Tank shock

[KO5014]

In 40K can a vehicle off the board tank shock as it movers onto the board edge, when the oponents figures are lined up along the board edge?
This occurred while entering play from a short board edge where the opposing player was comming on from reserve. :confused: He came on using tank shock to move through the figures on the board edge.

[DarkLink]

Yes, a tank can tank shock onto the table. You move onto the table, and when you move you can choose to tank shock.

[karandras]

Agreed. The tank shock rules clearly state that they are an exception to moving within 1" of enemy models. There is nothing that I am aware of to prevent a tank from moving on and tank shocking.

[Duke]

After looking at tank shock I don't see anything that would prevent it.

Duke

[Mr.Pickelz]

so what if your models are already in base to base contact, such as an ork 30 boy mob assaulting it, and its completely surrounded, could it still tank shock? or even move?

[Nabterayl]

If a vehicle is completely surrounded by enemy models then it cannot make a normal move, as it would have to move within 1" of enemy models (unless it was a skimmer, of course, in which case it could just move over them). However, it could make a tank shock, which would allow it to move through the enemy models. Note that this means a non-skimmer, non-tank vehicle that is completely surrounded by enemy models cannot move.

[Mr.Pickelz]

ok thanks for the clarification on that.

I was curious ,cause my situation was a tank (land raider) was covered in a 30 boy mob, there for he couldn't do a normal move.What really messed me up, is in BRB it says it has to move at least combat speed pg. 68, but if he can't move (as he is already in btb contact), then can he still tank shock?

I figured he can, being that it is a freaking land raider, but as far as Raw, it wasn't connecting in my brain.

[Tynskel]

ok thanks for the clarification on that.

I was curious ,cause my situation was a tank (land raider) was covered in a 30 boy mob, there for he couldn't do a normal move.What really messed me up, is in BRB it says it has to move at least combat speed pg. 68, but if he can't move (as he is already in btb contact), then can he still tank shock?

I figured he can, being that it is a freaking land raider, but as far as Raw, it wasn't connecting in my brain.

If you move 1", you are moving at combat speed.-- this is to prevent you 'rotating' the tank to cause a tank shock. You have to actually move. You can always rotate- doesn't count at moving.

Remember for tank shock, you turn, then you move in a straight line a number of inches declared.

[Deathwolf]

Yesterday I was playing a game against an Imperial Guard force. My opponent tank shocked me with a squadron of 2 Devil Dogs. The problem we encountered was we were not sure as to if I would only get 1 death or glory attempts or 2. The obvious problem with only 1 DoG is that the model would die even if it succeeded in destroying or stopping the first tank.

In the tank shock section it states that:
"one of the models in the vehicle's path can stand and attempt to destroy it rather than move out of the way. The model nominated for this heroic duty makes a single attack against the incoming tank."

We resolved this as is refers to the tank as a singular and therefore if a squadron of 2 tanks preformed a tank shock, I was then allowed to use 2 DoG attacks from 2 different models.

Thoughts?

[Gotthammer]

ok thanks for the clarification on that.

I was curious ,cause my situation was a tank (land raider) was covered in a 30 boy mob, there for he couldn't do a normal move.What really messed me up, is in BRB it says it has to move at least combat speed pg. 68, but if he can't move (as he is already in btb contact), then can he still tank shock?

I figured he can, being that it is a freaking land raider, but as far as Raw, it wasn't connecting in my brain.

The boyz should have moved 1" back and been out of BtB contact after the assault phase. Vehicles, aside from walkers, are never locked in combat.




Yesterday I was playing a game against an Imperial Guard force. My opponent tank shocked me with a squadron of 2 Devil Dogs. The problem we encountered was we were not sure as to if I would only get 1 death or glory attempts or 2. The obvious problem with only 1 DoG is that the model would die even if it succeeded in destroying or stopping the first tank.

In the tank shock section it states that:
"one of the models in the vehicle's path can stand and attempt to destroy it rather than move out of the way. The model nominated for this heroic duty makes a single attack against the incoming tank."

We resolved this as is refers to the tank as a singular and therefore if a squadron of 2 tanks preformed a tank shock, I was then allowed to use 2 DoG attacks from 2 different models.

Thoughts?

I'd say two, so long as they were different models making the attack.

[Nabterayl]

Yesterday I was playing a game against an Imperial Guard force. My opponent tank shocked me with a squadron of 2 Devil Dogs. The problem we encountered was we were not sure as to if I would only get 1 death or glory attempts or 2. The obvious problem with only 1 DoG is that the model would die even if it succeeded in destroying or stopping the first tank.
If he Tank Shocked with both vehicles (nothing says he has to, as long as he can remain in squadron coherency), then I'd say each Tank Shock should be resolved individually. As you point out, the Tank Shock rules only ever speak of a single vehicle performing a Tank Shock. This could mean that you received two Death or Glory attempts, or even that the first Devil Dog Tank Shocks your squad away and thus the second Devil Dog Tank Shocks into thin air. It could also mean that the same model in your squad could make both Death or Glory attempts, assuming he survived his first one.


The boyz should have moved 1" back and been out of BtB contact after the assault phase. Vehicles, aside from walkers, are never locked in combat.
I think you're misreading that rule, Gotthammer. It's true that non-walker vehicles are never locked in combat, but it does not follow that the assaulting models are repulsed. They stay in base-to-base contact (because no rule says they have to leave); they simply aren't locked in combat despite being in base-to-base.

[Gotthammer]

So I was... but, checking the rulebook, it does say that if a vehicle wishes to pivot that you shift the attacking models out of the way then place them back against the vehicle, so same effect really.

[mansalad]

What would happen if a vehicle performed a tank shock coming in from off the table and a Death or Glory was attempted that resulted in the vehicle being stunned or immobilized?

[Tynskel]

The game explodes. A crack (similar to Dr. Who) opens, and your existence is removed--- you will be completely forgotten...

Current rulings, from allllll over the place, is that things (stuff) that would prevent you from moving will not prevent you from entering the board.

In this case, you would enter the board the minimum to get onto the board, and then your move would stop due to the Immobilized/stunned. Very similar to what happens in Death or Glory--- the vehicle moves until coming into contact and causing the Death or Glory roll.

[SeattleDV8]

The boyz should have moved 1" back and been out of BtB contact after the assault phase. Vehicles, aside from walkers, are never locked in combat.

Yes , vehicles can't be locked in combat, but remain engaged.
No you do not move infantry back 1" ....That was a 4th Ed. rule.

[whitestar333]

Yes , vehicles can't be locked in combat, but remain engaged.
No you do not move infantry back 1" ....That was a 4th Ed. rule.

In fact, you absolutely keep them in base contact because if the vehicle does not move, the models get to attack again in the next assault phase. This is particularly effective when immobilizing/stunning but not destroying a pesky vehicle. Unless the troops are killed by other means, they get another swing at it (pardon the pun).

[Jwolf]

What would happen if a vehicle performed a tank shock coming in from off the table and a Death or Glory was attempted that resulted in the vehicle being stunned or immobilized?

The vehicle, and everyone in it, would fail to enter the board, and be destroyed.

[Tynskel]

The vehicle, and everyone in it, would fail to enter the board, and be destroyed.

Please quote a page on that one. Where does the book say that?

That's serious business to destroy that many points of stuff.

Ex.
Khan
Librarian
7 Assault Terminators
Land Raider Crusader with Bells n' Whistles

Outflanking and Tank Shock.
~850 Points

[Jwolf]

P. 94 - "You must roll for reserves as soon as possible and must bring them onto the table as soon as they are available."

So once they are available, you must move them onto the board. If you cannot do so, what do you suppose happens if they are not destroyed?

There are passages that point ot individual models being destroy in the Vehicle section, which is what I base this interpretation on.

I see no rule ever discussing what to do with anything that cannot be deployed legally at start, from normal Reserve, or when Outflanking. I know I've never seen it interpreted as anything other than destroyed when a model cannot be legally placed on the board, though. Do you have some basis for believing differently?

[SeattleDV8]

It is one of those unaddressed areas in the rules.
The only place that we come close is the Deep Strike rules and the Mishap table.
In those rules you have equal chances of being destroyed or being delayed (leaving behind the misplaced result which would not be a good fit for this discussion)

[Hugz4Genestealers]

It is one of those unaddressed areas in the rules.
The only place that we come close is the Deep Strike rules and the Mishap table.
In those rules you have equal chances of being destroyed or being delayed (leaving behind the misplaced result which would not be a good fit for this discussion)

I see this as a fitting adaptation. Imagine, in the case of outflankers, you send part of your army around the front line of the main engagement to attempt a flank attack. However, when they get into position, the enemy are waiting for them, resulting in them either being caught in an exposed position(outside of the main engagement, i.e. off the board) and cut down, or forced to relocate and make another attempt, which would delay them joining the fray. Seems like a reasonable ruling.

[Lerra]

Ideally there would be a mishap table for this kind of thing. Outright destruction seems a bit harsh, especially from a story perspective (the table edge exists only for gameplay purposes. Why would a Land Raider be destroyed because of a barrier that doesn't exist?).

By RAW, there doesn't seem to be a clear answer, but destruction is probably the most accurate solution, even if it doesn't sit well with me. In the Necron codex, warriors that can't enter play are simply bounced back into reserve. That makes sense for something that is unable to enter play at all, but what about a tank that is immobilized/wrecked on the table edge? I'd probably move the tank onto the table fully, or mark its location and play the game as though there was an immobilized land raider hanging off the table (although that comes with its own set of complications).

In my mind it ought to go something like this:

"Table Edge" Mishap Table

1-2: Momentum brings the unit fully onto the table. Move models out of the way so that the unit can continue directly forward until it is fully on the field of play.
3-4: Non-vehicle units retreat and are placed back into reserve. Vehicles that can move are also placed back into reserve with any occupants. If vehicle cannot move due to a damage result, it is destroyed. Any occupants retreat and are placed back into reserve using the same deployment method that was declared for their transport.
5-6: The unit is repelled from the battle and counts as destroyed.

[Tynskel]

P. 94 - "You must roll for reserves as soon as possible and must bring them onto the table as soon as they are available."

So once they are available, you must move them onto the board. If you cannot do so, what do you suppose happens if they are not destroyed?

There are passages that point ot individual models being destroy in the Vehicle section, which is what I base this interpretation on.

I see no rule ever discussing what to do with anything that cannot be deployed legally at start, from normal Reserve, or when Outflanking. I know I've never seen it interpreted as anything other than destroyed when a model cannot be legally placed on the board, though. Do you have some basis for believing differently?

The rulebook rarely has you destroy your models due to your own actions-- all those passages are very specific combinations of rules and are explicit.

Since the rule on p.94 state you 'must'-- then you get onto the board somehow. If you are 'immobilized' during tank shock- you move onto the board, and then stop as soon as you can. This would be following both of the rules as much as possible.

[karandras]

There is nothing to answer this in the rules. I would rule that the model is placed the minimum distance to be fully on the table. The board edge is not the end of the world, it is simply the playing surface.

Lerra - I like the table, that would fix it!

This actually just came up due to a roll of a 1 on a dangerous terrain test at the board edge at a GT Circuit event I attended. The judges huddled up and collectively ruled to place the model on the table the minimum distance required to keep it from falling onto the ground.

I don't see why anyone would rule to destroy a stunned vehicle and its occupants based on such a result. Especially when considering how loosely people on this forum view the emergency disembark rules. If an explosion of their transport that is surrounded by enemy models won't wipe them out, why should having their transport stunned at the board edge destroy them to a man??? I just don't see the logic in that.

[Dooley]

I think you should have talked that out come over with your opponent.
Personally I would say if you stopped the transport off board then yeah they are all dead.. mwahahaha!
Should have taken that into consideration before he tried to tank shock him! The Price of failure on Death of Glory is well....death! The price of failure for Attempted Tank shock should equally be DEATH!

Or the Unit inside could simply be placed back in reserves and walk on to the board the turn they show up!