Imperial Armor Book' units in a tournament

[Blackcloud6]

I'm hosting a small three round 900 point/army tournament where players win by overall total points scored in all their games.

The Army must be a Combined Arms Detachment from current codices/supplements. I am not allowing Lords of War, Apocalypse, Horus Heresy, 30K units/models.

What are thoughts on allowing Forgeworld Imperial Armor armies? I'm not too familiar with these and there are so many IA books that my head spins.

I have one player requesting to use Renegades from Volume 13.

So, what do you guys think; should I allow it? Are there potential issues others may bring up? Or am I worried about nothing?

Thanks for your help.

[Lord Manton]

The Renegades and Heretics list is a simple, Chaos version of a guard army. They are a little bit cheaper, but only because they are generally a little bit worse.

They can easily make a CAD army. The only issue that could come up is "Covenants' (i think they're called). These are basically Combat Tactics (ala Space Marines). They give a few unit buffs and allow a couple of different choices such as a Decimator or the option to bring Spawns. AFAIK they aren't broken. They seem to me to be a fun and flavourful army with some interesting options like Plague Ogryns etc.

Be careful, though. There are a few army list options in IA:13 (eg. CSM, Renegades). Ask them to show you their list and the book so you can cross-reference it and make sure they haven't snuck a CSM unit into the Renegades list. This shouldn't be much of an issue as the R&H list is its own, contained section. But as it's all contained in the one book, they may get confused and think it's all one army (this is assuming you're not allowing allies).

I'd let them bring it, as long as they have a suitably Chaotic looking army.

[Path Walker]

Point of clarification if you're running the tournament, a Combined Arms Detachment is the specific Detachment in the Rule book, the codex Detachments are not Combined Arms Detachments.

Imperial Armour books include a lot of cool looking models and fun rules, generally, nothing is too powerful and certainly nothing is as powerful as some of the stuff you can get in a codex these days, so, from a "balance" point of view, nothing much will change, especially at a low points value where you need to cover the basics. A lot of the resistance to IA seems to be people jealous they can't use the toys because they don't have them,but that leaves people that do unable to use their models, which never seems fair to me.

[Blackcloud6]

Thanks much, this is very helpful.

[Mr Mystery]

The Renegades and Heretics list is a simple, Chaos version of a guard army. They are a little bit cheaper, but only because they are generally a little bit worse.

They can easily make a CAD army. The only issue that could come up is "Covenants' (i think they're called). These are basically Combat Tactics (ala Space Marines). They give a few unit buffs and allow a couple of different choices such as a Decimator or the option to bring Spawns. AFAIK they aren't broken. They seem to me to be a fun and flavourful army with some interesting options like Plague Ogryns etc.

Be careful, though. There are a few army list options in IA:13 (eg. CSM, Renegades). Ask them to show you their list and the book so you can cross-reference it and make sure they haven't snuck a CSM unit into the Renegades list. This shouldn't be much of an issue as the R&H list is its own, contained section. But as it's all contained in the one book, they may get confused and think it's all one army (this is assuming you're not allowing allies).

I'd let them bring it, as long as they have a suitably Chaotic looking army.

Not sure I agree with that.

The Renegades list in IA:13 is very, very complicated. Lots of different options, not just for army composition (it can change depending on the general) but within a given unit as well.

The biggest risk here of course, is that then leaves it open to cheating/abuse, plus most opponent's won't have the foggiest what's what, especially as so much of it relies on conversion work, making WYSIWYG a potential nightmare.

I don't think I'd have any issue with someone using a unit from IA, but a full army? Perhaps not so much.

[Blackcloud6]

The biggest risk here of course, is that then leaves it open to cheating/abuse, plus most opponent's won't have the foggiest what's what, especially as so much of it relies on conversion work, making WYSIWYG a potential nightmare.


This is exactly what my concern is. But it is a small invitational tournament so this may not be a problem. Hmmm....

- - - Updated - - -


(this is assuming you're not allowing allies).


Now you have me wondering if I should allow Allies. Is there a downside to allowing Allies? I have no problem saying "no" and that the armies need to be "pure." After all, they are only 900 points.

[Mr Mystery]

I think it's the WYSIWYG issue that bugs me the most.

For non-tournament play, amongst friends, not a problem.

But given the plethora of choices it offers (seriously, the only way to maintain sanity with that list is to decide what sort of Cult you want, then go about selecting units) it might be a bit confusing for others.

Especially with oddities like units of up to 5 Wyverns, compared to AM's cap of three per Battery...

[Defenestratus]

CAD?

*hackspit*

So boring.

[Blackcloud6]

CAD?

*hackspit*

So boring.

Thank you for helping me with my question.

[Katharon]

Considering the amount of stupid and cheese you can now find *outside* of Forgeworld, most of those IA books are fairly tame in comparison. So yes, go for it.

[Blackcloud6]

Considering the amount of stupid and cheese you can now find *outside* of Forgeworld, most of those IA books are fairly tame in comparison. So yes, go for it.

Yep, I agree. I just sent out the rules to the players and the Forgeworld stuff is OK.

[Lord Manton]

Not sure I agree with that.

The Renegades list in IA:13 is very, very complicated. Lots of different options, not just for army composition (it can change depending on the general) but within a given unit as well.

The biggest risk here of course, is that then leaves it open to cheating/abuse, plus most opponent's won't have the foggiest what's what, especially as so much of it relies on conversion work, making WYSIWYG a potential nightmare.

I don't think I'd have any issue with someone using a unit from IA, but a full army? Perhaps not so much.

I guess it's not that simple. That said, it's not that confusing an army. It just has some different things in it. I'll admit I was daunted the first time I read over the list, but honestly, it's no more daunting than moving from, say, Space Marines to Daemons. Sure there are a few different types of units, and the composition can change, but as I said, it doesn't make it any more or less confusing than other armies.

As to allies. The answer is no. In tournaments it should always be 'no'. Armies are created with built in strengths and weakness. Allies is a cheap way to mitigate any of an army's weaknesses. Also in such a small points limit, it's going to be hard to fit a CAD and allied detachment in the same army.

[Katharon]

Also, a basic rule that I and my gaming book stick to is: if you're going to take it, bring a hard copy or a legit digital copy. Torrented copies are OK for general fluff and rule reference, but in a competitive setting, it *has* to be legit. Also, printed out copies of any and all FAQs. If they fail to bring them, either send them to the nearest printer, or they're SOL and won't be able to use it.

As long as players are warned of this ahead of time, no one should be surprised. And if they whine about it, when it's their own frakking fault for not bringing something they were told to bring, they're still SOL.

[Path Walker]

Thank you for helping me with my question.

Its legit though, because CAD doesn't really work well for some armies, Orks don't generally work well in a CAD (although at 900, CAD would be better). But I think you mistook the term CAD for the term Detachment as you said they could use the Codex CADs, when you meant Codex Detachments.

[son_of_volmer]

you could add some stipulations for anyone who wants to bring Forge World

-Submit the list beforehand
-Bring the Imperial Armour book
-Actually have the Forge World Model

If someone can do two of the three stipulations, chances are its a player that is looking to have a good time