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Bigred
04-23-2010, 06:34 PM
via Grimstonefire: (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290823.page)


General Stuff
All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
528+ pages. Full colour
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
The book is up for advance order from a swedish store. £45.
Definitely going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 10th
Rulebook will come with next black box, so all shops can make demo day by 12th June.

There will be a "General's" Edition as well as a "Gunner's" Edition: Both are the basic rulebook along with multiple different gimmicks, as golden templates, dice, angulometer, combat-resolution-calculator, markers and more. "General's Edition" is supported with a white linen bag with two silver coins attached to it, so if you fall in battle, they may put them on your eyes...


ARMY SELECTION AND OTHER BITS

Army construction is moving back to percentages.

25% max lords (includes mounts)
25% max heroes
25% min core
50% max special
25% max rare

Everyone who saw a test game are saying it’s 25% lord 25% hero

Just so I am clear on this, as there has been some misunderstanding, you can have a lord level character leading a small army if you want to (within the points), you don't have to take a hero as you do currently. I have heard nothing about unit champions being the general

Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type - Examples; No more than 3 units of Chaos Knights, or 3 units of Forsaken etc in the same army.
Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type - Examples; No more than 2 Hellcannons, or 2 Chaos Giants etc in the same army.
High Elves ignore all these restrictions as they have the Elite Army special rule.
These numbers are increased when having games of 3000 points or more. (Up to 6 special and 4 rare) Could be +1 of the same type of special and rare per 1000pts..

Allied Forces

Allied forces will not get a % allocation. However, rules for using allied forced (i.e. an updated allied forces chart) are in the rulebook.
Allies are now split into 3 groups:

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings

The allies rules are intended to be used by more than 2 players. You are not supposed to use more than one armybook in your army.
Allies from the same grouping are allowed to use the other army General’s leadership, but cause panic in units of the other army if they are forced to flee. If an allied unit is forced to flee through another ally from a different group, the stationary unit counts as dangerous terrain (see below under terrain).

Example: High Elves (Force of Order) flee through Warriors of Chaos (Force of Destruction).
If you are allied with Dark Elves or Skaven you have to roll every friendly turn in order to see what sort of ally they are (need more info on this).


There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
You may measure distances whenever you want.

MOVEMENT

Single models have a 90 degree arc of sight. Units still have a 45 degrees arc of sight

Standard Movement

Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform).


(edit: It seems I am very close with this, the champion one is only by process of deduction. Still awaiting further confirmation on all this)

Standard Bearer = Re-roll one of the charging dice
Musician = At the end of their movement phase, a unit with a musician may reform for free.
Champion = ?

(edit: As it has caused some confusion, these are all only additions to what all the command models currently do)

Charging.

Rumoured to be:

Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 use 2 highest)

+1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)
Units charged by multiple enemies can change their charge reaction. For instance, you hold against the first enemy that charges you, then change it to flee when the second unit charges you.

Failed Charge

Rumoured to be the higher die of your 2D6 roll (+ basic movement).

Fliers

Move 10 " and march 20 ". They ignore terrain whilst moving. While fleeing or pursuing, they use their ground movement. (note: the ground movement part may not be entirely correct)

Fast Cavalry

Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game, but cannot charge an enemy in the first turn, and cannot end their movement within 12”.

Fleeing/Pursuing

Fleeing/pursuit is rolled for the same way as charging. Units fleeing through impassable terrain and enemy units; see below under dangerous terrain.

Wheeling

Units can wheel up to 90 degrees without penalty.

Pursuit

When you charge and reach a fleeing unit, you only wipe it out if you pass a Ld test.

Marching.

Double Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Reforming

Units containing a musician can do a free reform after failing a charge if they pass a Ld test. Units may reform after the combat phase, but cannot have less models in base contact. Units that lost the combat resolution have to make a Ld test in order to reform.
At the end of their movement phase, a unit with a musician may reform for free. Not sure if it can shoot after this.


Heavy cavalry

Unchanged. Rumour was wrong, heavy cav march as normal.

Skirmishers

Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, with a 1 inch gap between each and every model. -Avian and Kah-thurak - Note. The gap between them may actually be the same size as the base width.

X = Model
O = 1" Gap between

X O X O X O X O X
O O O O O O O O O
X O X O X O X O X

Skirmishers still rank up in combat, but as they do not get a rank bonus they cannot negate enemy rank bonuses. As long as they are not charging, Skirmishers can reform on the move as often as they wish and also march and shoot.
Skirmishers are always stubborn in a forest.
360 Line of sight for skirmishers. Some have said this is in and some have said it is definitely not. I will edit one out later.


Redirecting charges

If I have understood this correctly, it seems we’re going back to 6th ed rules. You can redirect a charge at any other valid target following the normal rules for declaring charges, not just at an enemy unit lying on your direct pursuit path.

MAGIC

NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories

Edit: I've sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from anonymous sources:

Generating Power and Dispel Dice

Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)

Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
You may not channel while fleeing, off the board or when you suffer from stupidity..

Maximum Power and Dispel Dice

The maximum number of power or dispel dice you may have at any time is 12. This includes any power/dispel dice generated by special rules, spells and/or magic items.

Casting Spells

To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.

It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:

When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.

Lost Control Chart

Roll of 1: Could be S10 hit for caster and models in base contact.

Roll of 4: The wizard is sucked into the warp and the large template is centred over him. S10 hits for models under a 5” template, centred on the wizard. Also, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3 your wizard is plunged into the realm of chaos, ond a 4+ you lose D6 power dice instead.

Determining Spells

Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.
While writing the armylist, you will have to note which lore your magic users will use. You may not wait until you see the enemies forces. - I'm not sure how well that will actually work in practice... :confused:
Next you need to see which casters can have which spells. Roll D6 and see which spell you got, similar to how it is now. Any spell can be swapped for the Basic Spell. If you roll double for a spell you have to re-roll until you have the required number for the wizard level.
As no two spells from the rulebook Lores can be duplicated in the army (except the Basic Spell), if you want more than 1 wizard to have spells from the same lore you now have a choice to make.

Example: You have 3 wizards you want to use the Lore of Fire. A level 4, a level 3 and a level 1.

Do you give the level 4 wizard 3 spells + the Basic Spell? Or 4 spells and leave the remaining 2 spells plus the Basic Spell for the level 3 wizard? The level 1 wizard has no options other than the Basic Spell in this example, as all the other spells have already been taken.

There are some exceptions to this way of choosing spells:
Bound spells
Spells the caster knows "naturally", eg Warrior Priests or Khemri Priests
Spells that are not rolled for but bought, i.e. Necromancers.


Bound spells

Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, but instead of your caster's power level, you add the level of the magic item. (Not 100 % sure on this one)

Every magic user has access to the pool.

Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian

Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
Each lore to get a mega spell.
Spells can be chosen, not rolled for, but can't be duplicated in the same army with the exception of the first spell of the lore -Avian (more likely)
If a wizard fails to reach the casting value it is not a miscast, they just cannot cast any more spells that magic phase. -Avian (more likely)
Some spells will scale up.


Spells are now categorized. There are: Missiles, Curses, Buffs, Direct Damage and Power Whirl spells.

Missiles: Require Line of Sight and may not be cast into close combat.
Curses: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment
Buffs: Support your own troops
Direct damage: Spells that use templates or apply to the whole target unit.
Power whirls: Apply to all of the battlefield or move across the table.!?


It is rumoured that ‘remains in play’ spells are not auto dispelled by casting another spell.

Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a wound from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the caster is granted a Bonus of +3 when casting a fire spell upon the same target.


Missiles:
Fireball; which sounds like it could be D6 S4, or 2D6 S5, or 3D6 S6 hits.

Curses:

Buffs:
Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. Grants +1 to wound and flaming attacks.

Direct damage:

Power whirls:


Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Special Bonus: Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound. This causes flaming attacks and ignores armour saves.


Missiles:

Curses:
Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.

Buffs:
Possibly a spell that grants every unit in 12" scaly skin (5+ armour)
Direct damage:

Power whirls:


Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

Special Bonus: After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type.


Missiles:

Curses:

Buffs:
One spell you can switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).

Direct damage:

Power whirls:


Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Grrrr (Ghur)

Special Bonus:


Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:


Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus:


Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:


Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus:


Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:


Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus:


Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:


Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each wound caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ you are granted an additional power dice.


Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:
Purple Sun. A crystal sphere drifting above the battlefield. It uses the 3 inch template, moving artillerydice multiplied by 3 inches from the wizard into a chosen direction. Each model touched has to pass a I-test or is removed from play.


And the other rumours:

Each spell can be cast once per magic phase, regardless of how many casters there are. - Avian says this is possibly speculation

Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation)


SHOOTING

Single models have a 90° field of view.

Fire in 2 ranks.

All missile weapons fire in 2 ranks as standard
Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills. -Harry I think


Salvo Fire

Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots. Salvo fire only applies if you haven't moved and not when you stand and shoot.


True Line of sight

Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.

War Machines

Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now

War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter. Take with a big pinch of salt at this stage.


Shooting a cannon

You nominate a spot then roll the two artillery dice for bounces. If you hit a unit, the strength decreases like a bolt thrower's bolt, starting at S10. If the first bounce hits a wall, the shot is wasted but the wall is destroyed.

Change to Wound table

All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.

COMBAT

NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.

Supportive Attacks

Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
This is only for models fighting to the front. Units charged in the flank or rear only fight in 1 rank, but being charged in the flank or rear will not stop units fighting in multiple ranks to the front.
Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with a maximum of 3 attacks per model from the second rank (more likely).

Cavalry

Riders only in the second rank may attack.

Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people

Casualties are strictly removed from the back. [extremely likely].

Horde

10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. Monstrous infantry like Ogres need to be only 6 wide to benefit from this rule. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian

Stubborn

If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry

Unit Strength

Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian

Rank bonuses

Unchanged. Up to 3.

Monstrous Creatures

40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).

Crush them!

Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength (includes Great Eagles and Disks). (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)

Destroy them!

Larger Creatures and Monsters do D6 attacks instead of 1 attack for crush them. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)

Striking in Initiative order

Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).

Chariots

S7 autokill is gone. - Avian (more likely)

Outnumbering Enemy

There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution

Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Change to Wound table

All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.

Breath Weapons

It seems a monster with a breath weapon may use it once per battle in either the shooting phase (no partials under the template), OR in combat (2D6 hits with the breath weapons strength). This is in initiative order. At the moment it looks like it will be in addition to regular attacks, not instead of.

Parry

The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save.

It is not a second ward save (afaik).
It is not a ward save ontop of an armour save (afaik)
It does not stack (afaik).


Overrunning

When you destroy an enemy unit you can either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking.


WEAPONS

Combat Weapons

Great weapons Always strike last (this overrides any army book rules). Can be used in 2 ranks!
Cavalry armed with Great Weapons have +2 Strength

Missile Weapons

Longbows Same. See shooting above for more rules.
Pistols have 12" range.

Thrown Weapons

Stand and Shoot reaction: The only weapons you can stand and shoot with if the enemy charges you from within their basic movement range are thrown weapons.


PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES


The number of universal special rules has doubled. Presumably this is just drawing in some from the army books themselves.


Units can reroll all leadership tests within 12" of the battle standard.
If the General is on a Large Target mount the Ld range is 18” instead.

Stubborn

Stubborn units can use the general's leadership for break tests if within 12".

Panic

Seems to be unchanged


Fear and Terror

Fear/Terror tests are taken at the start of every combat phase.

If you fail the Fear/Terror test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well.

Terror comes with a chance to run away, but no longer has the 6” range, it is decided in combat. Fear does not make enemies flee.

Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).

Killing Blow

Still works as normal, but there is something called a Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with larger things like Ogres.

Always Strike Last

Models with great weapons will always strike last

Always Strike First

ASL combined with ASF cancel each other out. Strike in initiative order.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy

You still get +1 attack on the charge (front rank only). If the enemy is within Movement +12”, it has to declare a charge unless it surpresses the frenzy by passing a ld test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Magic Resistance

This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

For things that already have a Ward Save, Flesh Hounds for instance, they have a 5+ Ward save already, and MR(3). This gives them a 5+ save against shooting/ combat, and a 2+ Ward Save against magic.

Regeneration

Regeneration will come in several types. The Slanns ability for example will grant him Regeneration (3+), while there is a mundane magic item that grants regeneration (6+).

MAGIC ITEMS


Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.

10-20 items in each category.

Dwarfs and Daemons of Chaos do not have access to Common Magic Items. Army book values for magic items override the Rulebook if different.


Staff of Channelling Wizard channels additional PD at the roll of 5+ instead of 6
Screaming Blade: Bearer causes Fear
Potion of Strength: 20 points, +D3 Strength for one turn
Potion of Toughness: 20 points, +D3 Toughness for one turn
Tower: There is a very strange enchanted item which is called something like "foldable castle". The bearer of this item may place a tower in his deployment zone at the beginning of game.!?


OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS

Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.


15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required units to capture objectives (not just core). Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives


Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.


A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles


Terrain

D6+4 compulsory terrain.
Terrain will not just affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
The rulebook includes terrain rules for all the GW products.
There are rules for dangerous terrain, and for some unit types different types of terrain are treated as dangerous.

Dangerous Terrain

Roll D6 for every model, on a 1 it loses a wound

Forests

Roll a D6 the first[u/] time any model enters a forest, the forest will stay like this for the rest of the battle. Note that the numbers for the roles below may not actually be the numbers, but the effects are;

1 = Regular Forest
2 = Ghostly Forest - a unit standing in it causes Fear
3 = Blood Forest - if magic is cast on a unit standing in the forest it suffers 1d6 hits at S4, and then the forest moves 2d6" into a random direction…
4 = Mushroom Forest - all units in it have Stupidity, except for Goblins, who become Stubborn.
5 = Poisonous Forest – it is treated as ‘dangerous terrain’. The unit standing in it has Poisoned attacks.
6 = Finding a magic item in the woods.? Or this one could be a unit charging out of a cursed forest causes fear.

Cavalry [u]always treats a forest as ‘dangerous terrain’ (see above), regardless of what type of forest it is.
Fighting in woods is -1 CR for ranked infantry and +1 CR for skirmishers. Might be worse for cavalry. – Avian

Rivers

Seems this will be similar to forests, you make a role to see what type of river it is.
One of them is Blood Flow, which makes the unit that attacks from the river cause fear.

Arcane Ruins

Arcane Ruines allow a mage in rage to roll up to 4 dices for channelling.


Scenario: Hold the Temple
A Chaos temple is in the middle of the battlefield. Before the game it was rolled who was in charge of the place. The army that rolled higher on a D6 was entitled to put one of their Core Units there before the beginning of the game. The objective was to have any unit (not just Core) there at the end of the game in order to win. The Chaos Temple allowed for 'sacrificing' the soul of a Champion/Character for random stats boost (or, on the roll of 1, a quick and painful death.)


Discredited rumours
Fight-until-someone-breaks
Lapping around
Armour Save Modifiers changing. They’re not.
One Save.. Apparently armour/ ward/ regeneration saves are not changing!? Shame.

Not much longer now...

TheBitzBarn
04-24-2010, 12:26 AM
These seem to be the most balanced and reasonable rumors I have read yet

eldargal
04-24-2010, 02:08 AM
I think this edition will get me back into WFB. So far all the complaints about the rumours have consisted of "I'm going to have to change the way I play my army?! A CURSE ON YOU GW!" or "OMG I'm not going to be able to take 2-3 fully kitted out characters and minimal actual troops in small games, wtf?!".

Fizyx
04-24-2010, 06:59 AM
The rumors of 25% minimum core points cost plus the second rank fighting makes me think I should break out the five boxes of Chaos Warriors I have yet to paint and get cracking.

Not to mention the new Trolls + 3-wide 40mm ranks. I was going to buy the new trolls anyways, I might just get more than two boxes now, lol.

Basically, I'm a little giddy right now.

Jim

joescalise
04-25-2010, 06:28 AM
I like the new magic rumors, sounds like it will be fun.

RazorMind
04-25-2010, 10:58 AM
the movement sounds god awful. measure from the furtherst model and just move and form up how you wnat, bleh, might as well make it 40K

Hope I am misunderstanding that rumor.

Kieranator K82
04-25-2010, 04:29 PM
the movement sounds god awful. measure from the furtherst model and just move and form up how you wnat, bleh, might as well make it 40K

Hope I am misunderstanding that rumor.

I hope we both are. What I got from the phrase, "Measure the distance for the furthest moving model," was that you measure from the model that is moving furthest. Now I'm not entirely sure how or why models in a unit would be moving further than the others, so maybe I've mistranslated this too.

RocketRollRebel
04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
I've really been flirting with the idea of starting WHFB for a while here and I like what I'm seeing here. The rigid movement of FB has always kinda bummed me out. That and the high overhead that seems to come with starting a WHFB army as opposed to a 40k army is another down side but I'm with a gaming group now that plays a decent amount of FB so it's gotten me more interested for sure.

Bigred
04-25-2010, 10:32 PM
That movement rumor is pretty much how formations move in War of the Ring. I had heard for awhile that WotR was being used as a testbed for certain rules that were eventually meant for WFB 8th, so this doesn't seem to far out of place.

AirHorse
04-26-2010, 05:42 AM
It might be to stop massive abuse from these supposed horde units that are 10+ wide reforming to pull off an epic move in a sort of swing step style movement :P

Mars Ultor
04-27-2010, 09:53 AM
Movement: The need to change movement leaves me bewildered - but maybe randomness won't matter as much if there's no great advantage to charging (though we don't know that yet). Units SHOULD have to wheel to avoid each other and from getting mixed in and confused (i like how this worked on ROME: TOTAL WAR - oldie but goodie)

Percentages: I'm glad to see that. Anybody else tired of meeting Archaon in every little skirmish with Chaos?? I'd hate to be in charge of his social calendar. Saving the big boys for major engagements will be a good thing. In this I agree with Eldargal above - very well put - more core units and less Herohammer! Also, I never use minor characters like Engineers because they take up precious character slots. This way you can use more characters if you buy cheaper ones. More flexible. Sounds good to me.

It also sound like they might have taken a page from Warhammer historical with big units not breaking immediately. In Warhammer Ancient Battles I play imperial Romans, and you may slaughter the Celts, but if they outnumber you 2:1 then they "Fall Back in Good Order", basically a pushback but not broken. A very good rule - I mean, even Chaos knights should be overwhelmed by sheer numbers of gobos or clanrats or halberdiers, etc. (remember the fight with the Kurgan against the Scots in Highlander? Sure, he ran McCleod through, but the Scots jumped him and swept him away).

Objectives: I never liked this idea - a very 40K thing, not what you expect from many major medieval engagements. I mean, the hill might be part of the pre-battle skirmishing for high ground or for besieging a town, but the main objective was to wipe away the enemy. In most battles I remember, the losing army retreats or is scattered - they don't stay to hold a hillock. But, hey, if it encourages more Core units then I'm down with that.

Overall, I like it. Hope most of these prove true.

RogueGeneralHunter
04-28-2010, 06:30 AM
" Combat will be resolved in initiative order."

Except for charge situations I think this is already the rule. If this is an attempt to speed things up using a system that is like the way it's done in 40K then I don't think it will work. Perhaps I am in the minority here but I think the way fantasy currently handles charges is more realistic than the 40K method. (Assuming they give them an extra attack on the charge in 8th)
If they don't then why charge at all?

Lord Azaghul
04-28-2010, 06:35 AM
" Combat will be resolved in initiative order."

Except for charge situations I think this is already the rule. If this is an attempt to speed things up using a system that is like the way it's done in 40K then I don't think it will work. Perhaps I am in the minority here but I think the way fantasy currently handles charges is more realistic than the 40K method. (Assuming they give them an extra attack on the charge in 8th)
If they don't then why charge at all?

This rumour is a huge questionmark to me right now. It is supposedly one of the most 'confirmed' rumours, and I'm not sure I get it. It seems to remove charging as a factor in the game. Obvioulsy things like 'lances, and spears' will still recieve there S bonus, but it seems very annoying that my Dwarves or my O&G will NEVER get to strike before any elf or rat. It fact it kind of pisses me off its its true.
So at this point I have to assume that there is something I don't understand to all of this.

Mars Ultor
04-29-2010, 07:33 AM
Really, I'm not sure that charging should have ever been that big a factor in combat, except for cavalry. I mean, it should give you some bonus, but all your guys going first and wiping out the first rank so that none of the enemy gets to attack back and they instantly lose is just plain unrealistic (even for a fantasy battle!). It has often been cited by ancient scholars or historians that combats devolved into something of a pushing/ hacking/stabbing match (think rugby with bladed weapons) that was not instantaneously resolved, and I've seen one quote that said that rarely was it that the side with more didn't push apart the other side. Therefore, I like the second rank attacking rule to represent guys stepping up to attack and fill in the gaps. I think that the chargers should go first, but each side should just attack with whatever is in their front rank + spear ranks (rules for spears and attacking characters being the same as present). It'd give everyone a chance to earn their points but quality still gets a chance to triumph.

As for the above concern about Dwarves, at least with random movement they may get more chances to charge if the enemy falls short more often. And maybe they'll get an Initiative bonus for charging. I'm sure the I2 armies would'nt complain.

gcsmith
04-29-2010, 09:28 AM
random charge movements should have no place in fantasy, afterall its a wargame, one with a tournament setting, Placement will mean nothing if your charger 'stalls' I mean what is that all about, and some rules mention charging at double so ther must be some misunderstanding somewhere

Lord Azaghul
04-29-2010, 09:43 AM
random charge movements should have no place in fantasy, afterall its a wargame, one with a tournament setting, Placement will mean nothing if your charger 'stalls' I mean what is that all about, and some rules mention charging at double so ther must be some misunderstanding somewhere

Actually I disagree. Randomness should be more of a factor in the game (especial over 'I win button' powergamers) I don't think charges would/should be consistant, even in a wargame. Troops trip over one another, the fervor of the charging troops were misjudges, the groud was riddle with pot holes...whatever. I like the random factor, it means that all my games will not longer be: I get one or two rounds of shooting out of my WM's, then I'm charged by everthing turn 2 or 3. If this is rumour is true it means players will be more cautious and more bold.

RazorMind
04-29-2010, 04:22 PM
latest stuff on terrain makes it sound better and better for Wood Elves

Terrain can now cause casualties, D6 for each figure, a 1 means a wound.

Also, random magic items can be found in terrain/woodss. all rumors of course :-)

mikethefish
04-30-2010, 02:02 AM
latest stuff on terrain makes it sound better and better for Wood Elves

Terrain can now cause casualties, D6 for each figure, a 1 means a wound.

Also, random magic items can be found in terrain/woodss. all rumors of course :-)

Actually I believe that Wood Elves are going to get hit a little bit hard with the new edition, thanks mainly to the Step Up rule. Most of how things like Wardancers are effective is that they slaughter all the models in the front line of a given unit, and then are free from reprisal. Now that the enemies in the 2nd rank can step up and attack, this might be hard for them to work properly.

Although I do think the "archers shoot in 2 ranks" is a good thing though. I guess it's kind of a mixed bag for the Wood Elves.

Personally it seems pretty much all good for my dwarves though, so I am happy there!

gcsmith
04-30-2010, 05:54 AM
Most of what im reading says they are trying to remove skill from the game, Random this, random that. A dice roll for every little thing removes all skill as your actions mean nothing if u roll bad, Also how would walking though the woods cause damage?????? maybe for plate wearing Empire and chaos knights, but not for nimble high elves. Luckily or at least I hope most of these will prove false.

Old_Paladin
05-01-2010, 10:30 AM
The thing is that more dice rolling actually lessen randomization.
As most 40K players know, elite armies with little dice rolls either win big or lose big, while hoard armies tend to keep the middle ground.
If you're only rolling 5 dice for the number of attacks, one or two bad rolls is a hard blow. If you're rolling 15 attacks things even out and even a few poor rolls isn't the end of the fight.
So the argument that more dice means less skill is actually the opposite; more dice allows the trends to be applied more constantly meaning skill become more of a factor; not dumb luck.


It will also depend on the situation: assuming the rumors are true and you get M+1d6 charge range (thats an average of 7-8 for human type infantry, but up to 10).
If, near the end of the game, you have one infantry block that must charge to win the game and the enemy is ~9 inches away; then yes, the game will be decided by random luck. But if you put yourself in such a position, it was your own skill at fault.

If however you're looking to get off 3 or 4 charges midgame, you know that you shouldn't attempt them at long range and if the bulk of the enemy army is ~8 inches away, the majority of your force is going to make it in.

gcsmith
05-02-2010, 05:31 AM
The thing you stated was more dice rolls in one go or as I shall call it, density, This is adding dice roles where there were none. and since its 1 dice roll per unit it has a density of 1 dpu So its increasing the luck involved. If however it was 2d6 pick the highest then it would add some factors of say guys were exhausted but theres still a chance they get carried along etc,

AirHorse
05-02-2010, 08:56 AM
Random movement is only a bad thing if you ask me, movement should be the one area where you have complete control of your units. Once everyone gets caught up in melee and spells start burning folk up thats where you should lose control.

Not only do I think it will take out alot of skill with unit positioning, but I also think its just gonna leave an awful lot of frustrated players who roll three 1's for their charging cavalry and get torn to shreds by the enemies charge next turn.

Im all for randomness in the game, but not in movement :/

gcsmith
05-02-2010, 09:32 AM
The only thing that gives this credibility is 2 things 1) the war of the rings rules being used by historical and 2) The GT in Britain is several mini ones now, not one big one.
That could mean they admit its less competitive.
However, what goes against this is GW in my history of playing have only had one bad rules writer and thats crudance, sure hes likes Imperial but screws over all non imps.
Since no 'retarded' writers work on fantasy I expect better, especially with jervis involved somewhere. Tho allesio leaving may leave things to mystery.

eldargal
05-02-2010, 05:14 PM
The rumours mention random charges, not random movement. Random charges actually make since, history is replete with examples of failed charges, misjudged distances, counter charges and all kinds of chaotic circumstances which have made war so unpredictable.

i'm not fussed about random charges one way or the other, but people will adapt. If random charges are included then it will force people to consider how they position their units to maximise their chances of a successful charge. I think it will add a nice new strategic element to the game.


Random movement is only a bad thing if you ask me, movement should be the one area where you have complete control of your units. Once everyone gets caught up in melee and spells start burning folk up thats where you should lose control.

Not only do I think it will take out alot of skill with unit positioning, but I also think its just gonna leave an awful lot of frustrated players who roll three 1's for their charging cavalry and get torn to shreds by the enemies charge next turn.

Im all for randomness in the game, but not in movement :/

AirHorse
05-03-2010, 05:20 AM
Random charges is random movement :/

Thing is, I just dont see why they would feel a need to add a random distance to it to simulate misjudged charges when you can already misjudge a charge distance anyway, assuming that its coming and thats the reasoning behind it of course :p.

I just dont feel that it adds any strategic depth to the game whatso ever, just forces people to have their units on your face already or rely on luck, because lets face it if you take the average unit and add d6 to their movement distance for a charge thats alot of randomness, way too much for such an important part of the whole game.

If most of the rumours are true(and i assume a good bunch of it will be by now) then im overall quite happy with them, I just dont see the need to put such a huge random element on getting units into combat when they are aparently already revamping the whole combat system to prevent chargers wiping out all the available fighting models before they strike back anyway. Whats the point its just going to be frustrating for such an integral part of the game.

Lord Azaghul
05-03-2010, 06:20 AM
Actually lack of 'randomness' is part of the current problem in fantasy, most things are way to relieable. Before the 3 power armies it was said the game IS movement, and movement will still be very important, but it'll be nice to see the occational 19" charge from empire knights or the monumental failuire of the 9" charge by cold one knights. I personally like the idea.

My only rumour concern right now is magic, it sound more powerful and relieable (which is a bad thing) then it is right now BUT and a very big BUT, all the specifics on this are not in.
Overall however I remain optimistic.

gcsmith
05-03-2010, 06:29 AM
more reliable? the iressistables misscast as well which screws teclis over.

Lord Azaghul
05-03-2010, 06:33 AM
More dice and picking the spells you want, plus the phrase 'harder to miscast' keeps being thrown around.

eldargal
05-03-2010, 07:07 AM
A charge is a specific kind of movement directly related to combat, it is one specific kind of movement which may be made random. That does not amount to WFB having random movement.



Random charges is random movement :/

Thing is, I just dont see why they would feel a need to add a random distance to it to simulate misjudged charges when you can already misjudge a charge distance anyway, assuming that its coming and thats the reasoning behind it of course :p.

I just dont feel that it adds any strategic depth to the game whatso ever, just forces people to have their units on your face already or rely on luck, because lets face it if you take the average unit and add d6 to their movement distance for a charge thats alot of randomness, way too much for such an important part of the whole game.

If most of the rumours are true(and i assume a good bunch of it will be by now) then im overall quite happy with them, I just dont see the need to put such a huge random element on getting units into combat when they are aparently already revamping the whole combat system to prevent chargers wiping out all the available fighting models before they strike back anyway. Whats the point its just going to be frustrating for such an integral part of the game.

AirHorse
05-03-2010, 07:40 AM
What? I didnt say all movement was random, just charges(which is movement). Didnt mean it like that at all, and I definately didnt mean for it to look like a massive generalisation!

My point was that when a player makes choices about movement(so not compulsary movement) I dont think it should be random as its the one area of the game where you do have full control of your units, its where you make the real decisions about the battle and employ your tactics. Adding randomness to charges(which is a very important part of movement) will just frustrate alot of players.

I dunno, maybe its just the way I envision fantasy to be, but i really dont relish the idea of having charges fall short by huge margins(both as an attacker or a defender), like rolling 2 inches on 2d6. Spoils the idea of having blocks of units lined up to take charges while the attacker lines himself up to try and tackle those units, which is the way I have always envisioned fantasy(with cool heroes and a bunch of magic thrown in too :P).

thetallest
05-06-2010, 03:36 PM
A charge is a specific kind of movement directly related to combat, it is one specific kind of movement which may be made random. That does not amount to WFB having random movement.

I'm sorry Eldargal - but making charges random DOES fundamentally change the way WFB works and adds a random element to movement.

One of the major differences between a so-so player and a good player in WFB was the ability to judge when a charge was in range and when it wasn't. If charges are made to be random then I would say that AirHorse is bang-on correct.

Without knowing the full scope and having not had an opportunity to try out the new system, I can't say whether I will like it or not - but this is not something that I am happy to see at this time.

My armies may end up on ebay by the end of the year.

Nikephoros
05-06-2010, 04:08 PM
One of the major differences between a so-so player and a good player in WFB was the ability to judge when a charge was in range and when it wasn't. If charges are made to be random then I would say that AirHorse is bang-on correct.


I actually like the random charge distances. I cannot tell you how many games I've had a Mexican Standoff: My Chaos Knights standing 17" away from my opponents' Grail Knights, neither playing moving them, because they know to move them forward means the opponent will get the charge and that will likely be decisive. 3 turns of your best troops staring at each other doing nothing cannot be considered a good gameplay aspect.

eldargal
05-06-2010, 09:47 PM
You misunderstand what I mean. It does fundamentally chance the way gameplay works, but only adds a random element to one kind of combat specific movement. For the new edition to 'randomise movement' as some people say it would also need to randomize regular movement, marches and whatnot. I'm not quibbling over the huge shift in gameplay, I'm just saying that it does not amount to 'randomized movement'. It is randomized charging, that is all. It is a language issue rather than a rules issue.
When people start saying things like "omg they are randomizing movement' when they mean charges, you get some twits who don';t bother reading the rumours talking about rollig D6 for movement and all kinds of silly things.


I'm sorry Eldargal - but making charges random DOES fundamentally change the way WFB works and adds a random element to movement.

One of the major differences between a so-so player and a good player in WFB was the ability to judge when a charge was in range and when it wasn't. If charges are made to be random then I would say that AirHorse is bang-on correct.

Without knowing the full scope and having not had an opportunity to try out the new system, I can't say whether I will like it or not - but this is not something that I am happy to see at this time.

My armies may end up on ebay by the end of the year.

Old_Paladin
05-07-2010, 05:00 PM
I find that the random charge distance to be realistic.
If you think about it, you cannot run and stay in a good fighting formation. Have you ever heard about a pike formation running? No, since those weapons would get in the way. Did a Roman formation run? No, since it would break up a shield wall.

Quick marching makes sense; as the formation loosens for a non-combat situation which means soldiers and equipment aren't getting in the way of each other; then you get back into step, slow down and get ready to fight.

And remember that random charge distance will represent everything from a run that fails, a standard battle march and a full run that worked (as you can now go faster then a double move 1/3rd of the time on normal humans; and 1/2 the time with dwarves with a max of 9, a huge change for them!).

DarkAngelHopeful
05-13-2010, 10:47 AM
[QUOTE=RogueGeneralHunter;71668]" Combat will be resolved in initiative order."QUOTE]

With the rumor of combat being resolved in initiative order, will that negate the high elves special rule Speed of Asuryan (ASF)? I know that the rumors say they will get to re-roll to hit in combat if their initiative is higher than the model they are fighting, However I guess it just seems a little unclear to me if Always Strike First will be in effect with the new edition. For instance will a spearman with ASF strike before some other model with higher initiative still?

gcsmith
05-13-2010, 01:13 PM
Well the high elf rule specificly says they strike b4 everyone else

Lord Azaghul
05-13-2010, 01:18 PM
Yes, but they are modeling the core rules, and it sounds like they are updated all army books to be compatable for 8th at the same time.

its been repeating in a few more of the reliable rumours the ASL or great weapons, will over ride ASF.
So there may be a few things to be seen before we fully understand the rules impact.

BUT it should still override the initive order.

DarkAngelHopeful
05-14-2010, 01:44 AM
[QUOTE=BUT it should still override the initive order.[/QUOTE]


Thanks, this is more what I was hoping to hear. I hope ASF does infact override initiative order. Here's to hoping.

gcsmith
05-14-2010, 10:02 AM
Um Unless they screw with HE Great weapons have no afect as their own rule says asf is not affected by weapons

Old_Paladin
05-16-2010, 12:07 PM
If you listen to the latest podcast of Podhammer, they talk about some of the more solid rumors (from inside sources, they say).

Which does dicuss High Elves and ASF.

DarkAngelHopeful
05-17-2010, 02:30 AM
Cool, I'd love to check it out, however I can't get podhammer here with the government firewalls and such. But I do like to listen to Jeff Caroll and his boys.

eldargal
05-17-2010, 08:31 AM
Seems like we may be getting True Line of Sight in 8th edition. I'm not too pleased about that*, but I'm more than happy to put up with it if the 25% character cap is true.


*Despite all our terrain being based around realism rather than 14mm terraces on which to stand models conveniently.

Lord Azaghul
05-17-2010, 09:12 AM
Seems like we may be getting True Line of Sight in 8th edition. I'm not too pleased about that*, but I'm more than happy to put up with it if the 25% character cap is true.


*Despite all our terrain being based around realism rather than 14mm terraces on which to stand models conveniently.

Actually that's not too far of a devation from the current rule set. I think with the exception of woods, the current set does have a form of TLS. Hills and woods aren't infinately high, like they were in 6th ed.

As far as terrain goes I hope they make walls useful. In my area everyone avoids placing them on tables 'cause it takes you 3 turns to move over one! (difficult terrain, no marching.)

Sounds like we have a whole new game coming our way. I hope its a good one.

eldargal
05-18-2010, 12:53 AM
Its not so much the rule itself tha bothers me, but that introducing it is really just courting controversy in the community. If the rumour is true I dread the amount of *****ing and moaning it will produce.

Old_Paladin
05-18-2010, 02:04 PM
If the rumour is true I dread the amount of *****ing and moaning it will produce.

I one thing I have learned in my years of gaming is that there will always be *****ing and moaning about any changes that are done.

Look back at the major change for 6th to 7th; namely going from 4 columns to 5 for ranks there were people that claimed the world was ending. That their 16-18 model blocks of infantry were useless, it was impossible to field units of knights anymore (although this rule did hurt Orges and Minotaur armies).

I remember the old days of percentages, of rolling dice to determine the number of cards to draw for magic, of the unit killing Chaos Lord of Khorne with hydra blade (when frenzy doubled the number of attacks you made) and two wound rank and file beastman.

It will be a big change, but one that I feel is for the better. The state of Fantasy right now is in very poor condition; both the balance between armies and the high learnig curve means that it is not a game that encourages growth with new players (if you don't know which armies with simple beat you with almost no effort, it's not fun; if you're just learing about measuring distance, you have no chance against a 10+ year vetern that can place cannonballs and catapult stones to within half an inch).

Warp
05-19-2010, 01:43 AM
I agree that there will be moaning from someone no matter what.

Personally, I'm not too thrilled about random charge distances, but the ability to fight in multiple ranks is something I'm really looking forward to. The changes on fear and terror seem interesting, are they doing something about psychology in general? I freaking hate having a full unit of unmarked or nurgle Warriors of Chaos start legging it because their 5 dogs got shot to pieces in front of them..

Currently, the magic changes will hit me pretty hard, I basically have to rely on my sorcs to at least try and do some damage against a gunline. With this, I'll be shot even more to pieces while moving forward. But hey, it 's a new strategic element, so I'm overall very excited about the release.

eldargal
05-26-2010, 08:30 AM
A couple of rumours from Grimstonefire's thread over in warseer I thought I would highlight:


Definitely going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 10th
Rulebook will come with next black box, so all shops can make demo day by 12th June.

The errata, if true, will be wonderful if it means all armies start off more or less balanced. We can but hope. If the black box rumours are true, then we should have more than rumours in a couple of weeks.

Brass Scorpion
05-26-2010, 08:33 AM
Here's a sneak peek at the 8th Edition Rule Book courtesy of the latest newsletter from GW:
------------------------------------------------------------------
In this issue: Sneak Peek: New Warhammer!

New Warhammer: almost here!

Since we announced the new edition of Warhammer back in April, the excitement has been slowly building. Across the land hobbyists have begun gathering their forces in preparation of the mighty battles that lie ahead; in hushed whispers they've talked about what might lie within the 528-pages of the new Warhammer rulebook. Well prepare to ramp your excitement up a notch - Warhammer will be available to advance order from the 15th of June. Inspired by the clockwork creations of the engineers of Altdorf, we've today added a swish countdown clock to games-workshop.com, so you'll know exactly how many minutes and seconds to go before you can order your copy.

To thank you for subscribing to our newsletter (these images won't be shown anywhere else!) we thought we'd give you a sneak peek inside the new book. And don't forget that June's issue of White Dwarf is out this weekend and contains more exclusive information and pictures from the new Warhammer rulebook.

Enjoy.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1121502a_EN_146&147_600x400.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1121503a_EN_262&263_600x400.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1121504a_EN_312&313_600x400.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1121505a_EN_412&413_600x400.jpg

eldargal
05-26-2010, 08:47 AM
I really hope that jumbo sized hobby/lore section has instructions on how to make those nifty high elf buildings.

Lord Azaghul
05-26-2010, 09:02 AM
Fantasy has been tanking in my area for well over a year, and of late I've been running the scant few game nights at the local store, a bunch of my friends are now playing warmachine ( I couldn't get into it)

So I talked to the guys at the store and they should be letting me get my hands on the store copy asap.
Alot of the locals are kind of taking a 'wait and see' approach on 8th ed.

AirHorse
05-26-2010, 12:24 PM
Based on the little sneak peak in the email i expect the new book will be a nice solid read :) The last one was ace and I had no complaints about it either. Infact I loved the rules so I hope they arent too different overall :D

Glasvegas store is doing a 7th ed tournament the night before the rules come out, culminating with you getting your hands on the new book at the stroke of midnight. I never thought I would say this, but Im totaly gutted im going to the brittish f1 grand prix now! XD

eldargal
05-27-2010, 12:58 AM
I just posted this over at Warseer, regarding TLOS. Thought I would stick it in here too:

I would like to point out a few things, as an avid TLOS supporter.

Hiding in forests. No. Warhammer is based around solid formations of troops, and when marching through a forest they do not suddenly start crawling on their bellies. Going prone in a hostile environment is not the best thing to do (modern combat is a different matter). Skirmishes may be a different case, but bear in mind it was quite difficult to a) shoot a bow or b)hack someone to pieces when you are lying prone on the forest floor.
Hide= vulnerable when it comes to WFB (medieval) style combat. That dragon dropping its body low to avoid cannon fire suddenly has most of its body in range of infantry attacks, as an example/

Hills. This is a hill:
http://www.hhglastonbury.com/Tours/silbury-hill.jpg
This is a mound:
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/54/45/544567_72c1d97c.jpg
Which is closest to what you commonly find called hills in WFB? What people refer to as hills in tabletop gaming are really just small rises of earth, representing undulating terrain. Hills are actually sodding huge in comparison to a person. Anything you can fit 30 models representing 6ft soldiers on is not going to be a hill.
Have a look at the following picture, and note the rolling ground. That is what a two or three 15mm tier 'hill' represents if you think about it realistically:
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/10612611.jpg
Undulating ground and small rises may block LOS in some cases, but chances are a teeming horde of goblins or a huge bally dragon is going to be fairly obvious.
If you want a thick forest to block LOS, model it so. A small clump of trees is not going to do it. If you want a tall hill that dominates the landscape and blocks LOS, model it.

If you think WFB should be able to be played with just bases, you are playing the wrong game. WFB is a miniature based tabletop game, and the miniatures should be integral to the game, in my opinion.

AirHorse
05-27-2010, 06:53 AM
The only thing about tlos that i dislike is that people push it to the extreme, other than that its much more obvious and simpler to understand. Will be interesting for wizards in units with tlos now :P

Lord Azaghul
05-27-2010, 06:59 AM
The only thing about tlos that i dislike is that people push it to the extreme, other than that its much more obvious and simpler to understand. Will be interesting for wizards in units with tlos now :P

I don't think it'll change wizards too much, most spells all ready say with in x" or in line of sight. (unless your opponents have been drawing range from the unit rather then the wizard)

With the exception of wood TLOS is pretty much in 7th ed right now. I think you'll see more fantasy cover then your used to in 7th ed.

AirHorse
05-27-2010, 08:46 AM
Well it will help some, as you can shelter mages inside the centre of a unit and still have los to pew pew out of. Orcs are taller than goblins so its easy for me :D

Gnoblar with Pointy Stick
05-27-2010, 09:56 AM
It seems as if they are un-screwing Ogres. Real ranks and extra "crush" attacks? This is good. Very good. If Ogre beer wouldn't kill me, I would celebrate with it.

I'm waiting for some clarification on movement to make a judgement. As someone who plays both Warhammer and Warhammer 40k, I am tentatively happy about movement becoming more fast and loose. While 40k's movement might not be as "smart" and strategy driven, it actually serves to make the game more fun. And it looks like the new magic system will keep those who prefer more number-based strategy occupied with threat assessment and the like.

New rank system is freakin' confusing, though. All in all, it looks like it's time for my Ogres to really shine!

fuzzbuket
05-27-2010, 02:19 PM
do you get to use boats :D if you could thatd be SOOO cool and i might start fantasy! :D

Lord Azaghul
05-27-2010, 04:23 PM
Boats: in 'the generals compendium' (a gw book from 6th ed).
They had scenarios for invading armies, and crossing rivers and what not.
They even had some tips for buidling ships and what not.
I wouldn't mind trying to build a few orcy boats and rafts...
My dwarves however would never set sail on anything so removely and obviously elvish!

CitizenZero
05-27-2010, 05:40 PM
If you think WFB should be able to be played with just bases, you are playing the wrong game. WFB is a miniature based tabletop game, and the miniatures should be integral to the game, in my opinion.This is false, in my opinion. WFB inherently involves a measure of imagination, which is required throughout the entire process. To suggest that having a small "mound" on the tabletop represent a larger "hill" for the sake of ease of gameplay is out of line, one should really question if the game is meant to be even close to a simulation. It's not. The game is an approximation of a battle.

Since the inception of wargamaing in the early 1900's, there has been a constant struggle with playability vs. realism...WFB clearly makes concessions for playability, allowing an imaginative general to fill in the rest of the battle themselves.

eldargal
05-27-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm not actually certain what your point is. I'm all for treating WFB as an allegorical approximation of a real battle, I'm not sure how that would equate to having a 30mm high tier of foam be infinitely high.



This is false, in my opinion. WFB inherently involves a measure of imagination, which is required throughout the entire process. To suggest that having a small "mound" on the tabletop represent a larger "hill" for the sake of ease of gameplay is out of line, one should really question if the game is meant to be even close to a simulation. It's not. The game is an approximation of a battle.

Since the inception of wargamaing in the early 1900's, there has been a constant struggle with playability vs. realism...WFB clearly makes concessions for playability, allowing an imaginative general to fill in the rest of the battle themselves.

Brother Sutek
05-27-2010, 11:34 PM
Not going to lie, the only thing that I worry about now is how the loss/change of fear and terror is going to affect my Tomb Kings. Giving me a bonus to combat isn't going to help me against skaven or most horde armies but making them roll dice to charge me does.

eldargal
05-28-2010, 12:35 AM
Well, there is a rumour that all armies will be erratad with the launch of 8th, so hopefully TK will be brought into line with the new rules in a satisfactory manner. Bear in mind we do not know all the rules, so we don't know how badly armies which rley on fear and terror will be affected for sure.

CitizenZero
05-28-2010, 05:10 AM
I'm not actually certain what your point is. I'm all for treating WFB as an allegorical approximation of a real battle, I'm not sure how that would equate to having a 30mm high tier of foam be infinitely high.It doesn't. I was suggesting it equates to a 30mm high tier of foam representing a large enough hill to block line of sight.

A suspension of disbelief is required in order to make the game actually fun to play, so the scale of the battlefield is skewed in order to accommodate this. For example, the range of a medieval longbow was estimated to be roughly 200-225 yards...which in game terms equates to 30 inches. If you use this as a guideline, the average 4 x 6 table is representing a battlefield that is about 336yds by 420yds...much larger than it looks when you compare it to the models that are on it.

In addition, the same is true with Forests. A 12" by 12" piece of terrain with 3 trees on it, suddenly represents over 20,000 square feet of wooded terrain.

At the end of the day, I actually wouldn't mind having true LOS...I feel it is more intuitive/immersive/cinematic personally, but it is a bit of a stretch to suggest that the reasoning behind it is inherently more logical. I actually laughed at OP's claim that "you are playing the wrong game" if you disagree. Audacious! Haha...

So those would be a couple of my points, hopefully stated more clearly?

eldargal
05-28-2010, 05:27 AM
Ah, yes I understand now, thank you. I hope I didn't sound rude by the way, I genuinely wasn't sure what you meant.
Well, I play the game somewhat differently. My brothers and I (andour game group, come to think of it) like the terrain to be what it is representing, so our WFB terrain room has giant hills, escarpments, ridges and enough stands of trees to actually make a forested board. I'm not saying your approach is any way wrong, I want to make that clear. But when it comes to LOS issues, I think if you can see it you should be able to shoot it.

Torcano
05-28-2010, 06:52 AM
I one thing I have learned in my years of gaming is that there will always be *****ing and moaning about any changes that are done.

Look back at the major change for 6th to 7th; namely going from 4 columns to 5 for ranks there were people that claimed the world was ending. That their 16-18 model blocks of infantry were useless, it was impossible to field units of knights anymore (although this rule did hurt Orges and Minotaur armies).

I remember the old days of percentages, of rolling dice to determine the number of cards to draw for magic, of the unit killing Chaos Lord of Khorne with hydra blade (when frenzy doubled the number of attacks you made) and two wound rank and file beastman.

It will be a big change, but one that I feel is for the better. The state of Fantasy right now is in very poor condition; both the balance between armies and the high learnig curve means that it is not a game that encourages growth with new players (if you don't know which armies with simple beat you with almost no effort, it's not fun; if you're just learing about measuring distance, you have no chance against a 10+ year vetern that can place cannonballs and catapult stones to within half an inch).

Great post I couldn't agree more.

CitizenZero
05-28-2010, 06:16 PM
Ah, yes I understand now, thank you. I hope I didn't sound rude by the way, I genuinely wasn't sure what you meant.
Well, I play the game somewhat differently. My brothers and I (andour game group, come to think of it) like the terrain to be what it is representing, so our WFB terrain room has giant hills, escarpments, ridges and enough stands of trees to actually make a forested board. I'm not saying your approach is any way wrong, I want to make that clear. But when it comes to LOS issues, I think if you can see it you should be able to shoot it.No, I didn't take it as rude :)

Like I said, I actually agree that true line of sight is much more intuitive...so I wouldn't mind seeing it in the new edition. Whatever the rules end up being, I hope that they encourage a greater variety of wargame terrain being created and used...too often in fantasy do I see barren and static tables. Possibly with the addition of some mission-type scenarios this will change?

Sigmar
05-29-2010, 10:06 AM
I am getting really very excited about some of the rumoured rule changes. Personally, I was hoping for some simplification of the movement rules which I find somewhat frustrating.

Whatever happens, I hope it's a major update. It will revitalize the game as far as I'm concerned.

An overly excited Sigmar

CitizenZero
05-29-2010, 04:59 PM
I am getting really very excited about some of the rumoured rule changes. Personally, I was hoping for some simplification of the movement rules which I find somewhat frustrating.

Whatever happens, I hope it's a major update. It will revitalize the game as far as I'm concerned.

An overly excited SigmarWhen War of the Ring came out, part of me wanted to use that movement system in Fantasy...so much cleaner! It doesn't translate exactly the same however, because the units have different movement values and balance issues...but it would be cool to use some aspects of it...

Bigred
05-30-2010, 06:11 PM
master roundup (post#1) updated

RocketRollRebel
05-30-2010, 11:03 PM
I've got a Beastmen army that I cant wait to get started when this bad boy drops!

Brass Scorpion
06-03-2010, 12:52 PM
Warhammer 8th merchandise! Sorry, it's not in English but you can figure most of it out.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/297740.page#1630139

http://www.avatargames.es/UserFiles/Image/noticias%20normales/rumores%20Fantasy%202/Fantasy%20nuevo1.JPG

Also from Dakkadakka with a pic from Warseer, the same with Euro prices:

Rulebook 60 €
Measures 22.50 €
Templates 6.50 €
Magic Cards 7.75 €
Marker set 10.50 €
Skull Dice 8.10 € (or 9.10 €)

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90416&d=1275584720

Lord Azaghul
06-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Yeah, I saw that, if the Euro price is accurate that translates to about 70-75$ USD. Kind of hefty...but we'll see, since I have no use for the armies rumoured to be in the starter set. IF that is the price of the book its makes the 90$USD starter set may more sense

I may pick the book up at a discount retailer rather then preorder it!

I think the dice do look pretty cool though!

Hasagwan
06-03-2010, 10:10 PM
It does look intriguing. Looks like they are going all out.

Lord Azaghul
06-04-2010, 06:23 AM
It does look intriguing. Looks like they are going all out.

They have too at this point. Fantasy is broken and not selling, if they don't get people back into the game...tough luck GW.

RocketRollRebel
06-04-2010, 07:07 AM
I dont play either army in the starter box either but I'm probably gonna pick up the new big rule book and stuff and then try and get the mini rule book when it comes out. I don't think anyone is going to want to bring that big monster to the table to game with honestly. The spell cards look pretty neat and I like the templates and markers. The Gunners measuring stuff is neat but I may pass on that to save a couple bucks since it looks like I'll be dumping over $100 as it is....

CitizenZero
06-06-2010, 02:11 AM
Alright, so I can confirm some of this stuff first hand...as I handled the book for all of about 30 seconds earlier this week.

25% Lord and 25% Heroes is true...so a total of 50% can be spent on Characters. The other percentages are true, with one caveat...you can only have 3 of any specific special choice and 2 of any one specific rare choice, at least until you get to 3000 points. High Elves too.

The dashes are gone from the "To Wound" table...Strength 1 wounds Toughness 10 on a 6+

In addition, I haven't seen this mentioned on any rumor posts yet, but there is now PRE-MEASURING IN FANTASY! It blew my mind, but makes sense with the way we heard Stone Throwers may be working...

Most of the other stuff I had the chance to glance over fell in line with already existing rumors...but there ya go!

eldargal
06-06-2010, 03:04 AM
Hm, well, thats better than nothing. Still, I had hoped the 25% absolute cap on characters would be true.


Alright, so I can confirm some of this stuff first hand...as I handled the book for all of about 30 seconds earlier this week.

25% Lord and 25% Heroes is true...so a total of 50% can be spent on Characters. The other percentages are true, with one caveat...you can only have 3 of any specific special choice and 2 of any one specific rare choice, at least until you get to 3000 points. High Elves too.

CitizenZero
06-06-2010, 03:07 AM
Hm, well, thats better than nothing. Still, I had hoped the 25% absolute cap on characters would be true.I kind of did too, but there are a couple character-centric armies that would really be hampered by that...Vampires come to mind...Lizardmen come to mind...

eldargal
06-06-2010, 03:39 AM
Oh yes, its still a big improvement. Now that I'm hearing things from people who have handled the book, I'm getting even more excited about 8th than ever. It is all I can do not to bounce around on my chair making little squeals at irregular intervals. So unbelievably excited!


I kind of did too, but there are a couple character-centric armies that would really be hampered by that...Vampires come to mind...Lizardmen come to mind...

CitizenZero
06-06-2010, 04:10 AM
Yeah, I am super excited...the fact that everything can be pre-measured is still a shocker, it's amazing how something like that can suddenly make the game completely different...

Alright, I must go build more Fantasy models now :)

Hasagwan
06-06-2010, 04:38 AM
Yeah, I am super excited...the fact that everything can be pre-measured is still a shocker, it's amazing how something like that can suddenly make the game completely different...

Alright, I must go build more Fantasy models now :)

I don't know why, but suddenly after reading, I want to give up on my High Elves and WoC and go back to my first army ever, the dwarfs. Too bad I'd have to start from scratch with them:(

CitizenZero
06-06-2010, 04:41 AM
I don't know why, but suddenly after reading, I want to give up on my High Elves and WoC and go back to my first army ever, the dwarfs. Too bad I'd have to start from scratch with them:(But High Elves may get some cool stuff in the core set :)

Speaking of Dwarves, I didn't check on how Cannons work in the new edition...interested how that will come into play considering guessing ranges is out...maybe you still nominate a range and roll? Seems almost a little OP though...

Hasagwan
06-06-2010, 05:53 AM
That's a good point. And skaven are an army I'd enjoy building as well. Depending on how the rules settle and what needs to be done to fix the list into 8th will determine what priority my elves are. For now my WoC will take center stage and I'll go from there once they're up to 8th edition standards.

As for dwarfs, it's wishful thinking that I'll restart them any time soon. The rules do seem a bit OP as they stand for cannons so I am wondering what else we haven't heard about that may limit artillery.

MC Tic Tac
06-07-2010, 11:40 AM
In addition, I haven't seen this mentioned on any rumor posts yet, but there is now PRE-MEASURING IN FANTASY!

I'm surprised no one has picked up more on this, I know some of the older vets in my area won't be happy. Personally I don't care.

Lord Azaghul
06-07-2010, 12:22 PM
I'm surprised no one has picked up more on this, I know some of the older vets in my area won't be happy. Personally I don't care.

Currently, and for many of the last few editions, that game IS movement. It IS planning. So much of that seems to be going to wayside in this next edition. It now seems to be all about rolling lots of dice, and big spells the ruin you oppoents entire army.

What GW needs to realized is that they NEED the vets to stay on board to get this game selling.

I'm still waiting on this next ed before I make up my mind. So far it doesn't look promising.

Old_Paladin
06-07-2010, 01:40 PM
What GW needs to realized is that they NEED the vets to stay on board to get this game selling.

The problem is that that hasn't worked. The vets aren't bringing in any new blood. The game is too one sided in favour of the people that know what they're doing (either those that have perfected the ability to see distance, or the ones that know which army book is the best to play).

The new players right now are either dropping out because some of the friends picked Daemons, Vampires and Dark Elves and the rest of the group picked Orcs, Ogres, Dwarves, tomb kings and brets. If it's no fun to play, you drop. Or you walk into the store with your new Empire, and the vet pounds you with their Dwarf Gunline because they can place cannonballs and stonethrower templates to within an inch everytime.

New rules that don't punish a new player as much will mean new players aren't afraid to keep playing. Skill will help (even if you need to form new skill). The person that learns to play the averages on charges will still be better then the person that hopes for the long (but unlikely) charge; but yes, sometimes the long charge is going to work and even a short charge is going to fail.


My question to the Vets that are threatening to quit because of the new rules would be; are to now afraid to lose? Does the thought of younger player getting lucky unman you so?

If playing against a new player that really wants to get into the game; which would you rather have. The kid that gets to place where his cannonballs get to start before flight and bounce, but gets a big smiles when he gets some hits (even if one flys to far and another doesn't even bounce). Or do you like it when the person say "um... well... i guess my cannons will fire out to... ahh... 28 and 30 inches..." when you know full well that your units are within 26 inches?

I don't mean to sound bitter; and this probably isn't the actual state of Fantasy, but it comes off as being like this. It's a dying game right now. The choice is either stay true to the old guard and let the world die and they can enjoy old glories; or let them sulk and leave and build a new world out of the ashes. I know what standpoint a business is going to take.
And look at how many 40K players are saying, "hmm, well... now that I know I won't get my butt handed to me, and they are making the rules a little simplier and quicker; I'm actually thinking about starting X army."

quinn
06-07-2010, 02:40 PM
New rules that don't punish a new player as much will mean new players aren't afraid to keep playing. Skill will help (even if you need to form new skill). The person that learns to play the averages on charges will still be better then the person that hopes for the long (but unlikely) charge; but yes, sometimes the long charge is going to work and even a short charge is going to fail.


"
I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. Personally (I'm an old Vet), I'm looking forward to the new rules. I think that if you're a good player now, you'll still be a good player as long as you put in the time and effort to master the 'new' game. If I lose to a new player because he either out-played me or got lucky, then I'll suck it up and drive on.

The thing I really hated the most was someone showing up at a tournament with a build (usually Daemons: VC and DEs I can handle) that no matter how well I played I stood very little chance of beating. I will be REALLY happy if the new BRB equals out the power curve of all of the armies. It'll be a lot better game if you see all of the armies represented at tournaments, not just in friendly games. I'm really hoping that GW hits it out of the park with this rulebook.

Lord Azaghul
06-07-2010, 02:54 PM
I do see your point. And honestly I appericate it.

Part of the issue in my area is that apart from about 4 of us: fantasy is dead. And its been for about a solid year now. We used to have 10-20 guys on a weekly basis, now a busy week is 5 guys.
A far number of the guys have jumped over to warmachine and are having a really good time. ABut for the most part, we would get new people who wanted to play something something fun, but they get trampled on so fast, and then read about daemons, and the rest of pretty much moan...so they stop coming...

In my area if a few of us 'vets' don't play the new ed, I'm afriand fantasy game night is pretty much dead, right now its on life support as it is; So in my vet, if I can't sell (not the book itself, but the idea) 8th ed to my peers then there isn't much hope for revival. I want to get people back into the game, I want the game to be fun for all players no matter the army they run.

Losing: Nah, that's not the issue for me. The main is: will the game still be fun. Will it still be a 'thinking man's' game (comparitively speaking). Will the game still reward tacts? I don't want the game to be ruled my dice. With the exception of the powergap in fantasy I've always felt the 'better', more 'skilled' player should win 60-70% of the time, and dice making up for the rest. The rumour seem to put so much more into dice, rather then tactics, that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that. I don't mind losing a game because of "a" dice roll, but I don't want to the whole thing to come down to nothing but dice rolls. In the current set moving properly is often rewarded. I'm not sure how the new ed's tactics will work!

I'm hoping the new rules are solid, but I'm also afriad they will be a mess...

Bigred
06-07-2010, 04:56 PM
To me it looks like this is the first edition in about 15+ years where the Design Studio said:

"take this stack of army books and make a game out of them...named Warhammer Fantasy. Look at the old rulebooks for inspiration, but don't feel beholden to them"

Warhammer Fantasy is ancient after all, and lots of rule mechanics that were revolutionary 25 years ago are outdated by modern wargames standards. For that reason I agreed with iamaddj, that 8th is probably make or break for WFB.

They have to come out swinging for the fences rules wise, because with the new competetion out there, I dont think Fantasy would survive a badly designed 8th edition in the current marketplace. Poor design choices could easily see it resigned to the backseat far behind 40k forever and really change the focus of GW to be almost totally 40k-centric.

So I'm happy to see GW trying radically new things.

Old_Paladin
06-07-2010, 05:19 PM
I do see your point. And honestly I appericate it.

Part of the issue in my area is that apart from about 4 of us: fantasy is dead. And its been for about a solid year now. We used to have 10-20 guys on a weekly basis, now a busy week is 5 guys.
A far number of the guys have jumped over to warmachine and are having a really good time. ABut for the most part, we would get new people who wanted to play something something fun, but they get trampled on so fast, and then read about daemons, and the rest of pretty much moan...so they stop coming...

In my area if a few of us 'vets' don't play the new ed, I'm afriand fantasy game night is pretty much dead, right now its on life support as it is; So in my vet, if I can't sell (not the book itself, but the idea) 8th ed to my peers then there isn't much hope for revival. I want to get people back into the game, I want the game to be fun for all players no matter the army they run.

I can see where you're coming from; but there is a bright side. You have like 15 people that you can probably get back.

You had people that wanted to get into the game (and might still have models); if you see them or can contact them, tell them about the new system.
Play some small games with them (either under the rumoured rules, or wait for the actual rules). Show them that even if they lose, they probably won't get stomped. They don't need as many skills or as advanced skills as the vets (who now also have to learn a new rules set, and unlearn things they used to know), to compete.


I think Daemons are still going to be too good. So try to keep them hidden away from people that you want to show how balancing the new system can be.
Bloodletters fighting in two ranks. Slaaneshi troops having ASF and high init, now gives them a form of hatred. Nurgle troops still having good toughness and multiple saves.
It should be the first book to be done under the new system, just to balance it out more.

gcsmith
06-08-2010, 04:42 AM
Old_paladin I dont see how making it easier for newbies makes it better, I started as a newbie and tbh seeing people trounce you within a turn made you wanna play more, The people who don't aspire to that or find it harsh after a severe beating shouldnt play it, In a world of games like warmachine where really not much skill is needed we need a skill based game. Not a random dice rolling one like war of the rings, I mean know one plays war of the rings down in my store because the rules suck, And its lotr the system which almost killed GW.

Lord Azaghul
06-08-2010, 06:32 AM
I think Daemons are still going to be too good. So try to keep them hidden away from people that you want to show how balancing the new system can be.
Bloodletters fighting in two ranks. Slaaneshi troops having ASF and high init, now gives them a form of hatred. Nurgle troops still having good toughness and multiple saves.
It should be the first book to be done under the new system, just to balance it out more.


I'm hoping beyond hope, that the 'heavy faqing' bludgeons daemons back into the warp. But since wave 2 is due shortly after 8th drops I some how doubt it.

CitizenZero
06-08-2010, 05:16 PM
know one plays war of the rings down in my store because the rules suck, And its lotr the system which almost killed GW.I don't know a single person that chooses not to play WoTR because "the rules suck."

Also, LoTR is an extremely elegant system that relies less on luck than either 40k OR Fantasy.

Have you given either an honest shot?

eldargal
06-08-2010, 07:34 PM
I stopped playing 7th edition quite some time ago, as did my six brothers. I had a Dark Elf army I shelved for High Elves because even with a fluffy army list I still tended to win all the time. It was no fun for me and certainly no fun for my opponents. After I while I stopped playing altogether.
8th will have to be pretty good to get my brothers and I back into it, but so far we are all really liking what we are hearing.
I will sort of miss guess ranges, but it caused so many argument ('oi, he is using his arm to measure!' etc) I think it will be for the best.

Old_Paladin
06-09-2010, 07:19 AM
Old_paladin I dont see how making it easier for newbies makes it better, I started as a newbie and tbh seeing people trounce you within a turn made you wanna play more, The people who don't aspire to that or find it harsh after a severe beating shouldnt play it.

I'm not saying the new rules are a "superiour" set. But in a hobby and game that is suposed to be fun, getting a total beating isn't much fun for the average person. Hell, most of the tournies around the world are saying it's too imbalanced amongst people that actually want hard fought games.

If you don't mind spending hundreds of dollars to get pounded on your free time and find that relaxing; then hats off to you, you're a proud and eager minority. But the major just went to play a different game.

All this is doing is shortening the learning curve, and re-setting the skill clock. This new set isn't going to make it even between skilled and unskilled players (the person with the best tactics is still going to win, a lot); but it is going to balance it enough that new players can pick up on the game a little better and the different armies are going to be evened out a bit more.


You say that people that don't like the current rules shouldn't play... well, they don't. It might be good rule that completely favour the skilled, but that made it a sh!t game that huge amounts of people gave up on. The company is doing what it needs to in order to revitalize Fantasy.

Odominus
06-13-2010, 11:55 PM
Rumored Common magic items for 8th:



Magic Weapons

1.Giantsblade-[60 pts] +3 Strength in close combat.
2.Bloodbath Sword - [60 pts] + 3 attacks
3.Obsidianblade - [50 pts] Wounds with this weapon ignore armour saves
4.Ogreblade - [40 pts] +2 Strength in close combat
5.Sword of Quarrel - [40 pts] Bearer gains 2 attacks
6.Duelling Blade- [35 pts] Weapon pair, bearer has weapon skill 10
7.Heroslayer - [30 pts] Bearer gains 1 attack and strength for every character model that is in base contact with him or his unit. Bonus is calculated at the beginning of every close combat
8.Zauberraubklinge [ 25 pts]If a wizard his wounded with this sword, he will lose one random spell for each wound
9.Schlachtenkling - [20 pts] Bearer gains 1 attack
10.Sword Of might - [20 pts] +1 strength in close combat
11.Beserker Sword - [20 pts] Bearer gains frenzy and can never lose it
12.Goldenes Siegelschwert - 15 pts] Attacks are done with initiative 10
13.Behände Klinge - [15 pts] Bonus of +1 to hit
14.Reissende Klinge -[10 pts] - Attacks are armour piercing
15.Reliquienschwert - [10 pts] - Attacks with this sword wound always on 5+, or better if one would wound normally on a lower score.
16.Kreischende Klinge - [10 pts] Bearer causes fear
17.Sword of Pain- [5 pts] - Monster or character that loses one or more wounds to this sword, will suffer from stupid
18.Kriegerfluch - [5 pts] - Monster or character that loses one or more wounds to this sword, will lose one attack (but will keep at least one attack)

Magic Armour
19.Rüstung des Schicksals - [50 pts] Heavy armour, 4+ ward save
20. Schurkenhelm - [50 pts] +1 Armour Save, enemy has to re-roll successful wounds
21. Silberstahlrüstung - [45 pts] Armour save 2+, can not be further improved
22. Rüstung des Glücks - [35 pts] Heavy armour, 5+ ward save
23.Helm der Zwietracht - [30 pts] +1 Armorsave, enemy character model has to pass a leadership test, if it fails, it can not attack and will be hit automatically
24. Glitzernde Schuppenrüstung - [25 pts] - Light armour, -1 to hit in close combat.
25. Shield of Ptolos - [25 pts] Buckler, 1+ armour save against missile attack
26. Zauberspruchshild - [20 pts] Buckler, bearer gains magic resistance (1)
27. Rüstung des Glücksritters [20 pts] Heavy armour, 6+ ward save
28. Dragonhelm - [10 pts] Armour save is better by 1, 2+ ward save against fire attacks
29.Verzauberter Schild - [5 pts] Buckler, Armour save is better by 2
30.Glücksbringender Schild - [5 pts]Buckler, only one use, first hit will be ignored by 2+

Talismans
31. Talisman der Bewahrung - [45 pts] Bearer gains 4+ ward save
32. Grosser Obsidian -[45 pts] Bearer gains magic resistance (3)
33. Talisman der Ausdauer - [30 pts] Bearer gains 5+ ward save
34. Obsidian Amulet - [30 pts] Bearer gains magic resistance (2)
35. Dämmerstein - [25 pts] Bearer re-rolls missed armour saves
36. Opalamulett - [15 pts] Only one use, 4+ ward save against first wound
37. Obsidiananhänger - [15 pts] Bearer gains magic resistance (1)
38. Talisman des Schutzes - [15 pts] Bearer gains ward save 6+
39. Samen der Wiedergeburt - [10 pts] Bearer gains 6+ regeneration
40. Drachenfluchstein - [5 pts] Bearer gains 2+ ward save against fire attacks
41. Federrupfanhänger - [5 pts] Bearer gain 5+ ward save against models with the “flying” rule.
42. Stone of Good Luck - [5 pts]- Only one use, Bearer can re-roll one missed armour save

Magic Standard
43. Standarte der Mordlust - [55 pts] Unit can re-roll attacks
44. Heulende Standarte [50 pts] Unit causes 'horror' (Not sure if he meant fear or terror)
45. Waldläuferbanner - [50 pts] Unit gains “terrain knowledge???”(Maybe something along the strider rumors we heard?)
46. Klingenstandarte - [45 pts] Unit gains armour piercing
47. Kriegsbanner - [35 pts] +1 Combat Resolution
48. Banner der Eile -[15 pts] +1 on movement range
49. Knochenstandarte - [15 pts] Magic resistance (1)
50. Standad of Disciple - [15 pts] +1 on leadership, but can not use the generals leadership
51. Banner der Ewigen Flamme [10 pts] Unit causes fire attacks
52. Strahlende Flagge [5 pts] Only one use, unit can re-roll first failed leadership test
53. Vogelscheuchenbanner - [5 pts] Unit causes fear on all units with “fyling”

Arcane Items
54. Book of Ashur - [70 pts] Bearer gains +1 on his spells and dispels
55. Scroll of reaction - [50 pts] Only one use, if an enemy wizard casts a spell, the player can read this scroll instead of dispelling. The spell will be cast successfully. But after resolving the spells effect, the player will roll one dice for every used power dice. For every 5+ the wizard will lose a wound, no armour saves are allowed.
56.Scroll of energy predation(?) - [50 pts] Only one use, if an enemy wizard casts a spell, the player can read this scroll instead of banning. The spell will be cast successful. But after resolving the spells effect, the player will gain as many dispel dices as the wizard used power dices.
57.Sivejir’s Fluchrolle - [50 pts] Only one use, if an enemy wizard casts a spell, the player can read this scroll instead of Dispelling. The spell will be cast successful. But after resolving the spells effect, the wizard will be a frog, if he is not able to roll one d6 below his magic level. All stats are reduced to 1, only his wounds stay the same. He can not use his magic items etc or cast spells/dispels. The wizard can try to free himself in his next own magic turn on a 4+
58.Energiespruchrolle - [35 pts] Only one use, every doubles will cause total energy and loss of control
59. Pechkohlen-Zauberstab - [35 pts] Only one use, wizard can decide to use the staffs power after a successful casts spell to increase the score by rolling an additional d6. By that he can gain total energy and a loss of control
60. Verbotener Stab - [35 pts] Only one use, at the beginning of his magic turn, the staff grants d6 energy dices. Bearer suffers d3 wounds, no armour saves are allowed
61. Gauners Scherbe - [25 pts] Only one use, one has to declare the use of it at the beginning of his magic turn, if an enemy wizard want to dispel a spell cast by this wizard, he will lose one wound on 5+, no armour save allowed.
62. Erdender Stab -[25 pts] Only one use, wizard can re-roll first loss of control
63. Dispel Scroll - [25 points] Only one use, dispels one spell automatically
64. Powerstone - 20 ptsOnly one use, declare to use the stone before you cast a spell. Wizard can use two additional power dice, but has to use at least one from the power pool.
65.Sceptre of stability - [15 pts] Only one use, after rolling to dispel one spell, you can roll an additional d6.
66.Kanalisierungsstab - [15 pts] Bearer gains +1 to channel an additional energy or dispel dice
67.Spruchrolle des Schutzes - [15 pts] Only one use, if an enemy wizard casts a spell, the player can read this scroll instead of banning. The spell will be cast successful. But after resolving the spells effect, the targeted unit gains a 4+ ward save for caused wound.

Enchanted Items
68. Wizards Hat - [100 pts], Level 2 mage, random magic lore, stupid
69. Pocket-watchtower - [100 pts] When both armies have placed their terrain and troops, you can place a watchtower. Rules are in the rules book
70. Arabic rug/Magic Carpet - [50 pts] Infantry and monstrous infantry gain flying, cannot join units (have no idea what this means)
71. Crown of command - [35 pts] Bearer is Stubborn
72. Healing Potion - [35 pts] Only one use, gain D6 lost wounds.
73. Flügelfluchreif (winged curse circlet???) - [35 pts] Flying creatures and their riders have to re-roll successful hits against bearer/unit
74. Rubyring of destruction - [25 pts] Bound spell (energy level 3) Fireball
75. Die Schreckensmaske von Iek! - [25 pts] Bearer causes horror. Other units are not allowed to use his leadership
76. Potion of Stregth - [20 pts] Only one use, +3 strength(thought it was d3...)
77. Potion of Toughness - [20 pts] Only one use, +3 toughness (same as above)
78. Des anderen Gauners Scherbe (the others chiseller shard) [15 pts] All models in base contact (friend and foe) need to re-roll successful saves
79. Eisenfluch-Ikone -[5 pts] 6+ ward against war machines
80. Trank der Tollkühnheit - [5 pts] Only one use, Immute to Psychology and killing blow.(Guessing its for one turn or one round of combat?)
81. Potion of Speed - [5 pts] Only one use,+3 initiative




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Bigred
06-14-2010, 12:07 AM
OK, guys, we want to slowly put the brakes on the rumor roundup for 8th.

If anyone has FISTHAND info from the PHYSICAL BOOK, put it in this 8th First Sightings (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=7708)thread.

That means YOU saw it YOURSELF (not heard it from your brother, a redshirt, or a friend or read it on the internet) and can vouch for it, stick it in the other thread. Hearsay and rumors continues in here.