Mathhammer: Death Company vs. TH/SS Terminators

[BrotherMoses]

Ok, I've noticed that this board has a greater than average amount of Mathhammer/stathammer wizards on it and I would like to request your assistance.

The thing I hate most in 5th edition is TH/SS terminators. So what I would like to do is get one of you guys to do the math of my particular DC vs. your standard 5 man strong Hammernator squad. Here is the Death Company's layout:

9 DC members lead by a basic chaplain with no upgrades. 2 members of the DC are equipped with Thunderhammers.

Remember: Chaplain lets the DC reroll hit and wound rolls on charge. DC are weaponskill 5. Chaplain has a crozius and rosarius.

[Tynskel]

They'll do the job--- Unless you don't get the charge--- the problem is that TH +SS Termies like to hide in a armor 14 box...

You didn't say weapons... assuming BP Chainsword
DC: 7*4 attacks on charge*(2/3+1/3*2/3) to hit* 2/3+1/3*2/3) to wound *1/6 failed armor= 3.69 dead.
Chaplain: 4*(2/3+1/3*2/3)*2/3*1/3=0.79
TH: 6*(2/3+1/3*2/3)*(5/6+1/6*5/6)*1/3=1.73
Now, one or two will get to fight back-- and that'll kill probably 1 or DC. (basically 1 per termie still alive)
Total: 6.21 dead--- this isn't average or have a standard dev-- so this is sorta b@stard maths. But it is close enough for all intents and purposes.

If you don't get the charge...
DC: 7*3 attacks *2/3*1/2*1/6=1.17
Chappy: 3*2/3*1/2*1/3=.33
TH: 4*2/3*5/6*1/3= 0.74

"Bad News: Bears!"

The Termies Fight back...
4 Terms*3*1/2*5/6=5 Dead
3 Terms*3*1/2*5/6=3.75
Either way, that hurts, because you will have to fight another round.


Rule of thumb-- charge with DC. Good Luck!

I think it is like Vanguard--- you should give them all Power Weapons:
5 Man Death Co. with Lemartes. ~ same points as your squad!
20*.888*.888*1/3= 5.25 Dead- that's not including the chappies attacks.
4*.888*.888*1/3= 1.05

[Image]

28 Attacks with 7 DC, hitting on Threes, rerollable = 18.676 hits, with re-rolls an additional 6.2 hits. Rounded, between 24-25 hits.

Wounding on threes, about 16 wounds before rerolls, with an additional ~5. 21 wounds, at initiative 5. After armour saves, works out to 3.5 wounds.

With Chaplain, at initiative 4 (assuming to be out of sang. priest range) and 4 attacks: 2.668 hits, re-rolling for an additional 0.88844 hits. Between 3-4 hits, practically. No re-rolling wounds, works out to 1.5-2 wounds before invulnerable. After saves, works out to 0.5 - 0.667 wounds.

Safe to assume, before the terminators strike simultaneously with your Thunder Hammers, they'll have one Terminator left.

The two remaining DC with T. Hammers hits ~5 times, wounding 5 times, with 1.665 wounds going through.


The terminators retaliate with two attacks, hit once and have an ~85% chance of killing 1 DC.

If you don't get the charge on them, this would be very different.

Point differences: 340 for DC with Chaplain and T. Hammers vs. 200 points of Terminators with T. Hammers/S. Shields.

[BrotherMoses]

Well first I want to thank you guys for the help. I did the best I could in my head and I got close to the same answer, but it looks much more correct and fine tuned this way. :)

Image when you put it that way it doesn't sound very efficient at all. Especially since when that surviving Hammernator does swing and kills my chaplain, basically ruining one of the major buffs of the Death Company. Hopefully I can make this work. I may exchange one of the Thunder Hammers for a power weapon to save me a few points and add in some extra high initiative attacks.

[DarkLink]

With a Chaplain, two power swords and 7 standard DC, you'll probably kill all of them before they hit back. In fact, I calculated 6.58 wounds on the charge.

If you don't get the charge, then you'll actually do .06 fewer wounds than with a pair of THs.

I think the moral of the story is to make sure you get the assault.

[synack]

I think the moral of the story is to make sure you get the assault.

Isn't that a rule of thumb with most units :p

[BrotherMoses]

You guys are so awesome at Math. Can I have a subforum for my calculus homework on here?

[Mafty]

problem is, your DC squad costs almost DOUBLE what assault termies cost. So for the price point, you should actually be comparing the DC squad to around 9 assault termies, in which case your survivability and chance of wining go down the drain.

9 DC with chaplain and 2 TH is 340 points I believe, and thats with no ride or jumppacks

[BrotherMoses]

They have a rhino so 390. There are a couple of non math related reasons I'm fielding them. Mostly to fill up points in an 'ardboyz list and show off this awesome DC rhino I painted.

[Mafty]

They have a rhino so 390. There are a couple of non math related reasons I'm fielding them. Mostly to fill up points in an 'ardboyz list and show off this awesome DC rhino I painted.

nothing wrong with doing things for hobby reasons, but for accurate comparisons, I like to compare point for point, no sense comparing TH/SS vs something twice the points, I hope the thing twice the cost wins, otherwise that hurts.

The main issue with TH/SS termies is the LR almost necessary purchase price, which makes them a 450-500 point investment

[Thiazi]

Some one min crunching the numbers for 15 DC 2 PW, 1 PF, rest bolters with Chain swords with a basic Chappy? Really just curious what kind of wounds i can expect to get against termies.
Thanks ahead of time.

[BuFFo]

Isn't that a rule of thumb with most units

Yes... I am glad people need to come to an internet forum to figure that out! :eek: :eek: :eek: :p

[DarkLink]

Yes... I am glad people need to come to an internet forum to figure that out!

What can I say, I'm making the metagame a better place, one sheep at a time:rolleyes::p