Why do inks do this?

[lobster-overlord]

Hi all,

Here is a pic of my Death Company. The marine on the left is dry and the one on the right is wet. I always have this problem when inking. They look great when wet, and then when it dries, it spreads and fades and makes the whole think look like crap. No matter the color, they do this.

I have this problem with washes too, although not as bad.

Any insight and ways around this would be great.

The base coat is a white primer, followed by GW Bleached Bone spray, then GW Brown Ink.

John M>

http://homepage.mac.com/jwmissal/bloodangels/inks.jpg

[crazyredpraetorian]

Are you deluting the inks? I get pretty consistent results and love the old GW inks.

[Brass Scorpion]

The problem of the pigment pooling on the high areas instead of going down in the recesses of the model is caused by the surface tension of the water. The pigment is fairly low in density and will often stay suspended near the top of the pools instead of sinking. Solutions:

1) A way of changing the viscosity of the suspension and reducing the problem is to mix a little 'Ard Coat (GW gloss varnish) or white glue with the ink.
2) The new Citadel Washes (or Vallejo Washes, Wonder Washes, etc.) are thicker than inks and generally don't cause as many such problems. Ditch the ink and use "washes".
3) Avoid using washes or inks on large flat surfaces as some pigment generally will end up there and leave what look like water stains.
4) Use Minwax for quick "dip and flick" as it tends to go down in recesses very well and stay there and you can push its pigment around more easily since it's not water based. The drawback is you need mineral spirits or such to clean up after using it.

[Tynskel]

Chemistry! Hydrogen bonding-- not a true bond, but quite strong---

did you wash your plastics before painting? simple watered down dish soap, dunk n' rinse. That should help some.

Same with the inks and sometimes washes--- a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny amount of 'jet dry' will break surface tension. water the crap outta it, then add a tiny amount to the ink.

[lobster-overlord]

@crazy, yes, I dilute it. Usually w/ water 50/50.

@brass scorpion, thanks, I have tons of the old inks. I try to use them as I have them sitting around. I actually have some very old Citadel washes (the old flip top hex bottles) and they tend to work OK, but again, they're old. I will look into the Vallejo as I am switching many of my colors over to them as I need to replace them.

I made a wash using some old "Tree Bark" color paint (a choco brown from Warzone's line of paints) and it seems to be working decently, much better than the ink.

Thanks for the info.

John M>

[lobster-overlord]

OK, here's another question I just thought of that I've never read anything about.

What kind of brush should be used as an applicator? I tend to use a "standard" but would a super detail (00) be better so as to be more like a pen line drawing the ink in to the places I want it, rather than slathered (for lack of a better term) on?

John M.

[synack]

Perhaps you're better off Spraying the base coat/primer, then painting on the foundation, rather than spraying it?

[Zombie Combover]

1) A way of changing the viscosity of the suspension and reducing the problem is to mix a little 'Ard Coat (GW gloss varnish) or white glue with the ink.


I've had good results with airbrush flow enhancers too.

[Duke]

OK, here's another question I just thought of that I've never read anything about.

What kind of brush should be used as an applicator? I tend to use a "standard" but would a super detail (00) be better so as to be more like a pen line drawing the ink in to the places I want it, rather than slathered (for lack of a better term) on?

John M.

When I used inks I more "penned" it on. With washes I "slather," it on...

Duke

[isotope99]

I find a key step is to go back whilst it's still wet and soak up any puddles with a dry detail brush, the brush will pick up a lot of the excess ink/wash and you can then wipe and repeat. This reduces the patchy look later on.

[zealotic]

as far as how un-usual your results are, a lot of people get that problem.

look at the 'eavy metal guys, they only use washes on like colored surfaces, and take off any pooling, because that kinda **** happens with almost everything you can use, though you seem to have the worst case of it i've ever seen to be honest.

[addamsfamily36]

With inks, add a bit of washing up liquid seriously its cheap and works wonders with the old inks.

as for washes, i find being liberal with the coat works best. but then again it depends what effect you want to create.

[Lunar Camel]

[QUOTE=lobster-overlord;69876]@crazy, yes, I dilute it. Usually w/ water 50/50.

When using the inks, I dillute with water at about 1:5 or more. The more water the better. Its easier to add/build up the color than have too much.

Adding jet-dry helps break the water tension and the ink will flow better into the crevices. I highly recommed it.

I have no problems with the new washes but they don't have some of the colors as the inks (yellow, magenta, etc).

[synack]

I did my first wash last night and after reading this, I used a 50:50 mix. I had to apply two coats, but the result was pretty good.

So yeah, I suggest dialuting it.

[Phairsto]

Everything these guys have said is good advice. I also would do a couple drybrushes of bleached bone and then bleached bone/white mix after you apply the wash, should help cover up the weird areas, and generally clean up the large flat and raised areas. Then go in for the details.

Good luck, show us some pictures as it comes along!

[TSINI]

Kind of a strange piece of advice, but i'll suggest it anyway, sometimes the washes dry too quickly and leave rings - kind of like watermarks on the surface, this can be avoided by leaving your models to dry in a darkened room (out of direct sunlight) - the slower the wash dries the more even the drying occurs.

I tend to rush my models into another room with the curtains closed once they are washed.

i had horrendous problems with the old inks, which is why i'm having to re-do a lot of my models, my commanders etc were inked and my conscripts were washed. the conscripts look a lot better than my commanders.

inks pool and collect on the higher parts of the models, unlike washes which are much more intelligent and "seek out the crevices" although they still need to be looked after - dragging the heavy areas into the crevices etc to stop the dark blobs showing up on the higher surfaces.

[lobster-overlord]

I just picked up my first pot of the newer washes last night from FLGS. I got Gryphonne Sepia to see how that works. I hate to layer too many paints on my new DC models, but we'll see how this turns out.

I have about 40 Death Company to work with, so I want to get it right on the first squad before moving on to the rest (Apoc formation of DC units)

John M.

[synack]

I just picked up my first pot of the newer washes last night from FLGS. I got Gryphonne Sepia to see how that works. I hate to layer too many paints on my new DC models, but we'll see how this turns out.

I have about 40 Death Company to work with, so I want to get it right on the first squad before moving on to the rest (Apoc formation of DC units)

John M.

If you going to redo, them I suggest cleaning them. You don't have too many layers on there yet, so you should be able to get the paint off pretty easy. From there you can start over and get the full process correct, before you start with the other units.

[lobster-overlord]

a couple of my models in this unit arn't very good, so I'm going to test just layering the wash over what is there already and see if I can make do wthout having to clean them up. I think it will work out, since i'm really only working with light browns and if anything goes wrong, then they're just dirty battle suits.

[Fizyx]

One technique I use when darkening the crevices in my Tau Crisis suits is to use a 8:1 mix of GW paint (I use a 50/50 mix of chaos black and dark flesh) and load it up in a detail brush. Just place the tip of the brush in the crevice and the water tension will literally suck the watered down paint where you want it to be. As long as you don't apply too much (its hard to do that though) the crevices come out nice and darkened without any spots on the surface of the armor. I do the same thing with my fire warriors, I just use a fine detail brush for them. The technique works well with sharp edges as well, you just have to be careful it doesn't run down onto a part of the model you don't want it to be. It provides a nice contrast that is not as sharp as using a pen and much sharper than just washing the model with a citadel wash.

I use that technique on the armor followed by just a one step edge highlight and it turns out great. The Firewarriors are done the same way, but I end up using a plain old basecoat-wash-highlight on the cloth portions of the models. It does take a little time, but the results are great.

[lobster-overlord]

Tau I find very easy to paint. I paint the basecoat on in the darker color and then do the plates/armor in the lighter colors on top. I've had great success with that due to the design of the Tau suits (Crisis and Fire Warrior) but I cannot get anything similar with marines as they arn't as "platey" in their design.

John M.

[joescalise]

Hi all,

Here is a pic of my Death Company. The marine on the left is dry and the one on the right is wet. I always have this problem when inking. They look great when wet, and then when it dries, it spreads and fades and makes the whole think look like crap. No matter the color, they do this.

I have this problem with washes too, although not as bad.

Any insight and ways around this would be great.

The base coat is a white primer, followed by GW Bleached Bone spray, then GW Brown Ink.

John M>


http://homepage.mac.com/jwmissal/.Pictures/bloodangels/inks.jpg

If you had a very small drop of dish soap into your inks and washes it will fix this. Give it a try in a different bottle and see if you like the results ( I know it sounds strange)

[Lord Azaghul]

Just place the tip of the brush in the crevice and the water tension will literally suck the watered down paint where you want it to be. As long as you don't apply too much (its hard to do that though) the crevices come out nice and darkened without any spots on the surface of the armor. .

I tend to keep a 2nd 'dry' brush (non-wet) around to help soak up any excess wash or ink that run beyond the places I want.

[lobster-overlord]

Thanks again to all who have given input and ideas here.

This is my DC guy that I did tonight. This is to the same stage as the other two, built, primed, base coated, and inked. The level of success is much higher.

http://homepage.mac.com/jwmissal/.Pictures/bloodangels/DSCN1858.jpg

What I did differently is this.

I used a fresh model (one of my older DC w/ Jump Pack-converted from swooping hawk wings)
I used the same pot of ink.
I added the water directly into the pot rather than mixing outside, so I increased the volume 100%
I added three large drops of PVA glue from an old (read: VERY old) bottle of Citadel PVA.
I used a reaper fine detail brush (I was using "standard")
I drew in the places I wanted, rather than slather it on
I wicked up the excess, which i normally do, but was much more thorough and patient with it.

I think by using a lot of the tips that you all gave, I was able to acheive what I wanted. Now to go back over it with bone and start drawing out those nice dark areas.

John M.

[synack]

I have a question to ask. Do you ink it like that, so that when you paint and dry brush over it, there's more detail?

Could you post the finished result, or even the stages, so I can get an idea of what you're actually trying to achieve.

The only thing I've used a wash for is to give my Nids skin some texture and lighting, but that goes on top of the paint, not under, which is what it looks like you are doing.

[lobster-overlord]

I am going to wet brush some to clean it up and then dry brush areas in the bones and whites to highlight. Then I will begin the full detailing.

I'll be more than happy to post pictures of these (there's a lot of them).

John M>