40k like Points System inbound from GW

[IImmortalized]

Hi All,

I have a local GW rep who says GW is working on a points system for AoS closer to 40k. He won't divulge much detail at the moment out side of that they are doing so.

Does anyone have any more insight on this?

[Mr Mystery]

Sounds somewhat unlikely to be honest.

Could be a local stores own efforts, could be a store adopting and tweaking something like Azyr Comp.

[IImmortalized]

Apparently he said it's directly from GW and he was using an application they created for Points and list building. He is an honest guy so i wouldn't doubt it being truth, as soon as he shares more information, i'll update.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

We've already got the AoS App which deals with army building (such as there is).

I dunno. Not sure this is actually going to happen. But as ever, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[grimmas]

But.... but if that happens what will people moan about.

Hang I quite like having no points I can moan about it. Phew disaster averted.

[IImmortalized]

Still waiting to see what he can/can't share. He did say he was looiking at the points for Orcs/Goblins and they seemed really well done. Note he is an Orc player in all games so that's probably what he cares most about.

EDIT: This is what is said via our local Facebook group when i asked if there were details to share "Still no green light yet. Shouldn't be too much longer".

I will let you guys know when it's up. He said he will provide pics when he is allowed to.

[grimmas]

Well anything you can share will be of interest

[Erik Setzer]

But.... but if that happens what will people moan about.

Hang I quite like having no points I can moan about it. Phew disaster averted.

If it happens, people who like no points can opt not to use points, right?

If it happens, it'll mean that while they do their best to ignore their customers, they might actually recognize some of the loudest complaints at times. Can't say that'd be a bad thing.

[grimmas]

If it happens, people who like no points can opt not to use points, right?

If it happens, it'll mean that while they do their best to ignore their customers, they might actually recognize some of the loudest complaints at times. Can't say that'd be a bad thing.

Well people who like points can make them up now, and they have. I am mucking around although I did see someone on Facebook rage about how people were f***ing up the game by trying to put too many restrictions on it (and it wasn't me). I'd also point out that the people who like AoS are customers its not just the moaners and I'm doubtful how many of them will actually buy anything regardless of any changes to AoS.

If they do bring out a more detailled army building mechanic I'd like to see something new. I'm bored of points it's been 25yr plus for me and 30yrs plus for that mechanic in Warhammer it's time for a change maybe something using formations or keywords.

[Theik]

Well people who like points can make them up now, and they have. I am mucking around although I did see someone on Facebook rage about how people were f***ing up the game by trying to put too many restrictions on it (and it wasn't me). I'd also point out that the people who like AoS are customers its not just the moaners and I'm doubtful how many of them will actually buy anything regardless of any changes to AoS.

If they do bring out a more detailled army building mechanic I'd like to see something new. I'm bored of points it's been 25yr plus for me and 30yrs plus for that mechanic in Warhammer it's time for a change maybe something using formations or keywords.

This is a pretty silly argument.

It takes a lot of tweaking to come up with good points for units and it helps balance the game so people don't get curbstomped because they had no idea how "much" of an army to bring to the table, so it should always have been done by GW in the first place and could then have happily been ignored.

You could also sell cars without tires and an engine and people who absolutely want tires can put them in themselves, but I doubt anybody will take you very seriously if you only self half the product.

There was -nothing- in the old warhammer fantasy preventing you from playing without points or percentages. The fact people kept doing it was because it was simply the best way to ensure the fight was at least somewhat on equal grounds.

[grimmas]

This is a pretty silly argument.

It takes a lot of tweaking to come up with good points for units and it helps balance the game so people don't get curbstomped because they had no idea how "much" of an army to bring to the table, so it should always have been done by GW in the first place and could then have happily been ignored.

You could also sell cars without tires and an engine and people who absolutely want tires can put them in themselves, but I doubt anybody will take you very seriously if you only self half the product.

There was -nothing- in the old warhammer fantasy preventing you from playing without points or percentages. The fact people kept doing it was because it was simply the best way to ensure the fight was at least somewhat on equal grounds.

Actually it's a statement of fact. There's lots of fan developed balancing mechanics that are very good. It's an opinion wether you like them on not or even use them.

Your analogy is false and based on your opinion that AoS doesn't work as a game. You do realise that car enthusiast do that don't you and there are companies who just produce different parts of cars for that very reason? Different strokes for different folks. You don't like it so what.

Nothing you say is fact it's merely an opinion which you are entitled to. But your likes, dislikes, wants and needs dont have any bearing on mine what so ever.

[Mr Mystery]

Unless you're selling it as a 'bare bones' chassis only deal, allowing the customer to add whatever after the sale - like they have with AoS.

And before anyone gets confused or contrite - I've got no issue with anyone applying any comp to any game. I'm happy with AoS as it comes, but I'm not one to confuse my hobby with anyone else's.

AoS is what it is - if you're not a big fan of the product, then it's not a product for you, and I wouldn't expect you to waste time and money by buying it (especially when the majority of it is free!) and then complaining that it's not what you wanted to spend your money on in the first place, despite knowing it doesn't have points or army structuring rules in itself.

[Erik Setzer]

The problem with it being as bare-bones as it is, is that it makes it a bit rough to do pick-up games sometimes, because you're slapping all kinds of house rules on to make up for what's not there.

On the alternate methods of army building front, I saw an interesting method in By Fire and Sword (historical game, 1600s Europe). They have a series of army builds for each army, and you'll have levels with numbers assigned to them (usually 4-7)... Basically, you have a core (worth 4) with a commander and various units; then there's additional levels to add on that have more units, often with options on what unit(s) to pick. There's no variations on unit sizes, so that is an option taken away, but that's not a terrible thing. If one person shows up with just a 4 value army and another with a 7 value army, the player with the lower army value can get some bonuses like selecting scenarios that might be easier for them to win.

With AoS, that'd be something like having, say (VERY rough example, and sorry that I'll forget some names):

Stormcast Eternals Vigilance Force

Core: 1 Commander, 3x5 Basic Eternals
Add: 3 Flying Eternals OR 5 Heavy Infantry Eternals
Add: 3 Flying Eternals OR 5 Heavy Infantry Eternals
Add: 2 Dracoth Riders

Base it on box sizes. Maybe toss in the ability to expand unit sizes but it expands your force value.

The main problem is it's not as open-ended as people might prefer in a fantasy game. But it'd be an interesting concept.

[Mr Mystery]

Work on it more - nowt to lose :)

Could even adopt the old Epic card system (well, after a fashion. Nobody would reasonably expect another fan to make the cards themselves)

You started with a Company Card, such as below

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QknijZ6ckWU/Ul2mo1NNohI/AAAAAAAAAM8/Bu5m034VeaY/s1600/IMG_1348.JPG

Each of these opened up up to five support cards (I think I've got my terminology right)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5NVgxNjAw/z/fvQAAOSwv0tVBKB~/$_35.JPG

And a single Special Card - which was typically your Titan Class

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/ktMAAOSwBahVT3Ou/$_35.JPG

Now, quite how one would fit in unit size options I'm not sure, but this would be one way to help 'do away' with points altogether - each Company Card has to be taken as is, and use say, Azyr Comp, to ensure each is roughly equivalent.

Oooh, I know how one could do different unit sizes...you can pile together the Support Cards - so if one was say, 5 Liberators, you could take of those, and combine into a single unit. Easy peasy.

[Erik Setzer]

Yeah, I kind of feel like I want to do something like that, now, just for fun. Hey, it's one more option for people to try, at least. And then I could get some of that sweet, sweet rules writer hatred.

[grimmas]

Yep definitely the sort of thing I was thinking about. Whip it up, sounds like an option.

[Mr Mystery]

Come to think of it, the Epic system may have sneakily evolved into the 40k Decurion type stuff, but with added flexibility.

I really like the idea of the Epic system for creating 'historically accurate' forces. One could even make each of the 'Start Collecting' sets a Company Card - would make entry far less daunting, no?

[grimmas]

Yeah sounds plausible. I'm very keen on them porting more things form the Epic systems over to 40K, it always was a better rule set, the miniatures weren't a good though.

[henrythesecond]

Yeah sounds plausible. I'm very keen on them porting more things form the Epic systems over to 40K, it always was a better rule set, the miniatures weren't a good though.

Grimmas, I have no constructive opinion on anything either you or anyone else has had to say in this thread.

However I happened to notice your stated 'location' and as a fellow countryman, assuming you aren't simply visiting, I began wondering which would concern our beloved Queen the most; your grammatical mangling of her title or the fact there may be more than one of her...

[grimmas]

I think she may be glad of the help 😊

I thank you for pointing out my error.

Do I find your lack of opinion disturbing and must now, regrettably, report your off topic post 😝 (A topic on my spelling and grammar deficencies would go on somewhat so it's probably best there isn't one)!

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah sounds plausible. I'm very keen on them porting more things form the Epic systems over to 40K, it always was a better rule set, the miniatures weren't a good though.

You take tha back! The I is we're good for their day :p

And short of objective markers, AoS plays very similarly to Space Marine, yet I don't think anyone has ever accused that of being a kids game.....

[grimmas]

They weren't bad, just weren't as inspiring as the 40K stuff (hmm possible evidence in the rule vs models debate).

Yeah AoS reminds me of Space Marine as well, which in my opinion is no bad thing.

[Path Walker]

Grimmas, I have no constructive opinion on anything either you or anyone else has had to say in this thread.

However I happened to notice your stated 'location' and as a fellow countryman, assuming you aren't simply visiting, I began wondering which would concern our beloved Queen the most; your grammatical mangling of her title or the fact there may be more than one of her...

We regularly discuss this stuff at the weekly Get a Life Club.

[Mr Mystery]

IImortalized is well informed.

Seems the points system is for GW's return to the organised play arena.

[IImmortalized]

No screen shots, but he dropped this with a "wink wink, nudge nudge" http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/want-an-online-points-system-for-age-of-sigmar.html