Mephiston Question

[musical-fool]

Hello,

just a quick question that has just come up out of pure disbelief...

Am I correct in reading the BA codex that Mephiston doesn't have an invul save!?

I got my codex yesterday and I haven't had the time to read through it properly but decided to have a mock-up game with Mephiston, Sang Garde and Assault squad vs. Belial and 2 squads of Termies. And into assault feeling fairly confident with Mephiston until he was hit back with 2 TH and when I checked on his IS I couldn't find one ANYWHERE.

Now am I being blind or is this correct? If so it is seriously making me rethink using Mephiston in the list...

[XHound87]

Nope, no invuln. Read the Mephiston topic in the Tactics section to see why this isn't all that big a deal.

[musical-fool]

ok thanks!

it looks like I will have to learn how to use him better/to more effect...

[Dingareth]

Enjoy getting Plasma'd off the board. Also, incase you haven't noticed, he can't join units either.

[isotope99]

But you can still give him cover and feel no pain by keeping him near an assault squad with sanguinary priest. He can't join the unit but can still benefit from its effects.

[Dingareth]

Yep, that FnP really helps against things like Lascannons, Plasma, and Melta, you know the only things that can reliably wound him and deny his armor...

Oh wait...

[Tynskel]

Yep, that FnP really helps against things like Lascannons, Plasma, and Melta, you know the only things that can reliably wound him and deny his armor...

Oh wait...

That's right he has 5 wounds. And a cover save. I think he'll be okay--- just a little angry.

[Paul]

Yep, that FnP really helps against things like Lascannons, Plasma, and Melta, you know the only things that can reliably wound him and deny his armor...

Oh wait...

No what helps about those is being an infantry model with TLOS

[BuFFo]

No what helps about those is being an infantry model with TLOS

lol, okay, bunch your guys up in a wall to save Mephy. :confused:

Thats great Blast / Template fodder right there. :eek:

[DarkLink]

Incidentally, one of the best ways I've though of to kill mephiston in CC is a 5 man unit of GK Terminators, all with THSS. Now, we follow the old rules for both, meaning only a 4+, in CC, and only against a single opponent per turn.

If the Brother Captain has a psychic hood, then Mephiston will only have about a 49% chance of getting psychic powers off, between failing the test and the hood. Neglecting perils and any charge bonus;
1
Mephiston hits and kills 1.6 GKTs on average.
The remaining GKT's strike back, and cause 2.6 wounds. Since we use the old TH rules, Mephiston is now stunned and "may not attack until the end of the next assault phase".

2. The GKTs hit, and cause 2.6 more wounds. And to add insult to injury, even if this doesn't kill Mephiston due to below average rolling, even a single wound will stun-lock him, and he will not get to attack "until the end of the next assault phase".

3. If Mephiston is still alive, he'll take another 2.6 wounds.


So long as the GKTs score at least a single wound per turn, they'll kill him off.

5 GKTs also cost the same as Mephiston, more or less. 255pts if you bring a psychic hood.

Moral of the story; Mephiston doesn't like THSS terminators.

[Eusebius Rex]

He doesn't like Swarmlords either...

[DarkLink]

He doesn't like Swarmlords either...

I don't think even the Swarmlord could bend him over as efficiently as a unit of THSS Termies. Remember, he can potentially force-weapon the Swarmlord on the first round. Plus, a unit of vanilla THSS Termies costs significantly less than Mephiston, and can be effectively delivered via land raider into assault. The Swarmlord costs more than Mephiston, and has to footslog, meaning that Mephiston can just run away.

Incidentally, a vanilla THSS Termie unit will actually be slightly quicker in killing mephiston, causing 2.9 wounds on the first and second round of combat, though Mephiston will take more of them with him than against the Grey Knights. Specifically, he will probably kill 3 Termies before dying, whereas he only killed 1.6 GKTs.

[synack]

Another question.

Can a single Idependent Character join Mephiston?

[synack]

I don't think even the Swarmlord could bend him over as efficiently as a unit of THSS Termies. Remember, he can potentially force-weapon the Swarmlord on the first round. Plus, a unit of vanilla THSS Termies costs significantly less than Mephiston, and can be effectively delivered via land raider into assault. The Swarmlord costs more than Mephiston, and has to footslog, meaning that Mephiston can just run away.

Incidentally, a vanilla THSS Termie unit will actually be slightly quicker in killing mephiston, causing 2.9 wounds on the first and second round of combat, though Mephiston will take more of them with him than against the Grey Knights. Specifically, he will probably kill 3 Termies before dying, whereas he only killed 1.6 GKTs.

If you run the Swarmlord with Lash Guard (which you always should do), then Mephiston won't be striking first. He's gonna be taking lots of wounds, which he has to make a ld check on 3d6 to not be insta killed. Also, to use any of his phsyic powers he's gonna have to do his ld check on 3d6, which makes failing % alot higher, so less chance of Force weapon going off.

Also, if the swarmlord manages to use a physic shooting attack on him, he could potentially be dropped to WS1, making him hit on 5's.

So yeah, I wouldn't run Mephiston at Tyrants and Swarmlords, they will cause problems for him.

[musical-fool]

Moral of the story; Mephiston doesn't like THSS terminators.

Thank you this is what I thought when reading the other thread (the one with all the numbers:o)


Is it me or do the stats for Mephiston make him look like a real mean SoB (not sister of battle (sorry Melissa:D)) and yet in reality and practicality he's fairly duff?

For 250pts would it not be better to go for just an ordinary librarian and save use the extra points elsewhere?

[Dingareth]

Another question.

Can a single Idependent Character join Mephiston?

No. IC's can never join singel model units.

[Nabterayl]

Another question.

Can a single Idependent Character join Mephiston?
No. Page 48: "They [Independent Characters] cannot, however, join ... units that always consist of a single model."

[DarkLink]

If you run the Swarmlord with Lash Guard (which you always should do), then Mephiston won't be striking first. He's gonna be taking lots of wounds, which he has to make a ld check on 3d6 to not be insta killed. Also, to use any of his phsyic powers he's gonna have to do his ld check on 3d6, which makes failing % alot higher, so less chance of Force weapon going off.

Also, if the swarmlord manages to use a physic shooting attack on him, he could potentially be dropped to WS1, making him hit on 5's.

So yeah, I wouldn't run Mephiston at Tyrants and Swarmlords, they will cause problems for him.

Mephiston is an eternal warrior, and is immune to instant death.

Plus, the Swarmlord and three guard cost, what, 460pts? Thats nearly twice as much as Mephiston.

[musical-fool]

So, if I have understood correctly, then neither Mephiston nor the Sanguinor can join a squad/unit?

If the latter cannot, then GW have been v. misleading in their photos for the codex which show the Sanguinor in a squad of Sguards..?

[lobster-overlord]

They show DC Tycho, Meph and the Sang all within coherancy limits of other units, however, you can field models like that on the board if you wish, they just still interact as separate adn are not part of the units. But they arn't showing you battle scenes from actual games. They are showing you posed display pictures that are meant to show off/highlight the models and the army as a whole, not meant to represent actual tactics/playability.

[Necrosis]

Mephiston is an eternal warrior, and is immune to instant death.

Plus, the Swarmlord and three guard cost, what, 460pts? Thats nearly twice as much as Mephiston.

Show where in the rule book/codex it says Mephiston is eternal warrior.

[Eusebius Rex]

Swarmlord is fairly resistant against ol' Mephy. Because of perils and possibly a Deathleaper, you probably won't get Unleash Rage or Sword of Sanguinus and Transfixing Gaze doesn't work on the Swarmlord, who is not an IC. Then you're hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s and the Swarmlord will most likely make it through because of his 4+ invul and 5 wounds. When Swarmlord hits back, he only needs one unsaved wound for an automatic instant death against Mephy due to his Bone Sabres. Mephy has no invul save, isn't eternal warrior and is probably not worth the points.

Here's a question - can a psyker like Mephiston or Epistolatory librarian who can cast multiple psychic abilities per player turn try to cast the same ability more than once? For instance, if you have Sword of Sanguinos, can you try it a 2nd time in the same assault phase if you fail the first time? I can't find anything saying you can't...

[DarkLink]

Show where in the rule book/codex it says Mephiston is eternal warrior.

Oh, hey, what do you know/shrug/.

[synack]

Here's a question - can a psyker like Mephiston or Epistolatory librarian who can cast multiple psychic abilities per player turn try to cast the same ability more than once? For instance, if you have Sword of Sanguinos, can you try it a 2nd time in the same assault phase if you fail the first time? I can't find anything saying you can't...

IIRC you can.