZ 101 - How to Beat Leafblower IG

[bonedale]

Fooled you, I don't have the answer. But I was hoping to start a anti-leafblower tactic thread for all those folks heading to ArdBoyz.

Even if the new BA dex distracted people from the mech IG monster, I think it's fair to say if you plan on going, and plan on succeeding, you need to be prepared for the leafblower.

What we don't need in this thread is mathhammer, theories, or delusional ideas. For example, my GKs will simply use shrouding to get close and crush them.

I want to hear about real world successes, even if it didn't result in a win. Afterall, this is a game with dice. But what have people done that opened the door to victory. What units proved effective? What ideas failed big time?

Doesn't matter what army either. Just a general anti-leafblower tactic thread.

[DarkLink]

For example, my GKs will simply use shrouding to get close and crush them.


Uh... you do know the average roll on shrouding is 31.5". Meaning if you get within 30" of him, he can reliably see you. And since GKs have very few bodies, and are no tougher than normal Marines... Just saying you might need to rethink that strategy. Medium-short range firepower is not something that Guard lack.

[Eusebius Rex]

Uh... you do know the average roll on shrouding is 31.5". Meaning if you get within 30" of him, he can reliably see you. And since GKs have very few bodies, and are no tougher than normal Marines... Just saying you might need to rethink that strategy. Medium-short range firepower is not something that Guard lack.

I think he was saying that was a "theory" or "delusional" idea. :D

Hince:

What we don't need in this thread is mathhammer, theories, or delusional ideas. For example, my GKs will simply use shrouding to get close and crush them.

But since, I didn't know why it was a bad idea, thank you for explaining it.

My own contribution to the topic is a BA 100% DoA list. I play one and though have not played a "true" leafblower, I have played Mech IG with mystics and was pretty successful. It doesn't come w/out loss, but being able to drop 8-10 5 man teams of assault Marines or Vanguard that can melta or assault approximately the same in densely packed transports and tanks is pretty cool. you have to drop in a ring around the IG chimera wall, mainly on the flanks, but you'll get first shots at them and hopefully create cover saves for most of your troops. The issue is that blast templates will cover whole squads and if not in cover they are dead. But what survives for the next turn can really get in close and assault.

Course, I have lots of problems with real assault list like Nids and SW, so this isn't an all comers. But disposable assault squads are great for melta'ing IG. You also have to accept that even with DoA, something will roll that singel 6 on the scatter die that pumps you into a unit of off the board. My scoring units don't last long...thems the breaks...

[Judge]

You don't want mathematics (proof), theory (intelligent guesses), or delusions (well, I guess ya got me there)?

I killed a Carnifex in melee with two regular Dark Reapers once. Based on that experience, I'd recommend Dark Reapers in hand to hand.

You want effective anti-IG leaf blower fed by experience? Play Squats. Worked wonders in 2nd edition.

[bonedale]

Uh... you do know the average roll on shrouding is 31.5". Meaning if you get within 30" of him, he can reliably see you. And since GKs have very few bodies, and are no tougher than normal Marines... Just saying you might need to rethink that strategy. Medium-short range firepower is not something that Guard lack.

I was kidding about shrouding, I would never rely on it in any form.

[bonedale]

You don't want mathematics (proof), theory (intelligent guesses), or delusions (well, I guess ya got me there)?

I killed a Carnifex in melee with two regular Dark Reapers once. Based on that experience, I'd recommend Dark Reapers in hand to hand.

You want effective anti-IG leaf blower fed by experience? Play Squats. Worked wonders in 2nd edition.

I wasn't looking for mathhammer for a couple of reasons. One, mathhammer doesn't take into consideration missions, terrain, sequence of events, or personal experience. Can GKs pop a chimera with S6 weapons, yes, will they get a chance, probably not.

I am looking for people who have faced the mech IG and had successes. Maybe it was deployment, maybe it was speed, maybe it was just luck.

I've been playing 40k since RT days and have done mathhammer out the whazoo. But in the end, you know as well as anyone, it takes about 250 flips of a coin to get a 50/50 result.

I have not faced the mech IG list. And I think many more haven't either. But based on its success in the tourney scene, I want to read some actual experience facing it. Or even leafblower players that have seen things work against them.

[bonedale]

My own contribution to the topic is a BA 100% DoA list. I play one and though have not played a "true" leafblower, I have played Mech IG with mystics and was pretty successful. It doesn't come w/out loss, but being able to drop 8-10 5 man teams of assault Marines or Vanguard that can melta or assault approximately the same in densely packed transports and tanks is pretty cool. you have to drop in a ring around the IG chimera wall, mainly on the flanks, but you'll get first shots at them and hopefully create cover saves for most of your troops. The issue is that blast templates will cover whole squads and if not in cover they are dead. But what survives for the next turn can really get in close and assault.

I would like to see a good battle report of the BA DOA list against Darkwynn's leafblower. I know he tabled it, but I think it would be interesting to see.

[BuFFo]

Just a general anti-leafblower tactic thread.

...

No such thing.

What made the 'leafblower' anything worth spit was the guy behind the models, Darkwyn.

Stop chasing this mythical Leafblower. It does not exist.

Now what does exist is Mech IG.

I do not meant o sound harsh, but if you want to take 'Ard Boyz seriously, you need to get your head out of this fantasy that lists wins games. This isn't Magic the Gathering where net decking works. 40k Is about the general's ability to understand the rules and adapt turn by turn to the ever changing situation.

Want to know how to beat IG?

http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?

Snoop around there and find anything you ever wanted to know about how to beat IG.

[Eusebius Rex]

I would like to see a good battle report of the BA DOA list against Darkwynn's leafblower. I know he tabled it, but I think it would be interesting to see.

Have they played one yet? I would like to see it, too. Most of thier BA stuff has been all mech'd out and nothing against IG at all.

[fuzzbuket]

...

No such thing.

What made the 'leafblower' anything worth spit was the guy behind the models, Darkwyn.

Stop chasing this mythical Leafblower. It does not exist.

Now what does exist is Mech IG.

I do not meant o sound harsh, but if you want to take 'Ard Boyz seriously, you need to get your head out of this fantasy that lists wins games. This isn't Magic the Gathering where net decking works. 40k Is about the general's ability to understand the rules and adapt turn by turn to the ever changing situation.

Want to know how to beat IG?

http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?

Snoop around there and find anything you ever wanted to know about how to beat IG.



WOOHOO
some one with common sense :D

[Dingareth]

...

No such thing.

What made the 'leafblower' anything worth spit was the guy behind the models, Darkwyn.

Stop chasing this mythical Leafblower. It does not exist.

Now what does exist is Mech IG.

I do not meant o sound harsh, but if you want to take 'Ard Boyz seriously, you need to get your head out of this fantasy that lists wins games. This isn't Magic the Gathering where net decking works. 40k Is about the general's ability to understand the rules and adapt turn by turn to the ever changing situation.

Want to know how to beat IG?

http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?

Snoop around there and find anything you ever wanted to know about how to beat IG.

You sir win this thread.

[bonedale]

...

No such thing.

What made the 'leafblower' anything worth spit was the guy behind the models, Darkwyn.

Stop chasing this mythical Leafblower. It does not exist.



First, thank you for the link, I will check it out.

Second, I have to disagree with the mythical leafblower list. Darkwyn is a great 40k player, no doubt. But I think even he'll agree to a certain extent, that the list itself proved dominant in the tourneys. I watched the one battle report here. And it was clear, skill was not the #1 reason for the slaughter, and I mean slaughter. He didn't defeat opponents by turn 2, and in 45 minutes by skill alone. Not even close. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight, sure you need to aim it, but that is about it.

I'm sure people are tired of hearing about the leafblower. But I'm not chasing it, just preparing for it.

[Dingareth]

So, stop trying to break out the knives, and make it into a gun fight. And if you happen to have one, make sure it's bigger, louder, and stronger than his gun.

[Nikephoros]

He didn't defeat opponents by turn 2, and in 45 minutes by skill alone. Not even close..

Yeah, in addition to skill, he had a tremendous amount of good luck in Hard Boys. His list isn't bad, but its not the most optimized Mech IG list out there.

[henrythesecond]

Evening dudes,

I use a fully-Mech IG list (though definitely not a 'Leafblower' list) and, though it seems fairly obvious, my toughest few games have undoubtedly been against my buddy's Vulkanised SM. I play against DKK, IG, Eldar and Tau regularly and hava a very healthy record against them with my Mech IG, but those Melta-toting Marines are a struggle.

Just my 2p.

Regards.

[DarkLink]

So, stop trying to break out the knives, and make it into a gun fight. And if you happen to have one, make sure it's bigger, louder, and stronger than his gun.

Where have you been? This is 5th ed 40k. Everyone knows that knives work way better than guns:p. Otherwise, CC wouldn't be so effective:rolleyes:.

[BuFFo]

I'm sure people are tired of hearing about the leafblower. But I'm not chasing it, just preparing for it.

You are preparing to face Darkwyn?

Good luck if you do!

[BuFFo]

Yeah, in addition to skill, he had a tremendous amount of good luck in Hard Boys. His list isn't bad, but its not the most optimized Mech IG list out there.

Very true...

Going first every game in the finals while all three of your opponents are too stupid to reserve anything is just laying down for the bear.

- edit -

BAH Double Post.... IT BURNS MY EYES!!!!

Can a mod merge my posts or delete this please?

[blackjack]

"you need to get your head out of this fantasy that lists wins games. This isn't Magic the Gathering where net decking works. 40k Is about the general's ability to understand the rules and adapt turn by turn to the ever changing situation."

LOL 40k tactics are not exactly rocket science. Lists are at least 80% of the game. Anyone with a good grounding in the rules and basic tactics can grind hell out of significantly inferior lists played by significantly superior generals. Sure if you make huge blunders anyone can fail with any army. But the diffrence between merely competent play and amazing, never makes a mistake, play is not nearly as wide as the gap between army lists at identical point costs.

[DarkLink]

Lists are like bringing a bigger gun to a gunfight. It helps, but in the end the better shot wins. Probably.

[BuFFo]

"you need to get your head out of this fantasy that lists wins games. This isn't Magic the Gathering where net decking works. 40k Is about the general's ability to understand the rules and adapt turn by turn to the ever changing situation."

LOL 40k tactics are not exactly rocket science. Lists are at least 80% of the game. Anyone with a good grounding in the rules and basic tactics can grind hell out of significantly inferior lists played by significantly superior generals. Sure if you make huge blunders anyone can fail with any army. But the diffrence between merely competent play and amasing, never makes a mistake, play is not nearly as wide as the gap between army lists at identical point costs.

And you are the exact kind of gamer that cannot beat me when I play strangers / random people, and wonders why you cannot win.

Must be my list.

[blackjack]

"And you are the exact kind of gamer that cannot beat me when I play strangers / random people, and wonders why you cannot win.

Must be my list. "

I don't think it's your list so much as your grammar.

Happly matches can be arranged at certian online sites. Just let me pick both armies and pick which of the two I want to play and we can see how your massively superior skills stack up to mere competience and an overwhelmingly superior list. PM me if you really want to try.

[BuFFo]

I don't think it's your list so much as your grammar.

Really?


Happly matches can be arranged at certian online sites. Just let me pick both armies and pick which of the two I want to play and we can see how your massively superior skills stack up to mere competience and an overwhelmingly superior list. PM me if you really want to try.

When you hit 16 years old, PM me :D

....

To beat the LeafBlower list, you need to break Darkwynn's models when his back is turned, so he is forced to forfeit.

Pretty simple actually.

[DarkLink]

If lists were everything, then one of my local friends wouldn't be intimidated by my Grey Knights, especially since a couple of us helped him put together a fine-tuned tournament list that we're going to try out.

Of course, in reality, I'm a much more experienced player than he is, since he started a few months ago. That's why he doesn't want to face my army, not because of any peculiarities of my lists.







Happly matches can be arranged at certian online sites.

Maybe it's your spelling:p.

[blackjack]

"Quote:
Happly matches can be arranged at certian online sites. Just let me pick both armies and pick which of the two I want to play and we can see how your massively superior skills stack up to mere competience and an overwhelmingly superior list. PM me if you really want to try.
When you hit 16 years old, PM me"


I take your childish form of refusal to accept my (rather one sided) challenge to mean you concede my point. The gap between competent and expert generals is not as wide as the potential gap between lists of equal points. Thus list building > great generalship in 40k.

Darklink

I specifically stated competent players.
I misspelled a word, Bofos entire sentence borders on incomprehensible.

[BuFFo]

Maybe it's your spelling:p.

Yeah, that would have been too easy to point out his hypocrisy.

That is the last vestige of a desperate, anonymous poster online, attacking someone's grammar because you have no other recourse.

Bad grammar online? Really? Perish the thought!

Blackjack is just another Troll I have on Ignore. Makes life so much easier.

[DarkLink]

Darklink

I specifically stated competent players.
I misspelled a word, Bofos entire sentence borders on incomprehensible.

I was just messin'. Hence the smilie :p. Is that even how you spell smilie? Or is it smiley? Or what?

Ah, well, who cares. I'm gonna go make an equation sheet for my thermo midterm tomorrow morning.

[cypher623]

Yeah, that would have been too easy to point out his hypocrisy.

That is the last vestige of a desperate, anonymous poster online, attacking someone's grammar because you have no other recourse.

Bad grammar online? Really? Perish the thought!

Blackjack is just another Troll I have on Ignore. Makes life so much easier.


Actually this topic, "is" what happens to most players who try to post here for advice, lectures from internet tough guys with nothing positive to say. To suggest that the list makes no difference is completely inane, its what people say when they copy someone else's list from an internet post and then enter the denial phase and still insist they are winning because of tactics. No offense to Darkwynn, because the list WAS used at an ardboys event, but that list did, and still will beat 90% of the players who face it. Being a great general in 4ok means building a devestating list so that you always have the rock vs. the scissors. Look at all of the double lash armies used at tournaments nationwide that were identical down to the last model! Did these guys all come up with the same build? no they simply copied it.

Now, in answer to your question, ss and th termies, backed up by mm 3 x 2attack bikes have had success against the mech lists, add three t fire cannons and magnus calgar and you are cooking. Also, the key lies in popping open the tanks, which I have seen done quite easily by the drop podding furioso librarian.

finally a little piece of advice, at last year's ardboys (fantasy) a large % of people built lists to counter daemon magic. I had a great anti magic list. i played two dwarves and a dark elf with no spellcaster. The field at ardboys is big, and deep u may never even see the list you are most worried about.

[BuFFo]

Actually this topic, "is" what happens to most players who try to post here for advice, lectures from internet tough guys with nothing positive to say.

The topic here is "How do I beat Leafblower".

The problem right off the bat is there is NO such thing as a Leaf Blower, no matter how much people try to shoe horn it as a meme into 40k parlance.

Leaf Blower = Darkwynn.

Darkwynn IS the leaf blower.

If you would have seen the battle reports by Goat and the others in Adepticon, they said, what 40 - 60% of the players in the singles tournament were running Mech IG?

And how many of the 'blew away their opponents? None of them.

Who won the Gladiator tournament with IG? DARKWYNN!!

This is what I am trying to let the kids here understand, 40k is NOT a list based game. Obviously lists play a part, but the bigger part is the person rolling the dice, not the models.

So from the start this topic is full of fail and bad advice.

What the OP should have asked is "How do I beat Mech IG".


Now, in answer to your question, ss and th termies, backed up by mm 3 x 2attack bikes have had success against the mech lists, add three t fire cannons and magnus calgar and you are cooking. Also, the key lies in popping open the tanks, which I have seen done quite easily by the drop podding furioso librarian.

You see? You got the right idea. You are giving advice to beat Mech IG, not this magical 'Leaf Blower' list.

[Splug]

Personally, I agree with a comment a friend has made on several occasions: winning a game of 40k is roughly equal contribution by four major elements: army composition, deployment (and terrain deployment), in-game strategy/tactics, and sheer luck. Slam the list or the player all you want, but at the top of the heap you're going to need a solid position in all four of those fields to compete. I'd say it's fairly clear that skill, list, and dice were all in Darkwynn's favor last year (along with an advantageous deployment), and contributing success last year to any single one of those factors is not going to be telling the whole story.

That said, the only things anyone can do before 'Ard Boyz to improve their chances are to scrutinize their list (favoring army composition), and then practice the hell out of it (favoring deployment/strategy). I see a perfectly logical reason for posting a thread asking about mech-IG and babyblower clone counters - just keep in mind you may still run into that random swarm of Orks and be left scratching your head on what to do with all the tank destruction. On the other hand, one of the best tactics is the element of surprise. Publicizing your tactics two weeks before the tournament is just asking for the other player to include a countermeasure in their list... so maybe arguing over whether it was Darkwynn or the Leafblower who won last year is at least not counter-productive!

[LoverzCry]

Derf! Nobody's right, everyone's wrong!
I love how such a simple topic can degernate into bickering. xD

BuFFo, as usual, your comments make me smile.

blackjack, you so crazy. Grow up, bro up, do cocaine, play bop-it, listen to Flock of Seagulls, cry, have a wet dream about Lynyrd Skynyrd,take a high school english class, then you may mingle with the big kids.

Getting back on topic, I'd have to say the best strategy (in my opinion) against mech IG, especially for the scenarios of Ard'Boyz, is specialized weapons units and not so much vehicles. Even the classic missile launcher and meltagunis relatively cheap, and is very effective if you don't want to spill points into large heavy weapons squads. That being the case though, I still support the idea of using small vehicles such as land speeders or whatever else you might use for your army, that are fast and mobile that'll pop what needs to be taken care of. Other than that, reserve if you go second, keep your guys behind cover, and kill what you can before your opponent can strike you back.

Aaron

[Grey Templar]

To beat leafblower(or any guard list that likes to sit back and shoot, ie all of them) i like outflankers.

SM scouts with a powerfist in a LSS coming in from the side. 24" assault range with that PF and you also have krak grenades. LSS can also have a Multi-melta.


also going mech is a obvious way to do it, but its worth mentioning. Rhinos can hide in cover if you go 2nd, spread out.

if you go first move 12" forward and pop smoke(hopefully inside the 36" minimum indirect fire range)

if you have access to DH or WH allies. take a cheap elite inquisitor (with mystics if desired) and the emperors tarot to help you get first turn. then take a Callidus assassin(the one with the "A word in your ear" rule)

move those Basilisks forward as far as allowed, maybe out of cover, maybe into range of your anti-tank using the assassin's rule. the assassin can also cause some damage when it shows up, assasinate an HQ or heavy weapons team.

[Duke Rich]

I haven't played an IG Leafblower list before but, here's a helpful suggestion. Logan Grimnar, Non Terminator Wolf Guard with melta's/powefists in drop pods, "Hi, I'm in front of you, melting your face."

[slobulous]

I haven't played an IG Leafblower list before but, here's a helpful suggestion. Logan Grimnar, Non Terminator Wolf Guard with melta's/powefists in drop pods, "Hi, I'm in front of you, melting your face."

Too bad that would get obliterated by a couple of Medusa Siege Cannons before they get to pull a trigger.

[DarkLink]

Too bad that would get obliterated by a couple of Medusa Siege Cannons before they get to pull a trigger.

The Mystic anti-deepstrike circle isn't that big. Land outside of 14", and you'll probably be safe. Deploy in cover, and you'll be relatively save, too.

I also don't see indirect fire on the Medusa Seige cannon profile. Land out of sight of it, and you're safe. If nothing else, you can jump out on the far side of the Drop Pod, and be relatively safe.

The mystic isn't an auto-win against deepstrikers.

[slobulous]

You are taking it out of the context I was replying to. The guy I quoted was saying that he was gonna land right in front and melt some faces, in which case, yes indeed they will eat some STR10 AP2 pie plates. If you are in 2d6 melta range, you can bet your *** you are in mystic range. I didn't say it was an auto win, but it takes away a lot of deep strikers' main advantage; being able to hit first.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I did just kinda skim the thread.

A multimelta dread could probably pick off a vehicle that's outside of that 14" bubble.

A few units of, say, Wolf Guard with some missile launchers could also do some damage, and they don't have to land right next to them.

I agree with you, heavy melta reliance is fairly easy for the Mystic to counter. Deepstriking in general, though can still be very effective if done right.