Black Legion Formations and Special Rules [Archive] - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Charon

04-05-2016, 10:46 AM

Most of the formations are terribad again.
Terminators with a fearless lord attached gain fearless as formation bonus. Amazing. And dont forget we still have a 1 in 6 chance to get nothing from the other formation rule. But lose IC. Yey.
Shroud of Deceit is only castable by ONE model in the formation. Fair enough. You will see this in tzeentch deamon lists (lots of dice) and probably in KDK lists (fast enough and adds to multiple threat)
Thirst for Glory could have been good if it was "turn" and not phase.
Them mandatory (and useless) warpsmith in the daemon engine pack comes at the price for a 3rd engine. to either give WS4 to a Ws3 model or BS5 to a model that shoots templates or AP4 weapons.
Posessed gain rending and Bonus I and Ws. Yey. Close combat was never their issue. Crossing the field is.
And the designer of the hounds must be a master brain. Mark of khorne mandatory but for free. So I just take my Berzerkers and... well leave them as they already have it and do not get a discount.
Marines with MoK was better than berzerkers before and are now WAY better because they are cheaper. wtf...
Lazy afternoon job.
Also note how all these formations are taxed by expensive HQ models and receive no actual benefit for the tax.
Also note that these "new books" are either written for the current dex (which means no new dex for a long time) or we keep the bull**** mechanics of forced challenges and random mutations.

Andrew Thomas

04-05-2016, 10:46 AM

Yawn. Still haven't fixed any of the main 'dex's problems.

Mr Mystery

04-05-2016, 11:55 AM

Deceit ought to be a laugh. Spesh if your opponent has taken Grav armed Centurions.

Defenestratus

04-05-2016, 12:02 PM

Shroud of Deceit is only castable by ONE model in the formation.

The way I read the formation rule, it looks like any model can cast that power. Meaning if you have 5 sorcerers, you can cast it 5 times.

Mr Mystery

04-05-2016, 12:13 PM

Pick one at the start of the Psychic Phase.

So one model at a time. And as I'm well rusty on psychics (Tau and Necrons!) I think that means only one casting per formation per turn?

Charon

04-05-2016, 12:15 PM

The way I read the formation rule, it looks like any model can cast that power. Meaning if you have 5 sorcerers, you can cast it 5 times.

What makes you think that "ONE model can lead the ritual and cast the power while the others join in" means EVERY model can cast that power?

Defenestratus

04-05-2016, 12:31 PM

What makes you think that "ONE model can lead the ritual and cast the power while the others join in" means EVERY model can cast that power?

Ok - well I admittedly only paid it a passing glance as Chaos doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Sorry you can't be happy about anything. Ever. It seems.

ShaunDaboyz

04-05-2016, 12:46 PM

The specific wording is "at the start of each of your psychic phases, select one model from the Cyclopia Cabal to lead it in a dark ritual. That model can attempt to manifest the Shroud of Deceit psychic power below. For each other sorcerer from this formation that is within 12", add one dice to the psychic test - these dice do not cost any warp charge points."

Shipmonkey

04-05-2016, 01:46 PM

Any one else noticing an odd lack of Abaddon in those formations?

Djbz

04-05-2016, 02:29 PM

Charon

04-05-2016, 03:21 PM

Ok - well I admittedly only paid it a passing glance as Chaos doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Sorry you can't be happy about anything. Ever. It seems.

Pretty rich from an Eldar player who still thinks his army is totally balanced against all others :rolleyes:

Djbz

04-05-2016, 04:07 PM

Any one else noticing an odd lack of Abaddon in those formations?

I assume he is in as a command choice, forced to pal around with a hilariously expensive unit with multiple Lords/Sorcerors/Dark Apostles etc. like Ghazghul is in his detachment

Although I just thought more about this, how cool would it be if he got a formation where his bodyguard (Of Terminators, with option of Cataphracti terminator armour) Got his mark of Chaos Ascendant?

I seriously doubt it, but it would be cool (and brutal-like he should be)

ShaunDaboyz

04-05-2016, 07:44 PM

He has a formation that is him and a unit of terminators that are upgraded to ws and bs 5. He also gets to reroll one look out sir save per phase.

Djbz

04-05-2016, 11:56 PM

He has a formation that is him and a unit of terminators that are upgraded to ws and bs 5. He also gets to reroll one look out sir save per phase.

I figured it'd be something like that.

I think my idea would have been better.

Mike X

04-06-2016, 02:19 AM

Charon

04-06-2016, 03:31 AM

You must be a powergamer, because the randomness of Chaos and its mutation gambles are super fluffy. Chaos is based on the "if you play with fire you'll get burned" adage. It seems like you've chosen the wrong army for your playstyle. If you want a more steady version of Chaos Marines, just play Space Marines.

There has to be a trade off for taking a risk. Taking risks without any benefit is bad design. It is less playing with fire it is more a case of: Jump down this bridge. If you survive nothing happens. If you don't you obviously died. While other armies are like "sit on this bridge for a while and you get a car. However if you jump down and survive you get 3 cars."
Don't start with fluff as not every warband is into mutations and according to the fluff an CSM is on par if not even stronger than a space marine (there you have your trade off) while in the tabletop the opposite is true.
And it is especially fluffy if your chaos lord ends up as a daemon prince beeing suddenly a lot weaker than he was before.

Defenestratus

04-06-2016, 06:51 AM

Pretty rich from an Eldar player who still thinks his army is totally balanced against all others :rolleyes:

I still enjoy my hobby despite what rolls out of the GW studio. It seems your hobby it just whining and complaining about what rolls out of the GW studio. Why don't you go play Infinity like the rest of the people who think they know how to make a game better than GW. It would certainly be something more up your alley it seems.

his_dudeship77

04-06-2016, 06:55 AM

Don't start with fluff as not every warband is into mutations and according to the fluff an CSM is on par if not even stronger than a space marine (there you have your trade off) while in the tabletop the opposite is true.
And it is especially fluffy if your chaos lord ends up as a daemon prince beeing suddenly a lot weaker than he was before.

I do not want to start a ground debate on the "fluff" of CSM, but I would like to disagree with you, in the politest way possible, on your statement about Chaos Marines being on par/ stronger than usual Space Marines. This is, in my opinion, simply not true. Let us review which advantages a Chaos Marine has:
+ Boon of mutations, which usually are randomly sprouted by long exposure to the warp, but given the Chaos Marines alignment to their Chaos Gods, seem to be granted more accurately.
+ IF they were arch-traitors i.e. Marines that followed Horus into the rebellion, they have been waring since a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time, which gives them a bucket load of experience when it Comes to war.
+ IF they fell from the grace of the emperor more recently, they can be expected to have more updated battle technology such as grav-guns and MK VII or MK VIII armour. Of course it can be argued that the Imperium of Man fell into a stagnation concerning technology but it can not be argued that a well organized realm of a loosley united race can better maintain their war machinery then a badly organized rag-tag band of self-centered techno-barbarians.
+ Freedom to learn and use anything they want to, with no restrictions from an ignorant, witch hunting state.

Now the draw-backs:
- Unorganized, ununited band of rag-tags with a dog-eat-dog attitude. Yes, this will produce stronger specimen but in such a limited number it is questionable that these will have an impact in a battle, given their rarity.
- IF they are arch-traitors i.e. Marines that followed Horus into the rebellion, they have seriously outdated weaponry and armour with no real means to maintain said equipment except through raids. These raids in themselves carry again a certain risk of losing or damaging equipment... its a vicious circle.
-IF they fell from the grace of the Emperor more recently they will not have any more battle experience than a loyalist marine. The only thing that is different is the their point of view.
- Higher risk of being wacked by the randomness of Chaos... there is stories of potential Chaos Marines who excelled at bringing the Imperium to its knees who were simply turned into a giant blob of goo by their fickle gods. Where is the logic in that?

Their changed physique did not happen due to magical chance, it can be considered a boon from Chaos. Bloated bellies, multiple arms, increased height, supernatural speed, these are all chaos-mutations or at best genetical and physical tinkering by some mad apothecary which the narrow minded Inquistion of the Imperium would not allow.
As such, I simply cannot see how a Chaos Space Marine would surpass their loyal counterparts, except through the gift of mutations and sometimes unorthodox physicial enhancement.

Muninwing

04-06-2016, 06:56 AM

You must be a powergamer, because the randomness of Chaos and its mutation gambles are super fluffy. Chaos is based on the "if you play with fire you'll get burned" adage. It seems like you've chosen the wrong army for your playstyle. If you want a more steady version of Chaos Marines, just play Space Marines.

chaos is not immediately getting burned though... it's about temptation, conviction, a warped perspective, and the promises of power increasing so that the risks are worth the gains.

randomization doesn't always work in scale or theme. if i'm a chaos general and i have access to Possessed marines, i'm going to send in the ones with wings to do the things that ones with wings would, since they'd have that mutation when they banded together -- and i wouldn't assign them a rhino. but not knowing until you roll on the chart creates uselessness.

i'm ok with using boons and randomness in certain contexts. but they have really started using it as a gimmick instead of fluff in the last few books.

his_dudeship77

04-06-2016, 08:14 AM

It would certainly be nice seeing some sort of balance between fluff and actual playability. While I do believe that Chaos Space Marines mostly operate on a more small scale ,"warband"-ish sort of basis, it would be nice if they could still hold their own against more organized armies. Say for example Chaos Space Marines ,as they currently are, would get access to game impacting special rules. For example:
- Sabotage: At the beginning of the game each enemy tank gets hit by a S5 AP - against their rear armour
- Whisper of Chaos: At the beginning of the game, each enemy unit needs to take a Leadership test. Should the unit fail, they loose 1 model as one of theirs flees to join Chaos .
- Grave Mutation: Put 3 markers on the battlefield. From turn 2 onwards roll for each marker. On a 3+ place the 5" above the marker and scatter it 2D6". Any modell below the marker receives a S4 AP2 wound. Should a whole unit be destroyed by the template, replace the unit with a Chaos-Spawn under your control.

It is just an idea but hey... might work

Another thing I thought would have really been nice, is some rule which would make you feel the effect of the slowly creeping corruption of Chaos.
Say for example that they could come up with a special rule for Individual Characters in armies, or even just Characters such as Champions. They should give them the option to always pray to the Chaos gods in order to receive some powerful boon, but on the other hand, when you do get the boon, it will also affect your game score in a really negative way. So that you might win the battle, but can't help feel like loosing the war.

AdamHarry

04-06-2016, 09:31 AM

via Captain Citadel (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?20775-Chaos-Space-Marines-Rumor-Roundup&p=239522&viewfull=1#post239522) 4-6-2016

17970 17971
17972 17973
17974 17975
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Charon

04-06-2016, 09:38 AM

I still enjoy my hobby despite what rolls out of the GW studio. It seems your hobby it just whining and complaining about what rolls out of the GW studio. Why don't you go play Infinity like the rest of the people who think they know how to make a game better than GW. It would certainly be something more up your alley it seems.

Oh noez someone playing the best army in the game (and in every single edition except one) enjoys to be on top. Mind blown.

Defenestratus

04-06-2016, 12:08 PM

Oh noez someone playing the best army in the game (and in every single edition except one) enjoys to be on top. Mind blown.

I'm not the one sticking around a game that I don't like. Again, if you're so unhappy, why do you stick around with 40k? Is it the models? Is it the fluff? It's clearly not the rules since you take every opportunity to complain about them when you can.

Mr Mystery

04-06-2016, 02:15 PM

Oh noez someone playing the best army in the game (and in every single edition except one) enjoys to be on top. Mind blown.

As opposed to CSM players who still hanker after the 3.5 Codex and the days when they didn't have to do that much thinking?

Glass houses, dude.

Charon

04-06-2016, 11:07 PM

I'm not the one sticking around a game that I don't like. Again, if you're so unhappy, why do you stick around with 40k? Is it the models? Is it the fluff? It's clearly not the rules since you take every opportunity to complain about them when you can.

A mix of Fluff and the fact that my Eldar and Daemons are still valid to play. Unlike my CSM and DE. But I know this is hard to understand that I want an even ground for all armies. It may be old fashioned but I do like fair games and I take no delight in
my fair and totally balanced Eldar smashing some Dark Eldar (that are of course on the same level because... Eldar is not stronger as we all know!) because of my tactical genious that is a byproduct of my better unit stats and formations rules all over the board.

Defenestratus

04-07-2016, 06:48 AM

A mix of Fluff and the fact that my Eldar and Daemons are still valid to play. Unlike my CSM and DE. But I know this is hard to understand that I want an even ground for all armies. It may be old fashioned but I do like fair games and I take no delight in
my fair and totally balanced Eldar smashing some Dark Eldar (that are of course on the same level because... Eldar is not stronger as we all know!) because of my tactical genious that is a byproduct of my better unit stats and formations rules all over the board.

What got you into these armies then in the first place? For me and Eldar, it was the swooping hawk, striking scorpion, warp spider and war walker models. I really adored them (the 2nd edition sculpts). The Eldar lore really connects with me, the conceit, the fall, the rebirth, the scratching and clawing for existence while still maintaining hope that the old times can be relived again but probably not.

As for my Blood Angels - I always loved the look of the assault marine jet pack and back then I could paint red pretty well. Then the Sang Guard models came out and I convinced myself that I needed to start that army, so I did. Now I've got over 12,000 points of the emo space vampires.

My Grey Knights - well, I love the GK Terminator model. It's totally badass. Plus the whole Lord Inquisitor trailer kind of still makes me get a little excited inside when I watch it. Plus, I really enjoyed the Emperor's Gift novel which was about the GK.

I've got a "get started" box of IG because I want an excuse to build and paint a bunch of baneblades/shadowswords.

Admittedly I don't love the BA or GK nearly as much as my Eldar, but you never get over your first love. I like the new Eldar book because its allows me to play Eldar the way that I imagined them playing in my head. Fast, lightning strikes with flimsy glass-like models. And Swooping Hawks that can attack flyers in mid-air - because thats f**kin metal.

What is it about your CSM and the DE that originally drew you to them? What other than the rules connects you to them and gives you enjoyment?

FYI, I don't pretend to be some gift to 40k strategy. I've still lost more games with the new Eldar book than won (probably because I don't use wraith* and I'm playing against my buddy Ian who is really damn good - and a psychopath who thinks he's actually his Ultramarine Chaplain named "T"... no seriously, he thinks he's Chaplain T). I don't really *care* about winning though since that's not what the "game" is about for me since I realized that I'd only find misery that way. I learned to enjoy the experience of playing the game rather than enjoying the outcome of playing the game.

So you can accuse me of being a frontrunner when it comes to loving Eldar - thats fine. I don't care because whenever I get the chance to play 40k, I thoroughly enjoy myself. I'm just trying to help you find happiness in the hobby, or convince you that its not the game for you.

Charon

04-07-2016, 07:48 AM

What got you into these armies then in the first place? For me and Eldar, it was the swooping hawk, striking scorpion, warp spider and war walker models. I really adored them (the 2nd edition sculpts). The Eldar lore really connects with me, the conceit, the fall, the rebirth, the scratching and clawing for existence while still maintaining hope that the old times can be relived again but probably not.

For Eldar it was the Models.
For CSM it was the Fluff. The already tough as nails MArines with added spikes and cruelty.
For DE it was speed and damage output on the tabletop. (I love fast armies)
Daemons are a byproduct from CSM as they were part of the army.

What is it about your CSM and the DE that originally drew you to them?

Beeing space marines with spikes and daemons drew me into CSM.
Beeing the fastest army drew me into DE.

What other than the rules connects you to them and gives you enjoyment?

Little else. I always comes down to rules, no matter what.
I want an army that performs like in the fluff, DE and CSM dont.
I want an army that has specialities but also some tradeoff (Hint: DE trade armor for speed was an ok concept... till Eldar got a lot faster than DE without this trade off and... everybody has the same speed now)
I want an army that performs in the same way as the army I play against.

I really dont care if the miniature on the table is a stupid dinobot or an amazing Bloodthirster. If it has bad rules, it stays on the shelf. Ok rules are enough to see some play.
That is because I can change the model any time I want. There are hundreds of miniature companies out there. If I do not like the look of Obliterators, I get another model or build my own.
Fluff is also no issue as every author has his own take anyways and lets be brutally hones... with CSM you end up beeing the faceless antagonist anyways that draws all stupid tropes of selfdefeat
at once to make the shiny space marine win at the end. At a horrend cost that does basically not matter in the next book or codex.

Erik Setzer

04-07-2016, 09:58 AM

As opposed to CSM players who still hanker after the 3.5 Codex and the days when they didn't have to do that much thinking?

Glass houses, dude.

Tone down a couple of things in the book and that codex was what a CSM codex should be: Lots of options, rules for playing legion armies and marked armies, all with a different feel.

And it was all contained in a single book for $25.

I don't hold out hope for that when a guy in a suit who's never touched a model looks at it and thinks "Hmm, we could do a $50 codex and nine $33 supplements and get over $300 out of people!"

I mean, heck, just do like Space Marines: A good thick core codex at $50 (not $58, that's getting silly), and then a solid supplement to add a bunch of legion-specific options at $33. That's still fleecing people compared to what we used to get, but not $300+ worth.

Skrall

04-10-2016, 06:59 AM

As opposed to CSM players who still hanker after the 3.5 Codex and the days when they didn't have to do that much thinking?

Glass houses, dude.

Ha.
Haha.
Hahahaha.

I think you mean long for the days when you picked a legion then spent the next 5 hours trying to flick back and forth trying to write an army list.

Here's a set of reasons chaos longs for 3.5;
-Possessed had power weapons so they'd actually manage to kill something
-Legion rules
-defilers were not insanely overcosted
-The difference between chaos marines and space marines was tangible. Unlike now where the difference is chaos marines pay more for disadvantages and less options.
-wargear options that actually made every warband different.
-every build was viable, fun and could look awesome.

It's actually easier to be a chaos player now because what ever army you put together, you can look forwards to being completely and totally out codexed by anything besides orks, tyranids and dark eldar..... and i'm not sure about tyranids on that list.

Its so desperately bad a codex for building anything outside of tournie monobuilds that i've actually started building my world eaters army using the vanillia codex and the charcaradon rules from FW because they are actually better fitting than the throne forsaken chaos codex.

But hey, chaos has nurgle spawnstars so what could i possibly have to complain about.

-skrall

Charon

04-13-2016, 01:35 AM

Don't mind him. He has been an obnoxious troll forever. He earned his place on my block list like a year ago and as I can see it has not been getting any better :D

Path Walker

04-13-2016, 02:31 AM

GW aren't writing rules to make any army "competitive", look at Age of Sigmar, that's the product they want, competitive gamers aren't their target audience and they're under no obligation to try and suit their rules to fit in with people wanting to win a game.

If you can't win your games with the army you want because your opponent is spamming or breaking a codex like Eldar, either ask them to change things up in their army, or play someone else.

The rules are purely there to make the models act on the battlefield like they are in the fluff. You can do that with the current CSM codex.

Stop playing people who Wraith spam, its simple.

Mr Mystery

04-13-2016, 02:35 AM

Ha.
Haha.
Hahahaha.

I think you mean long for the days when you picked a legion then spent the next 5 hours trying to flick back and forth trying to write an army list.

Here's a set of reasons chaos longs for 3.5;
-Possessed had power weapons so they'd actually manage to kill something
-Legion rules
-defilers were not insanely overcosted
-The difference between chaos marines and space marines was tangible. Unlike now where the difference is chaos marines pay more for disadvantages and less options.
-wargear options that actually made every warband different.
-every build was viable, fun and could look awesome.

It's actually easier to be a chaos player now because what ever army you put together, you can look forwards to being completely and totally out codexed by anything besides orks, tyranids and dark eldar..... and i'm not sure about tyranids on that list.

Its so desperately bad a codex for building anything outside of tournie monobuilds that i've actually started building my world eaters army using the vanillia codex and the charcaradon rules from FW because they are actually better fitting than the throne forsaken chaos codex.

But hey, chaos has nurgle spawnstars so what could i possibly have to complain about.

-skrall

Every list was viable, which explains why so many played Iron Warriors, or Daemon Bomb Word Bearwrs.

And such choices! But let me ignore all but those a Daemon Prince now comes with as standard, yeah?

Don't get me wrong, I had Iron Warriors too - they were easy to paint, and I then had a staff discount to use and abuse (20 Terminators, 10 Screamers and 20 Daemomettes for £40? Yeah. Go on then). But the Codex was insanely bent. Havocs were rarely seen armed with anything but Autocannon and the Tank Hunter upgrade (because then they could job pretty much anything). Obliterations were mental hard. T5, 2+ with a 5+ Invulnerable, 2 power fists in combat etc.

Despite all those options, armies were depressingly alike.

Consider the Daemon Prince....if memory serves (long time since I sold that army on)....Stature, Resilience, Strength, Tail, Wings, Sword of Ignore Invulnerable Saves, Extra Attack Upgrade, and Daemonic Visage. Monstrous Creature with a mad amount of attacks that ignore all Saves, had 2+/5+ itself, Toughness 6, rolled 2D6 for armour penetration, and your opponent started break tests at -2 Leadership thanks to Visage (the upgrade, not the Steve Strange lead 80's New Romantic band).

That Codex was the Eldar Codex of its day. Head and shoulders above the rest, with lots of options thoroughly ignored because you could pretty much a point and click list out of just a few.

Path Walker

04-13-2016, 03:19 AM

I won't rest until each army is ground down to one optimised best tournament list, in fact, why bother with multiple armies at all?

Defenestratus

04-13-2016, 07:32 AM

After reading the new SM powers, I do understand how CSM players feel like they're getting the shaft. From the "shiney new toys" perspective, it appears that the loyalists get all of the goods and the rebels are left with a dusting off of tired old ideas. I can see where your disappointment comes from.

All I can say is "keep the faith". Things tend to be cyclical in this hobby with regards to GW, and Chaos will have its heyday again I'm sure of it. In the meantime, paint up the minis that you think are terrible rules-wise now, because if recent history is anything to go by, you'll end up reaping big rewards on the tabletop when eventually their rules are refurbished.

(I think its actually quite BS that space marines get not only their own version of Lash, but its longer range and 100% better insomuch that the librarian's unit swaps places with the target unit... thats actually insanity)

Charon

04-13-2016, 07:51 AM

There was a single time in all history of the game when Chaos was better than loyalists and that was 3.5
And from this ONE time Sm had to see themselves how it is to be in a worse position some players still seem to get PTSD as they are now 4 (!) editions later are still not over the one time they did not dominate.

Erik Setzer

04-13-2016, 08:04 AM

Every list was viable, which explains why so many played Iron Warriors, or Daemon Bomb Word Bearwrs.

I saw others played, too. That's the era that the Nurgle army I'm pissed about losing was built in.

Some of it could be toned down. Some should have been beefed up. But the core premise of it was good.

The Iron Warriors' biggest draw at the time was running four Heavy Support choices, with the option to take Vindicators or Basilisks when no other CSMs could (and more Oblit's than others could take). In today's 40K, that's nothing. You can easily get a lot more HS, and you can pile up things like tank squadrons. It wouldn't be as nasty now as it was then, in comparison to the rest of the meta... which says something about where the meta's gone.

But while you think that's bad, let's not forget the 4th edition SM codex with the ability to choose chapter tactics. My concept was to have Infiltrate for the army, and allow Tactical Squads to use two special weapons rather than a special weapon and a heavy weapon, so they could deploy closer to the enemy, get in there faster, and start unloading while remaining mobile. But there were other folks, who did, say, an army with six Dreadnoughts, which was right hard in its own respect. And then there was my dad's army, which admittedly was also designed with his lack of mobility in mind, but was so boring to play I only played it once while steamrolling people. That army used Devastator Squad based chapter tactics, so you could have three Dev Squads as HS with Tank Hunters, and three Dev Squads as Elites with Infiltrate. He'd run a combination of lascannons and missile launchers (which could be switched over to taking out groups of infantry) in the HS slots, and heavy bolters and plasma cannons (wrecking Terminators) in Elites slots. It was insanely effective.

Funny note on the Iron Warriors, though... The only local tournament I've won to date came by beating three IW armies with Orks. At that point I'd just stopped trying to win and decided to spend the day going nuts and rushing my army with "tactics" that were more like madness than reasoned thought. It worked incredibly. Shouldn't have even been that possible with Orks having their built-in weakness to armor, but getting into combat wasn't quite as hard as it is these days.

Charon

04-13-2016, 09:21 AM

The obliterator example is basically as good as it can get to compare the edition.
All that changed was -1T and a few points more. For a seemingly so strong unit (you still can get T5 and now have a bigger variety of weapons) isnt it strange that they completely disappeared?
Like a very few people using them? When the Iron Warriors were OP for lifting the 0-1 restriction... now there is no more 0-1 restriction. There is not even an actual FOC restriction as you can just pick multiples.
If that made them utterly broken and they did not change... why are they suddenly not broken now? No restriction at all. Come on! Fear the mighty obliterator!
Oh right... editions changed. Armies moved on. We are not in ****ing 3rd edition anymore.

You know what actually was broken and really needed a fix? Leash. That power would be devastating even today.

Wanna know whats fun? Space Marines just got leash. And I bet you wont see any Space Marine having a problem with that. However they will still complain about how OP it was when CSM had it while pointing out that their new PSI powers are fine.