what's the best way to field death company

[CrimsonFist1149]

so yeah the name says it all. I want to hear some opinions on the most effective way to field death company

[Tynskel]

Simple:

5 Death Co. Power Weapons Powerfists, Jump Packs
Lemartes
Death Co. Dreadnought w/ Magna Grapple, Blood Talons, and Hv Flamer
All in a:
Stormraven w/ Typhoons, Hurricane Bolters and Plasma Cannons!!

all for a measly 800 Points :)

[addamsfamily36]

I just came back from playing my first game/games with the new blood angels codex, using a staffs models to play test an army (as my current army needs a lot of tlc) anyways was great fun and played the same guy twice. he was using a mech heavy eldar army, dire avengers with bladestorm, walkers, etc etc everything i expected to see and more, and i truly expected to get my *** handed to me on a plate. what happened in turn two.

my death company 8 strong with lemartes and 3 power weapons deep striked onto the battle field scattered directly onto a falcon, roled a 2 on the mishap 475 points gone. so one piece of advice i would give (although it was more my own stupidity/risk taking) is be careful how you deploy them if you tke jump packs. i intended to place them near by locator beacon, but there was nothing they could really get their teeth into aroudn that point on the battle field.

but otherwise i would say if taking them with jump packs u need a few or they will get cut down as people fear them, they draw alot of fire and boy can they take it. as for the rhino option you save alot of points to spend elsewhere or on nice goodies like powerfists on ure DC. so it depends how you play the rest of youre blood angels.:)

[addamsfamily36]

By the way, even though i lost that 475 point unit, i still gave him a run for hsi money, but couldn't quite dish out enough by the end of the game and my baal predator turned up on my last turn lol.

as for the second game well, yeh lets say wasn't pretty for him lol :D

[lobster-overlord]

Away from a C'tan is good. I just tried to Rhino Rush a squad of DC to warriors, but my opponent cracked it like an egg and my unit had to Rage on the C'tan and after the first round of nothing got owned.

Be careful where you drive them... they may get sucked into an opponent they can't fight due to having to move towards the enemy. (The Chaplain doesn't negate it anymore unless I missed it in the entry)

[addamsfamily36]

I think that by putting them in a Rhino you ignore the rage rule whilst they are embarked as their rage doesn't give the rhino rage. once out of the rhino then they have to move to the nearest enemy, but until then you can more freely like a normal rhino.

[lobster-overlord]

yeah, but the rhino was cracked open and they had to get out when it was wrecked....thus he became their nearest enemy.

:-) sucked to be them.

[addamsfamily36]

Ah harsh.

on a interesting note though, death company dreadnaughts are sort of nifty at getting around rage. you have to move towards near enemy in movement phase, but with fleet the choice is yours, as is assault so if you roll good, you can force your dread to go where you want him to go.

[Image]

Remember, fleet is run. If you choose to run, you run towards the closest, visible enemy. Fleet doesn't bypass this.

[addamsfamily36]

Apologies, my bad, just read the section says same for movement phase and if you run in shooting phase, presumed otherwise because when my opponent looked it up today as i had never used a fleet/rage dread before, he said yeh you can choose where to go. He had jsut read the rulebook so i presumed what he told me was the truth.

looking back on it he probably wanted me to charge the unit i wanted to charge for some reason. lol cheeky swine!!

tbh he's not the most honest or sporting player. today he rolled 4 dice to wound and i then reminded him that only two hit, because of his bs being only 3, he then argued that because all 4 of the dice he rolled to wound cme out the same (all 5's) that he didnt need to roll jsut two dice again i was like WHAA!!!

but he refused so i just let it slide and took the saves

[Eusebius Rex]

I've played some8-9 games with DC using jump packs now and still not sure if DC is the way to go at all. My fear of using them with vehicles was that if the ride gets cracked - and it will cause everything will be aimed at it - then they do have to rage where you might not like it plus get shot to ****. So you totally get around that with DoA cause you put them where you want them and if they rage to a nearer enemy, it is probably something you want to kill anyways. They do kill good:)

Problem is, they have a "just shoot me sign" every battle cannon, every Plasma cannon, every lasgun and multi-laser alike are shooting them to ****. so they drop in and take some pretty gruesome casulties. They can totally take it, just make sure you bring 8+ and spread them out, which is good for a multicharge set up anyways.

So, I've been wondering if DC is really all that great when they attract so much fire. Sure, theycan survive it and that is tuff not shooting your other dudes (in this case, my whole army is jump packed) but I am wondering about taking a deep striking LR w/ Assault termies instead or even a big x10 block of Vanguard to complement my other Vanguard who can assault on the deep strike. I like giving my guys either a nice blow'd up tank to get cover saves or a an assault to hide behind the turn they DS. Very hard to do with DC as infernus pistols only ussually mean they don't blow up a vehicle and thier size makes them hard to hide. Libby with 5+ cover save helps, but...

I think Lemartes is over rated. He dies via instant death from big baddies in the assault and shrugs off wounds good enough that it is hard to get the x5 S and A bonus. Plus, I want to attract fire AWAY from my DC, so I bring the Sanguinor - who is a one man termie squad.

My MVPs have consistantly been vanguard vets, actually. They can assault stuff and kill it right away and with an infernus thereafter they can really dish out a lot of damage....

I ain't giving up on DC yet - they have burned through big bugs for me like they are nothing, but keeping them alive pre-assault is tough.

[Angelus Mortifer]

I personally don't think DC are meant to survive in this new Codex, and if anything you want them to be the fire-magnets they always were previously. That was true before but given how much faster we are overall (Rhino chasis, DS, Stormraven etc), they take the flak so that we can hit the lines Turn 2 (or before with a SRaven).

At 1500-1850 I think JP DC eat up too many points that are best spent elsewhere, and I honestly think that DC with JPs need to come in via SRaven or Locator Beacon, or don't take them. Also, if you're mixing in a Vanguard Sq or other "Elite/Heavy Hitting" unit then again, you can probably buff the army in other ways AND retain the control.

Other transports help ignore the Rage, and if you're worried about losing them early or having the transport popped, then they should be driving behind a mech screen - ideally AV13 now that that is really doable. A couple of Baal Preds and a Vindi/Dakka Pred screening advancing Razorbacks of DC and Asst Troops will see them survive a lot better, and give you more choice of where to drop them.

I'm liking the idea of 6 DC (depending on whether you include a standard Chappie or Reclusiarch, points permitting), Fist, Pwr Wpn, in a Razorback with T/L Hvy Flamer - c.215pts. It requires other parts of the army to pop enemy transports in advance, but if anything the focus has to be with synergy with the new dex.

My 2p's worth... :D

[OCdt Mephiston]

Ive had a good time running a larger group (up to 10) of DC with bolters in a Land Raider Crusader with a stripped down chaplain and DC Tycho. Point that at something even semi vulnerable to bolter fire and you will kill it. With relentless, you can unleash a truly horrific amount of fire into the baddies, then assault into them with a pretty decent base 2 attacks. Tycho is mainly there for the dead mans hand and the fact that i love to play him now that he doesnt suck :D

[Tynskel]

Yes, death co are supposed to die.

I am curious if anyone else is have the fun I am having with them-- stormraven, DC Dread and 6 DC (with or without Lemartes). I think they do what they supposed to: Suicide, kill a bunch of stuff. The Dread usually survives to kill something else!

I do agree. In smaller matches, take DC or Vanguard, but not both- just too many points in too few models. Gotta have some balance--- like most codexes, I guess!

[pgarfunkle]

I've thought about occasionally going for a shooty death company in place of the standard assault mob. Sounds like it could be fun and with the addition of Tycho now since as you put it Mephiston "he doesn't suck" anymore.

For the assault type death company though I'm leaning towards 5 or 6 men in a rhino with a power weapon or 2 and a fist or thunder hammer if I can spare the extra 5 points. Skipping the chaplain unless I'm likely to face a horde or large bugs

[DarkLink]

I've thought about occasionally going for a shooty death company in place of the standard assault mob. Sounds like it could be fun and with the addition of Tycho now since as you put it Mephiston "he doesn't suck" anymore.

For the assault type death company though I'm leaning towards 5 or 6 men in a rhino with a power weapon or 2 and a fist or thunder hammer if I can spare the extra 5 points. Skipping the chaplain unless I'm likely to face a horde or large bugs

Something to point out about shooty DC:

Their rapid firing bolters give them the chance to kill high initiative enemies before combat starts, with 2 shots each, hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's.

That's 4 attacks, hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's or 4's. Two of those attacks hit before anything else, denying the enemy the ability to strike back. And fewer attacks count towards combat resolution, which most of the time probably means that the enemy will be more likely to stick around and keep the DC protected from enemy shooting.


On the other hand, normal DC only get fewer wounds in before the assault. Meaning that most of the time, they are more likely to win in the first round of combat (leaving them exposed to enemy shooting), and/or are more likely to take casualties from the enemy counter attacks, because more of the enemy will probably live to hit back.

Just something to keep in mind, though it doesn't always apply.

[lobster-overlord]

Ive had a good time running a larger group (up to 10) of DC with bolters in a Land Raider Crusader with a stripped down chaplain and DC Tycho. Point that at something even semi vulnerable to bolter fire and you will kill it. With relentless, you can unleash a truly horrific amount of fire into the baddies, then assault into them with a pretty decent base 2 attacks. Tycho is mainly there for the dead mans hand and the fact that i love to play him now that he doesnt suck :D

Are you saying that you are running DC Tycho in the same Land Raider with the Chap and the DC? He's not an Independent Character, nor an upgrade to the unit, so if he's in the LR, he's by himself.

[Darkwynn]

Whatever way you can run them under 180 points otherwise they turn into a point sink.

[Tynskel]

Are you saying that you are running DC Tycho in the same Land Raider with the Chap and the DC? He's not an Independent Character, nor an upgrade to the unit, so if he's in the LR, he's by himself.

who's saying he isn't an upgrade character--- it says Death Company in his profile.

[beeny13]

i really want to try to run 9 of them with a fist and two swords, a few infernus pistols, a chappie and a drop pod.
also a dc dread dropping.

both of these units are fierce and can clear or contest objectives, or just tidal wave through a deployment zone. they can cause your opponent to need to focus his entire army's fire on them while your jump pack troops and mephiston close in unharmed.

however this ties up 600 points into non scoring units that you don't directly control that are vulnerable for a turn and aren't all that fast.

[Tynskel]

go one step further!!! Use the Stormraven! Carry them together

They'll hit like a ton of bricks....

They'll hit like a ton of FLYING bricks!!!

[DarkLink]

Plus you can make the stormraven from cardboard for, like $5.

[lobster-overlord]

who's saying he isn't an upgrade character--- it says Death Company in his profile.

Yes, it says Death Company, but that is his name. He is "Death Company Tycho" and as such, his unit type is "unique." As a unit type "unique" model, he needs to have the Independent Character rule to be able to join another unit. The Death Company is unit type "infantry" and the only way for a "unique" to join an "infantry" is by having the IC rule. Thus, Death Company Tycho cannot join a Troops unit Death Company because there is no allowable way for him to join. Regular Tycho has it, so he can join. (now if the two lists were supposed to be added together for DC Tycho, why would Preferred Enemy: Orks be listed in both... one list is replaced by the other, and not added to the other")

If he was an upgrade, he'd be listed differently and it would specify that you pay the points for him and take him as an upgrade to the DC Troop unit (similar to Lemartes). I'll let you take Tycho as a DC upgrade if I can have Meph as an Honor Guard upgrade and run him with a unit too.

Until they Errata or FAQ Tycho, he cannot join any unit, let alone Death Company.

(Trust me, I want to run him in the DC too, but can't by the book)

[Tynskel]

Yes, it says Death Company, but that is his name. He is "Death Company Tycho" and as such, his unit type is "unique." As a unit type "unique" model, he needs to have the Independent Character rule to be able to join another unit. The Death Company is unit type "infantry" and the only way for a "unique" to join an "infantry" is by having the IC rule. Thus, Death Company Tycho cannot join a Troops unit Death Company because there is no allowable way for him to join. Regular Tycho has it, so he can join. (now if the two lists were supposed to be added together for DC Tycho, why would Preferred Enemy: Orks be listed in both... one list is replaced by the other, and not added to the other")

If he was an upgrade, he'd be listed differently and it would specify that you pay the points for him and take him as an upgrade to the DC Troop unit (similar to Lemartes). I'll let you take Tycho as a DC upgrade if I can have Meph as an Honor Guard upgrade and run him with a unit too.

Until they Errata or FAQ Tycho, he cannot join any unit, let alone Death Company.

(Trust me, I want to run him in the DC too, but can't by the book)



The problem is that he cannot be listed under the Death Company description, because he's an HQ. However, it does say he's inducted into the Death Company.

It is pretty easy to understand why he doesn't have independent character- because he is not supposed to leave death company.

Unique is so you cannot take more than one of him (all special characters have this rule).

Also note: "Black Rage- The Death Company are subject to the Rage universal special rule. Furthermore, the Death Company never count as scoring unit." p. 44

His special Rules, where his title comes from, addresses death company. Tycho has Black Rage, and this rule applies only to death company.

[lobster-overlord]

Again, not an "obvious" type of thing. Ok, he has Black Rage. Which will counter any instance where he might get the rule from a mission that states "HQ count as scoring" Having Black Rage would mean that he then would not be scoring even if the mission allowed it. Black Rage does not = "you are a part of the DC unit"

To say he doesn't have IC so he can't leave death company does not imply that it means he is a part of the Death Company. For him to be a part of the Death Company, it would have to say some where that when you chose to field DC Tycho, he must be included as a part of the Death Company unit if one is being fielded. No where does it explicitly say he is to be included in the DC. You can infer all you want that by having these rules means he is to be included in your DC unit, but the book does not say he does, thus he doesn't.

And to say Black Rage "only applies to death company" would also be false. Black Rage only applies to those units in the book that specify that they have it. There are two units. Death Company and Tycho (Death Company version). There is nothing implicit in them both having it that joins them as one unit. It just means that he has the same rules applied to him as does the Death Company. By this logic, any unit with any special rule the same as any other unit can then be joined together. I'm going to field all units with the Combat Squad special rule as one unit. Thus I'm going to field 10 squads of marines as one and have one 100 man unit. See how flawed that thinking is? The Black Rage rule would have to specify that anyone with this rule is a part of the main DC unit for that to be true.

There is no rule that specifies the definition of the word "inducted" in the codex, nor BRB, so using that term as to mean "he is included in the main DC unit" would be grasping at defining rules that don't exist.

[lobster-overlord]

Additionally, if having Black Rage means you fight as part of the Death Company, then Astorath is pointless to allow for multiple units of DC, as all units of DC he allows for would have to be fielded together as one unit. That being the case, than any picture in the BA codex showing Astorath and multiple units of Death Company out of coherancy with each other is not a legal army to be built using the codex. It would just unlock an increase in the unit size from 30 to 180 Death Company models.

[Tynskel]

That does not make translational sense.

Astorath removes the 0-1 limit. The Black Rage rule only applies to Death Company--- how does the black rage rule restrict the number of death company? The black rage rule is not a causal relationship to the number of death company allowed on the board. The direct causal relationship is in the Death Company points portion where it says you can only have one Death Company, and Astorath removes that limit.

For Tycho, this means he can only be in the one death company, or, in the case of Astorath, he can be apart of any death company, or by himself.

[Tynskel]

Again, not an "obvious" type of thing. Ok, he has Black Rage. Which will counter any instance where he might get the rule from a mission that states "HQ count as scoring" Having Black Rage would mean that he then would not be scoring even if the mission allowed it. Black Rage does not = "you are a part of the DC unit"

To say he doesn't have IC so he can't leave death company does not imply that it means he is a part of the Death Company. For him to be a part of the Death Company, it would have to say some where that when you chose to field DC Tycho, he must be included as a part of the Death Company unit if one is being fielded. No where does it explicitly say he is to be included in the DC. You can infer all you want that by having these rules means he is to be included in your DC unit, but the book does not say he does, thus he doesn't.

And to say Black Rage "only applies to death company" would also be false. Black Rage only applies to those units in the book that specify that they have it. There are two units. Death Company and Tycho (Death Company version). There is nothing implicit in them both having it that joins them as one unit. It just means that he has the same rules applied to him as does the Death Company. By this logic, any unit with any special rule the same as any other unit can then be joined together. I'm going to field all units with the Combat Squad special rule as one unit. Thus I'm going to field 10 squads of marines as one and have one 100 man unit. See how flawed that thinking is? The Black Rage rule would have to specify that anyone with this rule is a part of the main DC unit for that to be true.

There is no rule that specifies the definition of the word "inducted" in the codex, nor BRB, so using that term as to mean "he is included in the main DC unit" would be grasping at defining rules that don't exist.


Once again, you are making a causal relationship between having combat squads and joining all units with combat squads together--- the Special Rule Combat Squads does not specifically mention a particular unit--- The Black Rage specifically mentions Death Company. Second- combat squads does not allow units to join each other, in fact, the rule specifically allows "units with this special rule that include ten squad members breaking down into two five-man units." p. 23 C:BA

This is flawed logic, and makes a very poor counter argument to my Black Rage argument.

[lobster-overlord]

I'm pointing out how flawed the idea was. Either way, it's just not going to work. I know it was a bad example, but it was meant to be.

Tycho is an unit of one. He can't join another unit just because he has the same special rule.

[Tynskel]

The flawed idea only works if you can show that it is flawed-- using a poor example doesn't help your cause.

Not citing anything to back up your current statement doesn't help, either.

[DarkLink]

After reading Tycho's profile, I must have completely missed anything that would even imply that he must be part of a unit of death company on the tabletop. Apparently Tynskel's managed to find it, though, and it's so obvious that no one is allowed to disagree with him. Guess I'll have to go back and reread it.

[lobster-overlord]

Tynskel, you're saying that because they share a special rule (Black Rage) that is enough to show that they are part of the same unit because they are the only ones that have it.

My example was then that by your logic, all units with "Combat tactics" are thereby able to form one unit since they share a common special rule. My example is a completely insane application of the same logic you show with the DC. There is nothing that links Tycho to the Death Company other than shared rules and shared name.

John M>

[Tynskel]

Tynskel, you're saying that because they share a special rule (Black Rage) that is enough to show that they are part of the same unit because they are the only ones that have it.

My example was then that by your logic, all units with "Combat tactics" are thereby able to form one unit since they share a common special rule. My example is a completely insane application of the same logic you show with the DC. There is nothing that links Tycho to the Death Company other than shared rules and shared name.

John M>

Read the wording of the special rules-- the Black Rage is explicit---Only Death Company have the rule (p. 44)

Combat Tactics is another poor example, because combat tactics, like your Combat Squads suggestion, does not name a specific unit in the rule!

Once again, you are making a causal relationship that does not exist. Try Again.


As for Dark Link--- you better go read it again--- and if you find something conflicting-- bring it forward--- but please don't bring half-@$$ arguments.

[Eusebius Rex]

Yeah, I think it is stacking up against DC Tycho being an actual component of the DC.

1. He's still in a HQ FoC slot
2. Doesn't have IC. This is just like Mepheston and The Sanginweiner' - which are just Special Character single model units more or less.
3. Clearly not marked nor noted as an upgrade character - otherwise, we'd see him in the troops section with Lemertes
4. "Death Company Tycho" is just the unit name. It doesn't pull him out of the HQ FoC slot and dump him into a Troop slot just because it has "Death Company" in it.
5. Black Rage is a special rule that applies to any unit that uses it, but in no way infers that any unit with it are in the same FoC slot - it just means the rule also applies to him

There is only one reason I can see considering DC Tycho part of the proper DC - because I want him to.

Sucks, but there is it. No vagueness like the use of the word "Random" used in the Sanguinor's Blessing special rule.

MOST importantly - giving up IC is a great trade off for Tycho. He gains so much pure killin hate that he is really a 175pt 3 man DC in and of himself - really comparable to Mephy and The Sanguinor in powers when taking into account his 2+/4+/FnP fleet,power weapon, special ammo ect.... I'm going to give him a go by himself

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I'll humor you.

All I see is that, in the fluff, Tycho is a member of the death company. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

I also see, in every single other case of an upgrade character in the entire game, a rule in their profile stating "x character may be taken as an upgrade to x unit". This includes Lemartes, in the very same BA codex. Specifically, it states "The Death Company can include Lemartes."

So, I went back and checked Tycho's profile. I didn't see "The Death Company can include Death Company Tycho" anywhere.

Now, based on seeing your past arguments, I'm sure you'll just dismiss what I'm saying, because I didn't find a rule that explicitly states that Tycho isn't a member of the death company. Which is a logical fallacy on your part, by the way. But I digress.

You have interpreted the Black Rage rule to mean that Tycho is a part of the Death Company unit. I disagree.

The only possible way to think that Tycho is in the death company, is that the Black Rage rule states that "the Death Company are subject to...", of which it appears you have assumed the following;
a) because the rule specifically mentions "the Death Company", the only unit that can possibly have it is the Death Company
b) because Tycho has it, he must be a member of the Death Company, due to a.

Does that summarize your argument?

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Ultimately, I see no reason why (a) must be true. I've seen plenty of other units that say "x unit has these rules", without forcing other units to be part of their unit, even when that other unit says "refer to x unit for this rule". At the same time, as mentioned before, every single other upgrade character in the entire game explicit states that they are an upgrade character in their profile. In fact, within the entire game of 40k, I have never seen a single unit that I can think of, especially in the new codices, that gives you purchasing options outside of the unit profile. Sure, there's stuff like "model may purchase wargear from the wargear section" and such, but never have I seen a unit profile that did not explicitly give the unit upgrade options in a clear format. If only for this, your connection is a very, very tedious one at best.

Combine this with the fact that it nowhere states that Tycho is purchased as an upgrade character for the Death Company, I find your argument on very tedious ground.

Perhaps Tycho was intended to be an upgrade character. Maybe. We really don't know what the designers intended. But I do not find your argument the least bit convincing.

Now, I won't add any more to this argument unless you come up with a better one yourself. Which, if you do, I will actually bother to read rather than dismiss offhand as you seem to do on a regular basis, and not just in this thread, mind you. Dismissing other's arguments on a claimed basis of lack of evidence seems to be a common theme in your posts. Until then, however, enjoy your pipe dream:p. I'll be spinning around on my tall-backed office chair stroking a white Persian cat while laughing maniacally.

[Tynskel]

Actually, you look at Tycho- he isn't that killy and he's very vulnerable to instant death if you have him run by himself. Also, you can't control him, unless you use some crazy crazy block line of site method--- which you would want to do, anyhow, with instant death problem. He can't even be transported- you can't get him into a transport, except for the stormraven, unless he's part of Death Company. Yeah, he kills things, but not anything better than a captain could. You could give a bike, power weapon and thunder hammer, he costs about the same (180), but now he's much faster, can go where you want him to, and can shoot, slice, and smash just about anything.

Really, what is the point of Death Company Tycho?

Now, if you were to place him in a Death Company Squad- he becomes the killing machine he's supposed to be with those special rules.

[Tynskel]

it isn't that they share the same special rule--- it is that the rule specifically states Death Company. I am not aware of a rule, other than Codex Blood Angels, that states the specific name of a unit, and has a special character with the same name as the special unit, which has the special rule that states the special name of the special unit.

[Tynskel]

Yeah, I'll humor you.

All I see is that, in the fluff, Tycho is a member of the death company. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

I also see, in every single other case of an upgrade character in the entire game, a rule in their profile stating "x character may be taken as an upgrade to x unit". This includes Lemartes, in the very same BA codex. Specifically, it states "The Death Company can include Lemartes."

So, I went back and checked Tycho's profile. I didn't see "The Death Company can include Death Company Tycho" anywhere.

Now, based on seeing your past arguments, I'm sure you'll just dismiss what I'm saying, because I didn't find a rule that explicitly states that Tycho isn't a member of the death company. Which is a logical fallacy on your part, by the way. But I digress.

You have interpreted the Black Rage rule to mean that Tycho is a part of the Death Company unit. I disagree.

The only possible way to think that Tycho is in the death company, is that the Black Rage rule states that "the Death Company are subject to...", of which it appears you have assumed the following;
a) because the rule specifically mentions "the Death Company", the only unit that can possibly have it is the Death Company
b) because Tycho has it, he must be a member of the Death Company, due to a.

Does that summarize your argument?

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Ultimately, I see no reason why (a) must be true. I've seen plenty of other units that say "x unit has these rules", without forcing other units to be part of their unit, even when that other unit says "refer to x unit for this rule". At the same time, as mentioned before, every single other upgrade character in the entire game explicit states that they are an upgrade character in their profile. In fact, within the entire game of 40k, I have never seen a single unit that I can think of, especially in the new codices, that gives you purchasing options outside of the unit profile. Sure, there's stuff like "model may purchase wargear from the wargear section" and such, but never have I seen a unit profile that did not explicitly give the unit upgrade options in a clear format. If only for this, your connection is a very, very tedious one at best.

Combine this with the fact that it nowhere states that Tycho is purchased as an upgrade character for the Death Company, I find your argument on very tedious ground.

Perhaps Tycho was intended to be an upgrade character. Maybe. We really don't know what the designers intended. But I do not find your argument the least bit convincing.

Now, I won't add any more to this argument unless you come up with a better one yourself. Which, if you do, I will actually bother to read rather than dismiss offhand as you seem to do on a regular basis, and not just in this thread, mind you. Dismissing other's arguments on a claimed basis of lack of evidence seems to be a common theme in your posts. Until then, however, enjoy your pipe dream:p. I'll be spinning around on my tall-backed office chair stroking a white Persian cat while laughing maniacally.

Name one unit that has stated 'x has these rules' and then says 'y has x' rules, and all the fluff also states that 'y is a member of x' that isn't in the same force org chart.

I betchya, you WILL NOT find that.

[Mycroft Holmes]

so yeah the name says it all. I want to hear some opinions on the most effective way to field death company

I plan on running 8-10, mounted in a LandRaider Crusaider.
1 with Power Fist and bolter.
3 with Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol.
4-6 with Bolters.
Chaplain.


Crusader: So they have an extremely tough vehicle to get them where they need to be, with out worring about Rage
Power Fist + Bolter: PF don't get +1 attack and he can RapidFire and still assault because of Relentless
Power Weapon + Bolt Pistol: all for the +1 attack and getting the most out of the Furious Charge
Bolters: Rapid Fire before assault. Doesn't get to be str 5 but it's the equivalent of Int 11
Chaplain: Turn those Power Weapons into Lightning Claws.

[BrotherMoses]

I plan on running 9 with 2 thunder hammers and a chaplain in a rhino. This is going to be a hard hitting squad that will dig into the enemy. 2 thunder hammers mean they have a way of dealing with monstrous creatures, dreadnoughts, and anything else silly enough to get in their way. Also, the thunder hammer will mean that anything that survives the shock of the first round will be knocked down to I1 after the charge bonuses wear off. This is a huge advantage over any sort of MC. Rerolling to hit and wound means these guys are going to be putting out a lot of wounds on whatever gets in their way.

All this for 290 pts with transport isn't all that bad.

[DarkLink]

Really, what is the point of Death Company Tycho?

Now, if you were to place him in a Death Company Squad- he becomes the killing machine he's supposed to be with those special rules.

Heh, wouldn't be the first nonsensical thing that GW's done.

[addamsfamily36]

Right this post goes out to Tynskel, darklink, lobster overlord and whoever else might be discussing the captain tycho/death company debate.


I believe i have found the answer:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=8000041a&start=4

The link should lead to a "how to a character focus article by GW". It's on captain tycho and heres the key paragraph:


On the Tabletop

Captain Tycho can be included in your army as a HQ choice, representing either him as Captain of the 3rd Company or as part of the Death Company. He is a great character in either guise, with a potent statline and some great special rules.

To me this read that he is part of the death company even though he is not an upgrade under the death company unit options.

he still classifies as a HQ choice but loses independent character rule, which ties in with the fluff that once inducted into the death company you don't leave it until death takes you.

[lobster-overlord]

Now, I do agree with that this interpretation from the GW site does lead one to believe that he would be included as a part of a unit of DC, however, again back to the original point, there is nothing that says he is to be deployed and/or included as a part of the DC unit in the actual game out side of interpretation and fluffiness.

Thanks for linking that info addamsfamily.

[addamsfamily36]

my pleasure

[DarkLink]

Possibly. Though whether or not Death Company Tycho is a part of the death company unit, he would still be "part of the death company" fluff-wise, so that in and of itself isn't clear.

Having him as part of the death company unit would certainly make him better.

GW just needs to hire PP do write their rules. Then we'd never have these problems.

[Jose Perez]

Page 41 blood angels codex
quote "Tycho at last succumbed to the black rage and took his place in the death company end quot. he can't lead the DC because chaplains must do so all have Ld 10. Furthermore DC Tycho Ld 8. I think it's should end the confusion as to "IF" Tycho can join the Death Company. The question should be can he leave the Death Company? Answer - NOPE.